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Debate Score:2
Arguments:5
Total Votes:2
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loopynutter(67) pic



The very existence of existence itself is a paradox

Agree

Side Score: 1
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Disagree

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1 point

Can you explain why you are asking this? I assume you have some reason to think it is a paradox?

Side: Disagree
loopynutter(67) Disputed
1 point

@Mack

Isn't it obvious? An effect needs a cause but when you backtrack all the way back to the first effect that was caused that caused existence itself to exist there is nothing that could exist before existence to cause existence therefore the universe is effectually a causal paradox

Side: Agree
Mack(534) Clarified
2 points

Thank you for clarifying, I just thought you could mean there was a paradox in some other way.

With regards to your argument I will say this:

Firstly, there must be some loophole in what you've said, because of course the universe does somehow exist (at least it seems reasonable to believe the universe does exist, though some might disagree). I don't think paradoxes (at least of this sort) can actually exist in reality, by their very definition. The task is now to find the loophole.

Well there are some possible answers:

-Many people believe in some sort of un-caused first cause, like a God (I never know when I should use a capital 'G,' but certain members of this site will freak if I don't). This would be a supernatural being, so they wouldn't necessarily be bound by natural laws like cause and effect (which I think seems to be a natural law rather than a logical law).

-Physics around the Big Bang gets really weird, and we simply can't trust our intuition about the nature of cause and effect and time and all those things when it comes to that. For example, I don't think it makes sense to say "before existence." Given the weirdness it makes sense to withhold judgment, even if you're an expert in the subject.

-Closed time loops are another idea, but I think they seem a bit 'ad hoc,' i.e. goofy and just made up to get out of a tight spot.

-I think there are other explanations, but I don't recall them at the moment.

Side: Agree