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42
53
They must Other
Debate Score:95
Arguments:95
Total Votes:98
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 They must (41)
 
 Other (46)

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Transgender toilet use: US schools 'must respect gender identity'

Attorney General Loretta Lynch said schools that don't comply may face lawsuits or lose federal aid if they do not comply.

One senior Republican politician has condemned the move as the "beginning of the end" of the current school system.

In a separate move, the president also strengthened protections for LGBT people receiving health care.

The federal government is fighting the state of North Carolina in court over a law requiring people to use toilets according to their gender at birth.

However the Obama administration education and justice departments say public schools must respect transgender pupils' gender identity even if their education records or identity documents indicate a different sex.

"There is no room in our schools for discrimination of any kind, including discrimination against transgender students on the basis of their sex," Ms Lynch said.


Read more: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-36286111

They must

Side Score: 42
VS.

Other

Side Score: 53
2 points

Equal protection clause, 14th Amendment, US Constitution.

I love how scared people are about where other people take a piss. Like, they literally believe that someone taking a dump where they don't want them to is going to bring the whole federal school system to its knees. And they don't think they sound absolutely paranoid and delusional when they say that. Too bad they can't get this worked up over the chronic under-funding of schools, which actually is destroying public education.

Side: They must
foratag(186) Disputed
2 points

The USA is 5th per student behind only Austria, Luxembourg, Switzerland, and Norway on the planet. I guess in your eyes if we are not number one then we are woefully underfunded. Those nations also are nowhere near the USA per GDP in military spending, two of which are NATO members. I suppose you would like to see the USA slash military funding and divert the money to education, would you not? Or raise taxes on the struggling middle class to make up the difference. Guess what, people can't afford to give more of their hard earned money to the government for education.

Further, if the USA would ship out all the kids here illegally then there would be more money per student on American kids, getting the number closer to what the top 4 spend per student. Those four countries do not have nearly the illegal alien problems that we face here in the USA. Not to mention that they are small population wise.

The Supreme Court has stated that the right to privacy is a constitutional right. Once a case makes it up to the Supreme Court on transgender vs women's privacy rights regarding restrooms and locker rooms it most certainly will go in favor of girls not having to be forced to change in front of a guy with a cock in the locker room.

I hate to tell you this but the American public is overwhelmingly opposed to a guy declaring he identifies as a woman and walking in on a seven year old girl changing. You may be ready for it, but the rest of us are not.

Obama did state that all a person has to do is openly declare which gender they prefer and that is good enough.

Side: Other
Jace(4324) Disputed
1 point

The USA is 5th per student behind only Austria, Luxembourg, Switzerland, and Norway on the planet. I guess in your eyes if we are not number one then we are woefully underfunded. Those nations also are nowhere near the USA per GDP in military spending, two of which are NATO members. I suppose you would like to see the USA slash military funding and divert the money to education, would you not? Or raise taxes on the struggling middle class to make up the difference. Guess what, people can't afford to give more of their hard earned money to the government for education.

No idea where you're pulling that figure from, but the US has consistently ranked lower than fifth (1) (2) (3). Given that the US has the largest world economy by a substantial margin, there's no reason it should be behind any other nations in education (whether that be four or twenty). That suggests that we are managing our resources ineffectively. Notably, US spending relative to GDP is lower than Austria, Switzerland, and Norway (could not find the data on Luxembourg), as well as other nations we lag behind in achievement (4).

I do not think that funding is the sole or even primary variable behind stagnate educational performance, but I think it is a variable unlike where students happen to piss (you might ask yourself why you aren't as critical of that claim). I do favor reduced federal military spending, but that is because I support reduced federal expenditure across the budget including for education. I'm an anti-federalist, and think that if less personal income were sent to a federal bureaucracy that states could then manage their own educational programs better with their own resources with minimal intervention by federal authority. I think this would result in more effectively funded education at lower expense to taxpayers, without even needing to touch other department budgets. It would also reduce federal influence over other variables that contribute to the problem, by reducing its coercive financial power over states.

Further, if the USA would ship out all the kids here illegally then there would be more money per student on American kids, getting the number closer to what the top 4 spend per student. Those four countries do not have nearly the illegal alien problems that we face here in the USA. Not to mention that they are small population wise.

Illegal immigrants make up about 3.8% of the overall US population (5), and only a fraction of that would be students. So, spending per (legally residing) student would probably increase even with the loss of tax revenue paid by some illegal immigrants... but that difference would be pretty marginal. The tendency to blame illegal immigrants for the broader shortcomings of US federal and state policies seems generally unfounded to me. If the nation can really be that unsettled by such a small proportion of people then it's gone critically wrong elsewhere. Immigration is a serious issue, but when it gets brought into other issues as the cure all it's usually a red herring to distract people from that other issue and its own independent and equally real problems.

The Supreme Court has stated that the right to privacy is a constitutional right. Once a case makes it up to the Supreme Court on transgender vs women's privacy rights regarding restrooms and locker rooms it most certainly will go in favor of girls not having to be forced to change in front of a guy with a cock in the locker room.

The competing rights claim under the 14th amendment has a strong precedent backing it, whereas a right to privacy in public restrooms rights claim does not. Were the judiciary to uphold the latter in this context it would involve an unprecedentedly broad construal of privacy that would necessitate equally absurd mandates for either single stall restrooms or floor-to-ceiling cubicles to prevent anyone seeing you (and once they do that, the issue is moot since no one could see anyone). Lower level courts have also found in favor of transgender students in public schools already (e.g. 6), so there is even less cause to suppose that the Supreme Court must necessarily rule as you predict (if they even deign to address an issue this trivial).

I hate to tell you this but the American public is overwhelmingly opposed to a guy declaring he identifies as a woman and walking in on a seven year old girl changing. You may be ready for it, but the rest of us are not.

Majoritarian conservatism has been opposed to many things throughout history, but on civil rights issues in particular it has consistently lost its sway as the political influence of older generations phased out. Not only is opposition not as great as you represent it, but it's weaker among younger demographics (7). At any rate, public opinion does not alter my original observation which was that this issue isn't going to destroy public education.

Obama did state that all a person has to do is openly declare which gender they prefer and that is good enough.

Yes. And that doesn't change laws about voyeurism, exhibitionism, assault, etc. Literally just means a person can walk into a place. Doesn't give them permission to do anything towards any other person. But, yes, let's all panic and proclaim the end of public education... like that's reasonable.

Side: They must
daver(1675) Disputed
1 point

I would be surprised to learn that you have children, perhaps even girls, in public schools. Do you recall the urges you experienced as an adolescent?

Do you really imagine that an already socially screwed up teenager will actually draw attention to themselves by walking into a bathroom belonging to the other gender? Really!😕

Side: Other
Jace(4324) Disputed
1 point

Do you really imagine that any policy is going to prevent any screwed up person from seeking attention? Of course not. Plus, the more neutral restrooms are the less rebellious that sort of thing is (so you should support neutrality!). Besides, if someone does something to actually harm others, like assault, then that action can still be addressed.

Side: They must
2 points

Can you imagine any elementary school kids being mature enough to know anything about who they are or what sex they are suppose to be?

What kind of parents would allow their children to have a lifetime of taking dangerous drugs and sex change operations, on the say so of immature kids who know nothing of who they are.

Take a look at this site to educate yourself on statistics concerning transgenders after sex change operations.

http://www.sexchangeregret.com/

IT'S A CHILD!!!!!!! THEY HAVE NO CLUE OF LIFE OR ANYTHING ABOUT THEMSELVES!

This is just one of MANY ISSUES that shows the extremism of Progressives and their total lack of common sense when it comes to human biology.

Like i have said many times, there is no explaining the fanatical Progressive fixation on LGBT issues other than it is a war against Christianity in this nation.

We truly have been, and currently are, in a cultural war for the soul of this nation.

Even our national magazines have been pressured to push the Left's LGBT agendas.

These Progressives are boycotting States such as North Caroina, if they don't cave into Big Brother's political correct extremism concerning forcing states to allow boys in girls bathrooms. They censored the All Star Basketball game from North Carolina for not towing Big Brother's LGBT dictates.

SICK! The Left has lost all semblance of common sense and wisdom.

Every American in this nation deserves respect, but that does not mean they deserve having their agendas forced on us all. If you want to be respected, stop forcing your beliefs of how our State's and public schools must conduct their laws and policies.

Side: Other
1 point

So what about high school?

Side: Other
FromWithin(4301) Clarified
1 point

Ask yourself why we have age limits for drinking, age limits for getting a driver's license, age limits for marriage, age limits for many mant things.

Why do you suppose that is?

OBVIOULSY, we all know that children ad teenagers are NOT mature enough or responsible enough to handle many things in life.

Why on Earth would any thinking person believe they possess the maturity to understand any inward feelings they might have concerning their biological gender, and who they are?

Side: They must
1 point

I agree with you................................................................................................

Side: Other
Jace(4324) Disputed
1 point

Just to clarify... you agree with from FromWithin?

Side: They must
Jace(4324) Disputed
0 points

If you sincerely believe that children are incapable of determining their own gender identity, then you should support hormone suppression as a general policy towards all children until they reach an age where they can. Otherwise, we are permitting them to grow into bodies they may regret having chosen to have by not seeking hormone suppression.

Your persecution complex is absurd. You live in a majority Christian nation where Christian organizations enjoy unique federal benefits, such as tax exemption. There are places in this world where Christians are actually being persecuted, where their faith is outlawed and open practice gets them killed. Whining like a petulant child about how attacked you are because some people want to use a different toilet makes you look petty and insensitive to the very real violence those Christians are facing.

This "war" is all in your head. You're working yourself up over nothing. If you made others' identities and personal choices less about you, then you might feel less assaulted. You're the one trying to legislate where other people can take a piss, and you think you're the one being forced to live your life a certain way. No one is making you piss in public facilities, so if you don't like that the whole public gets equal legal access to what they also paid for then you can go find a private toilet and take your shit there.

Side: They must
Sitar(2844) Disputed
1 point

Children do not have the right to TRY and change their sex.

Side: Other
FromWithin(4301) Disputed
1 point

Wow, talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

It's the liberal left and the LGBT activists living in a CONSTANT STATE OF PERSECUTION COMPLEX.

Do you even listen to the words you are writing?

For the past 50 years, the Progressive left has been spending every waking minute trying to censor any mention of our Christian heritage off public lands!

You are the insecure extremists who will force all Americans to bow to your political correct fixation, and have been doing so in the courts non stop for decades.

Spew you total lies and deceptions to someone who lacks a brain to think with.

If you truly believe your lifestyle is normal, then be secure enough to not care what other's think about it. Stop trying to force everyone else to believe that LGBT lifestyles are normal.

Do you think Christians spend one waking second having insecure feelings about what people think of our beliefs? They don't! We are secure with who we are and what we believe. We don't try to force you to be Christians. Be anything you want, just don't try and censor our historical Christian heritage just because it does not agree with you.

We all took biology and know the facts.

Side: Other
2 points

I think Trump and his Department of Education leader is the end of the current school system.(She's tried for years!)! I might point out that I can't imagine a transgender person using a urinal. They'll be inside a stall, and unless you look under it or through the crack in the door, you won't likely see any difference. Those that do THAT would make me worry about my kids more than the TGP. THEY are FAR more likely to try to "stay under the radar"! Get REAL!

Side: Other
1 point

"Transgender toilet use: US schools 'must respect gender identity' "

Is this country run under a Dicktator ?

Side: Other
2 points

It is now.

Side: Other
outlaw60(6877) Disputed
1 point

Antarctica, the southernmost continent and site of the South Pole, is a virtually uninhabited, ice-covered landmass.

Are you the only inhabitant in Antarctica ? Where do you cast your vote for the Dicktator of your choosing ? Are there many transgender issues in the ice covered landmass that you inhabit ?

Side: They must
AlofRI(1253) Clarified
1 point

No. It's not inauguration day yet. But, it's coming. (WAY to fast!) Trump is "Putin by Proxy". Congratulations, you may have done to this country what the Nazi's and Axis powers could not do ... without firing a shot! Wonder what the NRA thinks of that???

Side: They must

Must respect???? Then you, Loretta, must respect our right to disagree lest you be a bigot.

Side: Other
Jace(4324) Disputed
1 point

No one is saying you cannot disagree. They are merely saying that your belief does not give you legal grounds under US jurisdiction to control where others go in publicly funded spaces. That's not bigoted. That's the 14th Amendment.

Side: They must
2 points

Only that you get called bigoted, homophobe, Islamaphobe, racist etc. when you dissent. However, that just means they (the left) don't have the mental capacity to make an argument or accept the fact that others have a different viewpoint.

Additionally, no one is being denied a "right" they can still use the bathroom, the one designated for their gender.

Side: Other
Amarel(1207) Clarified
1 point

Aren't they still controlling where people go; but based on how they identify rather than how others identify them?

Side: They must
outlaw60(6877) Disputed
1 point

Amendment XIV

Section 1.

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Section 2.

Representatives shall be apportioned among the several states according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each state, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the executive and judicial officers of a state, or the members of the legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such state, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such state.

Section 3.

No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any state, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any state legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any state, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

Section 4.

The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any state shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

Section 5.

The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.

No transgender bathrooms mentioned above is there ?

Side: Other
1 point

Agreeing to the principle of transgender toilets raises the question of transgender changing rooms.

If a transgender feels uncomfortable using the 'conveniences' for the gender of their birth then they should feel even more distressed in the changing rooms in which they feel out of place.

Side: Other
Jace(4324) Disputed
1 point

Your point being what, exactly?

Side: They must
1 point

There is no trangender. You can't change your genetic code................................

Side: Other
Jace(4324) Disputed
1 point

There is no homosexual. You can't change your genetic code......................

Side: They must
Sitar(2844) Clarified
1 point

Yep, you're trolling........................................................................................

Side: They must
1 point

It's a load of absolute bollocks who is stopping them at the moment from using a toilet are there toilet police in the states ?

You want to piss go fucking piss what or who is stopping you ? watch the lawsuits go into the billions over the years as this PC bollocks becomes the norm ; wonder what the Trumpster thinks of it ?

Side: Other
alto(115) Banned
1 point

Absolutely appalling. You are what you are. You are either born male or born female and that is what God made you. And you do not have the right to go into the bathroom of the opposite gender. That is just perverted. It is so sad to see what the world is coming to. How soon will it be until perverted acts like bestiality and pedophilia is accepted and those who are rightfully disgusted by them are called bigots. Being transgender is clearly unnatural and perverted. It gives me hope that Jesus will soon return and all this disgusting liberal nonsense is wiped away.

Side: Other
Lopilulu(287) Disputed
1 point

Get the fuck off my debate.

Side: They must