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Debate Score:38
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 Truth is subjective, Accuracy is not? (35)

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ProLogos(2798) pic



Truth is subjective, Accuracy is not?

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There is no such thing as an ''absolute truth''. But then if that was true the statement itself would be an ''absolute truth''. By definition accuracy has conform to the correct value or a standard and is therefore objective.

1 point

What is an absolute truth?

And how can you know that it doesn't exist?

1 point

Something which is absolutely and unequivocally true in every regard. But, try this, stretch your mental ability to it's absolute limits and read the second sentence which contradicts the first assertion.

My truth in not only accurate, but universally accepted as well.

Thank you.

1 point

Isn't "my truth" contradictory? In that "my" indicates based on personal feelings and "truth" is defined as based on fact , which based on fact is the definition of objectivity. Something can not be both subjective and objective.

What is your reason for saying this. Have you an explanation?

HighFalutin(2833) Clarified
3 points

No, because my truth is your truth and that's a fact... and accurate.

Your welcome.

Truth is objective, accuracy is conditional.

1 point

How is truth objective and what do you mean by "accuracy is conditional"?

dadman(1654) Banned
1 point

Man's "truth" is subjective ie: you've got your "truth" / I've got mine etc etc ........

God's truth is Objective ... (anything that contradicts it is false)

Thy Word is truth / Jesus: I am THE way / THE truth and THE life

Atrag(5448) Disputed
2 points

It is a shame then that God refuses to talk to us these days then. All we have are some anicent texts that we know have been changed many times by man.

AveSatanas(4415) Disputed
1 point

Prove that this objective standard exists. .

1 point

Reason for Banning the dadman

I don't like you.

Cynical(1946) Disputed Banned
1 point

Then go find an echo chamber or hugbox to play in.

Truth is not aubjective. Accuracy can be. .

1 point

Why isn't truth subjective? How can accuracy be subjective?

AveSatanas(4415) Disputed
1 point

Because something is either true or it isnt. 2 plus 2 is 4. Fact. Truth. There is no, "well 2 plus 2 is 5 for me but 2 plus 2 is 4 for you". No, there is no my truth and your truth. There is just truth.

Accuracy is different because different people can consider things to be accurate. Accurate is an approximate measurement.

For instance, if im throwing darts at a dartboard and i get it within 5 inches of the bullseye i would think that was pretty accurate. But a pro dart player may only consider being within 1 inch of the bullseye as accurate. Because he is more skilled at darts his standard for accuracy is much higher than what mine might be as an amateur.

1 point

I think it is important to note that there are truths and then there's The Truth. Small "t" truths are subjective. What may be true for you is not necessarily true for me, and vice versa. But big "T" truth is not subjective. It's an absolute Truth. Just wanted to mention this because a lot of people are going to get confused and assume that truths and The Truth are the same thing when they are not.

1 point

"What may be true to you may not be true to me."

What does this mean? And how do those truths become subjective?

luckin(176) Clarified
1 point

Would you be willing to give an example of a small "t" truth?

1 point

I would say that truth and accuracy are both objective instead of subjective

1 point

Why?

I like to listen to other people's side before I give out mine.

luckin(176) Clarified
1 point

I say objective because there are things that are true regardless of how I feel about it. I would like to be able to fly without the use of machinery but because of my biology, I can't. Accuracy is very similar. I can say something thats totally wrong like humans can turn invisible at will. Thats obviously not true since no human can actually do that

1 point

Let us look at the definition of the word "truth".........

truth

tro͞oTH/Submit

noun

the quality or state of being true.

"he had to accept the truth of her accusation"

synonyms: veracity, truthfulness, verity, sincerity, candor, honesty; More

that which is true or in accordance with fact or reality.

noun: the truth

"tell me the truth"

synonyms: what actually happened, the case, so; More

a fact or belief that is accepted as true.

plural noun: truths

"the emergence of scientific truths"

synonyms: fact, verity, certainty, certitude

(bolding is mine)

So...if we go be the definitions here, especially the bolded part at the end, we can see that if something is indeed Truth--and not just thought to be truth by somebody--then it really IS a fact.

Ergo......Objective and not subjective.

Same deal for the term "accuracy." Since we are talking about something being true to form, or "on-target" or according to known facts or truths.

So in closing, I would have to say that both terms are Objective.

The definition of the word "subjective"...............

sub·jec·tive

səbˈjektiv/Submit

adjective

1.

based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions.

"his views are highly subjective"

synonyms: personal, individual, emotional, instinctive, intuitive

"a subjective analysis"

Here we see it is NOT Objective, but rather based on personal feelings and opinions. Thus, NOT fact (or truth) based.

"Truth" and "accuracy" are fact-based.

So they ARE Objective.

SS

ProLogos(2798) Disputed
1 point

I like pie. This is true.

Me liking pie, is based on personal feelings.

Therefore, me liking pie is a subjective truth.

SlapShot(2607) Disputed
1 point

Wrong.

You like pie. So that IS a truth. It IS objective. As far as you are concerned.

But......if you were to claim that, say, pie "is the best desert in the world" than THAT would be a subjective claim. That is, subject to your own opinions and tastes.

Or...claiming that one type of pie is better than an other. THIS is also subjective. But if you say, "Sweet Potato pie is my favorite" that is a fact. It is objective. It IS your favorite. But since it inherently is not qualifiably superior to other types of pie, if you claimed it is the BEST of all pies, you are making a subjective claim.

See? There IS a difference here. As long as you stick you claiming your OWN tastes, and admitting they are your own, you are being objective.

It is only when you foist your own personal tastes on us as being the TRUTH that you delve into subjective territory.

Capisce?

SS

changing the inputs or system, in a system change the outputs of that system, if that is the case, there is feasibly an optimum arrangement of system and inputs to get a result that cannot be surpassed by any other combination of system and inputs. this is theoretically perfection. and even if it cannot be obtained in the real world it exists theoretically. if you consider systems of thought or morality in the same way, then there is an absolute truth to any one desired outcome. the issue then becomes what the Perfect "system of culture"(SOC) Actually is. as one that mitigates all harm from humans while giving them no freedoms may not be a perfect "SOC" it instead would be a "Perfect system to mitigate harm" and since you can feasibly blend these various perfects, and create intermediates, the truly most perfect SOC does exist theoretically, as a bastardization of several perfects.

-

In this way, I'd think that both Accuracy, (how close you are to desired outcome) is subjective, and also, how close your outcome is to perfection is also subjective. but there still exist perfect truths, and accuracy related to them are not subjective.

-

I can't fucking words. I can't even.

SlapShot(2607) Clarified
1 point

changing the inputs or system, in a system change the outputs of that system, if that is the case, there is feasibly an optimum arrangement of system and inputs to get a result that cannot be surpassed by any other combination of system and inputs. this is theoretically perfection.

Yeah yeah.

And so all that pedantry and purple prose is just a fancy ass way of saying what is computer coders and computer science geeks have known for a long time........................

GIGO!

LOL

SS

1 point

Truth is subjective, Accuracy is not? You have made the perfect description of Hillary Clinton there Democrat.

1 point

Absolutely.

Truth is factual. God is factual. Jesus is factual.

The world around us is a mix of everything under the sun, and even though it feels factual, it's believing in lots of lies.

I say God is factual, and its because He is actually indisputable!

And when everything is gone, every lie and partial truth will also be gone. If you didn't pull back the onion enough to see if God is factual, I mean really look, then any talking point resistance has no real merit of investigation.

Many people who are atheist have gone headstrong in to disprove the Bible, and then in the end became Christians.

Why? Because it actually is indisputable!

1 - Is their unbelief is merely learned by a game called follow the leader. And that's juvenile.

2 - They are content in unbelief, and challenges are met without any attempt at all to investigate, just to argue a stance they got from somewhere else, everywhere else, but their own true investigation.

3 - They actually can't see or hear because their hearts are so hard to God, that He actually allows you to be blind and deaf by your own choice and your own hardness of heart.

4 - See if you never bothered to be open, and as a thinking adult with a heart that says if God exists I'd like to know, then it's pretty unfair to be blind and say someone who can see is lieing when they describe everything your foolish natural mind can't grasp, not because your not smart or a good person compared to other people, but because God doesn't actually give pearls to a stampede of Buffalo.

If it were me, and I was an atheist, I would hope that I atleast investigated it. I'd hate to think when every lie and partial truth passed away that I wouldn't have been a part of the real truth.

As a Christian living in this world, I actually know, and have investigated many "truths."

I have tolerated people in life and on Facebook, debate, twitter, and MEDIA to have untruths come out my nostrils enough to sneaze all day for a lifetime.

So no one can really say to me or to even most Christians, we don't know enough about something to make a decission about whether or not it falls under "truth"

But the atheist, actually has no idea what, how or why we see what we see. And they equate it to being 5 years old and believing in Santa Clause. But many mature brilliant minds believe in God, too.

So did you ever wonder what we see?

And unfortunately you may never be privy to insider information from God.

The only thing you can hope for sure, is if He a tally does exist, the Weeping at His Revealing will only last what might feel like an Eternity, will hopefully last a short time and end in complete silence.

That way you fished what you wished! Right?

1 point

Absolutely. Truth is factual. God is factual. Jesus is factual.

The world around us is a mix of everything under the sun, and even though it feels factual, it's believing in lots of lies.

Reason being, the big word, tolerance.

I'm all for tolerance. But tolerance means everyone around you is free to think and believe as they like. And that's fine, but when truth has to be compromised because of tolerance, it's not tolerance it forcing others to believe non truths or partial truths.

I say God is factual, and its because He is actually indisputable!

And when everything is gone, every lie and every piece of a partial truth will then also be gone. And, if you didn't pull back the onion enough to see if God is factual, I mean really look, then any talking point resistance has no real merit of investigation.

If you say you have a Red Corvette Convertable, well unless I know you, I cant tell if its true. So I have to assume.

Maybe your trying to impress people on line, or maybe you really have a Shiny Red Corvette.

Many people who are atheist have gone headstrong in to disprove the Bible, and in the end of their interogations of God and the Bible became Christians, and proved to themselves there is a God.

Why? Because it actually is indisputable!

People who don't believe it, have a few issues with their thoughts.

1 - Usually their unbelief is merely learned by a game called follow the leader. And that's juvenile. Now the same can be said for hand me down Christianity. Although often those thoughts end up directed and making connections. And the seed becomes a real fruit tree. Yep we are fruity!

2 - They are content in unbelief, and challenges are met without any attempt at all to investigate, just to argue a stance they got from somewhere else, everywhere else, but their own true investigation.

3 - They actually can't see, or hear because their hearts are so hard to God, that He actually allows you to be blind and deaf by your own choice and your own hardness of heart.

4 - See, if you never bothered to be open, And as a thinking adult with a heart that says, hey God, if God really exists I'm open to know, even better I'd actually like to know, then it's pretty unfair to be blind and say someone who can see is lieing when they describe everything your foolish natural mind can't grasp, not because your not smart or a good person compared to other people, but because God doesn't actually give pearls to a stampede of Buffalo.

If it were me, and I was an atheist, I would hope that I atleast investigated it. I'd hate to think when every lie and partial truth passed away that I wouldn't have been a part of the real truth.

The funny thing, as a Christian living n this world, I actually know lots of "truths" and have even investigated many "truths"

I have tolerated people in life, and on Facebook, through debates, twitter, and MEDIA ... enough to have untruths come out my nostrils I can sneeze untruths all day long for an entire lifetime!

So one can't really say to me I don't know enough to make a decission about any of those "truths"

But the atheist, we'll you actually have no idea what, how or why we see what we see.

And unfortunately you may never be privy to insider information from God.

The only thing you can hope for sure, is if He a tally does exist, the Weeping at His Revealing will only last what might feel like an Eternity, will hopefully last a short time and end in complete silence.

That way you fished what you wished! Right?

1 point

There are many "factual truths," that are absolutes in the world.

But I think we are talking about one truth vs another truth. In views or

in concepts like God exists or there is no God.

2 + 2 = 4 is an absolute, that is not "truth" pertaining to views. We wouldn't question it's "truth" because, it is a known universal absolute. Regardless of language or no language 2 + 2 results in 4, everytime.

If a kid dropped two marbles in a forest, then dropped two more marbles in the forest, when no one is in the forest, and if no other marbles were dropped in the forest, it doesn't matter whether we are in the forest, aware of the forest, or aware of the marbles is irrelevant to the absolute truth.

Absolutes are constant, no matter what our perception or our awareness is. Regardless there are still four marbles in the forest, UNLESS a bird ate one or more, then the truth is subtraction. The outcome is absolute, addition if more are dropped subtraction if taken away, whether we knew they were eaten or not is irrelevant.

If a bird ate one then there are three, its simply an absolute, Period. The truth what it is, even if we rename the numbers or the marbles.

::: Truth in perception or view is not as easy to conclude. So, when we ask about "truth," what we are really asking, is who and what is right or wrong? Or, asking can many there exist many different "right truths"

in difference to another's "right truths?"

We can't answer affirmatively in an absolute manner that is an acceptable absolute for all, even if an absolute, for all, actually exists.

So we create a truth about truth, and decide many truths exist. And we "co-exist" in universal agreement, but it still doesnt change truth.

Many truths do not, and can not exist. It's an absolute that ONLY one truth absolutely exists. And in the end, truth is reality, and we realize in reality exactly what truth existed all along.

Now if you ask, "Do people construct truths that "feel" right or good to them?" Yes. And "Do people accept many different truths?" Yes.Then, there ARE "many different rights' and many different truths that exist today, in the here and the now.

But, truth is absolute, and truth is not subject to change.

It can not really be "truth," if tomorrow it's false, or a lie.

Truth can't change to be whatever we decide is truth today, then tomorrow truth changes.

Truth is. Truth is realized.Truth Hidden, Truth is discovered. But truth can not be manufactured.

We can have a Buddha phase during one phase of our lives, and it be "truth" to us at the time, and have a Hindu phase tomorrow, and then that be our truth.

But "truth" never can change, it can be revealed and realized but can not be whatever we decide truth to be.

Since truth is not always easily or immediately realized. It's easy to manufacture a variety of truths in light of what we think about God, or our faith in any god's or God, who God is, and the characteristics of God, if He wants anything from us, or if any specific standards, guidelines, or plans, or if He even exists in the first place!

Truth may feel subjective, and individually interpretive, or in the world of Saintnow truth is only found in King James Old English, Gods ONLY language (LOL.)

But in the end, there still only is one truth, and not many truths.

A thourough investigation is the only way to be as sure as sure can be.

And in the end, the truth is graded. Revealed as Pass or Fail.

We should be convinced of truth. Because it is not and never will be subjective. And unfortunately we may never be privy to insider information direct from God, if God does truely exist.

The only thing you can hope for and know for sure is whatever THE Truth actually is will be revealed and realized at some point for everyone in the end.

So an investigation for truth is critical.The Truth, and not just a truth based on what color and flavor of truths we like best today, and our conclusions shouldn't be based on anothers conclusions.

If God really does exist, then we have to ask which directives if any are also true. And that is an individual investigative responsibility, Or you can just wing it when truth is revealed.

If God is The Yruth, then the writings might be the truth. And if in the end God and writings are true, then there will also be a final realization of that truth. So in the reveal of truth there may be weeping. And an unprepared Ness for His Revealing.

But, maybe you'll be fortunate, and the revealing will just last only a short time, even if it feels like an Eternity! You can manufacture new truths, you can believe weeping will end quickly, or be a pessimist believing it will never end. But, that too is revealed and realized, because truth just simply is truth.

Hopefully any unplanned weeping will last for only a short time. And hopefully any sorrow or pain will end quickly!

RIP! In a peaceful sleep, simply cease to exist, and know, void in complete silence!

So then your not disappointed, and your expectations met in the end anyway. It's like "you fished what you wished!" Right?