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If the cops are "cowering dogs", I demand to be able to carry a weapon seeing the cops won't be protecting me. How do liberals expect cops to take a billion guns away from people in the U.S. if cops can't even take on a kid?
I bet it'll take them 1,000 years just to disarm MS-13, the Bloods, & the Crips. Hell they might disarm the cops & start policing places like Chicago themselves. Oh wait.
It’s strange that when a cop does his job he is considered a murderous villain, but if he is a coward who fails to do his job, he is considered a good guy with a gun.
Incompetence would imply the deputies in question lacked the skill to go where they needed to go. Cowardice is more likely the cause of their inaction. A coward with a gun is not a good guy.
'Bravery', 'Courage', ect. are fundamental characteristics needed to do successfully perform the position--hence, incompetent due to a severe lack of these abilities.
Note: I was a Security Agent for several years and there was indeed no shortage of incompetence amongst the general population of employees--one of the most salient factors being a shortage of 'bravery', 'courage', ect. requisite to carry out confrontation when necessary. Ultimately, those lacking 'courage' would shift more of the work onto the Guards prepared to handle confrontation--either by explicitly asking for help or due to dereliction of duty; as seen in the case we are discussing here.
'Bravery', 'Courage', ect. are fundamental characteristics needed to do successfully perform the position
So you both are agreeing that the officers were cowards, but since you are saying it in different ways, you are not agreeing because your relative egos won't permit it.
Neither of you seems to have considered that police guidelines and regulations are often counterproductive to situations like these. Officers have a code to follow and if they fail to make the right decision in any given situation, they face disciplinary action.
Furthermore, if the premise that four armed police turned up is true (and I really haven't looked into it) then the odds of all four of those police being incompetent cowards are astronomically low, particularly if you are correct that bravery is a necessary part of the job.
Courage is a trait or a quality, not a skill. To be incompetent is to lack a skill. This is a semantic difference of little significance, which is why I walked away.
Neither of you seems to have considered that police guidelines and regulations are often counterproductive to situations like these.
I have considered it, and here’s the thing; setting up a safety parameter is what police used to do in these situations. It’s what they did at Columbine. Because of Columbine, training changed across the country, including training in Broward Co Florida. There are some allegations that deputies were responding to direction from above. This still maintains my point. If the guy with the gun is a coward, he is not a good guy with a gun. If the guy with the gun is mandated to stand down, he may as well not be a guy with a gun.
Furthermore, if the premise that four armed police turned up is true (and I really haven't looked into it) then the odds of all four of those police being incompetent cowards are astronomically low, particularly if you are correct that bravery is a necessary part of the job.
It is not surprising at all, actually--this used to happen all of the time with Security. There are many people who take such positions on the failed assumption that it is 'easy money' since nothing is likely to happen. Then, when conflict does inevitably arise, they simply opt out since they were never qualified for the position to begin with. Then, those who are qualified (or at least, more qualified) have to step-in to do what he others prove themselves unable/unwilling to handle
It is not surprising at all, actually--this used to happen all of the time with Security.
Ah, but security is not the police, is it? I have known many security guards and none of them are as tightly regulated as the police, which should be obvious really.
You see, the issue here is that I have presented you with an obstacle to your theory's conclusion (i.e. that all four of the officers were cowards) in terms of its lack of mathematical probability. Instead of investigating and eliminating that obstacle as is your responsibility in a debate, you have instead assumed your conclusion must have happened because you have concluded your conclusion happened. It is what is formally known as a circular argument.
There are many people who take such positions on the failed assumption that it is 'easy money' since nothing is likely to happen. Then, when conflict does inevitably arise, they simply opt out since they were never qualified for the position to begin with.
Thanks, but I am afraid that none of this is relevant because your initial analogy was erroneous. The police bear a public responsibility under law and are regulated to a much higher extent than private security contractors. In fact, most of my friends who have done security work have sat on their cheeks all night eating sandwiches and watching films, so I'm curious as to where you may have done security work. Baghdad? The Gaza strip perhaps? Orno, wait... I've got it. Uganda.
Ironically, it seems as though you are arguing my point without realizing it. Police require greater 'courage', 'bravery', ect. than security detail as the stakes are (often) much, much higher. Then, a person lacking said qualities is indeed highly incompetent at the job.
In fact, most of my friends who have done security work have sat on their cheeks all night eating sandwiches and watching films...
This does not surprise me in the least, as your under-achieving friends were the exact type of 'guards' I was previously referring to, which is a large problem in field. Then, it is not surprising that the same person who, of his own admission, got arrested for obnoxious displays of drunken foolishness would associate himself with the under-achieving sectors of the population.
Then, it is not surprising that the same person who, of his own admission, got arrested for obnoxious displays of drunken foolishness would associate himself with the under-achieving sectors of the population
That’s very insightful X and a searingly honest assessment of Noms character , hard working honest individuals seem to greatly upset him for some reason
hard working honest individuals seem to greatly upset him for some reason
Yes--'envy', 'jealousy', 'insecurity', ect. appear to be amongst the root causes of his hatred toward the strong, honest, and successful. It is quite sad, actually
Yes--'envy', 'jealousy', 'insecurity', ect. appear to be amongst the root causes of his hatred toward the strong, honest, and successful.
Hi MathFan. Do you think Number One cares about your pathetic attempts to troll him? I am sure he understands that your hatred is directly related to the number of times he has exposed you as the narcissistic, know-nothing troll you are.
Trust me, I know him well. Your loaded language and empty rhetoric only give him confirmation that he has hit his mark.
Oh and look, MathFan, your favourite neo-Nazi troll has joined in your quest to derail the topic away from your own stupid comments. You must be very proud to have such friends.
But you’re the one who admitted they hated Jews not me , there’s that projection you do every time as in accuse others of your faults
Let’s revisit what X said and I replied to , it’s basically exposing your idiocy yet again which in fairness is way to easy
Then, it is not surprising that the same person who, of his own admission, got arrested for obnoxious displays of drunken foolishness would associate himself with the under-achieving sectors of the population
That’s very insightful X and a searingly honest assessment of Noms character , hard working honest individuals seem to greatly upset him for some reason
Ironically, it seems as though you are arguing my point without realizing it.
Really? That's strange, because it seems to me as though you are attempting to use empty Orwellian rhetoric to counter a perfectly good point. I was under the impression that your own belief all four of these officers could have possibly been "incompetent cowards" proved MY point without you realising it, since the odds of that in a profession where, by your own admission, bravery is a necessary quality, are astronomically low. It is strange that you see no conflict between the claim that bravery is a necessary quality for the police, and the claim that police are all cowards.
Then again, you do enjoy contradicting yourself wherever possible, do you not?
as your under-achieving friends
Ah, back with the personal attacks are we? Jolly good. It's always the same deal with you, isn't it? Contradict yourself and then try to bluff your way out of it with empty rhetoric and personal attacks.
You literally could not defend an argument if your very life depended on it.
It is strange that you see no conflict between the claim that bravery is a necessary quality for the police, and the claim that police are all cowards.
I never once stated that "police are all cowards"--that is an extremely gross slander. I know/knew many police officers as off-duty cops, retired police, ect. were very commonly employed by the Security company. Rather, what I stated (and stand by) in regards to both Security, Police, ect. was:
"There are many people who take such positions on the failed assumption that it is 'easy money' since nothing is likely to happen. Then, when conflict does inevitably arise, they simply opt out since they were never qualified for the position to begin with. Then, those who are qualified (or at least, more qualified) have to step-in to do what he others prove themselves unable/unwilling to handle"
Now, this appeared to be the exact case of the officer(s) who failed to confront the shooter, which is the topic of this Thread. I do not find this surprising at all because the same issue occurred all the time when I did Security on a smaller scale on account of people like your friends
I never once stated that "police are all cowards"--that is an extremely gross slander.
No, it is a very reasonable conclusion derived from your completely baseless assumption that these four different police officers were all cowards. In order for that to be probable, then most police officers would have to be cowards. You have concluded it to be definite, which is only logically explained by the belief that every police officer is a coward. Capiche?
Also, it would be libel, not slander. Please get your terminology right, because your ignorance is very off-putting when coupled with your astounding arrogance.
Super Stupid would you like to know where Sheriff Scott Israel is from ?
Israel comes to law enforcement through his family. He was raised in New York City, where his father was a homicide detective with the New York Police Department, the Miami Herald reported in a 2017 profile. On a visit to Florida in 1979, Israel on a whim filed out an application with the Fort Lauderdale Police Department. By the mid-1980s he was working as a narcotics detective.
Would you even wonder if the Progressive was running a PC correct police department ?
In office, he has been particularly outspoken about gun policy. In 2013, the Florida Sheriffs Association released a statement supporting the state’s stand-your-ground law following the 2012 shooting of Trayvon Martin. Israel, however, broke from his fellow law enforcers, advocating for a narrower version of the law.
“The stand-your-ground law effectively tied the hands of the law enforcement investigation in George Zimmerman’s fatal shooting of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin — and it will continue to do so until this law is fixed,” he wrote in a commentary for the Sun-Sentinel.
Don't talk bad about your own party Super Stupid does not bode well for any insane comment you have !!!!!!
Let's go back to Old Crazy AL. Now that Dummy ranks right up there with you but i know he has surpassed you in stupidity !
And i quote Bowel AL - "It is likely that, had they heard hand gun fire, and not assault weapon fire, they would have entered. Obviously, they considered their chances of survival were quite small against that kind of firepower. Another reason to BAN them!"
Look right there Super Stupid the Good Guys with Guns were more concerned with their own lives then those of the students. What more can be said of the Stupidity of Progressives !
I agree that those cops did not do their jobs to try and save lives inside the school.
Had they been in the school and being shot at by some nut job, they indeed would have returned fire! It's called self defense in order to save everyone's lives.
There should be a question mark after this category. It is likely that, had they heard hand gun fire, and not assault weapon fire, they would have entered. Obviously, they considered their chances of survival were quite small against that kind of firepower. Another reason to BAN them!
Similarly, can you guarantee that a teacher would not hide in a closet (like many did that had the chance)! First responders with bulletproof vests DID enter. By then the shooting had stopped. Teachers are human beings also. Many have their own children at home or in school and want to continue to be there for them! Who knows how each one will react when they KNOW they are outgunned! Many will hesitate to pull the trigger on another human being when the time comes, that may cost THEM their lives! Not ALL have an NRA bloodlust, even if they are NRA members.
Now here we have Crazy AL with some really wild accusation(being he must tow the Party Line and Carry the Water) and i quote AL's blatant ignorance !
"It is likely that, had they heard hand gun fire, and not assault weapon fire, they would have entered. Obviously, they considered their chances of survival were quite small against that kind of firepower. Another reason to BAN them!"
AL you have to be the Most Ignorant Progressive alive !
The 4 officers were more concerned with their lives than those they are hired to serve and protect ? But we shall not forget that the Democrat from Florida said we can't make schools armed camps. Armed officers were there and it was their job to take down the shooter. The entire narrative fed to you by the Trough of Propaganda CNN is now coming unraveled !
The 4 deputies staged outside with weapons drawn. This is much the same as the policy that allowed the Columbine shooting to go one longer than otherwise. It is likely due to outdated policy in the Sheriffs Dept and may have to do with what they considered city jurisdiction.
The School Resource Officer was one of those four Deputies. He resigned, and with good reason. A good guy with a gun, who fails to do his duty with that gun, is not really the good guy for the job. Just as guns don’t kill people, guns don’t save people. But they do give people a chance to save themselves or others.
No school shooter has ever been stopped by a good guy without a gun.
2nd Amendment advocates do not want to maintain the rights of murderers. They want to maintain the rights of those who would stop them, like the NRA member who stopped the Church shooter in Texas.