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Debate Info

12
18
Relative to the Individual Absolute
Debate Score:30
Arguments:21
Total Votes:36
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Argument Ratio

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 Relative to the Individual (8)
 
 Absolute (12)

Debate Creator

Bradf0rd(1428) pic



WHAT IS THE MEANING OF TRUTH?

Simple, yes?

Relative to the Individual

Side Score: 12
VS.

Absolute

Side Score: 18
2 points

That you know is true

|

That the truth is a lie

Cannot be true

Then it’d be

A ruse

But then, of course

Yet again

Rest assured

The truth does lie

Within me within you

|

Till next time, how true you do?

Side: Relative to the Individual
2 points

Truth = That which improves awareness of reality.

Truth is often used as a synonym for objective reality. I find that to be a confused use of the term.

Side: Relative to the Individual
BlackSheep(203) Clarified
1 point

How is it confused use that the Truth = objective reality?

Side: Relative to the Individual
1 point

Truth is a subjective term. What may be true, here and now may not be a 'truth' there and then. According to who's standard? The 'burden of proof' changes with the query .

Absolute truth is there is no absolute truth, if that can make sense; anything is possible.

Side: Relative to the Individual

If truth is not subjective then why do so many people (with opposing views) claim that truth is on their side?

Side: Relative to the Individual
BlackSheep(203) Disputed
1 point

Simply because the truth can change in time and place does not mean it is not the truth then and there.

Side: Absolute

All truth is a matter of probability. All that can be known is the relative possibility of something being the case, or the truth. There is absolute truth, but only an all-knowing god would be able to know it. For us humans there is only well-educated guesses and relatively air-tight logic as our highest attainable knowledge of the truth.

Side: Absolute
mumin(215) Disputed
1 point

I find your argument spot on, but it does not provide a solution.

Your concept of human understanding of truth as a Boolean that goes through algorithmic processes effectively turns humans into robots. However, I believe that there is a path to understanding the truth for humans.

Rather than a simply a human process, finding this path is more likely a spiritual process – to bring us face to face with the final, pure, absolute truth that transgresses the limits of our mental cognition – that can be nothing that we would have ever known before, or anything that needs further elaboration.

This enlightenment has been referred to in many religions – as nirvana, or in the case of monotheistic religions, as heaven – though your argument still holds true as by then we would be likely far from human (condition).

As for those who would rather limit themselves to being robots, the ‘truth’ is lost to them as they are unable to grasp anything beyond their immediate, inadequate perceptions.

I believe that divine revelation regarding this path to enlightenment for mankind has been conveyed through prophets as a guide for those who seek it in earnest.

These enlightened messengers of God with divine inspiration in their understanding of the truth were able to achieve a level of perfection that is not commonly known to humans – an essential quality to lead the way to enlightenment.

If humanity would be put on a scale ranging from barbaric animalism to saintly virtue, these messengers of God were considered the highest on the scale, so much so that many humans went as far as to deify them.

Through this ‘agency’ of God (that has prevailed in all adversity) I believe there is way out of the finite, limited possibilities that humans can ever know, to the infinite boundless universe beyond – and a final, complete, perfect understanding of the truth.

Side: Absolute
2 points

The truth is the answer

To everything that you ever want to know

|

The truth is the silent master

To all that you can ever know

|

The truth is the reason

That you even want to know

|

But the truth

Is the only thing

|

That you know is true

Side: Absolute
2 points

Truth is absolute, merely because it bypasses human perception. While human perception is the only thing humans can you use to observe, this does not make things untrue. Just because you cannot see something does not mean it does not exist. For all we know, all the colors we see are actually different colors in truth, but that does not mean they are not truthfully the colors that we cannot see.

Truth in infallible, perception is not.

Side: Absolute
atypican(4878) Disputed
1 point

Look here.. It appears that we disagree on the meaning of truth!

I have a question for you. Do you think that ideas require perceiving minds for their very existence?

Side: Relative to the Individual
chatturgha(1645) Disputed
0 points

No, I do not. :) Things exist without humanity. They did before and they will when we are dead.

Side: Absolute
1 point

Truth

"The meaning of the word truth extends from honesty, good faith, and sincerity in general, to agreement with fact or reality in particular."

Basics

-Honesty

-Good Faith

-Sincerity

Let's find the common denominator of the meaning behind these words.

Honesty

"free of deceit and untruthfulness; sincere"

(Strike out "untruthfulness" because we are looking for the meaning of "truth")

Good Faith

"honesty or sincerity of intention"

(For honesty, see honesty, for sincerity keep reading)

Sincerity

"free from pretense or deceit; proceeding from genuine feelings"

So, the common denominators are:

-Free of deceit

Meanings:

Deceit

"the action or practice of deceiving someone by concealing or misrepresenting the truth"

Now, as you can see, after "Honesty, Good Faith, Sincerity" comes this little line that changes everything "...to agreement with fact or reality in particular".

Truth: Freedom of deceit to agreement with reality

This is impossible for every form of life imaginable. No matter what, we are inherently biased by the tools that we are given to know "reality". For example, when we look around the room, we see colors, but we have machines that are just as biased telling us that there is light that we cannot register with our eyes. Though we have eyes to see, they are biased to their form, we cannot see what they don't allow us to see. Therefor, even our eyes are deceitful. Everyone one of our senses, and even our thinking minds, are heavily biased to their form.

We cannot be free of deceit to know reality. Proceeding from that, we cannot even know anything, because knowing anything would require the truth of it... Truth and Knowledge go hand in hand.

Side: Absolute
atypican(4878) Disputed
1 point

"...to agreement with fact or reality in particular".

truth always improves an individual's awareness of reality. Truth is necessarily related to individual awareness.

We cannot be free of deceit to know reality. Proceeding from that, we cannot even know anything, because knowing anything would require the truth of it... Truth and Knowledge go hand in hand.

So you must be agnostic :)

While a single truth can't remove all obstructions to a clear undistorted view of reality it can remove some. Truth is not that which makes our view of reality flawless but that which enables us to identify flaws.

Side: Relative to the Individual
1 point

truth is one and doesn't change with the view of others, but the reaction to this truth depends on the perception of the person searching for this "truth".

Side: Absolute
1 point

Truth is that which is. If it is a matter of opinion then the word is meaningless.

There are three sides to any story. There is my side, your side and then there is the truth.

Side: Absolute

If I were to hazard a guess, maybe the universe before Planck Time.

Side: Absolute