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Debate Info

231
275
God Big bang theory
Debate Score:506
Arguments:193
Total Votes:716
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 God (96)
 
 Big bang theory (97)

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unknown91(132) pic



Was the world really created by god or the big bang theory?

Think about it, the answer is obvious!!

God

Side Score: 231
VS.

Big bang theory

Side Score: 275
7 points

Sure the big bang theory makes a lot of sense, it truly does. but what if there really is something bigger out there. to have such a force to create the big bang theory, there would have had to be something out there to create the big force, surely.

my vote is god purely because sometimes, you need to think outside the square you live in right?? the big bang theory is purely scientific evidence. For sure science has gone a long way but they are trying to prove that the atmosphere created the big bang theory because the more they "research" the more money they get out of the findings, correct?

| Side: God
Mahollinder(898) Disputed
12 points

"but what if there really is something bigger out there."

There could be. And this would have absolutely no impact on whether Big Bang cosmology is correct.

"to have such a force to create the big bang theory, there would have had to be something out there to create the big force, surely."

And we descend into an infinite regression of inquiry that ultimately leads us nowhere and does not increase our understanding of anything.

"my vote is god purely because sometimes, you need to think outside the square you live in right??"

Isn't that precisely what we did? For many, many centuries standard knowledge told us that the phenomena within the universe were created or at least guided into existence by god/gods/goddesses/forces/dragons etc... god was and is the "square". Now we have a model of the universe that helps us account for universal constants, experiment and manipulate these phenomena, and increase human knowledge.

Big Bang cosmology helped us leave the square "god did it" rhetoric and expanded our understanding of the universe.

"For sure science has gone a long way but they are trying to prove that the atmosphere created the big bang theory because the more they "research" the more money they get out of the findings, correct?"

This is completely wrong.

| Side: Big bang theory
anthrstofmnd(36) Disputed
5 points

I realize what you are saying in that we have left the square of the "god did it" rhetoric because of the theory that we have today, but then there is even bigger square outside of that proving the existence of God. Science will never be able to explain where all of the matter and energy in the universe and the big bang came from. Something cannot come from nothing. That is my reason for believing in creationism. I don't believed it happened as described exactly as it is in the Bible, but I believe in the message that the story was trying to get across: that God created the world, the universe, and humanity, in one way or another.

| Side: God
Cerin(203) Disputed
7 points

That's a great argument. So, for A to exist, there must exist a B that caused A to exist. So if the big bang is A, then God must be B, and therefore God exists! That makes perfect sense!

Wait a second. For A to exist, there must exist a B that caused A to exist. So if the God is A, then meta-God must be B, and therefore meta-God exists! That makes perfect sense!

Wait a second. For A to exist, there must exist a B that caused A to exist. So if the meta-God is A, then meta-meta-God must be B, and therefore meta-meta-God exists! That makes perfect sense!

Wait a second...

| Side: Big bang theory
totolike(1) Disputed
1 point

This comment is just plain stupid, "Man cannot create something from nothing. That is, every idea you have, no matter how creative you think it is, comes directly from things you've observed somehow. So your stupid comment says

A. Big Bang

B. God

God is an existence, not a human being.

So your so-called god is a human being that created the big-bang?

| Side: God
jessald(1909) Disputed
3 points

The thing is it's impossible for us to know anything about the force that created the universe. It could have been God, it could have been an accidental "explosion", it could have been anything. Because it's impossible for us to understand the force that created the universe, it makes no sense to say God was that force.

| Side: Big bang theory
3 points

i second that......science sure has evolved very much but we cant explain for certain how the earth was made but all we know is that there somthing very powerfull going on in space.....

| Side: God
einhander(19) Disputed
1 point

such as? worm holes? antimatters? supernovas?

do you even know what those are?

| Side: Big bang theory
einhander(19) Disputed
1 point

Ridiculous. "What if?"

Your opinion that something creates the big bang is totally irrelevant to the fact that Big bang is the best theory out there that explains the origin of the universe SO FAR. And scientists aren't shy about admitting that there IS something that triggers it. Science is fallible, but it's honest. And it's STILL LOOKING FOR THE ORIGIN. Not sitting on its ass like all the religious authority in the world.

Believing that something creates the big bang only will result in another questions "what creates it?"

If your answer is GOD, then you'll need to support your answer with arguments. Otherwise, it's just faith, and you can keep your faith to yourself.

Yes, science and research generates money to the scientists. Yes, science ALWAYS THINKS OUTSIDE THE SQUARE YOU LIVE IN. So my suggestion is to look around more outside your religious studies ( if you have any ) and outside your community ( if you've never been out ).... and only then you can suggest people to think outside the box

Here's an example of something you probably never think about: this website you're writing at is one manifestation of that "findings" you're talking about.

oh... and also the internet, and your electricity, your computer, etc

the atmosphere created the big bang theory << wow.

| Side: Big bang theory
jenniferadki(6) Disputed
1 point

Ummkay, you say this but how true is it really?? Do you really want to go your whole life believing in someone that you don't for sure know is even there. How could you really think that one man is the one that made everything.... and if so who made him?? i think that there is something way bigger going on.

| Side: Big bang theory
1 point

The scientific community doesn't make money based on how much research they perform. They don't even get paid on a per-discovery basis (generally speaking, at least).

Money is earned in more or less four ways.

First, and the least, is funding. Individuals, businesses, government, and other entities provide scientists with money to cover material and living costs for the scientists to do perform research that is relevant to the entity providing the funding. This isn't paying someone for results, but rather, it's more like giving them a budget to find results.

Second, most potentially lucrative, but rare in the current climate, is when a scientist or group of scientists makes a discovery that is somehow marketable. This only really comes into play when they are researching independently or with donations, however. When research is funded by a business (or something to that effect) it is generally stipulated that rights to any discoveries belong to those providing the funding.

Third, and generally more common in the current climate, is when a scientist with sufficient background publishes a book that is able to sell, but we're getting into a different skillset altogether here.

The most common case is being on someones payroll directly, most frequently as a professor at a university, but also quite often working on teams for businesses or government.

In none of these cases, though, does the scientist get paid for "more research." In all cases, they are paid for what they deliver or what they are expected to deliver. In some cases, scientists have been known to try and squeeze more funding for a project and intentionally drag it out, but that's hardly the norm.

The same line of thinking you use is more accurate if turned back towards god as well; religions as institutions make a LOT of money, and large ones, such as the Catholic Church, certainly have a financial incentive to convince as many people that 1) god exists and 2) exists in a manner consistent with their own teachings.

| Side: Big bang theory
65Marcus(5) Disputed
1 point

Something of what you say is true, but I read an article in a nation paper not too long ago that talked of the deceit of scientists who bend facts and do not give the full truth so that they may get their work published or attract funds for their project, Scientist are not always above corruption.

| Side: God
CONTESSA415 Disputed
-1 points

How can anyone believe in the big bang. How could the big bang have created people, animals, flowers and everything else beautiful (or not) in the world. It would have needed a supreme being.....God

| Side: Big bang theory
4 points

There is no way to know and it depends on how you interpret god. Even then though, you have to wonder where god came from, and if there is a higher nature than it. If so, then the world came from there... but then again you have to wonder where that came from.

I don't like to think about it. No matter which you believe, in god or not, there is no way to humanly explain what reality is beyond your own present feelings.

| Side: We can never know for sure
2 points

I agree with what you're saying, but if we know nothing about the initial force, why call it god? That word is just so loaded.

| Side: God
pvtNobody(641) Disputed
3 points

Why not call it God. Wouldn't that help resolve the tension between science and religion that makes the word god so "loaded"?

| Side: Big bang theory
4 points

This one's interesting.

First of all I accept the big-bang as the best theory on how the universe was created. However we are now faced with the question of wether it was God who created the universe through the big-bang or did the big-bang occur because of other reasons?

If God did create our universe through the big-bang then I see no reason for squabbling between scientists and religious people. However if the bigban occured by other means that leads us to an array of questions (as science is supposed to do). What caused that small point that had everything contained in it expand? (extradiensional forces?, a giant spaggeti monster? etc..)

And if it was extradimensional forces what caused that? and what caused the previous event.

In the end science does not answer all questions and a true scientist does not try to answer al questions.

Science does not revoke religion nor religion science; they co-exist, that which we can explain is science, the rest mystical and will be viewed as such. I believe There is no wrong nor falsehood in believing in God (or what you may believe in).

Science and mathematics explain how the universe works and was created, they are the building tools of the Great Architect.

| Side: Science and Religion
4 points

BOTH!!!!

I have always believed in the big bang theory- it makes sense. But I also realized a long time ago that the energy and the molecules involved had to come from somewhere. I believe God made the big bang happen and then the rest of the universe, life, and human history followed suit.

Edit: I just realized I already posted a response to this debate over 130 days ago.... whoops.

| Side: Both

That's right god created the big bang so that the big bang can create the universe. Just LIKE GOD CREATED OUR ANCESTORS AND THEY CREATED US BUT god created us.

| Side: God
XMAN19(3) Disputed
2 points

You people do not realize this but something can come from nothing! Someone please look this up on youtube "A Universe From Nothing by Lawrence Krauss".

| Side: Big bang theory
3 points

I believe, quite strongly, that God exists. Therefore I must conclude that He created the universe. However, I also consider myself a student of science and must accept the evidence for an event that has caused the universe to expand infinitely from a single point. These two beliefs are not in any way in opposition to one another if one reaches the logical conclusion that the Old Testament is a collection of myths, each of which contains a kernel of truth but have been changed over possibly thousands of years by oral retelling. By doing so, we can then hypothesize (since the existence of God cannot be proven) that God was the driving force behind the Big Bang and is therefore responsible for the creation of the universe.

| Side: God
3 points

Firstly, why not believe that god created the big bang, No one gives into the bullshit of seven days,

Secondly, this is far fetched, but if you have seen harry potter 3/prisoner of Azkaban or back to the future, you might understand, God created the big bang, which created himself, and he went back in time and created the big bang thus creating himself to create another self in a countinuous round of time, i'm babbling, BYE

| Side: God
3 points

It would be God because the bible said so and he has the power to do anything...

| Side: God
JakeJ(3232) Disputed
3 points

Are you trying to make christians sound stupid?

| Side: God
composition1(6) Disputed
3 points

so you would rather listen to a book written thousands of years ago than modern facts? not to sound mean or crash on your faith but really, think about it.

| Side: Big bang theory
Marki243(4) Disputed
0 points

When you really think about it, the Bible does make sense. Just because it says it happens instantaneously doesn't mean it does. It takes time. All stories in the Bible are overtime and not instantaneous, and also how do we know that what we believe in is true. That is faith. Oh and by the way modern facts aren't really that new and all these theories are just theories with no way to prove it. It'll be impossible to do so anyways. Also think about it. How can some random explosion result in an amazingly complex universe and amazingly complex organisms. There is something out there. Even if I didn't believe in God, I'd end up coming to that conclusion.

| Side: God
3 points

I believe in the Big Bang... However, how did that come to be? The only logical choice is God! Unless somebody has a better hypothesis? Where did that small, dense particle come from???

| Side: Both
xaeon(1073) Disputed
5 points

Have you considered the possibility of an infinite universe? If you've rejected such an idea, please explain to me why it's acceptable for god to be infinite but not the universe.

| Side: Big bang theory
MKIced(2311) Disputed
3 points

It doesn't matter if the universe is infinite or not. I'm just saying: How did it begin? There is no explanation other than God.

| Side: God
3 points

There is no absolute scientific proof to back up the BB Theory and there NEVER will be. Media slants things the way they like it just to remove the religious aspect. They just are too stubborn to have such a simple explanation. It like they NEED science just to prove things that cant be proved. NO ONE honestly knows, so if know one knows, how can you even attempt to prove by science? Its the work of God.

| Side: God
SilentSound(113) Disputed
4 points

How can you say "There is no absolute proof..." then say "Its the work of God" in the same paragraph.

The reason why there is no "absolute proof" is because regardless of the answer science gives you, you will simply ask another question until science can't answer it.

| Side: Big bang theory
wesmont(1) Disputed
4 points

You are incorrect, there is lots of scientific evidence that supports the big back theory, which is why scientific consensus throughout the world has made it the accepted theory of how the universe began. To actually get into detail and explain the evidence in support of the theory would just confuse most people, and often does, which leads to the commonly held belief by laypeople that it's an unfounded theory without any actual proof to support it. Additionally, the argument that the consensus of the scientific community is some kind of conspiracy in academia is similar to saying that the U.S. government planned the 9/11 attacks and are covering it all up..... it's just what it sounds like, a crazy conspiracy theory. You can't go blaming the media either, they have no real interest in supporting the theory. You're just reacting to the fact that the dominant theory threatens your world view. I could easily take your statement and replace the words "BB Theory" with "existence of God" and replace the word "science" with religion (and vice versa). You might think that such an event as the big bang is totally irrational, but there IS scientific data and logically derived conclusions that have convinced many very educated, very smart people that it is THE most plausible theory... however, there is no empirical evidence that God exists. As is clear from your statement, the argument for His existence is that "every other theory is impossible/unprovable so it MUST be his work." I could say the same about aliens from another dimension or magic, surely you wouldn't admit that they also could have created the universe or life on this planet? You are the one who is too stubborn to accept to accept such a simple explanation that the universe appeared out of no where, and that a tremendous amount of energy came out of what seemingly was nothing at all (similar to how splitting a single atom produces the greatest amount of energy humans have so far been able to produce). By no means does this mean you are wrong to have faith... but that's what religion and belief in God is, faith, and you shouldn't go asking for or offering proof for God's existence, faith is the only thing that matters in that regard. Science, however, is based on empirical evidence and the scientific method, and you obviously are throwing out blanket statements about a theory you don't fully understand. If you did, you would know that there is plenty of proof to support it, and it would not be the dominant theory and have the support of the world scientific community if there was none.

| Side: Big bang theory
3 points

alot of the scientist dont have concrete info.If you read their books and tv programs it is always Maybe this happened or maybe that.and everytime someone else come change there theory and prove them wrong then they go with someone elses so call discovery.i think they are confuse.The Quraan explain stuff that scientist only came to figure out now.Scientist should studdy the Quraan then they will get all the answers they looking for.

| Side: God
3 points

if the big bang thing happened then who created the thing that caused the big bang.someone must have created the thing where it started.it could not have just one day appeared there and wallaa there it happened.everything starts somewhere.it had to be created.so somewhere along the line scientist will end up where our beliefs come in.

| Side: God
3 points

As an agnostic, I must say, we do not know. But it is my belief that God got bored one day and decided to create matter. And when he did, it resulted in a big bang that resulted in the universe.

| Side: God
3 points

I'll kill two birds with one stone. God created the big bang. BAM!

| Side: God
3 points

the big bang theory is purely scientific evidence. For sure science has gone a long way but they are trying to prove that the atmosphere created the big bang theory because the more they "research" the more money they get out of the findings, correct?

Supporting Evidence: 650-180 exam (www.actual-exams.com)
| Side: God
3 points

Its obvious that God created the world,but yet some people think that it was the big bang-but did they ever think that God created the big bang so it could create the world so really God was behind all this in the first place!!!????????

| Side: God
2 points

if the big bang created the earth how did people appear???

| Side: God
XMAN19(3) Disputed
1 point

You do realize the earth is 4.6 BILLION years old right? Things can evolve over long periods of time.

| Side: Big bang theory
2 points

Wouldn't you like to think that you were created for a reason. I find that majority of people would like to think so. To me the big bang theory is the equivalent of giving a monkey a bag with a bunch of pieces parts and telling him to shake it, the finished product a watch!!! No thats not going to happen!!! Sorry if you thought it would, hey you can keep on trying but your monkey will probably get mad and start flinging poop at you. Anyway, God created everything! It was created by Him and for His pleasure. If you choose not to believe this thats cool, but HELL is also a very real place! Think about it, heaven or hell? Which would you rather be in for eternity?

| Side: God
2 points

Its obvious that God created the world,but yet some people think that it was the big bang-but did they ever think that God created the big bang so it could create the world so really God was behind all this in the first place!!!????????

| Side: God

It was Allah who created the big bang while the big bang created the world. So, scientifically The big bang. Truly, Allah.

| Side: God

God created the big bang just as the big bang created the world.

| Side: God

God created the universe. because god created the big bang

| Side: God

God created the big bang just as the big bang made the world

| Side: God
2 points

If the big bang theory is true, where did the big bang come from? Do you have a theory about where the big bang came from? IF so, do you have a theory about where that came from? If so do you have a theory of where that came from? If you dont believe in God, you cant believe in the big bang theory either. In my opinion, if you are an atheist and believe in the Big Bang, you are believing in something that contradicts science and is as silly as me holding out my hand and having a pile of poop appear out of thin air. Most people dont give the bible credit, because everyone is to busy trying to prove it wrong, when the fact is theres just as much proof jesus christ walked the earth as Caesar ruled rome. Research it your self! Sure, bible thumpers make everything seem unreal and corny, but when it comes down to it . . . . the beginning of time is incomprehensible by man, thats a fact(dont we all agree?) so we can all agree there is some form of higher power, because obviously man did not create the world and neither did nature (Have you seen another big bang since the first one? didnt think so!)

| Side: God
1 point

We all know that the universe is expanding, which leads to the conclusion that at some point in the very distant past the universe (all of space, time and matter) were infinitely small. This is known as the singularity. Some physicists have attempted to dance around the conclusion that if the universe had a beginning it must have had a cause. Einstein had to fudge his numbers to try and get around the singularity, Hartle and Hawking do the same now.

The Big Bang was certainly the beginning of the universe. From there it is simple to induce that 'ex nihil nihil fit'...from nothing, nothing comes.

To break it down into a logical syllogism...

1. Everything that begins to exist must have a cause for its existence.

2. The universe began to exist.

3. Therefore the universe has a cause for its existence.

The syllogism is logically sound and valid. Both premises are true and the conclusion follows necessarily from the premises.

So what can we induce about the cause of the Big Bang.

-it must be immaterial because it existed in the absence of all matter

-it must be timeless because it existed in the absence of time.

-it must be personal because it intended to create the universe.

-it must be enormously powerful because it had the power to create the entire universe

Folks, when we talk about something that is enormously powerful, timeless, immaterial and personal, we are talking about God.

Some have suggested that the God hypothesis is false because God must have been caused, but this is simply not true.

First of all, if God is timeless sans universe, then God is uncaused, eternally existent. Secondly, we do not need to know anything about the nature of the cause of the universe to know that the universe was caused. For example, if we land on Mars and discover a functioning Martian communication device, we do not need to know anything at all about the nature of the Martians to know that they exist.

Those who deny that God created the universe are left to explain how something came from absolutely nothing. That is worse than magic. At least a magician has a hat from which to pull the rabbit.

Supporting Evidence: Kalam Cosmological Argument (www.reasonablefaith.org)
| Side: God
xaeon(1073) Disputed
7 points

There are some pretty big logical flaws here.

"Everything that begins to exist must have a cause for its existence."

This is an assumption. We know that there was a singularity, and a large explosion occurred which caused the rapid expansion of the universe out of this singularity. The singularity, however, could have existed forever. It could even have been a previous universe going through it's big bang/big crunch. Your argument unfortunately breaks down at this point, as your premises are not shown to be true.

"it must be immaterial because it existed in the absence of all matter"

Assumption. We don't know what existed before the universe, or indeed if there even was a before. Remember that time is possibly only a property of this universe, so anything outside of the bounds of this universe is purely assumption.

"it must be timeless because it existed in the absence of time."

Assumption. As I stated above, we can't make any assumptions of time outside of the bounds of the universe.

"it must be personal because it intended to create the universe."

Ouch! Not only is this a huge assumption, but this one isn't even based on any current knowledge. Quite sneaky as you attempted to throw this line in between three other possibly valid (though, remember, they are all just assumptions) statements. Please show me how you can deduce that there was intention to create the universe. Just because it is here doesn't mean that there was any intention for it to be here. Can you back this statement up?

"it must be enormously powerful because it had the power to create the entire universe"

Assumption, though this one is highly likely. Within the bounds of the universe, I'd have to agree with you. The first law of thermodynamics also agrees with you. But remember, we're talking possibly about pre-universe here. Or, possibly, about a universe that has always existed. Maybe the power that is used to create the new universe is simply the power emitted by the big crunch of a previous universe?

"Some have suggested that the God hypothesis is false because God must have been caused, but this is simply not true."

I can assure you that it is. What you've done here is assumed that the universe could never have always existed and that god could have. These are simply assumptions. If you're willing to accept that god has always existed, why are you not willing to accept that the universe has always existed? The fact that the state of our current universe came from an explosion within a singularity is not important. We have no current understanding, evidence, etc, of anything that occurred beforehand; therefore the universe always existing is just as likely as god always existing. If you aren't willing to accept an ever-existing universe, then I am afraid that I am unable to accept an ever-existing god.

"Those who deny that God created the universe are left to explain how something came from absolutely nothing."

If you can show me that the universe absolutely hasn't always existed, perhaps; but you can't. Regardless, the jump from "something had to exist previously" to "well, it had to be an intelligent personal god then" is too far a jump. It's all just assumptions, which you're trying to back up with logic. The problem is that your logic just doesn't hold up under scrutiny.

It's amazing what people will accept with god ("oh, god, yeah, he's always existed"), but will refuse to accept with the universe.

| Side: Big Bang
vertigo(29) Disputed
1 point

Those aren't logical flaws or assumptions my friend.

"Everything that begins to exist has a cause for its existence"

It is absurd to deny that something that begins to exist can do so without a cause. Please provide some examples of things that have begun to exist without cause. (Obviously you can't say the universe because that is exactly what is up for debate here.) Maybe you have a horse that began to exist without cause (no parents, no magician, no illusionists...it just appeared in your living room while you were trying to watch TV.) Maybe a car? Your only response to my premiss is to say "It could have existed forever", or "It couldhave been a previous universe." You posit fanciful imaginary scenarios to try and get around the fact that my premiss is plainly true.

"It must be immaterial because it existed in the absence of all matter."

How is this an assumption? We cannot talk about 'before the universe' because time and matter came into existence at the same moment. If the cause of the universe existed without the universe, as it must have because the universe could not cause itself, then the cause of the universe existed in the absolute absence of matter. Something that exists in the absence of matter is necessarily immaterial.

Same goes for the 'timelessness' of the cause.

It must be personal...

We know this because an impersonal set of mechanical causes could not exist without their resulting effect. If this were the case, then the universe would have always existed, which is mathematically impossible as it would constitute an infinite regress of cause and effect.

Enormously powerful...you seem to agree, although you don't want to.

Why am I comfortable with an eternal God but not an eternal universe? As I mentioned previously, the physical universe, if it existed eternally, would constitute an eternal regress of cause and effect. This is mathematically impossible as it lead to several contradictory conclusions, all of which must be true, but some of which are mutually exclusive. An eternal, immaterial, timeless being is certainly logically plausible as established by my arguments previously.

The plain science says that the universe had a beginning in the finite past. This fact is just not up for debate among serious scientists. Your oscillating universe idea was debunked long ago, you should drop that one from your list of rebuttals.

Sorry xaeon, but your comments do not demonstrate that my premisses are flawed. You seem to think that we can only know things that we can detect empirically. This is far from the truth. There are many things that we know that are impossible to detect empirically, things like the laws of logic ('A' cannot be 'Not A'). The things that we know about what could have existed without the universe are well established by the laws of logic.

| Side: God
0 points

Good show my dearest friend. I thoroughly agree with every one of those points.

| Side: Big bang theory
invaderjess(2) Disputed
5 points

I agree with Xaeon. The 'uncaused causer' theory has always amused me. "Oh, nothing can exist without a cause.. Except god!"

-it must be personal because it intended to create the universe.

You have pulled that from nowhere! Without that point you cannot deduce god, so you've just slipped it in. The universe creation doesn't have to be personal, that's what the debate is trying to answer, so you can't use that point to prove itself. If it's personal there must be a god. You can't debate that the universe was created by god because it was created by god!

| Side: Big bang theory
jessald(1909) Disputed
2 points

While I like your argument much more than the other flaming pieces of ignorance on this side of the debate, I still see some serious flaws.

You ask how the universe could have begun without God.

One possible explanation is that the universe has simply always existed. Your assumption that "The universe began" is not necessarily true.

Second, the laws of physics do not necessarily apply outside of our universe. Therefore it's entirely possible that something can indeed come from "nothing." Here "nothing" could mean "void" or "stuff beyond our universe about which it's impossible to know anything." So your assumption that "Everything... must have a cause" is also not necessarily true.

With these flawed assumptions, the rest of your argument has no foundation.

"-[the cause of the Big Bang] must be personal because it intended to create the universe."

This conclusion is definitely flawed. The cause of the Big Bang could very well have been accidental.

| Side: Big Bang
zico20(248) Disputed
1 point

why are you making stuff up? Science shows that the universe has NOT always existed. It had a finite beginning through the big bang. Show me one point of evidence that the universe always existed. You cant. Second, the laws of physics dont apply outside of our universe? Once again you are just making up crap. NO scientific evidence exists to prove your point.

Something can come from nothing? Once again, science has zero evidence that something can appear from nothing. Please try to use actual science to dissprove God exists. All the scientific evidence points to a supreme being. Everything you said is wild accustations; which doesnt surprise me since that is all atheists have.

Come back here after you have a sound scientific platform to stand on.

| Side: God
1 point

Hello I am new to createdebate. Nice to meet you all. I will argue against the big bang theory if I may. Well sort of. Sure the universe could have started as a tiny dense ball that exploded. I don't have a problem with that. But what of the space around the tiny dense ball? After all, the tiny dense ball is the origin of time and space. How can you have time and space surrounding the tiny dense ball if the origin for time and space is within the tiny dense ball? Where can you find any room to explode? Something has to pre-exist time and space to create it. Something has to be timeless and spaceless. I simply ask you to think about time and space creation without getting caught in an infinite logical loop.

| Side: God
Muaguana(155) Disputed
3 points

"But what of the space around the tiny dense ball?"

The universe is space and time. All that is the universe was contained within the singularity (according to the theory). So there was no space surrounding the ball, because the ball WAS space. And remember that the big bang theory was postulated according to the evidence observed, thus all it explains is that the universe was at one time compressed in this manner - it does not explain directly what was "outside" the singularity.

Here's a short video detailing the rudiments of the big bang theory for quick reference: http://www.thoughttheater.com/2008/07/evidence_for_the_big_bang_theory_in_10_minutes.php

"How can you have time and space surrounding the tiny dense ball if the origin for time and space is within the tiny dense ball?"

No one ever claimed you could.

"Where can you find any room to explode?"

Contrary to its name, the big bang theory does not assume there was an explosion, merely an expansion of the universe. We don't know what is beyond the universe, but the universe is finite, therefore whatever void surrounded the universe was the "room" for it to expand in.

"Something has to pre-exist time and space to create it."

Not necessarily; this is a commonly-held assumption that is not supported by any scientific evidence whatsoever. The greatest mind-twister of this is that singularities defy conventional physics (remember there are singularities today, existing at the center of black holes), therefore any number of possibilities exist as to what caused the singularity to appear (or if it has always existed) and what caused it to expand. So whatever force caused it to expand is beyond our current comprehension - but science is ever evolving. And even if we do discover evidence of an unknown force propelling the expansion, or even the creation, calling it God and ceasing all attempts to discover the natural cause is illogical, because then we'd just be filling in the blanks with an equally unexplainable phenomenon, rather than working to find the true, natural solution. We may never find the answer, but we can at least be intellectually honest with ourselves in saying, "I don't know, let's find out."

Also, the big bang theory and god are not mutually exclusive; you can believe the big bang theory and also believe that a god created the singularity - deism is a logical enough stance to have. However, you would have to concede that you do not know the mechanism this "god" used to create the singularity, putting yourself in the same position as those who believe the big bang theory but don't know what made the singularity. It just seems more concise to not bring metaphysics into the equation.

"I simply ask you to think about time and space creation without getting caught in an infinite logical loop."

It's impossible to avoid the infinite when speaking about the origins of existence. Even with the idea of god creating the universe, you can't avoid implying eternity in some aspect or another.

Further reading on the subject:

http://burro.astr.cwru.edu/stu/cosmos_bigbang.html

http://www.thekeyboard.org.uk/The%20Big%20Bang%20Theory.htm

Supporting Evidence: Big Bang Theory Rudiments/Evidence (www.big-bang-theory.com)
| Side: Big Bang
jessald(1909) Disputed
3 points

"How can you have time and space surrounding the tiny dense ball if the origin for time and space is within the tiny dense ball?"

That's an interesting point. I never really considered it.

However, this argument suffers from the same problem as all the other arguments on this side of the debate, that is: It is impossible for us to know anything about the stuff outside and beyond our universe. Maybe time and space are simply properties of our own universe and don't apply outside it's bounds. Time, space, logic, all of these concepts apply within our universe, but why should they apply outside of it? Further, since we can understand absolutely nothing about this possible stuff outside of our universe, why call it God?

| Side: Trying to explain the unexplainable
1 point

Alroight enough of this bullshit, each of these things are theories, so neither of them can be proven true. I believe in a God. you believe the big bang thing. there each theories. nuff said

| Side: God
jessald(1909) Disputed
3 points

The difference is that the big bang theory is grounded in reason whereas God is grounded in faith. Faith is not a strong foundation.

Also, you are misusing the word "theory." The Big Bang is a theory. God is not.

| Side: Big bang theory
Marki243(4) Disputed
0 points

So you're saying that God is not a theory am I correct in saying this? If so, then you are saying that God can exist and that the Big Bang is just a thought. Faith is a foundation and you must MAKE it a strong foundation. It doesn't become a strong foundation on its own. And also I don't think the Big Bang Theory is grounded in reason because think about it, how can a totally RANDOM explosion create an amazingly complex universe and even more complex organisms such as ourselves? How are we even alive? What causes us to act the way we are? There is no scientific explanation for that because it will lead to even more questions that will result in even more questions until science is exhausted.

| Side: God
1 point

In my opinion, God created the big bang, because to even have a "big bang" there has to be something greater out there. It just seems to make more sense to me to have a God that created this rather than just believing that something turned up from nothing.

| Side: God
1 point

the big bang happend but didnt CREATE the world! because to cause the bb there has to be a greater power/force out there!

| Side: God

God created the big bang which created the world and the sun.

| Side: God
1 point

my opinion..

so... a big bang?

explosions ie big bangs cause destruction, not life.

This world could have been chance?

Nope. watch the vid >>

GOD is the only thing possible to create life... and He did. :)

'it would have been very difficult to explain why the universe would have begun in just this way, except as the act of a God who intended to create beings like us.' Professor Steven Hawking

video

| Side: God
1 point

This is logical. One would question, "How is everything so complex yet what is believed to create it is something so very random and not organized?" Only God or something else could have done this. Likewise, explosions only are destruction and how are they supposed to create something so complex when explosions disperse matter? I support this opinion.

| Side: God
1 point

By contrast, if a closed system is far from equilibrium, its entropy will increase dramatically, which can compensate for a substantial entropy decrease of a local system. Thus, ordered structures are more likely to be created from a non-equilibrium state than an equilibrium state.

http://www.wmposters.com

| Side: God

I believe that God initiated The Bing Bang as well as evolution. People try so hard to separate God and science when in reality they can coexist.

| Side: God
Marki243(4) Disputed
1 point

I support God, but when you put evolution with God it makes no sense. Why would intelligent supernatural beings(God is three beings who think the same according to the Bible it is God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit) want there to be mutations to something mutilated when Humans were supposed to be made in His image. If evolution was true, why isn't there anything that's not fully developed into a certain organism such as an fish-lizard or lizard-ape or ape-human? Science and God can coexist but with certain concepts only.

| Side: God
1 point

I will support god.....m physics student i did masters in that then also i will go for god......because big bang is just a theory...which is created by one man his assumption ....his guesses and not more than that....the person who is thinking how this world created...you,me and all people are made by god.....this beautiful nature....is by god..not by physics nor by any assumptions.....its a thinking of one person who is sharing his thoughts with u all................god created nature,this world and scientists and all subjects just to give proper defination to explain this world so...final god and scientists thinking exist...bcz they are inter connected with eachother......:)

| Side: God
1 point

Nothing can be created by a theory, so the debate itself is phrased incorrectly. I believe that the Bible is not to be taken literally, much like poetry. If you look at the story of creation in that sense, you see that the order in which everything formed is correct and that God existing in nothing and creating everything allows entirely for the Big Bang Theory to be correct on every millisecond that it describes. God has ever since guided all of the matter he created to form in the manner he decided upon. This is my interpretation of the Christian faith, and I feel it is a logical conclusion to be reached from the given evidence.

| Side: God
1 point

god is laughing as he has successfully confused you with complex scientific calcutations of evolution of the world. :D he is waiting and seeing what more answers are you going to find by ways of researching. Still more beautiful fact is tht he himself empowered you to go researching.

| Side: God
1 point

Okay, you say that the universe was created by the big bang. Answer these questions:

What made the matter in the universe?

The helium and the hydrogen atoms.

What made the hydrogen and helium atoms?

The Big Bang.

What made the big bang?

Let's take the oscillating theory but what made the oscillating theory?

Until someone finds the answer to all these 'whats', GOD MADE THE UNIVERSE.

| Side: God
Cynical(1926) Disputed
1 point

One question is able to trump your entire argument: What made God?

| Side: Big bang theory
ChuckHades(3194) Disputed
1 point

What made the matter in the universe?

Matter is just energy in disguise. And the law of conservation says that energy cannot be created or destroyed. Thus the energy may always have existed, in different forms. The truth is that we don't know though.

What made the hydrogen and helium atoms?

Hydrogen condensed from the initial energy, and helium came via nuclear fusion in the first protostars.

What made the big bang?

Probably quantum fluctuations in the inflationary model.

what made the oscillating theory?

Scientists.

Until someone finds the answer to all these 'whats', GOD MADE THE UNIVERSE.

Until someone finds the answer to all these 'whats', ALLAH MADE THE UNIVERSE.

Until someone finds the answer to all these 'whats', ZEUS MADE THE UNIVERSE.

Until someone finds the answer to all these 'whats', KRISHNA MADE THE UNIVERSE.

Until someone finds the answer to all these 'whats', THE FLYING SPAGHETTI MONSTER MADE THE UNIVERSE.

| Side: Big bang theory
1 point

Before the moon was explored, there were concerns about the depth of meteoric dust on the surface of the moon. Space is full of dust and it falls on the moon and the earth as we travel through space. If the world and the moon were billions of years old, one would expect a layer of dust over 150 feet, but when we got to the moon, the dust only measured to be about an inch deep. Given the measured influx of dust currently, that would account for a few thousand years.

| Side: God
1 point

Before the moon was explored, there were concerns about the depth of meteoric dust on the surface of the moon. Space is full of dust and it falls on the moon and the earth as we travel through space. If the world and the moon were billions of years old, one would expect a layer of dust over 150 feet, but when we got to the moon, the dust only measured to be about an inch deep. Given the measured influx of dust currently, that would account for a few thousand years. According to the bible, the world is about 6000 thousands old (this makes sense) but according to the science is billions of years. How is that possible?

| Side: God
1 point

If the big bang actually works, why don't u all people go make another big bang and make a new world? This place is kind of polluted.

| Side: God
1 point

The Big Bang theory gets explained in the Quran that was revealed more then 1400 years ago..

| Side: God
1 point

because anythingthat has been designed needs a designer. So if the world is designed then God must have designed it.

| Side: God
1 point

Scientists who make money by writing books and conducting research tend to support the big bang theory and many other therories because there well being depends on it.

Please Note however that these scientists only have theories they do not have proof. Every few years someone comes along with a new theory and find ever smaller particles not known previously new planets , stars , and the list goes on. The truth is that scientists knowledge compared to the knowledge needed to make the universe we live in , is but a spec of sand on the beach man will never know all or even half the answers

I support the idea that the world was designed and therefore there must have been a designer (its a good Job that Health and Safety wasnt around at the time as it would have been prevented)

| Side: God
1 point

Scientists who make money by writing books and conducting research tend to support the big bang theory and many other therories because their well being depends on it.

Please Note however that these scientists only have theories they do not have proof. Every few years someone comes along with a new theory and find ever smaller particles not known previously new planets , stars , and the list goes on. The truth is that scientists knowledge compared to the knowledge needed to make the universe we live in , is but a spec of sand on the beach, man will never know all or even half the answers

I support the idea that the world was designed and therefore there must have been a designer (its a good Job that Health and Safety wasnt around at the time as it would have been prevented)

| Side: God
1 point

A creative force we call God. God is merely a word a title given as a descriptive word for creator.

| Side: God
1 point

think about it god made the big bang and thats how it happened

| Side: God

I cannot prove either but my belief is that God created the world and everything in it. The scientific theory speaks to the universe but not the things contained within it. Man is a remarkable and complex creature as is most every other thing that roams the earth. I cannot believe the Big Bang theory created all we have. In the end it doesn't really matter who or what created any of it. What matters is what we do with what is given us.

| Side: God
jessald(1909) Disputed
4 points

"I cannot believe the Big Bang theory created all we have."

Not directly, no. The Big Bang was just the initial event that set up the circumstances under which further complexity could develop.

Why is that so hard to believe? If I may speculate, I believe that your (and other religious people's) difficulty in accepting this idea stems from the religious indoctrination beaten into your head since childhood. You have an emotional attachment to Christianity that prevents you from evaluating things clearly.

"In the end it doesn't really matter who or what created any of it."

I agree with you to an extent there. But problems come up when Christians (and other religious people) do stuff like blocking stem cell research or preventing evolution from being taught in schools. If people would accept that belief in God is irrational, these problems would go away.

| Side: Big Bang
2 points

Hello jessald! These "theories" have been argued throughout the decades and in the end, no one has absolute proof for any of it. It's total conjecture on all ends. I believe in God. You believe in science. Both of us are entitled to our beliefs, however, when it comes down to someone telling me I've been brainwashed by religious indoctrination or that I cannot evaluate things clearly because of an emotional attachment to Christianity, I'm afraid I must differ and take grave exception to the remark.

I happen to be a Christian who believes in stem cell research and have no problem teaching the sciences or the theory of evolution in schools. I also believe in the 10 Commandments, the Golden Rule and the teachings of Jesus Christ, no matter who he was or was not. While I do not believe my faith in God is irrational in any way I am a person who is open to all ideologies and ideas whether or not they are based in religion or science. I, for one, didn't buy the entire ticket book simply because I was born into a Christian home.

| Side: God
3 points

To Kuklapolitan: your argument towards this debate is very much appreciated. Your argument states nothing but what you absolutely believe. it states the truth. that is what this debate is all about

| Side: God

Thank you so very much, that was kind of you to say unknown91 and much appreciated.

| Side: God

Well I liked it thief

| Side: God
0 points

God caused the big bang silly

| Side: Big Bang
jessald(1909) Disputed
2 points

Where's your evidence?

| Side: Big bang theory
0 points

God created the Big Bang (possibly)...

| Side: God
-1 points

i belive god theroy dont ask my why but i do

| Side: God
iamdavidh(4850) Disputed
6 points

Yeah, it's better not to ask questions when you believe in God. They don't like that very much.

| Side: God
iamdavidh(4850) Disputed
2 points

Ugh.

Why does my tag say God?

I would never use that tag in a debate like this. Trickery I say... or maybe a miracle O.o

Even more so disputing my "God" tag leaves me with a "God" tag automatically...

Miracles never cease, but I can fix a miracle... there, tag changed.

Let none be fooled into thinking I hear voices in my head or see dead people on toast.

| Side: Big Bang
-1 points

as a guy said MAN cant create anny thing from nothing

| Side: God
jessald(1909) Disputed
5 points

"man can't create anything from nothing"

True, but that doesn't mean God did it.

The fact is nobody knows how the universe came to be.

Saying that God did it is just giving an easy answer to a hard question.

| Side: Big bang theory
xaeon(1073) Disputed
4 points

Aaaaaand, what exactly has that got to do with anything?

| Side: Big bang theory
Tamisan(890) Disputed
3 points

If "man" can't create anything from nothing, what empirical evidence indicates that anyone/thing can? Barring any such evidence, I'd say that no ONE can create anything from nothing. Therefore if there IS a god, s/he must have come from SOMETHING. And so must the universe.

| Side: Something from nothing
2 points

B%^ you got me good >.< then what created that created god?

| Side: Big bang theory
BarrettBrown(32) Disputed
3 points

I'll have to dig up some old textbooks on this one, but I do not believe that the big bang is attributed to man, which is why the universe has not yet overtaken its intended budget.

| Side: God
2 points

"I do not believe that the big bang is attributed to man"

/facepalm

Seeing as how humans didn't evolve until billions of years after the universe was created, I think it's fairly safe to say man was not responsible for the big bang.

| Side: Big bang theory
-1 points

another problem is that people are deciding between big bang and god... the two most elementary theories out there.

what happened to infinite universe or ultimate energy? at least it took philosophy and logic to figure that shit out.

| Side: God
jessald(1909) Disputed
1 point

Well, really the Big Bang doesn't have anything to do with the origin of the universe. It's just a simple fact that the universe is expanding and therefore must be expanding away from a central point.

God could have caused the Big Bang, ten dimensional space rocks could've caused it, there could be an infinite universe, ultimate energy, whatever.

The key point is that 1) The Big Bang is a fact and 2) It's impossible to say what caused it.

| Side: Big bang theory
-1 points

How is it possible for a bang to create itself from nothing? Something or someone has to create a bang.

There are so many amazing things in this world that are next to impossible to explain, too intricate to be haphazardly put together. A creative genius had to be behind the scenes orchestrating our universe. This being is our God. He created the four chambered heart that beats non-stop in the average person billions of beats during a lifetime. He created animals that have certain adaptations in order to survive in their natural habitat. And the gloriously beautiful things, like a gorgeous sunset with several different hues of orange, yellow and pink, so inspiring that it takes your breath away. I think that only a loving, omnipotent God could create the world we live in with all its complexities and intricacies.

| Side: Trying to explain the unexplainable
jessald(1909) Disputed
2 points

In the main part of your argument, you are basically reciting the argument from design. The argument from poor design is a strong counter to this:

1. A loving, omnipotent God would create organisms that have optimal design.

2. Organisms have features that are suboptimal.

3. Therefore, God either did not create these organisms or is not loving and omnipotent.

One example of poor design: In human females, the birth canal passes through the pelvis. If an infant's head is too big they will not fit and before c-sections death for the mother was the usual result. There are many, many other examples of poor design.

Coming back to the beginning of your argument:

"How is it possible for a bang to create itself from nothing? Something or someone has to create a bang."

It's true that something can't come from nothing, so for the universe to begin there must have been some force behind it. However, this initial force is completely beyond our understanding. There's no reason to assume it was intelligent.

Also, the universe did not necessarily begin, it may have simply always existed, perhaps going through an infinite bang / crunch cycle.

| Side: Big bang theory
geoff(741) Disputed
1 point

'How is it possible for a bang to create itself from nothing?'

We don't know, so let's find out. Assertions without facts and evidence retard our growth.

| Side: Big bang theory
-1 points

I'm in primary school just to make sure u know!

Firstly, I believe that God has made the Earth in 7 days!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My reasons are that the Bible and the Q'uran say's that God said let there be light! Because we'r talking about the Q'uran I just want to say im muslim! back to my conversation... Against this argument scientists say (such as Charles Darwin or Einstein) That there was this huge powerful explosion which made the Earth, moon and sun. As a contribution, I feel that God blew life into humans against this argument once again... Scientist believe (such as bla bla!!) That humans have evolved. But we're talking about the creation of the world, so I just want to say that there must of been something behind this huge force and that can only be GOD understood!!!

Thank you for reading! I hope you've enjoyed

and learned something with my argument

NO QUESTIONS THANK YOU!!!

| Side: God
-1 points

I'm in primary school just to make sure u know!

Firstly, I believe that God has made the Earth in 7 days!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My reasons are that the Bible and the Q'uran say's that God said let there be light! Because we'r talking about the Q'uran I just want to say im muslim! back to my conversation... Against this argument scientists say (such as Charles Darwin or Einstein) That there was this huge powerful explosion which made the Earth, moon and sun. As a contribution, I feel that God blew life into humans against this argument once again... Scientist believe (such as bla bla!!) That humans have evolved. But we're talking about the creation of the world, so I just want to say that there must of been something behind this huge force and that can only be GOD understood!!!

Thank you for reading! I hope you've enjoyed

and learned something with my argument

NO QUESTIONS THANK YOU!!!

| Side: God
einhander(19) Disputed
1 point

finish your primary school first. then come back and argue.

try to read something useful, instead of just the bible or quran.

| Side: Big bang theory
-2 points
xaeon(1073) Disputed
4 points

Firstly, you're assuming. And we know what the old saying says about assuming things, right?

Secondly, the Big Bang did have a force regulating it; the second law of thermodynamics. The second law of thermodynamics states that the entropy of an isolated system which is not in equilibrium will tend to increase over time, approaching a maximum value at equilibrium. But I'm sure you already knew that, right?

Hurray for science!

| Side: Big bang theory
ta9798(310) Disputed
2 points

how exactly does the big bang theory need god in order to work? What needs to be regulated? sorry for my ignorance but i am very curious.

from what i remember learning the universe was in a vary dense form supposedly before the big bang, and thus possibly a chemical reaction could be initiated by an increase of temperature that could certainly produce the big bang.

if we must ask what came before the big bang, like what was the beginning, than shouldn't we also ask what came before god? i mean if you can't let it go that things could have just existed in a simple form and with great lengths of time become something else, than why can you accept that god just existed without something before god creating god?

| Side: Big bang theory
jessald(1909) Disputed
2 points

You don't need an intelligent designer to explain the big bang. Why do you think one is necessary?

Any external force could have resulted in the creation of our universe -- and that force was not necessarily intelligent. For example, the big bang could've been caused by two cosmic chucks of ten dimensional space crashing together.

The fact is, questions about what came before the big bang are impossible to answer. The laws that govern our own universe probably don't even apply. Saying that God did it without presenting any evidence is just foolish.

| Side: Big bang theory
iamdavidh(4850) Disputed
1 point

Wow, you're right Pyg. I never thought of it that way. Using science to try and figure stuff out - leading to the Big Bang theory - that's preschool shit. Not like the big magic daddy in the sky theory at all. You must be some kind of intellectual, with your well founded opinions and what not. I feel so inadequate replying to one such as yourself...

| Side: God
-2 points
jessald(1909) Disputed
5 points

Atheists don't believe the universe was created by "mere coincidence", we just don't think that God did it. Nobody knows how the universe was created.

And the complexity of the universe emerges from relatively simple, compounded elemental reactions.[1] Intelligent design just doesn't hold water.

"substantiated by the Bible which has for long been reliable standing the tests of time, man and science"

This part is just crap. The Bible has fared quite poorly against science. Or do you believe in the Garden of Eden?

[1] thanks Mahollinder ;)

| Side: Big bang theory
xaeon(1073) Disputed
5 points

Firstly, it's not really an argument. The Big Bang theory is pretty much the definitive explanation for the beginning of the universe. What caused the explosion is yet unknown, but to simply say "it was god" without any evidence to back that up is foolish.

Now then, let's get onto the point about the universe being so complex, impossible, and other such unsubstantiated claims. I'm sorry that I have to keep bringing this up, but obviously everyone and their mother missed the science class that explained the second law of thermodynamics.

The second law of thermodynamics states that the entropy of an isolated system which is not in equilibrium will tend to increase over time, approaching a maximum value at equilibrium. Order (the perceived complexity of the universe you speak of) is most likely to occur in a closed system which is far from equilibrium. When a closed system is in the equilibrium state, its entropy has reached a maximum value. The entropy of the closed system cannot increase further. Hence, there is no room to compensate for the entropy decrease of a local system within the closed system unless it is accompanied by an entropy increase in a neighboring local system. By contrast, if a closed system is far from equilibrium, its entropy will increase dramatically, which can compensate for a substantial entropy decrease of a local system. Thus, ordered structures are more likely to be created from a non-equilibrium state than an equilibrium state. The Big Bang theory backs up this view of the world. The Big Bang creates an initial universe which contains an enormously high energy density and is extremely far from equilibrium. In order to reach an equilibrium state, the universe expanded rapidly, resulting in dramatic increase in entropy. This compensate perfectly for the entropy decrease due to the formation of ordered structures such as galaxies, stars, planets, life on Earth, etc.

Or, you know, it could just be god?

And I won't even begin to get into your final point about the bible's reliability.

| Side: Big Bang
-2 points
14 points

If you're talking about the earth, then neither. The big bang theory deals with the beginning of the universe, not specifically the formation of planets. The earth was formed by gravitational forces in a nebulous cloud of dust and gas that formed a star then coalesced into a number of planets around the sun. We can deduce the formation of the earth to the mechanics of natural forces, therefore god doesn't enter into the equation (if you keep to Occam's razor.)

Now, the question of the universe's beginning is a much more interesting one for this topic. The big bang theory is gaining more and more evidence to support it, but even it does not explain where the singularity originated from, only that the universe began as the singularity, and it expanded. Science is ever evolving, and we are gaining more knowledge about the workings of the universe every day. We may yet one day discover the origins of the singularity, or we may become extinct before we find out the truth. Either way, I don't see much of a reason to assume a "god" was involved, because that assumption is made to fill in a gap of knowledge, rather than finding hard evidence and then deducing the explanation from that (like science does).

The problem with the god explanation is that, in most contexts, god is something beyond physical existence, beyond comprehension, and beyond explanation. It cannot be comprehended where it exists, how it exists, what form it takes, etc. Therefore it's assumed that this being that was pulled from someone's nether regions created the universe because, well, I said so. That's not a very plausible explanation. We've witnessed the "god done did it" assumption be rendered moot time and time again when science discovers the way something works that was previously thought to be the work of a god. Do I know that there was not a god involved? Of course not; but saying "I don't know; let's find out" is a much more logical step than saying "I assume it's god, so let's move on."

| Side: Planetary formation
1 point

Good call. Saying the Earth was created due to gravity, from the cloud of dust at the begining of our Universe is kind of nit-picking since the dust got there due the Big Bang, but good info.

On your comments on god:

There's a branch of the Catholic faith called Jesuits, and one of those guys, Saint Anselm, actually came up with a pretty complex theory about god. It's called the Ontological Theory. The premise being - and it's more complex than this, but basically:

- Man cannot creat something from nothing.

That is, every idea you have, no matter how creative you think it is, comes directly from things you've observed somehow. Like try to think of an animal that doesn't exist, five tails, scales, fly's without wings, whatever. No matter how wild it gets every piece comes from something you've observed. There's nothing "created."

- Man has thought of the idea of "something than which nothing greater can exist." It's important to the proof that it doesn't say "all powerful." Just that nothing more powerful may exist. And we call this god.

- Since man has no experience of something than which nothing greater can exist, than we must have knowledge of an actual god, and he must exist. Otherwise we never would have thought of him.

We give "him" a name, and make him look like us in our heads because we have no other knowledge, but the idea that we can think of the concept - he argues - means he must be.

I would argue this proves he doesn't exist, because actually we can't imagine "something than which nothing greater exist." We can only say it. Go ahead, try imagining it, bet you can then imagine something else that can kick "something than which nothing greater can exist's" ass. Proving you never imagined it at all.

All that is just to say that not every theory of god is just filler. Some people do make an actual effort. Just not these crazy evangalists that keep popping up, spewing their stupidity on here.

| Side: Jesuit

Careful with the Jesuits; they're a wily bunch, too clever by half, and not at all adverse to obscurantism. If I were the pope (and, incidentally, I am not), I would never have allowed them to operate under the Vatican banner. Or, it may be more accurate to say that the popes were never allowed to stop them from operating as such.

| Side: Jesuit
65Marcus(5) Disputed
1 point

Sorry but your not taking your theory back far enough and you are making statements that cannot be proven. Please start with absolutely nothing. No space, No materials. no gravity. Even a vacuum is something. The universe is material and materials have a beginning and end. 0 =0 = 0 IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO PRODUCE ANYTHING FROM NOTHING WITHOUT A MIRACLE. The day the quantum theory that you can is proven, that person that proves it will become almighty and god. If you give it enough thought there can never be a beginning or end. We made amazing discoveries in the last century about things unseen that man had never discovered before. What is the problem in considering God when after 150 years of research world wide into evolution it is still an unproven theory although very cleverly put together. God is Spirit and not material, does not need a beginning and end, The universe and creation is put together much more cleverly complex and interdependent than our small minds will ever comprehend. There are so many things starring us in the face we cannot fathom. There are too many creatures with irreducible complexity to imagine it happened by chance. Even the simplest cell has enough information to plan manufacture and fly a Jumbo jet. Try explaining something easy like a butterfly in evolutionary terms. "How did it happen step by step"? an egg caterpillar a mush in a chrysalis into a beautiful butterfly. There are millions of examples of the amazing power of an Almighty God. I will continue at another time. Please don't be so over wise not to consider God.

| Side: God
1 point

According to the laws of thermodynamics, neither materials nor energy need a beginning nor an end.

A true vacuum is not something; it's the matter equivalent of the quantity zero, a term we use to describe nothingness. True vacuum really is nothing, more or less by definition.

To be consistent with what we've observed, the big bang theory is not responsible for the creation of all matter, but rather, is the event responsible for the conditions of the universe we are able to observe. The matter and energy contained within the big bang and distributed throughout the universe would, therefore, have been present prior to the big bang.

Of course, this doesn't necessarily have to be the case either; even now, we're able to create matter from nothing in a laboratory, though it carries a high energy cost and is generally unstable; it appears that the second law of thermodynamics is more of a global condition that can be violated locally and temporarily. As such, your statement 'IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO PRODUCE ANYTHING FROM NOTHING WITHOUT A MIRACLE' is false, unless you're calling science a miracle, which I wouldn't have a problem with.

You're right only in saying that God, should one exist, does not need a beginning and end. You are wrong in stating that it is otherwise with matter and energy. In fact, your entire argument here is based on premises that are demonstrably false.

| Side: Big bang theory
ThePyg(6751) Disputed
0 points

good one. but, many theories and discoveries were made in the search for "God". maybe there are people out there who decide on God (without trying to find out more) because they're not scientists or researchers. there are plenty of those types on both spectrums. they take a thoery and believe it without further research. can you blame them?

some people believe in the big bang theory and don't know shit about it. is that wrong? not really, that's just what they decided is right.

| Side: God
4 points

Look, it's simple. The universe is expanding -- like a balloon. This is a fact. It's called Hubble's Law.

Now if the universe is expanding, what does that imply? It implies the universe must have started as a single point. So you see, the big bang is obviously true.

The only question is, "Was the big bang caused by God?" And that question is impossible to answer. But seeing how God is just one of an infinite number of possible explanations, I'd say God most probably was not responsible.

| Side: Big bang theory
0 points

Well put. It's also worth noting that the universe probably wasn't created by a theory: neither the big bang theory or the "god theory". It was probably either a big bang or god. Or the more recently proposed big bounce theory could also be a candidate.

| Side: Big bang theory
0 points

Sensible! And nothing has ever been created by a theory, thank you for pointing this out. And why does it have to be one or the other? Is no other way viable? Are these the ONLY possible beginnings of the universe? Of course not.

| Side: Big bang theory

Neither, really. The big bang theory doesn't explain how the universe began. It explains what happened immediately after it began. Common misconception.

| Side: Big bang theory
2 points

The big bang because we have some evidence that the big bang actually happened.

| Side: Big bang theory
1 point

This may never be answered for a certainty but I would think that osmethign big happend long ago. Why create al lthese palnets for nothing and stras for nothing is there is nothing there? one reason I tihnk we aren't alone out there.

| Side: Big Bang
1 point

Evolution as Described by the Second Law of Thermodynamics

Supporting Evidence: Evolution as Described by the Second Law of Thermodynamics (www.physorg.com)
| Side: second law of thermodynamics
1 point

There really is no absolute proof that there is a god, therefore the big bang theory is the only valid answer.

Sure there may be books like the bible, but is it really true?

| Side: Trying to explain the unexplainable
1 point

The internet is a virtually unlimited repository of information. And yet very few people here actually bothered to look up Big Bang on Wikipedia. (Also look up the scientific definition of "theory" while you're at it.) Anyway, the Big Bang is a collection of enormous observational /fact/ combined with mathematical /theory/ that creates a history of the universe from nearly the beginning of cosmological time. So saying you don't believe in it is saying that you don't believe there's a tree behind you - if you turn around you'll see it.

Before the Big Bang, it is true that physics changes a lot, but it still follows laws. It is philosophically debatable (look up "Anthropic Argument") whether we can have empirical evidence to support mathematical theories of how the Big Bang occurred, but nonetheless there are models that create the Big Bang using proven physics without any preconditions of existence (so tried-and-true physics does show how something can come from nothing - look up "Chaotic Inflation" and "Quantum Fluctuation"). The universe doesn't behave like billiard balls - quantum mechanics, relativity, and chaos were the three revolutions of the 20th century that show that your intuition of how the world works is completely wrong, and the truth is far more elegant - and it's all /fact/.

Supporting Evidence: Wikipedia's Big Bang (en.wikipedia.org)
| Side: Big bang theory

The Big Bang Theory is logical, and, it seems to me, scientifically correct. To assume that the entire universe was created by a single being, immortal or otherwise, I think is absolutely absurd, not to mention naive. Think about it: The universe created by one guy, everything falls into place because of him. Or, the universe was created by one massive explosion of celestial matter, and everything needed to evolve before things really began to click. What makes more sense, what is more logical? Science, logic and fact are the guiding principles of my life. I do have faith in supernatural powers, and immortals that have the ability to control the happenings on Earth, but I'm sorry, the thought of the entire universe, which will expand forever and ever, created by one single person? I don't think so.

| Side: Big bang theory
1 point

Sure...Everyone is bewildered as to whether or not the Earth was created by the Big Bang Theory, but how can we be so sure being that nobody existed during that time to personally witness this event taking place? Was the Earth really created according this theory? or did it exist long before mankind even made its first steps? How can we be so sure?

| Side: Big bang theory
1 point

I believe both.

The big bang theory happened. Everything is sort of drifting apart and had to have started somewhere. IT makes since to me.

| Side: Both
1 point

I see quite simple. We can document, observe, and record the universe and most of its processes. From there, we can go on to calculate and at very minimum reproduce on paper these processes, including most of which happened at the Big Bang. There is no residual evidence of God in the universe. The most documentation of any God is in a few thousand year old books that were written by men. While there may be holes in cosmology, just like the evolution theory, it is the best and most recorded process we have. Spirituality has no such documentation or processes. Scientific documentation trumps theological rhetoric in this manner.

| Side: Big bang theory
1 point

OK. So. I think that the "theory" that god created the universe/world only "stands" for christan/jewish people. There is actually some evidence that the "big bang" created the world. Show me some proof that "god" created the world/universe. I'm christian but this "theory" that people are creating about he creating the world on 7 days or whatever is just total rubbish,bullshit, crap.. I could go on and on but I have no intensions of wasting my and your time.

| Side: Big bang theory

As of right now, the closest thing that humans can confidently say that the Big Bang Theory created the universe instead of man made figure, God.

| Side: Big bang theory
1 point

I don't have any links at the moment, but you may want look into the m theory. Basically, it states that our universe was made by two colliding universes, a rather common phenomena.

| Side: Big bang theory
1 point

Hey guys, for centuries people have looked at the formation as either God driven or through the big bang theory; however, I have somewhat of a middle ground approach to the topic. I am Christian and I believe that the big bang occurred and that was the driving force behind it. There had to be some sort of starting force to bring about such an explosion and God could have been that force.

| Side: Big bang theory
1 point

Looking at the errors of understanding (2 of them!) contained in the debate title, I can infer that the person who posted this debate does not have a clear knowledge base about either the big bang or even science in general.

Error 1: The "world" is not said to be created by the Big Bang, at least not directly. Concerning the creation of the Earth, it is typically linked to aggregation, most commonly using the "Stellar Nebula Model." However our actual system formed, it was several billions of years after the Big Bang.

Error 2: Theories do not create anything except discussion. The "Big Bang Theory" is a mental construct erected to try to understand and link numerous observed facts. That is all any theory is intended to do, but for a theory to exist, the fact that it is describing must exist first.

This might sound like little more than an argument of semantics, and in essence it basically is, but it is important to know what you are saying in order to have a useful debate.

Finally, this is a false dichotomy, unless you believe that an omnipotent God would be unable to create a Big Bang effect.

| Side: Big bang theory
1 point

there is actually more proof to the bigt bang than there is about God!!!! we are in a part of time where the more you talk about religion the more you start to realize that it is a great story, kind of like Santa or the easter bunny. but thats all it is a story. if religion was real then why would god allow humanity to kill, destroy and degenerate each other in gods name. humas have done evil and ruthless things in the name of someone we will never ever meet or talk to or even exist. yet that is acceptible. then we have science that has deffinate proof that there is more to look at than what has been told of us to look at for the last 6000years. i love this arguement because all those religious people are fun to talk to and they get so angry at anyone how does not have the same views as them, which im sure that "god" would really approve of that.

| Side: Big bang theory
1 point

I believe in the Big Bang and I also believe in the idea that something CAN come from nothing. It is complicated but if you want to see what i mean, look up "A Universe From Nothing by Lawrence Krauss". Let me ask religous people this in curiosity, is there any explanation that you have as to why God can "come from nothing"?

| Side: Big bang theory
maisie97(4) Disputed
1 point

In answer to your question, it is simply because we have faith in a supreme being who is transcendant, omnipotent and beyond our understanding. He can do anything, is the theory.

| Side: God
1 point

If the world was never here before it was then how was a person alive? on no planet! that's the exact thing A person could never be alive with no planets remember the big bang theory is based on the sun some of it explode then over billions of years it started forming the earth it self and other planets to then more billions of years later once it was formed the plants started growing the gravity started to form on the planets and that's the science way!

| Side: Big bang theory
maisie97(4) Disputed
1 point

But God is not a person? The God of Classical Theism (of which the majority speaks) is transcendant and beyond human understanding. S/He is anthropomorphised so that we can understand better yet is not human therefore 'surviving before the big bang' is irrelevant.

| Side: God
1 point

neither is true.

You know how the science teachers tell you that ALL scientist believe the Big Bang Theory made the world? Well no they actually do not believe in that. They believe that aliens created us. And why would they say they believed in the other? Because they dont want us people to freak out and if we would find out then there would be crime amongst us because people are "dumb" and would freak out like i said. So going back, we are like an "experiment" to them, they want to find out what is in our minds and how it actually works. We dont even know too and since they are waaaaay smarter than us... ._. So yes that is why they havnt taken over since they are much more powerful than us. And thats why we are abducted because they take feedback and study us. So aliens created us and someone else created them and it just keeps going but is there a stop?

| Side: Big bang theory
1 point

Humans created god.

think yourself carefully and u will understand it...........

for more

contact manoj 919059743819

| Side: Big bang theory

You're kidding right?

| Side: Big bang theory
1 point

god isn't real of course gfggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg

| Side: Big bang theory
0 points

Big bang theory all round!! if you think about this really hard, what evidence does anyone have that god exists? what evidence is their that the bible was correct??

watch the da vinci code and it releases some insite into some major secrets that the catholics do not want the world to know about.

| Side: Seriously big bang theory
borme(653) Disputed
5 points

The DaVinci code is a fiction story, I'm not sure how it helps to "prove" the Big Bang Theory.

| Side: God
0 points

More the actual event than the theory, but yeah, the Big Bang. The science is pretty solid. Everything fits to around 1/100 of a second before the explosion, it gets a bit scetchy before that though, so who knows. Maybe I'm the asshole and it's God's fault and I'm going to hell. Oh well fuck it, I'm sticking to my guns. Hear that God!

9 minute explanation that I kinda like

| Side: Big Bang
0 points

we havent got proof that god existed

| Side: Big bang theory
maisie97(4) Disputed
1 point

We haven't got 100% proof that the Big Bang happened either, that's why it's called a THEORY.

| Side: God
0 points

we descend into an infinite regression of inquiry that ultimately leads us nowhere and does not increase our understanding of anything. "my vote is god purely because sometimes, you need to think outside the square you live in right?"

Isn't that precisely what we did?

Supporting Evidence: testking 70-291 (www.real-testking.com)
| Side: Big bang theory


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