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Debate Score:104
Arguments:121
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 What Purpose Did The Cross and Resurrection Accomplish? (100)

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KNHav(1957) pic



What Purpose Did The Cross and Resurrection Accomplish?

Whether you believe or don't believe can you explain the purpose of this story. What is its meaning. We know to bring Salvation, but what is the Mystery behind its Design, what work is thought to have occurred through this story?

Please be a little serious and thoughtful, I want to know what you think was the reason behind it all. 

Even if you don't believe in it, tell me, what is the meaning? What is meant to have occured?
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2 points

redemption and eternal life for those who believe ... 1 John 2:2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins ..... the resurrection was God's AMEN

2 points

To reach the unreachable, and then provide a sacrifice to show that God Cares about the human condition. so much so that he took the time to live it and die it.

1 point

The Cross and the Resurrection is the center point of the ENTIRE bible. The gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. So to answer your question The Cross and Resurrection is the reason we can have eternal life with Christ. That's what it Accomplished.

1 point

Mint_tea(236) Said:

The literal purpose of the cross was a form of torture and crucifixion, causing the poor person tied or nailed to it to meet death in a brutal and terrible way.

The spiritual version is vastly different though the roots are near the same. An intersection between Gods love and justice. Depends on which version you hold but both are truths.

Mint_tea(4061) Clarified
1 point

I wasn't wrong. I think it's going to depend on what your belief and interpretation is. But I welcome other ideas on its meaning, which is why I clicked on this thread.

KNHav(1957) Clarified
1 point

I wasn't saying you were wrong, I just posted it into the debate, so I could see it with the others

It was bloodshed to redeem humanities sins- but why is the price for sins bloodshed?

luckin(176) Clarified
1 point

Its because the wages of sin is death. Because of that, Jesus had to die to make us right with God

ironskillet(220) Disputed
1 point

Why would god want to kill people who don't do what he says? Seems a little extreme to me.

Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

The blood is a sacrifice to cover your sins, to temporarily appease God's wrath against your sin. The first blood sacrifice was made and taken by God Himself when he took the skins of animals to cover Adam and Eve so they could be under the blood of the sacrifice, covered, temporarily excused from execution when they broke God's law.

God promised that He Himself would become that blood sacrifice to pay for our sins so we don't have to pay in Hell. Jesus is referred to as the Lamb of God, the innocent One who came down from Heaven, the Son sent by the Father conceived of the Holy Spirit to be the lamb of God.

The blood of animals or your own blood cannot redeem you. God's own blood is enough to pay in full to redeem you from the curse of sin and death which you are sold under. In order that He may be just in holding sinners in Hell, He paid their price with His own blood to redeem them from the penalty of their sins which is Hell. Believe on Jesus in His resurrection, repent of your sin, and ask God in Jesus' name to save you from Hell, receiving Jesus by faith as your Savior and because you are approaching God on His terms He will hear and accept you and Jesus will come make your heart to be His throne giving you a new heart which hates sin and loves God knowing His kingdom is your home.

The Old Rugged Cross formed the basic design from which the Harrier Jump Jet evolved.

That was the outstanding aircraft which proved to be so successful for the British in the Falklands wars against the Argentinians.

The resurrection was the inspiration behind the song,

''Pick Yourself Up, Dust Yourself down, and Start All Over Again''

Ah, how Fred Astaire danced magnificently to that ageless song.

How the Cross and the resurrection added to life's rich tapestry centuries after they they were made famous.

Some people think that the cross symbolizes the suffering and sacrifice Jesus made so we, mere sinful mortals would be forgiven for our transgressions and that the resurrection was clear evidence of the immortality of Jesus and therefore proof that he was indeed the Son of God.

Others assert that the crucifix is emblematic of the Christian Faith the scriptures of which would be meaningless without the resurrection.

1 point

It is meant to mean that God loved mankind so much as to experience the worst of suffering via his son at crucifixion, and that experience by a God alleviated sin and further enhanced God's compassion so that we too can live forever if we only believe.

What it actually means is Jesus Christ was a human who preached different views than the dominant religions and cultures of his day and ultimately was executed for it. Then from his small band of followers his story was spun to include he came back from the dead thus proving yes he is a God. And then over the span of an entire century after that the persecuted followers gradually wrote scripture after scripture explaining what it all meant, gradually getting grander and grander in what Christ was, and building clauses into it to mandate and elevate their religion above all others.

I know you don't agree.

The cross and resurrection story turned a human killed for daring to differ into a god. And a century of further embellishment turned it into a life mandate that you better follow or you'll burn in hell.

Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

yeah, sure, Christians enjoyed being thrown to the lions and burned as human torches after they watched their friends and loved ones suffer the same fate, so they made up fake stories of Jesus being God and promising to return as the King of all Kings so they felt better when they were being tortured and killed for being Christians who refused to bow to Caesar and call him god.

\

Grenache(6103) Clarified
2 points

People stand up for beliefs of all kinds. But it doesn't automatically make their belief right.

Hey, I'm fine that you and others believe what you do. To each their own. My only problem is that you yourself are not fine with anyone having a different belief from your own. Whether it's a different religion, or no religion, or science. You are on a constant campaign to promote your belief and mock any other.

sylynn(626) Disputed
1 point

Makes a lot more sense than the idea that an all powerful and all loving god, instead of simply forgiving those he claims to "love", or simply say "believe in me and I will give you life", decided he needed to kill his son (which since they are said to be one would technically be suicide) in order to simply forgive. Why? Because a the ultimate "sacrifice" was needed. Why was this sacrifice needed? Because he said so.

1 point

Enslavement, we are born into bondage, its like we are death row waiting for the final sentence to be carried out.

The law binds us to death, because the only way to fullfill it is

to be perfect from start to finish. Making us all law breakers, in judgement by all of the law.

We have a choice of freedom. In this world we are already slaves. We are born into slavery. Jesus came to set us free. We are enslaved under the claim of the Devil.

Our fall gave him claim, man was made from was dust outside of the Garden. When man fell, he was sent back out from where his dust came from, and to dust man would die and return.

The weight of our sin is crushing. The stone is falling on us. So you either fall onto the stone, and are broken, and set free, released from the binding curse of the dust. The judgement for all Under the law. Or He falls on you, and you are crushed.

It goes back to the prophesy at the fall of man. When God said to the serpent He would put enmity between the serpent's seed, and the woman's Seed, He will wound the serpents head, and he will strike His heal."

Which makes sense if I'm correct about Satan's origin and making a blackhole, since he was the "bright morning" star. Jesus said He saw Satan fall to the earth like lightening, maybe like a star imploding.

So possibly the dirt is mixed with star dust in the ground. That could be what God used to give us free will. Maybe we are the challenge. If we fall the law works against

The star imploding makes sense and I think that is the door to Sheol, or Hell. That's on a shelf. I mention that because, there are things coming to understanding, and are not fully understood yet.

Jesus walked in our shoes, and overcame living a life above the law in a body our body made of dust, placed on those from dust on the grounds claim.

His death nailed the curse under the law, against dust and flesh. And He freed us from the dust under the belly of the snake. We need to take His way, pick up our Crosses and follow through this One and Only Door.

He released us from the dust, and the grave, it was by it's dust we were enslaved. .

He opened up the way for us to escape the curse from under the law, and from under Satan's belly all are cursed and destroyed under the law.

And the accuser is our prosecutor slithering over the dust in the ground. His appetite doesn't cease he is cursed eat dust all of his days.

The one only way is through the cross. The earth quaked and the veil was torn. When He died on the cross He struck a blow down against the ground and wounding the serpent on his head.

This is the reason why Jesus is the Only way. When we say He died to save us, He did it the only way He could for our redemption.

He paid our ransom, and our judgement. He fullfilled our sentence as well. The accuser of the brethern accuses us day and night. But we are made innocent and released from the dust under the belly of the serpent, God has to hold to His own Law.

We were ransomed from sin and death, and if we don't take His Way out to freedom the world is decending into the depth of the pit, the only way out is through Jesus, His cross where we are changed a payment blood for blood life for life, the payment of the law which is the weight of the earth Born Again saving His children from the harsh judgement under the weight and the serpent struck His heal. And he set free the work of flesh curruption being driven to death by a world dictator, who has a fierce appetite for flesh, as he was cursed to eat dust all his days!

You may not realize the control over us by the ruler of this world. We are mere puppets. Whether they scream moral restraint or they are tools of moral depravity, they are tools. Controlled by their passions and lead by their nose. They took control of man, everything that was wrong for man they orchestrated it with cunning manipilulation.

God didn't create this mess, the end of man is the reign of darkness. God knew all, and with His prophesies He put everything man needs for ouur final Salvation. When we are finally raised in a body like His.Like Jesus' who was God in man redeeming us by ruling our bodies of dust and sin and death.

Every action against law drove history to his final end.

But where Satan destroys us like leftover fries, Jesus came to give us hope, in a place where there is no hope. A way to climb out of the gravitational pull, in the blackhole below us, that's name is Sheol.

1 point

The Resurrection of the mortal and fully human rabbi cum political rabble rouser we know of today as Jesus of Nazareth is simply another Bronze Age Hebrew myth.

IF he ever even existed (evidence of a secular nature is indeed scarce, and consists of only brief 2-3 sentence blurbs) Yeshua was just another zealot of those hot-tempered times in First Century Palestine. (read Aza Reslan's excellent book: "Zealot" for a good fell of what it was like back then.)

So..he was fully human and after being dead for three days from being hung on a cross by Roman officials, he could not have possible rose up anywhere. Unless of course his followers exhumed his body. Which is not all that far-fetched.

Any sort of Resurrection was one of a spiritual nature only. And done among his followers. Who might have had a sort of epiphany or religious experience (or so they thought) in the days or weeks after JC's death. A couple of them had an "A-HA!" moment, thinking they now understood his message, and began on their quest to turn JC into a martyr.

(One that was badly needed as a sort of poster boy in their uprising against the Romans and the Pharisees.)

As far as the Cross, it means nothing to me. In fact, I have always thought it to be an absurd and silly symbol of one's faith. And sort of gruesome as well. If I were a Christian I would want a better and more uplifting symbol, like the Mormons' Mustard Seed, for example.

Reminds me of the old joke by Lenny Bruce. He asked, "If the electric chair had been around back then and had been used by the Romans to kill Jesus, would Christians today all be walking around with little electric chairs hanging around their necks?

LOL

LOL more!

SS

Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

So you have no Savior, you are stuck in death, pretending you are stronger than God and fireproof so you can't burn in Hell, and you think you are great for putting on a big stinking show of defying God. Whoopity doo. All cheer for Slap Shot! Woo Woo, Whoopity Dooo!!!!!

LOL.....a tragic comedy

LOL all you can, friend....things won't get any better the way you are going, and God is going to mock you, laugh at your calamity when it comes. Curse God and LOL all you can while you can. Time is short, make it count.

Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

We deserve that cross, Slappy, we deserve to be on that cross. It means nothing to you because you are in denial.

Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

Uprising against the Romans and the Pharisees? Are you kidding? Jews in Judea fighting against the Romans? And when was anybody fighting against the Pharisees?

The only fabricated story is your own, Slappy. Why is it so important to you that everybody believe you are telling the truth about your personal life but you don't care if you fabricate your own version of history making yourself into a FRAUD!?

SlapShot(2607) Clarified
1 point

You don't know about the Jewish revolt in AD 70?

Why does and atheist like me seem to know more about Jewish history during the 1st Century AD than you, a self-rpoclaimed Christian? Hmm...this doesn't seem right, Mr. Saint.

Here is a bit more about that Revolt....

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/revolt.html

Hope this helps. I learned about this stuff years ago. As I have said, my knowledge on the bible and the Jews and the Christians' history is extensive. Please don't take it lightly.

Oh...and here is some stuff on how the Pharisees and Jewish elders were also persecutors of the early Christian movement...

http://truthinhistory.org/jewish-hatred-against-jesus-christ.html

SS

KNHav(1957) Disputed
1 point

What made Saul the harsh murdering persecutor of Christians, turn into an Appostle that fullfilled all the Biblical Prophesies of the Gospel of Jesus going out to all Nations?

Paul didn't get a promotion or pay raise, so why would he choose to go from the persecutor and prosecutor TO the persecuted and prosecuted?

1 point

What made the followers of Marshall Applewhite kill themselves?

KNHav(1957) Disputed
1 point

Yeah 100s of people all had the same "emotional" or "dillusional" experience, all at the same time.

So who is dillusuonal, one who has no reasoning skills, or others that apply common sense?

1 point

I ealier said the cross means notihng to me.

Well, that is not entirely honest and accurate. I admit.

Why?

Because, sometimes it does. Like, when I see somebody wearing a crucifix or somebody has one of those fish on their cars.

What does that mean to me?

It immediately drops that person down a couple notches in my book as far as their credibility and objectivity is concerned. I immediately think they are probably not very well educated, and are hapless victims of indoctrination or delusion. Usually when they were kids.

And being in post grad school, I have always noticed that the more time you spend in an academic environment, the less of those little crosses and fishy's you see.

Hmm...wonder why that is? And wonder why so many convicts seem to find god in prison? And why are the poorest and least-educated states also the ones with the highest percentage of church goers?

And why are the states with the highest atheist populations also the ones with the highest average educational level and the best quality of living?

Seems to me to be an undeniable tie between being religious and being poor and stupid.

SS

http://www.salon.com/2014/03/12/8disturbingtrendsthatrevealthesouthsbatteredpsyche_partner/

KNHav(1957) Disputed
1 point

You are sick, what is in you? Nothing? The earth was dark and void and without form, God said Let Light Be! And God saw it was good! Good, light is good! Why would you want to be empty?

1 point

And god said let there be fruit trees growing without sunlight.

And let there be people who will believe this nonsense.

And he saw that they did believe this nonsense

and it was good...

Saving101(17) Disputed
1 point

Does it concern you to know you are written about in the Bible? How could some one so many years ago know there will be people around who will think like you. Here are a few scriptures that answer your questions. “Let no one deceive himself. If anyone among you seems to be wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, “He catches the wise in their own craftiness”; and again, “The LORD knows the thoughts of the wise, that they are futile.””

‭‭I Corinthians‬ ‭3:18-20‬ “Listen, my beloved brethren: Has God not chosen the poor of this world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him?”

‭‭James‬ ‭2:5‬. “Jesus answered and said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.””

‭‭Luke‬ ‭5:31-32‬. My apologies for not having them in the right order to answer your questions. You see by making yourself full of worldly knowledge you have no room for GODLY knowledge. The poor, least-educated and sinners (convicts) have humbled themselves and ask GOD for help. This is why salvation has come to us. Try something go in a room alone close the door humble yourself and ask GOD for help. You have nothing to lose. You don't even have to tell anyone just keep it between you and him.

1 point

Seeing the evil, should reveal the God.

One reason it does not reveal God, is because our flesh made of dust is familiar with darkness. Light hurts our eyes. When our dust was cursed it was tied down to the ground.

"Dust to dust," "surely you will die" Our flesh took on a nature of curruption. And was put under the jailor's belly, who is the decieving serpent, whose appetite is insatiable for eating dust all his days.

Ever hear or say, “ I'd rather be lied to then know the truth?” We would rather not know, go in with our eyes half open, or closed even.

Why?

Because flesh is under evil imprisonment, flesh feels tied to its captor. We have to look up and understand. It's a dimension that is not comfortable or familiar, as the captor is. It's human nature when in captivity to depend on the one who hold us captive.

And we are one with this, because we are under him, without any escape, except through the Cross and Resurrection.

Jesus walked a life in our cursed dust, then nailed it to a tree, paid ransom with His blood, and raised up out of the dust with a glorified body, so we can follow him out of this Hell hole, and escape the place called Sheol.

To be raised as new creations, who will soon have a body like His.Like, that is not under the belly of the serpent.

Proving that God loves us. If all you knew was Utopia, and God said "I love you" it would be meaningless. After seeing the cross, his love is proven. And it's the same for us. If we had only been in Utopia, God would have no tangible proof that we love him in return. But when you stay faithful to him even in the darkness, now your love has value to him as well. The darkness is what proved our love for one another.