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The existence of a god is an unfounded and undesireable belief. Religion has hitherto brought forth war and greed. We are better off without a god. Further, a god should not be your means of a moral compass, your own mind should be fully capable of discerning right from wrong.
LOL? FORREAL?? Those who don't have God as their moral compass are the ones who are responsible for 99% of crimes committed to humanity.
You're so wrong about this subject.........
LOL on this.
The idea that a depraved book of primitive savagery for the deluded should serve as some sort of moral compass is a tired idea that belongs in the dark ages.
Morality is just another part of evolution. Behaviours that are considered "moral" have been adopted simply because they are beneficial for survival.
If you take the Bible for example, you can clearly see that morality exists in spite of it, not because of it.
If we were to look to the Bible for moral guidance, we'd be forbidding women to speak (the Bible says they are to remain silent and are not to teach, or have authority over any man), killing our children for being disobedient, stoning our daughters to death for losing their virginity, forcing them to marry men who rape them and sending them out to be gang raped by angry mobs to protect our male dinner guests; not to mention keeping slaves and beating them to death (condoned in the Bible so long as they don't die right away) and "dashing babies to death on rocks" because they happen to be the children of our enemies.
Does this really sound to you like a book to be consulted by anyone in search of morality?
Actualy all of the examples you have stated are from the old testament. The old testament is meant to be read in light of the new testament and with the peop[le who wrote it background and knowledge in mind. Jesus clearly teaches against all of those things.
Actualy all of the examples you have stated are from the old testament. - Jesus clearly teaches against all of those things.
I think you need a new Bible...and apparently a new Jesus.
1 Corinthians 14:34-36
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
I can't wait to go to church on Sunday. As soon as I hear a woman say anything, I'm going to stand up like a good Christian and say, "Shut up bitch! Haven't you read the new testament??"
I'm almost positive you're wrong, and I'll wade through the cesspool that is the Bible to confirm when I have time later on, but until then, even if you're correct, what are you saying? The God you worship was a filthy misogynistic slave trading murderous infanticide advocating lunatic, but he's not like that anymore so he deserves praise?
Morality is just another part of evolution? Evolution has no facts no proof and no common sense! You take parts from the Bible and run with it, if you read the entire story and meaning of the storys that you rip apart youd see who is the cause of the evil in it and who is the cause of the good in it. and he didnt say women were to remain silent, he said women are to remain silent in the church! because they cause confusion(fact). and he didnt say they shouldnt teach, he said they shouldnt teach men. Let your women teach your younger women. Finish the rest of the verse.
Most of them tell us. 'Allah Akbar!' (God is great!)
They're doing it for God, or so they believe. Who do you suppose has anything to gain from this kind of martyrdom? Not all religious violence is motivated by greed....some is motivated by pure idiocy.
Those who don't have God as their moral compass are the ones who are responsible for 99% of crimes committed to humanity.
What are you talking about? Except for communists I can't think of any crimes committed by atheists. As for crimes committed by people who believe in God? Pick a war...seriously, pick any war before communism came about and most wars after it and you'll see that in every case the leader of that nation and nearly the entire population of that nation believes in God.
Honestly you may deserve a prize for having created the most demonstrably wrong statements on this site. Congrats!
Wow. Just because people believe in God or claim so does not mean they have or use God as their moral compass. The God, I assume we are talking about the christian God, Does not promote war and if we are to actualy follow what this God teaches and use God as our moral compass we would not go to war, but most people do not follow God as their moral compass and thus do go to war.
So you're saying people believed in and infinitely powerful and all seeing being, and yet chose to pick something else as their moral compass? Okay, sure.
Also we aren't necessarily talking about the Christian God (I believe kinda is hindu) but my point applies to just about any religion since basically every religion has followers who have committed atrocities.
I'm not arguing that religion leads to killing, but I am saying that it isn't nearly as foolproof of a deterrent as many people make it out to be. The European wars of religion are a great example of this. People who were motivated by religious differences killed each other. Why? Because they believed it was the right thing to do. They thought that their own religions were the right ones and that it was their duty to persecute those who were different. Both sides were reading from the same book and basing it off of the Christian God, but they still committed these brutal acts.
There is also the killing of Jews by Christians since basically the time where there were Jews and Christians in Europe. Plus there's also the whole witch burning thing, but I guess those people really believed the witches were possessed by the devil so maybe they get a pass (although innocents still died).
Listen, I'm very happy that you are against war and killing, and honestly it doesn't matter to me why. Whether God tells you not to kill, or a little Leprechaun on your shoulder does...so long as you aren't harming those around you I'm all for it. What I am against is theists who believe that they have a monopoly on morality, and think that just because someone rejects the idea of God, that they are also one split hair away from killing and raping everyone within 100 miles. I should be judged by my actions not my religious beliefs (or lack thereof I guess).
Your goin off your own beliefs. Look at what wars are started over and by who. You say they claim to be Christians or are they really Christians if they were they wouldnt be starting wars. And athiests(so called) commit crimes all the time. Someone who is actually a Christian wouldnt commit these crimes you can tell a real Christian from a false poser and an evil man from a righteouse man. The leader of the nation and half the nation believing in God has nothing to do with them serving God
No I'm going off facts. Look at the European wars of religion, and I promise you will see people who legitimately and undeniably believed in God killing others because of their beliefs.
By changing the definition of Christian to someone who doesn't start wars, and then arguing that no Christians start wars, you're just begging the question, and not actually presenting an argument.
Also, as far as people in prison go...I'm basing by "beliefs" off of studies conducted that show that atheists are underrepresented in the prison population.
In other words: although you may find it difficult to believe/you world view won't let you believe that Christians can do awful things, history disagrees with you. Furthermore, you also want to believe that those people without Christianity act less morally than those that believe in it, however, your beliefs are in contradiction of the evidence. So really, it's your beliefs that are getting in the way. Not mine.
What is unfounded about not believing in god? God has no evidence that advocates for his existence. And before we go on the whole "faith is evidence" path, or something akwardly reminicent, keep in mind proving a god exists is equally as just as verifying a space unicorn exists. I need quantifiable evidence.
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I can understand why it is undesireable to not believe in a god; because it fills us with fear, no? Fear is the harbinger of panic. Panic is the catalyst for chaos. Chaos is the 21st Century Schizoid Man's domain. But I say to you that just because existence preceeds essence, that doesn't mean we are frivolous.
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Religion has a face and an arm. It's face is clean and benevolent, but it's arm is bloody and broken. What a congregation says and does are completely different things. Religious dissonance is the cause of several conflicts throughout history, and that is an undeniable fact.
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God does not give me discerntion, that is my mind's occupation. God does not offer me strength, that is my body's occupation.People act according to their will. God has no influence on them. The dillusion of "Big Father", if I may coin the term, is embedded in their concience.
LOL? FORREAL?? Those who don't have God as their moral compass are the ones who are responsible for 99% of crimes committed to humanity.
I'm sorry, are you arguing for authoritarianism as a basis of morality? You're so screwed. Blindly following an authority for moral decisions is what gave us the Crusades, Inquisition, the great purge, and Nazi Germany's police state.
I completely agree. I am an atheist and understand everything you just said. What I don't understand is the theist's motivation for belief, so I thought I would ask on here.
Believing something does not make it true. So any 'would you rather' argument is nonsensical, since the validity of eternal life has yet to be established. The real question should be 'Does eternal life exist?' and "Is belief even a choice or do I have to be sufficiently convinced of something before I believe it?".
I cannot choose to believe something simply because I want it to be true. I believe as I do, because of the experiences I've had and the the things I've seen convinced me to believe what I currently believe. Pascal's Gambit arguments fail for this reason. I will believe in eternal life, when I am convinced it is true...and no sooner.
No human is immortal thus they will die. When you die only 2 things are possible. You are right, but that means that you can't bask in your correctness. Or I am right, which means you will have eternal life and you will realize that.
And this is where you are wrong. There are more than two outcomes here. Ahmed, the Muslim could be right. Malachi, the Jehovah witness could be right. Lee, the shinto could be right. Damien, the Rastafarian could be right. Nebuchadnezzar, the Zoroastrian could be right. Assan, the Sufi could be right. Chang, the Buddhist could be right. Lisa, the Wiccan could be right. Ben, the deist could be right.
You catch my meaning? I could keep going, but in nearly every one of these results in us both being wrong. So just playing the odds, is not an intelligent argument. You should not pick a belief based on some perceived possible benefit, but because IT IS THE MOST LOGICAL THING TO BELIEVE.
Not if the universe is my backyard and the money tree is invisible. Also did I mention that you have to first Believe in the money tree, to be able to see it?
Actually Cicero, an invisible money tree would be very beneficial even if no one else could see it, as long as the money from the tree was or could become visible to others, but the bigger issue (which you seem to agree with) is that there is no reason to believe that an invisible money tree exists because we have no evidence for such a thing. Where your logic seems to stop, however, is at the analogy between the analogy between the invisible money tree and the invisible entity controlling all life, a.k.a. god. You agree that there is no reason to believe in the invisible money tree without sufficient evidence, but for some reason your god or gods, which have just as much evidence as the money tree, are exempt from this line of reasoning. Why shouldn't god be held to the same standards as the invisible money tree?
The answer to your question is "We don't know." Positing God in as the answer to that question is the same thing as saying "because the gods are angry" as a response to "Why do volcanoes erupt?" While it is a possibility, and we shouldn't completely rule out any possibilities, we also shouldn't make shit up when we don't know the answer to something and claim it is true.
Another objection to this line of reasoning would be that you seem to be requiring something to have caused the big bang, presumably because you believe that everything must have a cause, but by this logic, what caused God's existence? At this point you are forced to admit one of three things: that God has always existed, that God created himself, or that there is a higher being still that created God. Any of these paths destroy your argument fairly quickly.
If you believe that God has always existed then you are allowing exceptions to the rule of everything having a cause, which begs the question, "Why couldn't the Universe have existed forever in some form?" which eliminates the need for an invisible sky-person to have caused it to exist, thus voiding your entire argument.
Second, the idea that God created himself is completely ludicrous, because if he had the ability to create himself then he must already exist voiding the need for him to create himself.
Finally, the idea that God was created by an even higher being limits God's power and authority, in which case, it is misleading to call him "God" which has come to mean an omnipotent and omniscient being. I don't expect anyone to actually buy this last argument but it is a possibility, so I thought I would include it.
Either I didn't make myself clear enough or you didn't read/understand my whole post. I said that a possibility was that God has always existed, but then I made the point that this means there are exceptions to the rule that "everything must have a cause". If exceptions to the rule are allowed for no apparent reason, then what stops us from saying that the universe has existed forever? You are correct that a god or gods could have pre-existed the Universe, but since there is no evidence supporting such an idea, Occam's Razor allows us to say that the simplest explanation is more likely to be true. The simpler explanation in this case is clearly that the universe has always existed in some form or another, which eliminates the causal need for a god. This doesn't prove in any way that a god or gods couldn't exist, but it does show that until we find some evidence suggesting the presence of an omnipotent and omniscient being, the rational position is to live our lives as though there isn't a god.
1. That story means nothing to me. One man might have had a vision of something. This happens all the time thanks to drugs and wishful thinking.
2. I have never seen evidence of anything I would consider miraculous.
3. Science is willing to admit that it can't fully explain some things, but that doesn't instantly mean that they were done by a god, and scientists are making new discoveries every day that bring us closer to solving these mysteries.
I'm not trying to insult you, but would you rather be an atheist than have a chance at eternal life?
If there is an afterlife, it wouldn't depend on belief. The idea that you must choose to believe in it is a control mechanism created by living people to keep them invested in an ideology.
I don't think there is evidence for the existence or non-existence of God, but I live my life as if there isn't one because I think that if there is a God, he would rather we use the intelligence that separates us from the animals and figure out right and wrong without the help of sheep-herders from 2000 years ago.
God isn't necessary for the universe to exist so there is no reason to believe he does.
He was simply saying that a universe can exist without any god and since there has never been any evidence of a creator there is no reason to assume he was there. What are your religious views, downvote? And what makes you believe that God created the universe?
Strange that a thread asking 'what are your religious beliefs' quickly turned into an atheist circlejerk, and no religious person bothered to answer.
I am a Jehovah's Witness, and I believe the Bible to be Holy Word of God and the only acceptable source of any religions beliefs (sola scriptura). And believe the Bible to be the Holy Word of God due to, upon careful and long examination, the fact that it holds many prophecies that happened to come true, and that it has been correct on all its predictions about what would happen so far.
So you believe the Bible is the word of God and you must believe all of it, or you cannot believe any of it?
I must admit, I don't know much about your religion other than the fact JW's forbid children from enjoying birthdays, would rather let them die than let them receive a life-saving blood transfusion and aren't bothered by repeated failed prophecies. I mean, what are we doing here typing in a little box? According to your religion, the world should have ended in 1877...err, maybe 1879...no, no wait, this time we really mean it, 1880...ok, this time we're super sure...1886, 89? no wait, 94...ok...I know we were wrong before, but this time, we're sure...the world's going to end some time between 1910 and 1912!!!...oh no wait, 1914...for sure this time...ok, I'm getting bored of doing this, but you get the idea. This nonsense continued with countless more predictions about the world ending every other year and continues today. How can you be so foolish? How can anyone? It's incredible.
Noone knows when the world is going to end, the Jehovahs witnesses had their false predictions countless times they also have all thier false doctrines your taking word from a bunch of morons and comparing it to the bible it has nothing to do with the bible the bible doesnt give any date or time that the world is going to end but its goin to and noone knows when
Thank you for responding to the topic. As I have already said in this topic, I am an atheist, but I am very interested in peoples' beliefs and why people believe what they do. If you wouldn't mind would you give me a few examples of these "prophecies"? I am not looking for a complete list, but I want to see some instances in which these prophecies have come true.
Read the Bible in the old testament and then read the new testament they prophesy about Jesus plenty of times and they all come true clear down to the littlest thing. Then research the history of the Bible KJV(only unpolluted bible) and you'll see that theres no way it was made up and theres proof in it and no contradictions like other religions and their books
I used to be a Christian and have read both the old and new testaments and all the predictions I have ever seen were so vague that they were bound to come true at some point or they haven't happened yet. I also researched the King James Version and it was an English translation that didn't even exist until the 1600s so I'm not sure what you mean by "unpolluted" but whenever something is translated it instantly becomes polluted in a sense because there are ideas in some languages that have no good correlation to any word or group of words in another language. In addition, the date is troubling when you say it is "unpolluted" because it was not only published 1600 years after the events described in the old testament supposedly take place, but also it was 1300 years after the earliest known version of the bible, and was the translation of a copy of a translation of a copy of a translation etc.... That history leaves a lot of room for misinterpretation and human error. And I will admit I don't have a copy in front of me but I feel certain the KJV has just as many contradictions as all the other versions, and if you really want to test me I will find a copy online and locate them for you. Finally, if you want to convince me there is any reason to believe the KJV, you must first convince me that there is a reason to believe in the core tenets of Christianity, namely, that God exists, that Jesus was the son of God, that he performed miracles, and that he died and was resurrected to save us. If you can find evidence outside of the bible that proves these tenets beyond a reasonable doubt, then I will gladly convert, but I should warn you that I have given this challenge to many people, and so far no one has given me a single solid reason to even believe in the existence of a higher power, much less the anthropomorphized invisible sky creature that is Christianity's God.
i am atheist. i believe theists are are ignorant and gullible. think about this: why was the very first religion started? because people couldn't scientifically explain certain events like why the sun rises or how we got here. eventually we went from polytheism to monotheism and said fuck it there is one god that made everything and controls everything. well in the evechanging world we can now scientifically explain why the sun rises and how we got here. therefor there is no more need for a god ...unless you believe in some sort of afterlife
Not simply because I was raised in a Hindu household. Not because it has the best stories, most wisdom, larger branches, longer history. Not because it's path is the most righteous or because it has such a strong culture. Because all religions can argue this. The strongest reason I find to follow hinduism and not others is because it's record speaks for itself. It has the cleanest record in any chapter of any book on history, culture, civilisation, beliefs, religion and nonreligion. For a religion so large and that's been around for so long, that has to carry some weight imo a lot of weight.
That's a very interesting belief, but I can't tell if you believe Hinduism to be true (i.e. Shiva, Krishna, etc... are actually real and did all the things in the Vedas and the Upanishads and the other texts), or if you are merely a follower because it seems to be the least harmful major world religion, in which case I wonder why you choose to partake in religion at all. Please note that I am not trying to attack or discredit your views. I just want to understand your belief better.
My first priorit is theism. Being religious is better than being irreligious...
OF THOSE religions I can only say Hinduism stands tall. Not just because of its belief's etc. Because all religions claim to be tolerant or not war hungry or peaceful or wise (as hinduism is) but because Hinduism has proved itself time and time again. It's not based on one small book. It's a wide collection of many minds over long periods. You cannot truly fault Hinduism.
Tell me how being religious is "better" than being irreligious...better is a very vague word...also you still are not providing a very good argument for Hinduism as the truth...you are merely arguing that Hinduism inspires better morality than other world religions...also please stop being meaninglessly offensive to the atheist that posted his views...if you want to have an intelligent debate with him go ahead, but stop attacking his character just because he is different from you
All religions can CLAIM to be this or that. ALL religions can take phrases OUT OF CONTEXT and 'ANALYSE' it and give several DIFFERENT MEANINGS to it. So let's not sit here talking about what Hindu's believe, because you could easily find something to say otherwise (although you're probably wrong, it's possible). We also shouldn't look at how a MINORITY of PEOPLE follow the religion. The extremist who killed Gandhi claimed it was the right Hindu thing to do whereas it was MORE OF A POLITICALLY motivated thing to do. You could sit there saying Hinduism inspires extremism (even though we all know it doesn't) so we can evade another argument on that boat.
So instead of having meaningless arguments about Hinduism (because ya'll are always wrong) let's look at undeniable evidence. It's history. Simples.
Also explaining hinduism would take forever. It's a lot more complex and deeper than other world religions. I cba to sit here an lecture you all about it.
if you want to have an intelligent debate with him go ahead
I did but he's not intelligent.
Secondly he knows he's wrong which is why he hasn't countered.
Thirdly I find it funny how emotional you get when theists attack athiests, but when shoe is on the other foot it's ok.
You realize that by eliminating minority groups within religions, almost every religion is just as peaceful as Hinduism, right? Throughout history it has always been the minority groups of extremists that have committed the worst atrocities in every religion. Therefore, by exempting extremist minority groups, you can no longer claim that Hinduism has a better track record than other religions, which brings me back to my original question of what really makes you believe Hinduism is the truth? And once again please stop pointlessly insulting people. When you say "because ya'll are always wrong", I assume you are talking about atheists, but I would like to point out that I am, above all, a freethinking individual, and I haven't had any "meaningless arguments about Hinduism" with you so I would appreciate it if you wouldn't lump me in with everyone else. I am not asking you to explain everything about Hinduism to me, I just want to know what differentiates it in your mind from all the other world religions, and I promise I will do my research so that this doesn't turn into a "meaningless argument". As for your attacks on the other atheist on this topic, I hope you have debated him/her for real previously because nothing you wrote to him/her on this topic could be considered an intelligent debate, and he/she has seemed pretty intelligent every time I have seen him post. Second, he/she probably hasn't countered because you are only using ad hominem arguments to attack his/her character rather than his/her arguments, and ad hominem arguments are a mere annoyance and pointless to counter. Finally, I have yet to see any atheists on this topic be as offensive as you have been. I assure you that if any of them start resorting to the tactics you have been using, I will respond to them as soon as I can.
Only ignorant westerners think that Hinduism is any more peaceful or tolerant than the other religions. The only real Hindu they have ever heard of is Mahatma Gandhi, so they think all Hindus are like this (they aren't). Hinduism like any other religion has it's fair share of militant fundamentalists, and many people have been killed by Hindus over religious disputes. The reason most people in the west don't hear about it is because it's usually against other Hindus or against Muslims.
Seeing as you know so much about Hinduism enlighten me with your stupidity i mean knowledge.
The only country Jews haven't been persecuted in? Actually the only reason NO religious group has been persecuted (under a hindu government)
But please englighten us with your lack of knowledge. Just because an EXTREMELY SMALL number of hindus are militant doesn't at all tarnish the religion. There are probably more militant athiests than there are militant hindus.
You realize that there are over 360 countries in the world, to claim that India is the only one to not persecute Jews, is untenable.
Actually the only reason NO religious group has been persecuted (under a hindu government)
LOL
After the annexation of the Muslim-ruled state of Hyderabad by India in 1948, about 7,000 Muslim Arabs were due to emigrate to Pakistan at their own will from India. Most Muslims, however chose to stay in India. There was widespread violence against the Muslims as an aftermath of the 'Police Action' (officially Operation Polo) and Nehru had a committee investigate the program against Muslims, but the resulting Sundarlal Report was never made public (an estimated 50-200,000 Muslims are believed to have been killed)
Just because you haven't heard of such persecution, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Like most westerners you are completely ignorant of the recent rash of violence sweeping the region of Punjab and northern India.
I'm sure with a little digging I could find a lot more examples.
Just because an EXTREMELY SMALL number of hindus are militant doesn't at all tarnish the religion.
We're talking about the history of the world. Tell me where else they haven't been persecuted and then we can talk.
After the annexation of the Muslim-ruled state of Hyderabad by India in 1948, about 7,000 Muslim Arabs were due to emigrate to Pakistan at their own will from India. Most Muslims, however chose to stay in India. There was widespread violence against the Muslims as an aftermath of the 'Police Action' (officially Operation Polo) and Nehru had a committee investigate the program against Muslims, but the resulting Sundarlal Report was never made public (an estimated 50-200,000 Muslims are believed to have been killed)
Umm... that's not... religious persecution... communal violence.. religious violence... but not religious persecution. Find out the definition of religious persecution first. It wasn't just hindus killing muslims btw... it went both ways.
Thats why your religion was created by the Catholic church for a cover up to get their land back! Theres proof for that look it up. Theres no proof in hindu theres countless contradictions and it was made up buy a religion that also has false doctrines and contradictions taken from the origional. And hindu doesnt have the longest history any ignorant person can prove that its a pathetic excuse for a religion with false gods and vain worship
While not a religious man, there are some ideals that I believe in with a certain reverence and hold sacred. For example I hold individual autonomy to be very important, with government as a mediator. This is why I tend to argue against laws based upon preference and morality, these things are individual choices and should be the majority of the time. I believe in freedom of speech as a sort of sacred guardian of society, free speech enables us to bring problems out into the open and it lets us develop as individuals. I also believe that a government's duty in addition to acting as a moderator in disputes, is to protect its people from both internal and external threats; this includes providing voluntary safety nets and keeping a watchful eye on the wealthy and powerful so they cannot oppress the less privileged.
I didn't say individualism was a religious belief. I said that, as an irreligious man, I still have beliefs that can superficially be compared to sacred or religious beliefs.
Is the question asking what your religious belief is?
Yes?
Is your answer individualism?
Yes?
Is individualism a religion?
No!!
Guess you just keep on insisting to prove you have low reading comprehension, because I premised my entire argument with:
While not a religious man,
Which means everything that followed wasn't a religious argument, but a philosophical one. Ya dig? It would be a contradiction if I said something like, "While not a religious man, here's a religion I believe in."
So it follows that:
Is the question asking what your religious belief is?
Yes.
Is your answer individualism?
No.
Is individualism a religion?
No.
You see, this debate has lots of atheists bashing religion or saying they see no point to it. I decided to answer the question differently, in spite of being irreligious, I listed my beliefs.
I am atheist because I do not see how one super being or multiple pagan beings could create and shape the way we live or how we got here. We all make our own decisions. I believe in science, fact and logic. Things that can and already have been proved.
This is bullshit! You can't down vote my argument just because I am an atheist. The person who down voted my argument is probably just some damn religious nut who is upset that there is no real proof of a supreme being.
So what makes science so logical? What is the evidence for the Big Bang? What caused it? Or who caused it? Where did the particles come from? See! The same refutations can be used against the so-called "logical" theories.
You are right! The big bang theory is far from proven, although nothing can ever truly be proven. There is evidence however that suggests the truthfulness of the big bang theory, such as the red-shift of light as we look out into space, suggesting that light is expanding outward as if released from a single point in space. For more evidence check out the section titled "Observational Evidence" in the "Big Bang" Wikipedia entry. This evidence is the reason that the big bang is widely accepted in the scientific community. In addition, asking who caused the big bang is an interesting question because it presupposes that all things that happen have a cause, which is probably true, but I assume you would say that God started the Big Bang. This is a fallacy for two reasons. First of all, this falls under what some have called a "God of the gaps" argument. In other words, saying that science hasn't provided a great explanation for this yet so it clearly must be God's work, when, in all actuality, all this tells us is that we have no idea what caused the big bang. Secondly, even if there was a God that caused the big bang, what caused his existence? Most people at this point would argue that God is not a contingent being and is eternal, but if we subscribe to the hypothesis that things can be eternal, why would we need a God at all? Why couldn't the universe itself be eternal?
I never said science is perfect. To me religion is just a sense of falsehood that blinds people from reality and I don't need it in my life. I won't do "God's work", I'll do my own work based on my own decisions.
The Red Shift is evidence for the big bang. The universe is expanding, which means something caused it to expand. Reverse the direction of this expansion, and you find that all matter moves towards a point of origin. Newton's first law of motion, considerably limits the number of possibilities. Whether it was a quantum expansion, or a phase transition that caused the big bang we do not know, but we do know is that there was a big bang.
The big bang theory is a bunch of crap everything came from an explosion? what caused the explosion and what caused it to start spinning with the force and when it exploded everything was spinning a certian way (everything) then why are there moons spinning in the opposite direction, its all theory, and where did all the other elements come from? big bang says there was an explosion and one element came about where did all the others come from? they couldnt have evolved its not possible. You dont know that there was a big bang, because there is no proof but there is proof there wasnt. where did the other elements come from and why isnt everything spinning the same direction
Lol...have you ever taken a science course, or do you base all your knowledge of science from creationism websites?
1. The big bang was not an explosion.
2. The big bang was not spinning.
3. The big bang actually accounts for 2 elements (hydrogen and helium with percentages of about 75% to 25% respectively). What we see now confirms that the percentage of hydrogen and helium is nearly exactly what we would expect. Other elements were later formed in large stars as these elements fused into new elements.
4. Other than the ratio of hydrogen to helium we have numerous pieces of evidence that point to the big bang as being how our universe began, such as redshifted distant galaxies, background radiation and the age of the oldest stars.
5. No one has ever said that nothing caused the big bang. We don't know, so science doesn't even talk about it (except in theoretical physics, but these hypothesis can't be tested).
So next time you decide to talk about science....maybe you should try knowing what the hell you're talking about first.
I believe that there is a rational explanation for everything. I have no religion. I believe all organized religions are inherently flawed, nor do I think we should limit ourselves to established creeds of men.
I do not believe in any of the extant world religions, nor have I fabricated my own God. The reasons are as follows:
1) There is no evidence to back up their most fundamental claim - that God exists.
2) All religions have questionable moral foundations, including such depravities as misogyny, murder, subservience and theocracy.
3) Religions have brought unnecessary violence to the world. What marginal good they have done is outweighed by the death of even one person. No conflict, however, can be attributed to atheism.
4) Religion tries to protect itself by refuting facts, such as the dinosaurs and the age of the Earth.
5) Religion is a device used for controlling the masses.
One of the most fundamental issues concerning the God of the Holy Bible is His appearance. What does God look like? After thoroughly investigating the available research, a tentative conclusion can be reached. God is a giant, barbaric, bearded, circumcised male sorcerer that stands between 50-100 feet tall, perhaps even larger. Most importantly, He has horns upon each side of His forehead, like a ram or a goat, but in all other respects resembles a fiercely handsome adult male.
Then Moses went up with Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel, and they saw the God of Israel; and under His feet there appeared to be a pavement of sapphire, as clear as the sky itself. Yet He did not stretch out His hand against the nobles of the sons of Israel; and they saw God, and they ate and drank.
- Exodus 24:9-11
It should be remembered that traditionally God resides in Heaven, in other words- outer space. There is the distinct possibility that the God of both the Old and the New Testament is a supernatural, extra-terrestrial being from another world, or planet, somewhere nearby in the Milky Way galaxy. He appears capable of manipulating both time and space and has mastered the forces of nature- earth, air, water, and fire. His life-span measures in the thousands, perhaps tens of thousands, of years. In His world, there are probably many different forms of horned creatures, some of whom walk on two legs, others who walk on all fours. Historically speaking, it is entirely accurate to assume that YHVH, or Yahweh, the father God of both Jews and Christians, has horns. Canaanite legend states this explicitly. The Hebrews were directly related to the Canaanites because both were Semitic tribes descended from Shem. The Bible itself also hints at this ‘horned’ reality. The passages are as follows:
God brought them out of Egypt; He has, as it were, the [horn]
of a unicorn.
- Numbers 23:22
God brings him out of Egypt; He has [horns] like a wild ox.
- Numbers 24:8
One prominent Biblical scholar believes that these passages can only lead to one possible conclusion. He states without hesitation that, ‘The horns belong to God, who is…called El.’ With this in mind, it is difficult to accept the opinions of some critics who believe that God the father does not have horns, only the devil does. In the past, this line of thought has lead to some highly anti-Semitic conclusions. Jew-haters spewing nonsense have time and again attempted to claim that the horned God of the Jews was, and is, the Devil and that the God of Christianity does not have horns. While Rabbi Jesus may not have horns, to say that the God of the Jews, or of the Christians, is hornless is completely contrary to the statements of more than a few experts. Consider the following quotations:
The Canaanite gods Baal and El were horned bull gods as was,
originally, Yahveh, which is why horns decorate the altar described in Exodus 27.
- Encyclopedia of Religions
Horns, in Moses' time, were a symbol of authority and power.
Many gods, including YHVH have been depicted as having
them.
- Mary Sutherland
This god…was seen in two basic ways; as a solar sky deity
and, particularly as he expressed himself in nature, as a horned
god of the woodlands and forests. A great being who was lord
of all nature. He also has many names: Cernunnos, Merlin, Lugh, Pan, Osiris and many others including YHVH, or Jehovah of the Hebrews.
- John and Donna Beasley
The modern confusion over the appearance of God the Father comes mostly from the artwork of Michaelangelo. In his various paintings and sculptures, God is portrayed without horns, like Zeus, the sexually degenerate god of the Greeks and the Romans. This has caused generations upon generations of believers to picture the Christian father God as human and without horns. For whatever reason, Michaelangelo did make a sculpture of the prophet Moses with horns. Sadly, many Christians have taken this to mean that the God of Moses, the God of the Old Testament, the God of the Jews, was the Devil with horns, while the God of Jesus Christ, the God of the New Testament, the God of Christianity did not have horns and was an entirely different God.
This is completely contrary to Church teachings and is, in fact, blasphemy and heresy. The God of the Old Testament and the God of the New Testament was, and is, the exact same God. Scores of Christian scholars have confirmed this throughout the centuries. Christians certainly do not worship Zeus, a human god without horns. They never did. They worship the God of the Holy Bible. Modern research and scholarship have shown conclusively that this God traditionally had horns. What may perplex the Christians of today is the age-old legend that Satan, the Devil has horns. Keep in mind that these same legends never said God did not have horns. In fact, the proper Biblical tradition is to never, ever create an image of God whether it be a painting or a sculpture. The Ten Commandments completely forbids any portrayal of what God actually looks like:
You shall not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth below, or that is in the water under the earth.
- Exodus 20:4
For this reason, the image of God having horns has remained somewhat of a secret over the centuries. It has been passed down from generation to generation, from father to son, by word of mouth commonly known as the oral tradition. This may leave some Christians of today feeling somewhat uncomfortable, disbelieving, or even frightened. When it comes to the God of the Holy Bible, the faithful and obedient need never be afraid. YHVH, the horned God of the Hebrews is a God of justice and mercy. He always has been and always will be. His people, the Jews, have proven to be some of the kindest, most peaceful people in history. His only son, Rabbi Jesus, followed in this tradition by preaching peace, love, tolerance, and forgiveness. In God’s eyes, Satan, the Devil, is an evil, very dangerous nuisance who both tempts and accuses mankind with wrongdoing. He is the little bat, rat, or cockroach, the pest that God just can’t seem to catch. While both of them may originate from the same Heavenly world, or planet, that contains many different horned creatures, God and Satan are distinctly different in both size and temperament. God, a horned, benevolent giant looks down upon mankind with kindness and generosity, forever willing to forgive their sins. At the same time, Satan, the little horned pest and rodent, the malcontent son, the insane, ugly and evil uncle, views man with hatred, suspicion, envy and malice. Through the use of Scriptures, God warns the good people of earth against ever trusting in His opponent, the Devil, or any of his fellow wicked, little horned people. As the Bible states:
The children of Israel may bring their sacrifices, which they offer in the open field…they may bring them unto the LORD…And they shall no more offer their sacrifices unto devils, after whom they have gone a whoring. This shall be a statute for ever unto them throughout their generations.
- Leviticus 17:5-7
Some believers may become confused or even angry that the God of the Holy Bible has hidden the fact that He has horns from so many of His loyal and devout followers throughout the centuries. One reason may be because He considered it unimportant or because Zeus, the evil, sexually perverted, Pagan god without horns, has tried to usurp God’s place in the minds of men by trying to convince everyone that only Satan has horns. The fact remains that Zeus is not YHVH, the God of Israel and never will be. Just as his son Apollo, a savage homosexual, was no Jesus Christ and never will be. (See The Morals and Ethics of Astronomy) The hiding of God’s horns is not a conspiracy. It is merely one small part of the Biblical tradition, predicted several different times in Scriptures. They are as follows:
[God] said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their
end shall be. - Deuteronomy 32:20
How long will you forget me, O LORD? For ever? How long will
you hide thy face from me? - Psalm 13:1
Hide not thy face far from me; put not thy servant away in anger.
You have been my help; leave me not, neither forsake me, O God
of my salvation. - Psalm 27:9
LORD, by your favour you have made my mountain to stand
strong: you did hide thy face, and I was troubled. - Psalm 30:7
Wherefore hidest you thy face, and forgets our affliction and
our oppression? - Psalm 44:24
Verily you are a God that hides yourself, O God of Israel, the
Saviour. - Isaiah 45:15
Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have
poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, says the Lord
GOD. - Ezekiel 39:29
It is to be hoped that, when it comes to giant men with horns, a profound change of heart can occur among the billions of believers in the three great religions of Abraham, namely Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. This small change of heart has to occur in order for God to fully reveal Himself once again. For how can this barbaric giant, who has spiritually conquered most of the world, ever hope to meet His children face to face if they remain terrified of His horns? For Christians, how can Rabbi Jesus ever introduce His father to a hostile audience who would mistake Him for the Devil? For this reason, God remains hidden from view. Until the hearts and minds of mankind change, He must.
For the past few centuries, theologians have speculated upon the omnipotence, omniscience, and unimaginable light and glory which they believe to be God Almighty. They forget what the Bible clearly states numerous times in many languages- that God has a face, hands, and feet just like a man. He also has a name and that is YHVH which in Hebrew means, ‘I will be what I will be.’ Dozens, literally hundreds, of rival gods with rival stories and rival traditions have perished under the onslaught of Christianity and Islam. Today, the Pagan gods are considered nothing more than myths. Was this all just a coincidence? Or is man finally prepared to meet both his maker and creator face to face, the fierce, bearded giant with horns who has conquered them all. Only time will tell.
How does one account for the unexplainable presence of horns on some animals, all of herbivores, and their evolutionary uselessness? To defend themselves? Give me a break! No, the LORD God of Israel was historically one of the few gods to have horns. I call this proof enough, God: the giant, horned man from somewhere up there, out there, in Heaven...
First of all, you called the presence of horns unexplainable and then proceeded to give an explanation, and your "all of herbivores" side comment doesn't make sense unless you are suggesting that all herbivores have horns. This isn't my argument, I just think you need to be more precise with your use of the English language. Second, horns are useful for defense so I'm not sure where you are getting the idea that they couldn't have evolved for that purpose. Third, what distinguishes the God of Israel from the Hindu gods (some of which probably have horns) or the ancient Roman gods? What makes your set of myths true and theirs false? Finally, doesn't the bible say in Genesis that God created man in his own image? Why don't we all have horns if you are so sure God does?
