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What can possibly be going through this persons mind?
It's hard to wrap your brain around what the hell would posses this man to snap and dismember an 8 year old boy. It is so close to me where they found half of the body of this child, it's scary. I admit I cried when I heard and could only think what the parents must be going through.
In a physical sense, the criminal killed the boy. In another non pshysical sense, the community killed the boy. I went to the link above and it said that the community send out flyers. There was a search party going on. In response to the search party, the criminal killed the boy.
I don't mean to offend anybody. And im not saying that i blame the community for their actions. I feel like im right and you guys who oppose me are wrong. The criminal killed the kid as a RESPONSE to the search party. In a sense, the community is at fault for the child's death. Not the only fault.
If there wasn't a search party going on. The child would have a greater chance of living. Tho, i have no ways of proving that other than it was said in the link that he killed the boy as a RESPONSE to the search party.
Think about it like this. If you wrote an essay on paper. And i stole that essay. And you wrote another essay. Why did you write another essay? Many reasons. One reason so you won't get a zero on your homework or project. However, the other reason is because i stole your essay. The same concept is applied here. The guy killed the kid because he was probably planning on doing it anyway (possibly). But the other reason was because it was the community.
Guys, the linked said that he killed the boy in response to the search party or flyers. (don't remember)
I think my head isn't on straight because 1. i get why he did it, and 2. i felt like laughing. But if anybody is going to insult me for laughing, i could give you my indepth philosophy on initial emotion. lol.
I get why he did it because he felt nervous of the flyers. He told the police he had intentions of giving the boy back to the parents but that isn't always the case with criminals. As he saw the flyers, the criminal began to wonder that people are going to think it was him. In a result of that worry, he chopped the boy in peices, thinking that would be a way to avoid being caught.
I believe, that it is the community fault that the boy is dead. Aron saw the flyers and as a result, killed the boy. The flyers were the cause. The community is the cause.
Or am i wrong? I don't mean to offend anybody but if you think im wrong, please explain?
I believe, that it is the community fault that the boy is dead. Aron saw the flyers and as a result, killed the boy. The flyers were the cause. The community is the cause.
This is not purely logical, yes the flyer's are attributed by this person to being the motivation behind killing and dismembering an innocent child, but they are not the first cause, the accused taking of the boy is the first cause. What would you expect a family with a missing child to do? They can't just assume that by looking for their child that it would mean that he would be killed.
Also how are we to know that killing the boy was not his ultimate goal?
The community is wrong? The flyers killed the kid? Are you kidding first off the flyers did not kill the kid the man did. 2nd as a concerned parent you are going to do what you can to find your child, without letting the community know that this child missing and what to look out for you will not be able to find the kid.
Even if he had dropped the kid off he was still wrong and would been found either way.
In this situation putting the blame on the family is ridiculous, it is not their fault that sick individual decided he was going to play with the fate of an 8 year old boy and the fact that anyone would think that is okay is disturbing to say the least
Im sorry if i upsetted you. However, i don't see around my logic. It sounds horrible to me say what i stated, but im standing by it.
The news woman said that he chopped the boy into peices when HE learned that the massive search party is under way. The community is the cause for the child's death because it tempted the criminal to chop the boy into peices.
It seems like simple math to me. Criminal plus Search party equals boy's death. If he was going to kill him anyway, then i wouldn't blame the community. But this is what was learned by the link you gave to us.
if the goal of this person was to let the boy go home then he could have easily let him go a few blocks over and not hurt him. He has said it himself that he needed to get rid of the boy so they don't find him, but of course it back fired.
If you had a child what would you do leave up to the graces of this sick individual to return him home? Would you even bother looking?
I know as a parent myself I would turn every stone looking for my child
im not denying anything what you said about the criminal. However, the community is ALSO to be blamed for the boy's death. The community arrival to search for the boy caused the man to kill the boy. Im not saying that what the community did was wrong. And im not saying that the criminal should not go to prison. But their actions tempts the criminal to murder the boy. If you are cause, aren't you are reason?
If you agree to that statement, then it must be clear to you that the community did play a part in the boy's demise.
I know as a parent myself I would turn every stone looking for my child
I think this is the major difference here (between us and thethinker), only if you have children can you truly feel the significance of this.
That guy (culprit) would want to be kept well away from me if that was my child. I'd dismember him while he was still alive, using the bluntest instrument that would do the job and I wouldn't mind doing the time for it.
I completely agree with you I would totally dismember him way before they even took him to the precinct. Life in prison for taking my child the way he did, not a problem i'd do it.
I truly understand the significane of the issue. The parent's loss a boy that was very dear and loved by their heart. I don't have a child, but i can't put myself in their shoes. And i may not feel the full impact of emotion, but i get the sense of it. Therefore, downvote.
When i said that the community was a fault. I meant that they share the blame for the boy's death. It was their actions as well that tempted the killer to kill the boy. Im not saying that the criminal should be sent free tho and that it was him who chopped the boy into peices.
But the community is the reason why he killed the boy. Therefore, they share a part in the boy's death.
"The news woman said that he chopped the boy into peices when HE learned that the massive search party is under way. "
Ya he panicked, so he felt he had to kill the child in order not to get caught, that in itself shows just how disturbed and sick this individual was, to think that by killing an innocent child he could somehow escape the consequences of his hanus actions.
"The community is the cause for the child's death"
No the cause of the childs death is the sick, twisted, fucked in the head, bat shit crazy, disgusting, repugnant, vile, insidious, pathetic excuse for a human that decided to kill the child instead of returning him to his parents. How you can even reach this conclusion is beyond my means of comprehension, you are in effect saying that its the fault of the community that an innocent child was abducted and subsequently.
"because it tempted the criminal to chop the boy into peices. "
What??? It tempted the criminal to chop up the boy, how the fuck do you figure that? Ya they tried to get the boy back, they had no idea what had happened to him for all they knew he was dead before they had organised a serch party or put flyers up, they were doing the only thing they could do to try to get their child back and you say they are somehow to blame for taking such actions!!! Thats a fairly fucked up opinion by any standard.
"It seems like simple math to me. Criminal plus Search party equals boy's death."
Heres some simpler math:
Criminal that captures a young boy against his will = sick fuck
∴ Criminal that captures a young boy and kills him in order not to get caught for his dispicable act = sick fuck that deserves the worst kind of death imaginable.
QED.
Seriously if you really beleive what you are saying you need to seek some kind of help.
"If he was going to kill him anyway, then i wouldn't blame the community."
You have no idea what he was going to do, someone that fucked up probably didn't know what they were going to do either, he was probably simply acting on his base impulses, and i can say with some confidence that wouldn't have resulted in anything good for the boy regardless of what external forces were at play.
The community is one cause to the boy's death. If a you are a "cause," aren't you a "reason?" hmmmm? Im not saying that i hate the community for their actions. AND I DO BELIEVE THAT PEOPLE SHOULD TAKE RESPONSIBLITY FOR THEIR OWN ACTIONS. (so other people will see what i said lol) but the truth is, i stand by what i said.
Read my other recent response. I don't want to repeat the same thing.
Thats a very flawed way of looking at the situation, i mean i will conceed that causality (and thus the actions of the serch party) did play a part in the final outcome (i.e. the boys horrible demise) but you are trying to shift blame from the boy's killer to the community for simply having the audacity to try to rescue him, can you not see how fucked up that is?
"If a you are a "cause," aren't you a "reason?""
Yes but the by far the prinary reason for the boys death is the sick twisted fuck that decided he was going to aduct and subsequently kill him in a gruesome fashion, how can you not see that?
"Im not saying that i hate the community for their actions. "
I should hope not, the communities actions are to be commended, they had no way of knowing where the child was or what condition he was in, they were doing all they could to find and bring him back to safety, would you not be happy to learn if you were abducted that a serch party was out doing all they could to find you, i eman saying that the killer was tempted is a very twisted way to look at it for the simple reason that the killers actions were entirely the product of his own self concious action.
"but the truth is, i stand by what i said."
You stand by the fact the the primary reason for the boys death is the fact that the community in which the boys praent lived and the boys parents had the audacity to try to get their boy home safely, not the sick twisted digusting fucked in the head worthless pathetic excuse for a human child abdcutor that actually captured the boy against his will and killed in a a truly ruesome way. So in effect what you are proposing is that the parents and the community be put on trial for the boys murder, and the killer be let off as he can't help it, he was tempted, i mean if you're going to tempt a digusting sick murderer you have to be prepared to accept the consequences, is that what your saying? And i mean what exactly qualifies as temptation if thats the case, i mean there are many other ways the killer could have been tempted e.g. if the community never looked for the boy maybe the killer would get the impression nobody cared about him at all so then he would be tempted to do the same as he may think if nobody cared about him he'd get away with scot free Do you not see how fucked up your logic is? You can always piiont ot outside influences for a dispicable act after the act has been committed but it is clear to anybody that there is only one person to blame in this story an that is the person who brtually murdered a helpless young boy.
"Read my other recent response. I don't want to repeat the same thing."
Ive read all your posts on this debate you don't have to repeat that same thing im not going to agree with it and neither will anyone who is sound of mind.
I am not trying to put the entire blame on the community. The blame also go to the criminal himself. But what i have read is that the killer killed the boy as a response to the search party. Therefore, im not shifting the blame.
You agree with my statement that when you are a "cause," then you are a "reason." You agree that the community did play a part in the boy's demise. But yet, you stated in the last part of your comment that you are not going to agree with what i have said. Downvote...because you were being hypocritical. You seem to focus all your attention to the killer. And i understand that it was the killer who chopped the boy into pieces. But in a non physical sense, the community is to be blamed as well.
You can argue with my theory all that you want. But as a response of the search party, the boy was killed. Could the criminal be tempted by another "cause?" Maybe so, but based on the link, it wasn't so.
Theres no also in this case, the parents and community were merely doing what any would in trying to return the choldn home safely, there actions cannot be used as a jusfication for the machinations of a sick twisted individual.
" the killer killed the boy as a response to the search party"
The crucial thing that you keep overlooking is the fact that he killed him, it doesn't matter what the serch party was doing, that man chose to brutally kill the boy, the serch party could have been right outside his house knocking on his door it still would not hafve given himm the right to kill the boy nor would it have given anyone (like you) the jusfication to claim that the community was in any way to blame for the incident, the burden of responsiblilty falls squarely on the shoulders of the killer, this is how it would be seen by any moral person, this is how it will be seen by any court room as this is morally the right. The killer had the free will to do whatever he wanted regardless of the circumstances, you simply cannot piotn to external circumstances as being responsible in the way that you are suggesting it makes no sense.
"You agree with my statement that when you are a "cause," then you are a "reason.""
No, not in the way you are suggesting. You seem to be causality to suit your twisted perspective, if i hold a knife dangling above my hand and choose to drop it, it will hit my hand and wound me, i caused the knife to drop therefore the reason for it dropping is my own self conscious action, if a person suddenly ran into the room and i knew they would prevent me from dropping the knife so i quickly dropped it so they could not prevent me from doing so, is that person to share the burden of responsibilty for the wound on my hand? Also, pelase don't return with if a person ran into the room and i got worried and accidently dropped it as that doesnt apply simply because there was nothing about this case that was accidental, if there was he may have been able to plead man slaughter.
"reason." You agree that the community did play a part in the boy's demise."
No. Again not in the way you seem to be suggesting, i agree that everything played a part in the boys demise as every action has an equal and oppsite reaction, in this sense the birds chirping in the trees outside the house where the boy was being kept played a part, but are they to share responsiblity also? I eman maybe they did somthing to provoke him to kill the boy? This may sound ridiculous but this is essentially the reasonaing you are using, can you not see that? All the circumnstances culminated in the boys demise but only one thing can be said to have caused the death of the boy i.e. the sick twisted killer who decided it would be alright to kill him, simple as.
" But yet, you stated in the last part of your comment that you are not going to agree with what i have said. "
Of course im not, nobody whop could be considered sound of mind could gree with you on this issue.
" Downvote...because you were being hypocritical."
No actually im not your only proving your incapable of listening to reason, there has been nothing hypocritical abut anything i have said but go ahead and downvote every argument ive ever presented on this site if it gives you some small sense of satisfaction. You don't like having your twisted opinoin scruntinised do you?
"You seem to focus all your attention to the killer."
Yes i do, and with somer jusfication, i mean he did capture a helpless child and keep him against his will, then he decided it would be ok to kill the child and dismember the corpse, i think im quite justified in focusing only on the killer, the burden of justifcation fall on you and so far you haven't been able to give anything that could possibly justify responsibility falling on anyone else shoulders, despite what you think.
" And i understand that it was the killer who chopped the boy into pieces."
You could have fooled me.
" But in a non physical sense, the community is to be blamed as well."
You don't get it do you, yes the community may have inflamed the temper of the killer or coaused him to become worried which led to him killer the boy but this is speculation, he ultimately chose to kill the boy, nobody else, regardless of why he did, he was the one who did it, nobody else is to blame in this, if you think my opinion is in the minotiry please ask others i can ssure you that the response will be the same, if you feel like downvoting me again for saying what any sane person would say feel free.
"You can argue with my theory all that you want."
You don't have a theory, your argument defeats itself but i don't expect you to see that.
" Could the criminal be tempted by another "cause?" "
Yes in fact the causes are infinite and are all dependent on the temperment of the kille i.e. maybe cold weather casued him to become extremely violent, there fore by your logic the c old weather must share a portion of the blame, get a grip on reality, and don't expect anyone to agree with you when you post an argument that is so obviously wrong.
I admit that i am wrong. (Tho that answer might change) I am now seeing it your way.
It does sound crazy but anything could have prompted him to kill. Answer me this...
If Person 1 holds a gun to Person 2 and told Person 2 to move to the right and Person 2 did? Why did Person 2 moved to the right? Because of the gunman and his gun? Or because of himself? Base on your logic, your answer would be because of himself. Based on my logic, it would be because of the gunman.
What if i some someone killing another person? And i walked away. Should i hold responsibility for that person's death as well?
It does sound crazy to put blame on the weather and birds. But honestly, i would put a blame on it. If the weather prompted the boy's death, it is not the main responsiblity.
hmmmm...im thinking as im typing. Maybe responsibility is the wrong word. "Reason" is the correct word. I guess you can't put responsibility on the community's shoulders. However, they are a reason for the boy's death. And if you can't see this, then im sorry.
Edit. I would have to agree with myself. That the community is the reason why the boy died, according to the link. Tho reason is not responsibility and that is why you can't put blame on the community.
Im going to give back your point that i deducted....for now.
"It does sound crazy but anything could have prompted him to kill."
Exactly, i know you may think you have a piont with the community (and maybe you do, it does seem quite logical given the way events unfolded)
"Base on your logic, your answer would be because of himself. Based on my logic, it would be because of the gunman."
No i would say because of the gunman 1, my logic doesn't dictate that i side with gunman 2 in this instance as gun man 2's life is in danger if he doesn't move whereas the killer life wasn't in danger if he didn't kill the boy, at most his freedom was in danger, theses are qualitatively different adn you know it.
"Should i hold responsibility for that person's death as well?"
No, not necessarily, but it would characterise you as a certain type of person e.g. coward or sociopathic or nihilistic etc. etc.
"However, they are a reason for the boy's death"
Although this may be correct it doesn't in anyway mean you can place blame on them, if the police showed up to save the boy and then he was killed you could say the police showing up got him killed, even though this may be true the burden of responsibility falls on the killer, and rightly so.
" And if you can't see this, then im sorry."
Oh i can see it alright, beleive me, what you fail to able to realise is that in know what justifies balming anyone else for crime, we are all accountable for our own actions on this earth, nobody else, you can try shifting blame saying something made me do it or whatever but ultimately we are in control of our own actions, and thus are accountable for them.
"That the community is the reason why the boy died, according to the link."
The reason the boy died is because he was abducted by a psychopath, nothing else.
"Im going to give back your point that i deducted....for now."#
I realize now than yesterday that i thought "cause" and "responsibility" was in the same category. I will say that the reason for the boy's death can be infinite. (weather, community, even ourselves who stood and read the crime instead of doing anything about it). I realize now that responsibility lies to the person who actually done the action.
Um, it is surprising that you picked Person 1. Person 2 moved to the right because of the gun. But he is responsible for moving to the right because it was his own decision. Person 1 tempted Person 2 to move to the right but he is not responsible for his decision to move.
(Some parts of the message deleted)
Edit. I really thought your answer to my scenario and i believe you are wrong. The scenarios aren't exactly different. Let me explain.
Person 1 held a gun to Person 2. Person 2 moved to the right because of Person 1 with his gun. But Person 1 is not responsible for his decision to move to the right. Person 2 is responsible for moving to the right because he decided to move. He chose that decision because he feared for his life. The cause of his judgment is because of the gunman (Person 1) but Person 1 isn't responsible. (Cause and responsibility isn't the same is some cases)
Saying that Person 1 is responsible is the same reason for me saying that i put the blame on the community. Person 1 and the community is a factor that causes an effect. But this "cause" doesn't hold responsibility because the "effect" was decided by another person. Responsibility means of the person who made the decision. Person 1 didn't push Person 2 to the right. Person 2 chose that decision.
And that is where i made that mistake. The community didn't chop the boy. The killer did. However, the community was one reason/cause who has no responsibility in the death of the boy.
I have a hard time knowing what responsibility really means. Some parts of me still think it is the community fault. But when i say the word "responsible" i "feel" what it means than i "know" what it means.
What about taking personal responsiblity for your actions? I really question your judgement here. I am sick of people BLAMING PEOPLE. And today if someone is arrested for something...........they scream like Casey Anthony did..........I was abused. Its the mothers and fathers fault the brothers uncles...teachers....librarians.....etc etc.
This guy was sick and it was his actions alone that killed this child. I struggle with the death penalty...but man, in cases like this....my emotions get the best of me and I say take him out back....and cut off limb by limb...his entire body, while he is awake. Yea yea I know...Christian love...hey I am not perfect.
He should be locked away with no food or water.......until he dies.......is that bad enough? Ok dropped off in the middle of the ocean? Thats to humane......drop him off the tallest tower in New York? How about tell Muslim radicals about what he did and give him to them. .....
"Yea yea I know...Christian love...hey I am not perfect."
Oh i now, to quote Bill Hicks:
" You ever look at their faces? "we're pro-life and we'll kill your ass!" Don't they look it? Don't they just exude joie de vivre?
"I believe that the Bible is the literal word of God." And I say no, it's not, Dad. "Well, I believe that it is." Well, you know, some people believe they're Napoleon. That's fine. Beliefs are neat. Cherish them, but don't share them like they're the truth."
The community did play a part in the boy's demise. You can deny that all you want, but the truth is that the community actions is what tempted the criminal to kill the boy.