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Debate Score:54
Arguments:40
Total Votes:61
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 What good reason is there to believe in any religion? (40)

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RevFred(349) pic



What good reason is there to believe in any religion?

Why do you believe?
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3 points

I think, like everything, there can be a good side. It all depends on how you deal with what you are given.

For people who need answers but don't accept or want to accept the ones that are... more realistic, then having a religion to follow could be good for you.

Psychological relief maybe. You might be less likely to blame yourself for your hardships, which would keep you on the upside, especially if you know that you must be good in god's eye. Anything that comes your way in the shape of a misfortune, is really a test to overcome. That could be an upside.

Also, for "religions" like Buddhism, there's a sense of some personal adventure, on your path to enlightenment.

This may be obvious, but there are a lot of moral lessons in, probably all, religious texts. They might not be right in all cases, but they help people by giving them a loose set of moral standards to live by without having to think about them too much.

There is also community, which can be a good thing, I mean, it has it's ups. Social life seems pretty important to people, to establish a network of people that are willing to help you when you need it, and to comfort you, guide you, and to establish a feeling in yourself to feel like you have a function to others. I would imagine one would feel secure, from knowing that they have a place in a community and that the community is there for them.

You can get all of these things from various places, for instance psychological relief from drug use, or from physical activity. You could get the morals and ethics from thought it you have the time and will to study a little, and you could get the community from sports or just hanging out with friends more often.

I know that religious people at least seem happy with themselves and life. Maybe there is more to it than that... the belief that someone is out there looking out for you and that after you die you won't disappear from existence. So, protection from existential angst.

Side: There are some
RevFred(349) Disputed
1 point

1. Nobody NEEDS answers. People need food, and air.

2. Psychologically, blaming yourself is the healthy way of dealing with your problems. It's the mentality that makes us better ourselves.

3. You can take away moral lessons without believing in the religion. I have.

4. Communities are everywhere. You don't need religion to be in a community. Also, communities of people with supernatural beliefs have done a lot of bad in the world.

5. All of the things you have pointed out are "good" things that come out of religion, NOT good reasons to believe in it, NOT good reasons to think Jesus existed, NOT good reasons to think there is an invisible man in the sky that will send you to hell if your bad, but loves you.

Side: There isn't one
Bradf0rd(1428) Disputed
2 points

1. People don't only need food, water, air, and shelter to be a healthy person. Not to say that religion is needed for a healthy person, but religion can inspire health.

2. You cannot blame yourself for everything. Rape is an example. You blame the person behind bars, it does little justice. You blame yourself and you are in a worse position than you are just being raped.

3. Did you read my argument fully?

4. Communities are everywhere, but they cannot go everywhere with you. In religious sects, it would seem that no matter where you go, people agree with you. My girlfriend's mother is a JW, and she's been all over the place and always has hospitality and a place to stay because of their respective religious beliefs.

5. That's not true. I said that believing in a god would bring a sense of control to life, basically, and being able to have faith in things even when they do not appear to be good. Being raped, again, as an example. If you're raped, say, jogging through a neighborhood park late at night after work, how are you going to be able to believe that it won't happen any other time you leave the house when the sun is down? You were traumatized, so rational thought sort of takes the back seat without you consciously knowing it. How are you going to explain what happened? Well, there are bad people in the world and they do what they do because they are evil. God looks out for you, blah blah blah, so don't worry. The evil doers out there in the world will witness the wrath of god. You don't have to be hateful towards that which makes no difference, god has your back.

Also, I pointed out where else you would get these benefits, and I'm guessing you just stopped reading before seeing it. No one can rightfully say if Jesus existed, or if Jesus was actually the son of god, and no one can rightfully say that god exists... All we can do is believe... and people aren't going to believe unless they also believe that it will get them nowhere. They do it for themselves, so that is why I pointed out those factions that people do believe for.

If you still have an issue with this answer argue based on my perspective of the question or restate the question as "What proof exists to establish religion as accurate and true" because I think that's the question you are seeking an answer for.

Side: There are some
2 points

I must disagree with you RevFred on several points.

2. Psychologically, blaming yourself is the most UNHEALTHY way to deal with any and all problems. Blaming others is equally as unhealthy! We need only recognize our part in the problem and try to correct it. If we can, and depending on what the situation is or whom it involves, we may take responsibility for our own actions and perhaps point out YOUR own shortcomings to someone else. It's like a key opening a doorway. When you do that, it makes our path easier and allows the other person to also see what their part was.

3. Then I might ask what moral standard you were following? It certainly doesn't have to be religious but it must be a belief system of some sort otherwise you wouldn't know enough to even call it a moral lesson.

4. Yes, communities are everywhere and it's true one doesn't need religion to be in a community, however, religion gives you a starting place and a commonality. It bodes well for a good start in making a community. People with supernatural beliefs have also done good in the world. Community is anything and anywhere two or more join together in a common cause.

5. The title of this debate is "What good reason is there to believe in any religion?" Where did Jesus enter the fray and why is He not a good enough reason to believe, if one believes in his teachings? You hadn't mentioned Him in your title.

1. The first goes last! You say nobody needs answers. People need food and air. We NEED food and air to exist but we require and need answers in order to live, learn, question and grow.

So now, what good reason is there to believe in any religion? The first one for me is that I am not alone in this vast universe and that someone, much greater than myself guides me. The second is that believing as I do, I can do no harm if I practice my religion. The third is that I have a purpose here during my journey on Earth and that letting go of power and what I alone want for myself will allow me to discover where I truly belong. Not just in one place, but in all the places I may be and all the lives I touch and that touch me. For me, those are great reasons to believe what I do and the best thing is, you don't have to agree. The only thing that would be nice is that you might understand.

Side: There are enough
1 point

Very good Rev. I like your courage, you're absolutely right, especially your third point. Of course you know by now arguements against god quickly disappear as they're down voted to somewhere, I'm assuming hell.

I think it's more noble to be a good person while not believing in a god, not looking for a reward, and not out of some indoctrinated fear of a hell. The idea that one would just turn into some selfish evil person without a daddy in the sky watching over them is insulting to the human character.

I think it's more the case that people act in such a way as society deems they should act, by what is in their genetic nature, and how they were raised - whether bad or good. And people simply mold their religious beliefs to justify this, and to recruit others to act in a similar fashion.

It's true I think that if there were not a god, we would invent one. I just think everyone would be better off if we stopped inventing gods and took some responsibility.

Side: There isn't one
1 point

i agree . if there is a god then he is a hipicrit . and if he did create the universe the who created god . as louis pasture proved spontanious generation does not exist . so yea

Side: There isn't one
1 point

I agree. Religion definitely fulfills deep needs for many people.

In fact, I think secularists should come up with some alternative to religion. Something that offers easy answers, community coherence, moral guidance, etc, etc.

Pardon my arrogance, but sheep will always need a shepherd.

Side: There are some
2 points

Mythology was about stories that explain things people could not. Even things they knew about they created gods for. Mythology was all about the sharing of the story and the spreading of creative ideas. Religion took that over and has now been perverted into a place where people honestly and truly believe the stories of their chosen religion to be absolute fact. For a rational, advanced human being to believe what amounts to Aesop's Fables: The Extended Edition is anything more than pure parable is mind boggling.

Side: There isn't one
1 point

I don't think there is one. That's why I started this debate.

Side: There isn't one

Well, that way, if there is a God, you can say, "Hey, I tried!"

Side: There isn't one
RevFred(349) Disputed
1 point

Your the only one that answered my question properly Joe. Thank you. That doesn't mean I agree with it though.

Belief, for the fear/hope that it is true, is impossible. There are a lot of religions out there. You can't use this method with all of them because christianity says that you can have no other gods, as many other religions do.

I've heard preachers and reverends say that this is the, "Insurance policy believers" and that," God will know who truly believes when their time comes".

The fear of a story being true, in my opinion, is not a good reason to believe, because I would be too worried about many different conflicting stories of fiction, that I could never appease, if that were my method of discerning facts.

Side: There isn't one

Well then you would love my religion. It is basically tailored to your belief system so that it is easy to convert to and you're guaranteed a seat in heaven so the "fear" factor is removed. It's great! I call it, "Joeism." Wanna join?

Side: There isn't one
0 points

What?!?! You don't agree with me? Man! you're a tough nut to crack! ;)

Side: There isn't one
1 point

I like that you're going through and shooting down everyone's answers, and doing a great job of it. It's Fantastic, I wanna play.

First there are four basic premises I think you'll agree with, they're all pretty well supported by philosophers, nothing new here. They're important to my game though.

1. creation by it's barest definition is impossible for the human mind. This is a fact. Anything which seems original or new is a combination, exageration, mix, or down-scaling of something that we have observed through one of our five senses. Try if you like, come up with a new animal, ignoring that animals are not original in and of themselves, even the wildest imaginations will only come up with pieces or parts of other animals they've seen and combine them, or perhaps The Blob, maybe mixing in a carrot tail or something, you get the point. The whole is new, but broken down all the pieces can be traced to something observed.

2. Our senses, and even science, is limited as to what we can and have observed. ie. we have never seen infinity, "all powerfull," or god. (yes, not observing god is part of my arguement for god... go figure)

3. We have a beginning, and so it is impossible for us to imagine infinity backwards. Try that as well, the mind will always reach for an absolute beginning, a point of nothingness from which something came to be, much like our own birth.

4. We can however imagine in some sense infinity forward, not ever dying that is.

Now we have to keep in mind that everyone to some extent has been indoctrinated to accept a god that just always has been, without beginning. Most have never thought about the implications of this, it was simply accepted at a young age and so almost impossible to shake. For a moment though try and imagine this idea of a god just always being never entered in any way your conscious.

So then, how did that first person think of the idea of something that simply had always been? If that does not seem like a huge stretch for the human imagination, you did not try hard enough to imagine infinite backwards. It is impossible to imagine something simply having always been. Yet at some point we came up with this idea.

Since it is impossible for us to simply imagine such an idea on our own, then we must have some real sense of something that simply has always been. We call that something god, and attribute human characteristics and behaviors to him. We then make him in our image in our vanity.

Religion claims there is this thing we call god, thus a good reason to believe in some religion.

Side: There isn't one
1 point

religion is a reason for grown people to fight over who has the best imaginary friend

Side: There are enough

The decision is up to the beholder. Some people want to believe and find happiness.

Side: There are enough
0 points

Well, i don't believe in any religion, but it has done a lot of good for most people.

Hell, i've had to deal with a lot of people who probably would have killed themselves if they didn't think that everything they go through was part of some kind of plan (cops and firefighters).

Psychologically, people can't handle the thought of being entirely alone. They would actually prefer a cruel God over no God because at least there's something that's making it all happen, that there's the thought of them not being picked or maybe helped. They don't want to think that there is no balance.

Religion usually preaches people to save themselves and to do good to others, which if you look at the psyche of man in a whole, it helps a lot in controlling a society.

Now, in a country controlled by the elites (maybe Plato's Republic), we wouldn't need religion, but the people wouldn't be free.

Even though there are those who are "slaves" to religion, the idea of believing in what they believe in is what makes them free. Even if they are going under the law of a higher moral authority, they still have a divine free will as men.

I prefer the masses to be slaves to religion than for the masses and people like me (non-religious, non-elitist) to be slaves under the elite.

Side: There are some
RevFred(349) Disputed
1 point

You are giving me the benefits of belief and not the reasons for beliefs.

Side: There isn't one
ThePyg(6756) Disputed
2 points

benefits are usually good reasons for many... you're not the only person in this world.

Side: There are some