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Debate Score:32
Arguments:74
Total Votes:36
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 What is Justice? (26)

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Amarel(5000) pic



What is Justice?

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2 points

Justice is When strength, intelligence, and beauty prevails over weakness, stupidity and uglyness.

Amarel(5000) Clarified
1 point

We will finally see Justice when the supreme race conquers the rest?

TzarPepe(793) Clarified Banned
1 point

In other words...

Justice is God

1 point

Actually that is when there is total lack of justice and absolutely no protection of the vulnerable whatsoever.

marcusmoon(582) Clarified
1 point

Justice is When strength, intelligence, and beauty prevails over weakness, stupidity and uglyness.

What do we do, then, about ugly truths?

2 points

I AM JUSTICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

2 points

Good question, but difficult to discuss without synonyms.

Justice is founded on the right to self-ownership, and the primacy of the individual under the law. Justice depends on the individual to be held accountable always and only for his/her own actions.

Ideally this is the basis for man-made law, which is contrived for the purpose of setting up social contracts in order to enable people to create stable societies.

In order to be just, man-made laws must protect the person and property of the individual, and enforce freely accepted contracts and responsibilities without regard rank, group identity, incidental characteristics, or anything but individual action and merit.

Justice is the protection and enforcement of this equality of individuals under man-made law.

Justice ensures that the social contracts of man-made law are enforced evenly, and without respect to rank or group identity, but only upon freely made individual actions.

Justice supports equality of opportunity, but not equality of outcome.

The thing that Hillary is not facing! Justice is the fair punishment of everyone according to a set of laws and penalties. Laws and federal regulations Hillary has managed to break as Secretary Of State. Their is only justice for those who can not afford to pay everyone off to shut them up, justice is made to fuck over everyone not making a million dollars a month/ year. Justice is a unfair and unequal system that needs revised not that it is fucked up but their are changes that could be made to make it better.

NathanAllen human rights activist. Be yourself and let no one tell you otherwise! Find me on CreateDebate at http://www.createdebate.com/user/viewprofile

or at DebateIsland at http://www.debateisland.com/profile/NathanAllen

Proud Trump supporter and an American fighting war lord!

Amarel(5000) Clarified
2 points

So you’re upset that Hillary isn’t facing Justice. But you also believe that Justice is unfair. So if it’s unfair, why should anyone face it? Do you like Justice, or hate it?

1 point

You really are an idiot. I sometimes wonder if you are a troll. Then I remember trolls do not make it far enough to get 1k points.

excon(12882) Banned
1 point

Hello A:

Justice is one of those things that we WANT to happen, but don't DO enough to INSURE that it DOES happen..

Let's just take the McKesson case.. The DEA said they are single handedly RESPONSIBLE for the opioid epidemic, yet they can't touch 'em...

Didn't hear about that??? Watch 60 Minutes from last Sunday..

excon

Amarel(5000) Clarified
1 point

Justice is one of those things that we WANT to happen, but don't DO enough to INSURE that it DOES happen.

So you want Justice to happen but you don’t think we do enough to insure that it does. Since there are a lot of things like that, and they aren’t all the same, what is Justice?

As for McKesson, start a separate debate.

excon(12882) Clarified Banned
1 point

Since there are a lot of things like that, and they aren’t all the same, what is Justice?

Hello again, A:

Justice isn't like mayonnaise.. If we NEVER had mayonnaise, we'd STILL be here.. But, WITHOUT justice, we're DOOMED.

Indeed! McKesson getting away with drugging America while, the little drug dealer goes to jail, is at the heart of this discussion about justice.. Do you think McKesson is any LESS a drug dealer because they're incorporated and their exec's wear suits???

If you DIDN'T see the head DEA cop on 60 minutes exposing this scandal, check it out..

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/whistleblowers-dea-attorneys-went-easy-on-mckesson-the-countrys-largest-drug-distributor/

excon

excon(12882) Banned
1 point

What is Justice?

Hello A:

Justice is like an orgasm.. You can't describe it, but you know when you've had it..

excon

Amarel(5000) Clarified
1 point

What are you a lawyer? Why don’t you think about it, and post after you have a more clear and articulable idea of what you think Justice is.

1 point

I guess...

The practice of negating a negative action by doling out a positive action to equal conformity in either social standard or law.

That may not make sense.....hm...I don't believe in eye for an eye in most cases which I think is a tricky thing to balance.

Justice may be....a thief comes into my house, steals my things and gets caught. Justice would be that he goes to prison and is made to pay monetarily for the items he stole. The negation would be him replacing the items he stole, the added bonus would be his removal from society temporarily. If he wasn't put in jail but was made to do some community service, I would be fine with that as well.

Amarel(5000) Clarified
1 point

The practice of negating a negative action by doling out a positive action to equal conformity in either social standard or law.

Thank you for taking the topic seriously. I like this response. It is in line with the image of Lady Justice who holds the scales. You might say that Justice is moral equilibrium in social interaction. If someone takes a criminally immoral action (defined by written law) against another, then the scales are out of balance and moral equilibrium is lost. In common terms, seeking Justice is seeking moral equilibrium. Negating the negative.

If an eye for an eye is not taken literally, then it is a useful analogy for the idea that a punishment should fit the crime. Often our criminal justice system is not concerned with reparations to the victim, rather it focuses on punishment for the offender. Correcting this would be useful, and in keeping with the idea that the people are sovereign (though this is a somewhat different topic).

I think people often make the mistake of thinking the Justice system defines what Justice is, when really is seeks ways to discover it.

1 point

Thank you, I'm glad you understood what I was trying to say, I wasn't sure I was clear enough. I agree with your assessment too. An eye for an eye, when not taken literally, is very useful in many circumstances but one must make sure they don't cross over from justice to vengeance.

1 point

In my mind it is a fair, equivalent return for what you have done, either negative or positive. If you have helped somebody it would be just to receive the same level of help in return.

Amarel(5000) Clarified
1 point

I appreciate that you include the positive in your view. I think there’s something to it. But help for help seems similar to an eye for an eye. Could it be more appropriate if less literal?

Do you find it an injustice if someone helps many other people anonymously and never receives the same?

1 point

I think help for help and eye for an eye are both 'fair' and to me this makes them just. My definition of justice is basically what's fair.

"Could it be more appropriate if less literal?"

I'm not quite sure what that question means.

"Do you find it an injustice if someone helps many other people anonymously and never receives the same?"

Yes, I believe it is unjust and unfair that someone spends their life being generous only to never have that returned to them.

I would say that justice is when bad things happen to bad people or good things happen to good people, like karmic justice or something.

1 point

Justice is the punishment of someone who commits a crime against you or the redress of grievances..........................................................

Amarel(5000) Clarified
1 point

To you, punishment means retribution, is that correct? What do you believe is an appropriate redress of grievances?

Sitar(3682) Clarified
1 point

Certain crimes demand certain punishment. My rapist should be punished with life no parole................................................................................................

marcusmoon(582) Clarified
1 point

Justice is the punishment of someone who commits a crime against you or the redress of grievances.

How does one determine whether a punishment is just in scale and scope?

What distinguishes punishment and redress from vengence? That line is drawn by justice.

TzarPepe(793) Banned
1 point

There is only one that is just, and that is God. The only Justice is God.

Perfect Justice

Sitar(3682) Disputed
1 point

Christians can be just as well...........................................................................................................

TzarPepe(793) Clarified Banned
0 points

My son, forget not my law;

but let thine heart keep my commandments:

for length of days, and long life, and peace,

shall they add to thee.

Let not mercy and truth forsake thee:

bind them about thy neck;

write them upon the table of thine heart:

so shalt thou find favour and good understanding

in the sight of God and man.

Trust in the Lord with all thine heart;

and lean not unto thine own understanding.

In all thy ways acknowledge him,

and he shall direct thy paths.

Be not wise in thine own eyes:

fear the Lord, and depart from evil.

It shall be health to thy navel,

and marrow to thy bones.

Honour the Lord with thy substance,

and with the firstfruits of all thine increase:

so shall thy barns be filled with plenty,

and thy presses shall burst out with new wine.

My son, despise not the chastening of the Lord;

neither be weary of his correction:

for whom the Lord loveth he correcteth;

even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.

Happy is the man that findeth wisdom,

and the man that getteth understanding.

For the merchandise of it is better than the merchandise of silver,

and the gain thereof than fine gold.

She is more precious than rubies:

and all the things thou canst desire are not to be compared unto her.

Length of days is in her right hand;

and in her left hand riches and honour.

Her ways are ways of pleasantness,

and all her paths are peace.

She is a tree of life to them that lay hold upon her:

and happy is every one that retaineth her.

The Lord by wisdom hath founded the earth;

by understanding hath he established the heavens.

By his knowledge the depths are broken up,

and the clouds drop down the dew.

My son, let not them depart from thine eyes:

keep sound wisdom and discretion:

so shall they be life unto thy soul,

and grace to thy neck.

Then shalt thou walk in thy way safely,

and thy foot shall not stumble.

When thou liest down, thou shalt not be afraid:

yea, thou shalt lie down, and thy sleep shall be sweet.

Be not afraid of sudden fear,

neither of the desolation of the wicked, when it cometh.

For the Lord shall be thy confidence,

and shall keep thy foot from being taken.

Withhold not good from them to whom it is due,

when it is in the power of thine hand to do it.

Say not unto thy neighbour,

Go, and come again, and to morrow I will give;

when thou hast it by thee.

Devise not evil against thy neighbour,

seeing he dwelleth securely by thee.

Strive not with a man without cause,

if he have done thee no harm.

Envy thou not the oppressor,

and choose none of his ways.

For the froward is abomination to the Lord:

but his secret is with the righteous.

The curse of the Lord is in the house of the wicked:

but he blesseth the habitation of the just.

Surely he scorneth the scorners:

but he giveth grace unto the lowly.

The wise shall inherit glory:

but shame shall be the promotion of fools.

and

But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; to declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Justice. The quality of being conforming to truth, fact, reason, impartiality in a manner which is fair.

Amarel(5000) Clarified
2 points

This sort of compels another question; what is fair ?

1 point

I'd say justice is the idea of applied fairness and righteousness. In practice this means that actions with negative consequences for others are made to have negative consequences for the actor. It also means that legal agreements (contracts) are upheld. In other words, people should get what they deserve if justice is upheld.

How would you describe justice?

Amarel(5000) Clarified
1 point

I try to avoid the word “fair” when discussing Justice. It seems to paint no clearer a picture.

People getting what they deserve is one way to put it. I see Justice as the maintaining of moral balance. This is most often applied to human interactions, but I find it philosophically applicable even to the hermit, insofar as the hermit can take wrong action that is self-detrimental, but can take measures to correct his error. Justice is the moral correction.

WinstonC(1226) Clarified
1 point

"I try to avoid the word “fair” when discussing Justice. It seems to paint no clearer a picture.

People getting what they deserve is one way to put it."

I feel that if you get what you deserve you were treated fairly. I find both words rather vague and open to interpretation but better words to describe it escape me (short of checking the definition). I suppose this is apt given that people hold idiosyncratic ideas of which punishments are correct for any given crime.

"I see Justice as the maintaining of moral balance... the hermit can take wrong action that is self-detrimental, but can take measures to correct his error. Justice is the moral correction."

So justice to you is any corrective action in response to an immoral act? What is injustice then?

marcusmoon(582) Clarified
1 point

Hi Amarel,

People getting what they deserve is one way to put it.

This leaves us with the problem of determining what one justly deserves. Deserve paints no clearer picture than does fair.

-1 points

.................................................................................................

Amarel(5000) Clarified
2 points

And if no class of people are oppressed, does the Justice system go away?