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Feminism is appropriately defined only when it is the fight for equal rights. If it's not then it becomes, female chauvinism. Personally, chivalry is a noble act. It can be a female or a male's act. It is only important to treat a lady of an equal.
Well.. I don't know why you would say that. I'm a feminist, but I do not believe if I might have created any such problem except for fighting for my right when I don't get it by the honest ways.
There are certain Feminist ethics I do not believe in. But, it is mostly the offence taken by the Men.
I don't think many modern feminists are deliberately trying to put females above males, but unfortunately that's what they often end up doing.
Feminism had an important role to play in the past. It was necessary to raise awareness of female inferiority back in an age when women were relegated to the back stage and often forgotten about. But its role is long over - women's rights are now at the forefront of everybody's minds.
What we need these days is not a feminist movement, which caters only for women and usually neglects others, but an anti-sexist movement that promotes the rights of all sexes and discourages all sex-based discrimination.
Traditional gender roles is one of the foremost issues an anti-sexist movement should tackle. People shouldn't be told that they need to think and act in a particular way because of their sex.
Chivalry shouldn't be abolished - it's always good to be mannerly - but its sex-specific rules should be abandoned. Women shouldn't have a problem with holding the door for a man.
I disagree. They clearly are deliberately trying (and successfully) to elevate females above males, as far as possible. If they actually wanted equality, they would address (on an urgent basis) the gender education gap. The fact that they refuse to even acknowledge it, let alone mention it as a problem shows that they intentionally want to put females above males.
I think their failure to address this problem doesn't really show they're trying to put women above men; what it shows is that they simply aren't concerned about men's problems. They don't care about gender gaps where women are above men. They only care when it's a matter of men above women. Apathy is different from outright malevolence, although both can be just as harmful.
I thought that was absolutely brilliant, and highlighted what I agree to be the real core of the issue, I couldn't have agreed more. Though typically I am not one to challenge the validity of labels and titles people go by, as I typically find the notion silly to try to redefine a whole group, but it seems the terminology "feminist" is the wrong way to go at it, the anti-sexist movement idea is much more favorable, and I must say I am as much a feminist as I am a "masculinist". Your arguments are one of the most agreeable arguments I've come across.
EDIT: and I just realized this was posted about 700 days ago... XD.
The actual description of a feminist is somebody who fights for equal rights. But I often find that isn't the case, to the point that it's hypocritical. They argue men shouldn't demean woman by saying things such as 'woman should be in the kitchen' yet they seem to think it's okay to put childish stereotypes on men 'grooming isn't manly it's queer' and 'men aren't sensitive'.
The problem with feminists is that they think they are fighting for every female alive and doing them a favour. But some women like being a housewife and a mother. I do, it doesn't make my fiance a chauvinist. It doesn't make me weak or tepid. We can just afford for me to be at home with my daughter.
I'm rather glad that you find yourself comfortable as a housewife. The problem is that some don't and they are forced to. Those are the kind of people feminists fight for. I wouldn't include you in the league. But some need help. There still are chauvinists. That is a fact.
I'm not always a housewife. I study. That's only a recent thing and it's only term time and part-time. I have 12 weeks off now to be a housewife and full time mother, I love it. I didn't deny that people are forced into being home makers and I understand what feminists fight for but their arguments are too broad and generalized. A lot of woman get a large amount of satisfaction and gratitude out of being a housewife and mother.
I also did not deny that chauvinists did not exist. However, apart from in cases of abuse (mental and physical) and religious stigma there is little reason why a woman can't just leave her mundane housewife life with her chauvinistic pig of a husband. She's choosing to stay, perhaps direct a campaign to encourage woman that there are better options in life would be a more suitable alternative.
I do understand that certain ethics that feminists propagate are a little out of the hand. But, I find it very wrong to think bad of them. I'm a feminist and I understand what I'm supporting. I also do case studies and I know what it is like. In fact most of the Women are victims. I'm glad that you are not and you do not complain either. So it is a good thing. In fact, your studying and you handle a lot since you find subjective pleasure in taking care of your kid. And I know that, this kind of care is high today. But, I also add that it is not just the job of the mother. Though, if mothers take such responsibilities, it is a better story but they ought not to be blamed like it always happens.
perhaps direct a campaign to encourage woman that there are better options in life would be a more suitable alternative.
I'm sorry. I appreciate your suggestion immensely. But, I would not tell a lady what she should do. She has suffered enough and has been told all the time what to do. It is her choice now. That she is wise enough to choose, wise enough to know what to do. As a feminist I'm simply going to fight for her right unless of'course there is a condition of mental imbalance or personal abruptness.
I don't think badly of them, I think badly of the large generalization they make and assumptions that all woman feel the same way.
But, I also add that it is not just the job of the mother. Though, if mothers take such responsibilities, it is a better story but they ought not to be blamed like it always happens.
I know, just because a woman is a housewife and takes care of the child doesn't mean the father doesn't contribute. My fiance works 40 hours a week comes home plays, baths and feeds our daughter. He's gutted he can't spend more time with her. I'm sorry but if a woman chooses not to work while their partner does it's just common courtesy to clean up the house. If a man stayed at home while the woman worked and did nothing they'd be classified as lazy why should it be different for a female?
I'm sorry. I appreciate your suggestion immensely. But, I would not tell a lady what she should do.
That's not what I suggested at all. I suggested encouragement of woman to leave miserable sexist situations. Isn't that what feminists do? Encourage woman to take a stand against sexism and fight for it? I fail to see how my suggestion is any different.
It is her choice now. That she is wise enough to choose, wise enough to know what to do
Exactly, so if she chooses to stay in a 'sexist' situation why do feminists tell them their decision is wrong? (I'm disregarding abusive relationships, law and religious stigma because I know how hard it is to escape).
I agree that there are 'some', only some feminists that have a generalized idea. That is wrong. I do not say that it's not.
If a man stayed at home while the woman worked and did nothing they'd be classified as lazy why should it be different for a female?
I wouldn't agree with anything better. You sure are right. It is about the rights of Women. And that way it does not mean to cut down on her duties. Just sharing is important. But, that is not how it is everywhere and most most commonly not. Believe it or not but the value for a man's job is still of more importance than a Woman.
Encourage woman to take a stand against sexism and fight for it?
Yeah.. That's what feminists do. I must have made a mistake in understanding.
Exactly, so if she chooses to stay in a 'sexist' situation why do feminists tell them their decision is wrong?
Okay.. I do not agree with this point and I can also reason. I've done case studies. Y feminists are encouraged to propagate against sexist situations is not cuz morally we find it right. But, sexist situations include suppression of female thoughts, ideas and suggestions. I'm sure your not a part of it. But, that is common. Sexist situations sometimes decline the female rights of practicing her daily routine only cuz the love of her life says not to. N hence she sacrifices. These are just very few. Nonetheless, disregarding our personal view the kids in the family are badly effected, the health of the women is effected, she loses her confidence, sometimes gets into depression and still refuses to accept the feminist ideals.
To lead a life, happily as a housewife is different from losing yourself. Those are the situations where most commonly feminists stress on their ideals.
(I'm disregarding abusive relationships, law and religious stigma because I know how hard it is to escape).
You are right. Not just is it hard mentally but also physically. Even if it is not a domestic torture, it is proven how women decline in their health. It is brutal and cruel.
Feminists achieved legal equality decades ago (a good thing), and currently have legal superiority. Yet, they are still fighting. There is nothing left other than even greater female superiority.
I really have to disagree. Female superiority was never achieved. Women even today face discrimination; Sexually, maritally. Even today, in the urban of America the Mother is blamed for the wrongs of a kid.
I'm just talking of America. The other non American Women face further discrimination. And it is worse in other states. Feminism is yet an important element. It cannot be ignored.
Men are also discriminated against...whats your point???? a bunch of black guys rob a bank. I go in an elevator a white women suddenly puts her purse tight under her arm. some Stupid white women dont know that im already loaded (which would lead me to believe women are more judgemental and snobby when i experience this scenario more)......And im not like my other counterparts. But...If you cant identify with her something is wrong with you. If a member of group is known to have a bad repuation of some sort...ITS NATURAL to stray away from them. Which makes stereotypes. Some of which are partially true. And feminists often try to do their best to emasculate man and de-femenize women. For example..its true that the speech section of the female brain is more developed. As opposed to society making them so. Let men be Men Let women be Women. Though i admit society does have its faults in rearing boys And girls. And feminists always try to play the victim (sounds pretty subordinate) but thats another story.
a bunch of black guys rob a bank. I go in an elevator a white women suddenly puts her purse tight under her arm.
Yes... But, it is different! That is racism. It is a completely different aspect of discrimination. And, No it isn't right.
some Stupid white women dont know that im already loaded
It could also be a man in the same situation. Racism, in it's extremes is practiced by not just the women but also the Men folk.
(which would lead me to believe women are more judgemental and snobby when i experience this scenario more)
This is only once perhaps twice or thrice or a little more than that. There are all types of women. Some who are judgmental and some who are rather understanding depending on the factors that are determinants for men as well.. So what you are blaming women to be blamed for could be the factors very much in relevance with males as well.
And feminists often try to do their best to emasculate man and de-femenize women.
You know... You don't realize you are doing it but you are stereotyping feminists here. There are certain feminist agencies who do not deal with the core issues. But, there agencies who do. Like domestic violence, or female infanticide, or the issue of traditional re-marriage as unacceptable practice in certain areas. Or forceful abortions, rapes(In a different context) and etc.
Let men be Men Let women be Women.
But, that is yet more difficult I can bet. Because... Men in several parts of the World do not let Women just be. Don't you think it is carried down? It is still not balanced...
Lets not just talk of how women stereotype here. It's not just women. It's anybody. It's society. But, female discrimination is only women. Feminism is not about female superiority, it's about equality.
Are you speaking of feminists in general or are you speaking of the vast majority? My first example is to show what I believe feminism is founded upon. Other than I agree with everything you said-but the fact that the feminism also encourages the increased masculinity and false-manhood that make most "normal" men panic when they hear the title, is enough evidence to show how unhealthy most of it is. majority of Feminism is about equality in name only. Actions speak louder than words. I believe they were successful in making the law courts (in particular ,divorce) biased towards women. Only time men receive custody is is when the woman is an absolute psycho. While some men are suffering the loss, and pain of not being able to see their children. Not to mention the number of women that use their snake-like lawyers to steal the man of his well-earned money. She tells lies in court, then the man gets mad- then the judge sees the side of him that the ex-wife fabricated. Though I admit there are many that simply wanted sex. But they too are like this for a reason I heard a conversation that went something like this between my cousin and his Neanderthal-like buddies. Jerry-" Women are evil. Cant trust them." Buddies- LolLOLOLOL jerry- "I'm serious. one of the main reasons I dint have steady relationships with women is because they claim to love you, then they rip you off of all your money- And the sistas dint sign pre-numptial agreements!" He put a little cussing hear and there, and a little crude colloquialisms but yeah thats what he said..... I believe feminism has made women -cunning and deceitful.
I believe feminism has made women -cunning and deceitful.
How is that different from men who actually cheat in marriage or those who marry for sex or money. There are such cases. What I'm only trying to say is that it is just not that evil dwells in women alone. That happens to be very exclusively for both the genders. So if there are women cunning and deceitful, there are also men of equal deceit.
My first example is to show what I believe feminism is founded upon.
Trust me... What you presume isn't right! Feminism in fact is based on strict ethics. It was founded for the harshest of reasons. If you believe that feminism is based on women who are judgmental. And there, not all women are judgmental.
If we begin to base our assumptions on thoughts like those. We will fail to relate to any cause related programme or community. Even Antisemitism or Apartheid. Loom don't take it as an offense. But, I'm only explaining what could and what has caused to feminism.
Actions speak louder than words
There are still so many actions that prey women.
Other than I agree with everything you said
I'm glad that you do...
the fact that the feminism also encourages the increased masculinity and false-manhood that make most "normal" men panic
I'm sorry... But, that kinda cracked me up! Lol... Well, yes. To that I agree. There are certain agencies that lead to negative Jackpot.
I believe they were successful in making the law courts (in particular ,divorce) biased towards women. Only time men receive custody is is when the woman is an absolute psycho. While some men are suffering the loss, and pain of not being able to see their children. Not to mention the number of women that use their snake-like lawyers to steal the man of his well-earned money. She tells lies in court, then the man gets mad- then the judge sees the side of him that the ex-wife fabricated.
And yes all that happens. But, within strict feministic ideologies. Agencies must have zero involvement in a female's personal issues such as custody, inheritance and etc.
Though I do understand that what you mean is not regarding the direct agencies affect but how it has influenced. But, I feel that is just society with it's share of both good and bad people. So it's rather not a right idea to blame feminists for it. It is after all established for a good reason.
''Men in some countries do not let women be'' Yet many of your kind, treat the anglosphere as if they force women under Sharia Law, that they mutilate female genitalia, doing what I did... While against stereotyping made a steretype myself. Feminism in theory is good, but in practice has proved to be full of utter bullshit. You can have the same ideals of equality etc. Without bringing images of man-hating lesbianic whores to a person's mind. This is what feminism is mostly associated with, and a discerning man or woman should have no part in it. Take the positive leave the good. I dont go around saying im a masculinist or some shit like that do I?
I think we need to redefine equality.Think about it what is superior the apple or the grape? The doctor or the garbage collector? they both serve their purpose. The garbage collector makes the doctors' job easier. but when there are no garbage collectors, you have a crisis. For me feminism is garbage for putting the notion in the grape's head that they are somehow disrespectful for understanding that they are grapes not apples. You can't -I meanshouldn't change Nature this is pr oven time and time again. Though I agree that men take it to the extreme, (domestic violence etc) Feminism is another extreme. And extremes are not good.
