CreateDebate is a social debate community built around ideas, discussion and democracy.
If this is your first time checking out a debate, here are some quick tips to help get you started:
Arguments with the highest score are displayed first.
Argument replies (both in favor and in opposition) are displayed below the original argument.
To follow along, you may find it helpful to show and hide the replies displayed below each argument.
To vote for an argument, use these icons:
You have the power to cast exactly one vote (either up or down) for each argument.
Once you vote, the icon will become grayed out and the argument's score will change.
Yes, you can change your vote.
Debate scores, side scores and tag scores are automatically calculated by an algorithm that primarily takes argument scores into account.
All scores are updated in real-time.
To learn more about the CreateDebate scoring system, check out the FAQ.
When you are ready to voice your opinion, use the Add Argument button to create an argument.
If you would like to address an existing argument, use the Support and Dispute link within that argument to create a new reply.
It's actually likelier that we're a simulation created by a previous intelligent species that has appeared to gain consciousness; statistically with a higher probability than there being either a God or no God. Although you could then ask if our creators' Universe has a God, but we then wouldn't be referring to our own reality.
I started a business in my 20s, retired in my 30s, and I live in OKC and Tulsa, and am called an idiot by jobless clowns living with their mommies who rather than learn skills and how to make money, demand a system that puts them on the titt.
You do not know me but I have zero shame in admitting I am a mommy's boy more than a daddy's boy or a 'on my own' kinda guy. My mother is very much a person that matters to me in life and when/if I'm rich enough my mother may well live with me for the rest of her life if she wants (not me living with her, her with me). I got a sibling but they're much less competitive than me in general and are unlikely to compete with me over who gets to be 'the one' to take care of my mother. I don't give a single shit what you know of me or think about me, you don't know my struggle or what I believe other than what I tell you and what your preconceived notions are.
I am not fucking Factmachine twitching away on a camera rapping in some fucking attic. I am also not rich. I am on my way in this world doing what I can, I don't need a prick like you judging me. I can and have had job(s). I don't need to justify a thing to you.
I don't give a single shit what you know of me or think about me, you don't know my struggle
My legs were hit by shrapnel in war, and had to be cut off. I have no empathy for mouthy kids claiming to be in a struggle because they aren't able or willing to buck up. Especially when they claim to be geniuses.
So you are to be taken as speaking the truth? Why do you only think you're entitled to say what happened to you or what you're worth and we believe you? Why won't you believe what I say about me? Nice try, I may not have lost my leg but I have other struggles and scars.
You do not know me but I have zero shame in admitting I am a mommy's boy more than a daddy's boy or a 'on my own' kinda guy. My mother is very much a person that matters to me in life and when/if I'm rich enough my mother may well live with me for the rest of her life if she wants (not me living with her, her with me). I got a sibling but they're much less competitive than me in general and are unlikely to compete with me over who gets to be 'the one' to take care of my mother. I don't give a single shit what you know of me or think about me, you don't know my struggle or what I believe other than what I tell you and what your preconceived notions are.
I am not fucking Factmachine twitching away on a camera rapping in some fucking attic. I am also not rich. I am on my way in this world doing what I can, I don't need a prick like you judging me. I can and have had job(s). I don't need to justify a thing to you.
Man discovered Religion, just like Science, Philosophy, Math, etc..
God created everything Logic, Reason, Knowledge, Sentience, Sapience, etc..
Man simply discovers these things, not creates them.
Man often does a bad job of describing things yes. You got a good point there. Just look how long it took man to figure out 0+1=1, duh!
just because Man does something wrong or badly doesn't mean there is something wrong with the discipline/knowledge/field of study, Man is the problem not Religion :P
Yes, God created the laws of existence, the Sciences.
But fellowship with God is not religion. Religion is not fellowship with God.
Man created religion and man subdues his fellow man. Religion is the means of subjugation.
God says Love one another. Don’t kill each other.
If I don’t love my fellow human being or I sin, then I’m breaking fellowship with God. My sin has nothing to do with religion. Religion can’t atone for my sin. My relationship is not with a religion.
My sin if present and is not atoned for through Jesus’ sacrifice, will separate me from God’s fellowship. Religion plays no role in the relationship between God and myself. I the human being must make a choice. Religion has nothing to do with my choice. The choice I must make is to be obedient to God or be disobedient to God. Religion has nothing to do with my relationship with God, the act of whether I am obedient or disobedient to God.
Religion is created, it’s not discovered.
Satan has copy or a counterfeit which substitutes your individual relationship or fellowship with God. That counterfeit is religion. Religion substitutes your personal spiritual responsibility to have fellowship with God.
God created Adam and Eve. Why? For fellowship. God didn't create religion. Satan appeased man’s flesh, and religion came into existence via man's desire to be disobedient to God.
Yes, God created the laws of existence, the Sciences.
So he knew there would be earthquakes, floods, tsunamis, volcanoes, meteors, and lots of other heinous shit which would wipe out scores of completely innocent people for no apparent reason (other than possibly his own amusement)?
Doesn't make much sense to me. Not unless he's a sadistic bastard. Surely, he'd have created a nice fluffy universe where people fall and bounce of the ground instead of having their skulls split open by gravity?
God created the heavens and the earth. God said this is good thing.
God created the Garden of Eden. God said this is good thing.
God created man and woman. God said this is good thing.
I did all this so that I can have fellowship with you, the human being I created.
Then God said, Humankind has dominion over the earth. Its theirs. Be a great steward. Take care of it.
Summary: God created a perfect world without flaws.
No mayhem.
No destruction.
No disasters.
More importantly, no physical fleshly death.
God is perfect. What God creates is perfect.
All the laws in the universe held hands and sang kum by ya.
What happened next?
Well, Satan conned Eve. Eve disobey God. Adam shared in Eve’s disobedience and they both disobeyed God.
Consequences:
Man, no longer has dominion over the earth. His disobedience transfers his authority over the earth to Satan. Worse yet, God places a curse on mankind for his disobedience and a curse on the serpent for his deception. Even worse! Mankind has to work for a living. Oh my God! Capitalism comes in to existence. Just think. If Adam and Eve didn’t disobey, utopian socialism would actually work because God would be the central moral authority taking care of mankind. But I digress. That’s another topic for another time.
Result: Chaos!
Physical death is now a reality.
The earth groans! The earth is no longer a perfect environment. Satan has dominion over the earth. The earth is now under his principality. It belongs to him and Satan defiles the earth.
Ahhhh… Not too worry. God has a plan.
He’ll impregnate Mary. She’ll bore a son, name him Jesus. Jesus will die for mankind. Jesus’s death will be a sacrifice and bring mankind back into the fellowship with God. A fellowship which would fulfil the original reason why God created mankind in the first place a few thousand years ago.
God: Sheez! Just want to be friends. Is that too much ask?
The earth however, we’ll is still in Satan’s domain. None the less humanity is still charged in keeping the earth in good order. It’s going to be a lot of hard work, especially since the earth is no longer in a perfect state.
Summary:
The earth is no longer in a perfect state.
The earth is under Satan’s domain.
God’s curse on man for man’s disobedience doesn’t help either. Thorns and thistles abound in plant life. The ground has to be worked. Pestilence kills crops. The animals don’t like us anymore. Its take domestication in order to gain their trust.
Geeez! Why didn’t Adam and Eve just be obedient? It would have made life so much easier.
The future!
A new heaven.
A new earth!
Earth 2.0
An earth without Satan corrupting it. An earth that is no longer in Satan’s domain. Imagine that! No earthquakes. No floods. No tsunamis. No volcanoes. No meteor impacts. No extra heinous bleep!
Its okay. The one true religion is you. You are your own god. You live and walk on the reality you created. You set yourself up as one true moral authority. Not necessarily a moral authority for all to follow, although many may share commonalities with your moral authority, but rather it’s a moral authority for you alone.
You judge yourself. You weigh what is right and wrong. You have faith in yourself. You alone determine your destiny absent of mythical fairy-tale god that created a world in 7 days.
There just no way that you should answer to a higher power because you are your own higher power. It’s important that you believe this.
There’s nothing I can say that will progress your perception and understanding of the world beyond your flesh’s five senses.
The bible is nothing more than a book of which there are many identical copies of. There is no trueGod, there is no true religion. It's all bullshit. The Romans, the Greeks, both had their own religion, and gods, they took that shit seriously. But now we count it out as mythology. Well what the fuck makes your God real and the other, Mythology?
The Head-Origin: Jesus (c. 4 BC – c. AD 30 / 33), also referred to as Jesus of Nazareth and Jesus The Christ.
Principle Text: The New Testament (The "Gospel": New Law), the Bible includes supporting texts found in the OT for background info (for the Patriarchs, Jews, etc..), but separate and apart from the New Law.
Then again, quantum mechanics has taught us that the universe isn't necessarily what it seems. If one takes Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle into account, it is possible that there are a wide range of answers and all of them are equally true.
so then you know for a scientific fact that there is no God
There is no scientific evidence suggesting there is one. If I told you I've proven objectively that God doesn't exist, would you believe that without evidence as well? If so that was a quick argument.
wouldn't you have to be God in order to make this statement....???
actually there is scientific evidence. however you are free to not believe or disregard any evidence that you deem fit. that's the fun thing about Free Will... :3
this is not what God of the Gaps is.. you should research these terms a bit before you toss them around debate forums.
requiring omniscience to know there is absolutely no existence of an omnipotent being is simple logic. and your view is actually more of an atheism of the gaps, since you are attempting to argue from ignorance... ;)
but enough name calling, how about you refute the ontological argument for starters.. Mr. Smartypants and then when you're done with that try taking a crack on the teleological argument for bonus points :D
The ontological argument is completely flawed. Especially in the video provided explaining it, there are many contradictions and baseless assumptions. I'll run through a few:
1) the video, right off the bat, claims a "maximally great being" could possibly exist; despite no evidence suggesting so. Just because something cannot be definitively proven false, doesn't mean it then becomes definitively true.
2) "all powerful" fallacy. If God was all poweful, could he create an object too heavy for himself to lift? Crumble, crumble..
3) "Morally perfect in every possible world" Morality is subjective and would change in each "possible world", therefore no two Gods in any two "possible worlds" would be the same; this contradicts the end of the video claiming a maximally great being exists in every possible world, since they wouldn't be the same being.
4) claiming a Maximally great being existing in one possible world correlates to one existing in every possible world is the largest reach in the video, which is saying something; there is absolutely nothing to suggest that every possible world is connected to eachother in any way. I'd like to see an argument for why a maximally great being existing in one possibility correlates to one existing in each one. This even contradicts the argument's own assumption that every possible world exists; If this were the case, then a world without a maximally great being would still exist, otherwise it wouldn't be every possible world. There's nothing to suggest a world without a maximally great being isn't logically incoherent, so claiming such would be another baseless assumption. And I prefer to stick with facts, and what's true.
I wrote each argument after only one full watch through and a couple of backtakes. I'm also at work so I was a bit rushed putting this together; however I'm confident this does not prove God exists, so I'll prepare more coherent arguments if you wish.
so then you know for a scientific fact that there is no God...?
No, I'm saying that is the most probable situation based on the currently available data. I assumed your question had to be answered creatively because it is impossible to answer objectively. You would literally have to be God to answer your question objectively.
wouldn't you have to be God in order to make this statement....??
See above. Your question necessitates me to be God in order to answer it objectively.
fair enough, i can work with probabilities. i am an engineer after all... ;)
so what % would you wager that there is probably/not a god?
i understand that none of us can be truly objective, but we can come pretty darn close. which is why i usually start with things like 0+1=1 being 100% True (objectively). with us so far...?
now for more complicated things. how certain are you that you exist? % ?
No I dont know scientifically there is absolutely no God. I do however know, that there is scientifically zero evidence of your God. You dont need to be a God to say there isnt one, that's just common sense thinking, if you go with the fact the only thing that religious people constitute as proof of a God, is a book, of which there are hundreds of copies of.
God= creator of everything and everyone. Right. Just like Poseidon controls the sea, and Ra makes the sun come up every morning, and set every night. Think it's not true? That's because it's not. Its mythology. Just like the God you claim to be more probable, or at least implied, than there being no god.
Makes more sense to go with something we can look at under a microscope with our own eyes, and test theories, and prove, then blindly follow a book that doesn't even prove anything. But I guess that's just logic, it seems harder to come by these days I guess🤷♂️
Let me mention something that I believe separates Christianity from most other religions.
First off, any religion that is man made would have a hard time painting ALL men and women as having an evil human nature and deserving of Hell. Men are an egotistical bunch if you've noticed.
In my mind, the words in the Bible would never be written by men because most human beings think of themselves as basically good people. The Bible says there are no good men, not one. It says without faith in Christi, no one over the age of accountability is deserving of heaven.
The issue of Abortion pretty much proves what the Bible says about there being no good men or women, and not deserving of Heaven.
What man would create a religion that says to turn the other cheek, to forgive even our enemies, to put other's before ourselves, etc.
I believe Christianity to be the one true faith for many reasons, including the reasons just explained.
People not willing to accept God's word as written will twist it to fit their own lifestyles and beliefs.
You will notice how in the past few decades, Liberal Churches have popped up to fit this Progressive Political Correct culture.
We now have Feminist Pro abortion churches, we have Pro Gay Churches with Gay Pastors, we have Churches who deny what the Bible says about homosexuality, we have Churches who say people can get to heaven by supposedly being good (or what the world considers good that is, which includes killing baby's that God says he knows in the womb), we have Churches who believe other religions will go to Heaven, etc. etc.
Basically man made cults where anything goes. What amazes me is that these people refuse to just admit they don't really believe in anything, and simply want to transform Christianity to fit their personal lifestyles. I believe these new age Churches are false Churches who are actually rebelling against God.
Maybe you were speaking to all the different Protestant denominations such as Baptist, Methodist, Pentecostal, etc., or talking about Catholicism.
Most Protestant denominations are Christian because they believe that Christ is the only way to Heaven. They might stress certain parts of the Bible, more than other parts, such as Speaking in Tongues, Baptism, gifts of the spirits, etc.
Catholics do believe that Christ is the way to Heaven but they focus much more on things not in the Bible such as Praying to Mother Mary, having Confessionals, Priests not marrying, etc.
I do not judge Christian denominations for their differences as long as they believe God's word and what it says concerning Christ being the only way to salvation, but when they go against God's word as these new age Liberal Churches are doing, I believe they are false Churches and would never set foot in their four walls.
so does your church have a name? i'd beg to differ on many things you said, though i'd rather just address your specific beliefs and not the big picture of why most people are wrong...
I have gone to many different Christian Churches. People search out Churches that fit their personalities, the type of music they like, the Pastor's personality they can better relate to, etc. etc.
This is how Protestant Churches are unique when compared to Catholic Churches that pretty much are clones of one another.
I have gone to non denominational Churches, Evangelical Churches, etc.
Are you judging me for my Christian beliefs (that come form the Bible), when I speak out against those who would twist our Christian faith?
The world likes to label Christians who actually believe the word of God as being "Fundies", or "Bible believing Christians", say it ain't so, or homophobes, or Zealots, or hatemongers, etc. etc. etc.
I've gone to many Protestant Christian churches, but will never set foot in a Church that does not believe every word in the Bible as being inspired by God, and not simply written by men.
The Left loves to imply that those verses speaking to Homosexuality were written by men, and not God. If we go down this road of picking and choosing which verses to believe, the words in the Bible becomes worthless.
This is how new age Liberal Christian cults are twisting the Bible to fit their beliefs.
there is no Judge but God, though until that day I'd be happy to offer my 2 cents.
i'm glad to hear that you've done the rounds, however i am still unable to ascertain your particular beliefs unless you present them.
labels as inaccurate as they may be, do offer some assistance in not having to re-hash concepts that have already been brought up many times before, unless you subscribe to something New under the sun...? i doubt it.
it's ok to reject most if not all the choices you've been offered so far. but simply attempting to identify as a "christian" without some sort of indication of what doctrines you follow, and therefore what sort of camp that tends to place you in, does us no good. even though i may disagree with my fellow CoCs from time to time, generally speaking i agree with most of what they preach and therefore can you give a point of reference from which to start, without having to rehash my entire life's story and repeat EVERY single belief i hold. do you get it?
an acceptable answer would be. i id as X group but have 1,2,3 objections about some of their beliefs, etc...
let's start with one claim you've made:
I've gone to many Protestant Christian churches, but will never set foot in a Church that does not believe every word in the Bible as being inspired by God, and not simply written by men.
this actually sounds VERY similar to what my extremely ultra-conservative counterparts would claim and insist on...
so i guess you would comfortably ID with them...?
even though i don't share that belief 110%, i can understand the sentiment and at least begin a conversation about it.
would you like to hear some examples?
edit: I've created a new thread just for this topic if you'd like
I'm a Protestant Christian... I do not identify myself as any particular denomination such as Baptist, Pentecostal, Methodist, etc. etc.
Do you read any words in the Bible where Christians were calling themselves any particular type of Christians?
I have no problem with different denominations and understand they give people an idea of what parts of the Bible they more focus on.
There are some Churches that I believe focus too much on certain parts of the Bible, such as Pentecostal and gifts of the spirit.
I agree that people have gift's of the spirit, but do not believe Church services should be fixating completely on these gifts.
They of course have a right to focus on certain parts of the Bible, as long as they are not denying other parts.
I can tell by your words that you have adopted some of the Left's intolerance for so called Conservative "Bible Believing" Christians who actually believe the word of God. OH NO! They believe that the words in the Bible were inspired by God. The Left labels them as ultra Right wing Bible Thumpers...
Why on Earth would any person call himself a Christian and disagree with God's word?
If the words of the Bible are not inspired by God, it is no more than a man made cult.
Who would decide which verses are inspired by God, and which ones by men? Men?
Read this article, it explains it much better than I ever could...
well as a generic "protestant" you are going to find many people in this world who also claim to be protestant with VERY different views/beliefs, which is why i asked.
we no longer live in a world where you can simply identify yourself as "christian" that title has but lost all meaning... sorry
most of the Bible is inspired, NT even more so. however the devil is in the details. most =/= all
Of course the world is full of false Christians who want to twist the Bible to fit their own man made cult. How do you know who are false Christians? By what they believe! If they believe the opposite of what the Bible says, they are false Christians.
Who cares what false Christians say? They are liars, deceivers, willing to twist what the Bible says to further their own political correct cult.
God says you will know a Christian by their love. Do you think a person who supports killing babies, that God says he knows in the womb, is a loving person?
how about those who support the death penalty, are they loving people?
I care about what false "christians" say, because they are heard more often and greatly out-number the true Christians...
How do you know who are false Christians? By what they believe!
AND by what they do... it's a packaged deal.
So if being a true Christian simply requires reading the NT and following it, why are there so many lost people? including false "xians" and disbelievers??? does the NT teach rocket science..?? is the only translation available in Greek..???
Are you serious? When did I ever say reading the Bible leads to real Christians. You wonder why the majority of people read the Bible, and deny it?
It's obvious, they do not want to give up their promiscuous lifestyles.
They don't want to give up the convenience of abortions to cover their promiscuous lifestyles.
They don't want to be separate from the world's self love peer pressure.
To stand up for God means you might lose those worldly friends you party with.
There are a thousand reasons why people would choose to deny God and embrace the world.
God is the one who started the death penalty for certain crimes. God is not against the death penalty for murderers.
I look at the death penalty as something a civilized world does to protect innocent lives from would be murderers. No more powerful statement could ever me made to underscore the sanctity of innocent life.
Yes, I agree that we should care what the false Christians say because they are doing their best to deceive the world. I did not mean it in that respect.
I'm constantly debating false Christians who are helping destroy our culture.
like spanish, chinese and russian? they know the same stuff you know, just in a different language.
if you are referring to self deluded persons who speak gibberish in order to "validate" their religious beliefs, i'm afraid you are incorrect. they know much less than you and are not helping when it comes to religion. we already have enough ignorance in this world, there is no need to keep compounding it.
There is only one religion where those created screwed the pooch and their Creator decided that He loved them so much that He suffered a life of ridicule and persecution, and finally died the most horrible death the Romans could devise so they could be saved.
Now, consider human nature. Is it plausible?
Yes. It is.
Could you imagine a loving Creator doing this?
Again, yes. After all, what loving parent wouldn't give their life to save their child.
The one true religion is the religion that is the OLDEST!!
>> and..... which religion is the OLDEST??? PAGANISM *
Plain and simple.
Yes the Semitic DESERT god has a hold now. It’s because the semite was CLEVER- they have a written text which paganism lacks. But just because something is written doesn’t necessarily mean it’s TRUE! Very convincing- but don’t mean it’s True..
Why did the SEMITE make a written law???
>>> to make SLAVES of the illiterate and CONTROL the sheep..
also a religion's age =/= Truth. a false religion can be older than a true one.
If it's the truth then it's not a religion at all, it's just the truth. A religion is a belief system, objective reality is not. Objective reality is what it is regardless of anyone believing in it, but religions require belief and change according to what people believe. Therefor no religion is truth, and no truth is religious in nature.
