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Debate Score:59
Arguments:34
Total Votes:96
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Genetic predisposition Environmental factors

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geoff(682)
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What is the greater cause of homosexuality?

Nature via nurture?

Genetic predisposition

Side Score: 27
VS.

Environmental factors

Side Score: 32
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2 points

I think both have an influence in homosexuality, but since I had to pick one I am will pick genetics since there has been studies that cannot deny that there is some genetics has an influence in homosexuality.

I read this article about twin studies that was very interesting.

The main conclusions were:

1. No scientist believes genes by themselves infallibly make us behave in specified ways. Genes create a tendency, not a tyranny.

2. Identical twin studies show that neither genetic nor family factors are overwhelming.

3. We can foster or foil genetic or family influences.

4. Change is possible.

Posted 189 days ago
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2 points

Here's the problem with genetic predisposition being the cause of homosexuality.

1. If they are genetically disposed to be gay, they are defective and must be cured.

Posted 188 days ago
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1 point  

Speaking to the issue of physical sexual desire, would anyone seriously contend that heterosexual desire stems from social learning? Absurd.

Given the stigma that is still associated with homosexuality, why would anyone "choose" to desire someone of the same sex? It'd be a hell of a lot easier to do what the majority is doing. You can't choose your desire.

But it's more than just physical desire that makes people fall in love. There is a mental/spiritual component, too. And I think that is also innate, and anyone who tries to label that as an environmental interaction is 'shrinking' what it means to be a human being.

There is an unfortunate tendency among heterosexuals to magnify the sexual dimension of homosexual relationships. Homosexuals seek companionship, security and fulfillment just like everyone else.

Posted 194 days ago
- pic hseldon10(10) Opposed
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3 points

Just because people don't "choose" to be homosexual doesn't mean that homosexuality is not produced by environmental factors.

We didn't "choose" to learn our first language, or to define our ego around our given name, or to recognize our gender role (even straight people), yet none of these are defined genetically either.

The fact is that most of what our brain knows is learned unconciously at a very early age, sometimes even in the womb of our mothers. Homosexuality and heterosexuality alike are unconciously learned behaviors.

You say that "mental/spiritual" components, when constrained to environmental interaction, "shrinks" what it means to be a human being. You don't provide an argument as to why, but I am going to guess that you believe that, spiritually, a human being is more than the sum of its interactions. You are actually quite right. A human being is the fractal multiplication (not the sum) of its interactions. That our mentality can be defined by science does not make me any less human.

On the other hand, adovcating that, since "we are more than our learnings", then humanity must be only whats on our genetic material, and saying that this is more human than the former argument is downright ridiculous. If everything was in our genes (which, mind you, are just a very long strand of protein and acids), then nothing would be left to our minds and souls. Our "spirit" and our "mentality" are not defined genetically. Saying so dehumanizes our species.

Posted 194 days ago
- pic Szechuan(98) Opposed
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0 points

I just want to defend my beliefs of innate predisposition from accusations of "dehumanizing the species."

I have not meant to suggest that human beings are incapable of change, growth and transformation. Of course not. But there is a certain inherent intelligence and potential; an optimal direction for self-actualization. IMHO.

But that doesn't mean I am reducing a human being to a pile of genetic material. On the contrary, I think our genes (as we understand them) are merely the physical manifestation of our presence, and I believe human beings are more than just physical matter (Wow, that sounds flakey).

Then again, how did genetic material get such a bad reputation? If human beings were the only species with DNA, it would be sacred.

Posted 194 days ago
- pic Szechuan(98) Opposed
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0 points

I think you're on really shaky ground here. First of all, it's not possible to demonstrate the action of the Unconscious. Its existence can be inferred, but never proven.The Unconscious concepts I am familiar with are those of Jung and Freud, respectively - and neither ever proposed a role for the Unconscious in physiological development.

It's interesting to speculate on how "deep" the Unconscious might go, but to say, "This is how the brain works," as if you have the report in front of you, is disingenuous at best. If you do have any evidence to support this, I'd be interested to see it.

Posted 194 days ago
- pic jmichaelcb(3) Opposed
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2 points

While I do agree that nature plays a greater causal role in homosexuality than does nurture, I have to disagree with your assertion that heterosexual desire stems from social learning. Many a gay person has spent significant periods of their lives living as straight people. There are two reasons for this both of which are components of social learning. First, almost everyone that they see around them is straight, so they believe that is how they should act. Second, society will extract a penalty for not following its norms. Gay kids learn how to avoid scorn by acting straight. Happily the penalty piece is diminishing.

Posted 190 days ago
- pic Lexfor(124) Favored
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1 point  

I agree. It's not like people choose to be straight, it just happens, there isn't a point in your life where you have to choose between the two. I'm all for having a good time and while I don't think of myself as a homosexual, I keep an open mind.

Posted 193 days ago
- pic geoff(682) Favored
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-1 points

I agree, it's definitely a mixture of nature and nurture with one influencing the other. Not sure about the spiritual component however.

Posted 194 days ago
- pic Szechuan(98) Opposed
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0 points

I don't think nurture enters into it. If people are experimenting with homosexuality, okay.

But if you are acting in accordance with a spontaneously occurring desire, then that's just how you're wired.

Posted 194 days ago
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1 point  

It most likely is primarily genetic. But, regardless of nature or nurture, it is NOT A CHOICE. You can't CHOOSE who you happen to be attracted to. I'm gay and I'm 5 foot 9, and I chose neither my height nor my sexual orientation.

Posted 194 days ago
- pic nrh21208(30) Opposed
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2 points

Why are you gay? Because of genes? Tell us about your childhood? What did your family unit look like?

Posted 193 days ago
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1 point  

I see there being a fundamental misconception in this "choosing" to be gay.

Our brains do, indeed, begin as a near blank slates, and most of our higher functions are learned post-birth (imagine what a Botswana-teenager believes to be a hot-babe versus a Hollywood-fed American teen). We define ourselves and our desires by veiweing others in our cultural context (while chemicals in our brain say "I am horny right now" we then define what to seek under these circumstances... be it a man or a woman... or a skinny or fat or blonde or brunette..black or white).

BUT, thinking that we CHOOSE to be gay, assumes we have an actual point in our childhood where we sit down for a good life-assessment and finally block-in A or B.

My argument is that while our biological disposition cannot yet be definitively proven to favor or not favor being gay- I think that we simply are not conscious of our attractions until a much-later age (perhaps self-awareness of cultural forces defining 'attractive'' occurs in our late-teens) and that any 'damage done' occurs without our fully self-conscious selves not yet being awake.

Our youth and development is on mainly auto-pilot and so a so-called choice is no choice at all- but more a cultural and sociological push- well out of our self-conscious hands until AFTER we are self aware.

Could you un-learn to be gay or straight then? Perhaps, but our youth-development is a hard force to dodge let alone divert completely.

Posted 194 days ago
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1 point  

Personal experience tells me that environmental factors cannot entirely influence someones sexual orientation, but can influence one's views on the subject, thus bringing any genetically caused feeling out into the open. I am an identical twin, I'm gay yet my twin is straight. We are both male, had the same stable upbringing and are very close. Obviously this must be to do with genetics, and the balance of sexual orientation in a person, not their environment.

Posted 187 days ago
- pic kjcmsw(1) Opposed
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1 point  

Since identical twins share exactly 100% DNA, what one has so has the other, genetically speaking. If homosexuality is genetic, then if one identical twin has a "gay gene", then so has the other. Just because identical twins were raised together, doesn't mean they had the "same" environment. There are too many environmental differences & experiences to list here that would account for why one identical twin claims an homosexuality identification and other does not.

Posted 162 days ago
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1 point  

I believe that I was born bi-sexual. I didn't choose it. Whether it's fully genetically determined, or environmentally determined, one's sexual orientation isn't a concious choice. I suspect that orientation is primarily genetic.

Posted 185 days ago
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4 points

This is simply a matter of how the brain works. The brain learns everything it knows, even how to regulate breathing and the pumping of the heart. The only thing found in our genes is the design of how the brain learns and develops, but most of the development of the brain is done through learning. If we learn how to see, how to speak, how to love, and everything about ourselves from our mother, our family and society, then most definitely we learn how to love from them as well, and this includes straight and homosexual loving.

This argument, however, does not advocate that homosexuality is a "disease", because that implies that "normalcy" is in straightness. However, straightness is as randomly concieved and socially constructed as gayness. The reason why there are more straight people than gay people, then? Because straighteness is more socially rewarded. Why? Because it is better for society. Homosexuals cannot produce offspring, and this is our ultimate biological goal, and, yes, our most basic impulses are biological.

However, most of our behavior, though influenced by our most basic influences, are nuanced by social interaction. And so, what our brain learns about loving at an early age will determine later homosexuality or heterosexuality. Thus, both are determined by "environmental factors".

So, this also doesn't mean that anyone "chooses" to be gay or straight. The predisposition is made by our brain in an unconcious way. Still, the defining factors for homosexuality and heterosexuality (both) are learned (also unconciously).

Why? Because this is how the brain works.

Posted 194 days ago
- pic geoff(682) Opposed
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2 points

Lots of behaviour is genetic. Weaver birds can build intricate nests without any instruction for instance. Homosexuals can and do produce offspring - there are many homosexual parents. I can imagine in some countries e.g. Iran there are many parents who are actually homosexual.

Posted 194 days ago
- pic Szechuan(98) Opposed
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1 point  

I don't buy it. Yes, the human body develops in response to the environment on a fundamental level; and yes, social learning at a young age has a huge impact on our relationships later in life (attachment theory), but I would argue that all of these developments occur within the framework of our basic genetic blueprints. IE, we're born with certain potentials, and the environment, and probably chance, too, help to determine what gets filled in and emphasized.

Do you think some children learn to be colorblind? If so, why is Red-Green colorblindness the most common? Red and green are primary colors - I highly doubt any children grow through a critical stage of development without seeing plenty of both of them. Not to mention colorblindness is more common among boys. Are boys at a higher risk of not being exposed to the right colors at the right time?

Posted 194 days ago
- pic nrh21208(30) Opposed
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1 point  

Really...you are certainly confused. I could not beleive this came from SZ after reading your other ignorant posts.

Read the sentence after (attachment theory) where you argue that these 'developments occur within framework of genetic levels.......yet the rest of your message agrees with social learning impacting future relationships? I quote you "we're born with potential and the environment, and probably chance...help determine what gets filled in and emphasized! Whoa! Thats true!

Thanks for the supporting evidence of Homosexuality (future relationships based on social learning at a young age) being credited to ENVIRONMENTAL factors :)

Oh, the color-blindness is not even in the same category.

Posted 193 days ago