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Debate Score:86
Arguments:130
Total Votes:101
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 What is the point of religion? (73)

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JOMIRO(27) pic



What is the point of religion?

When people of faith join a religion, such as Christianity, why do they become lofty, arrogant and condescending in their nature when they are meant to become simple, kind, honest and caring? What can be done to prevent this from happening? 
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2 points

I believe that organised religion is faulted right from the start. Apart from the fact that those involved are supporting nothing more than fairy tales at best, they create a community based on rank and position within that community. The practitioners in these orders are promoted and their status becomes more and more important to them. They all spend far too much time trying to outdo each other to gain favour with the leaders. It quickly and not surprisingly becomes a full-blown cult.

If you are going to take part in one of these ridiculous faith-based religions why not try to find one where the significance of rank does not matter. There must be a few still around like that somewhere.

TzarPepe(305) Clarified
1 point

"a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith"

^

Religion according to Merriam-Webster.

What that means is that your very specific idea of religion doesn't encapsulate the essence of what a religion is.

belle_1998(2) Disputed
1 point

I strongly disagree. I don't think that trying to find a point for religion is necessary. We live in a free world and need to respect that religion is a choice and people choose to believe in ancient teachings. I would not class these teachings as "fairy tales" because they are mostly morals taught to people through examples which are formed into stories to help us understand what they mean by these teachings. It would be hard for us to understand things unless examples are given. The tales in holy books such as the bible aren't necessarily meant to be taken seriously and possibly aren't meant to be perceived as fact based and completely true. Again, they are examples of how to lead a fulfilling and happy life by respecting others. Religious communities, in extreme cases, can be quite competitive and controlling but, for the most part they are not. People often see people who teach religion as higher in power when, in fact, they are not, they are merely people who lead and teach. Where would we be without some sort of leadership? what would our world be like if we had no one to show us correct ways and how to do things?

Also, faith is an interesting topic. It means to have complete trust in someone or something. religious people do have faith in their religion and where would we really be if we didn't have faith? If we didn't have faith in our governments (who, may I just add, also lead and there is often disputes about power, so before questioning the rank of other communities, take a look at your ever day life) where would we be?

you should never class someones life and belief as "ridiculous" before clearly looking into it and having an almost perfect understanding of it, which you clearly don't have, otherwise there wouldn't be as many flaws in your argument.

Thank you

2 points

The point of religion, at its base, is to explain things man doesn't understand, and frighten us. If you aren't frightened, you don't need the answer, and religion becomes superfluous. For some - some priests - the point of religion is power, and/or money. This becomes true in politics for those with less power - religion becomes a very big lever, used through government, against those that oppose them.

TzarPepe(305) Clarified
1 point

That is not the point of religion to anyone but wicked men.

The point of religion is not to explain things either.

EldonG(478) Disputed
1 point

You've never studied religions of the world, have you? That's exactly what they do, starting with the simplest of religions, like animism. Religion has always given reasons for questions like: "Why am I here?", "What is the purpose?", "How did it begin?", and even "Why is the world so hostile to me?"

This is exactly why things like sacrifice - to appease the...spirits...forces of nature...greater beings...etc...came to exist.

MistVillage(65) Clarified
1 point

You gotta understand that before we had the knowledge of the world that we have today that the ancient peoples did not fully understand what was going on so they created stories to come up with reasons that made sense to them

1 point

Hello J:

Well, it IS an EXCELLENT business.. It's good for the customers too... For example, if they're looking for an escape clause to save them from hell, Christianity offers it.. All they gotta DO is say some magic words on Sunday, and they're forgiven for being an asshole last Monday.. Who wouldn't want something like that?

excon

2 points

So it's like liberalism. You can condemn anyone for anything, then go do it yourself, the flock will forgive you, and you can feel good about yourself because you demanded help for the poor without dropping a dime in the offering plate to actually help. It's a good business for its leaders, acting like the ethics/morality police, and getting re-elected to be the liberal Popes and bishops for another few years. Life is good for the liberal priest. You can accuse everyone of groping and molesting as your flock yells "crucify him", and then you yourself can rape, molest, take pictures of it, villify the "victims", etc, and the flock won't condemn you, Hollywood will glorify you, the media will foam at the mouth over you, and then said "flock" will actually intentionally try to give you more money, more power, and more social control.

What's great about being a liberal bishop is you don't actually have to make sense at the pulpit. If you can self identify as some sort of minority that ranks high on the liberal pecking order of untouchables, you can literally take a piss on the flag in front of the congregation, demand the females in the congregation put on their burkas, glorify illegal drug use, preach there are 48 genders, preach that people are good or bad based on their race, demonize those who inforce the law as the enemy, call anyone that disagrees with you Hitler, and on and on and on.

Imagine Con, the magnitude of the amount of religious brainwashing it would take to actually get people to buy into this shit. You'd literally have to control the media, the movies, the schools, be willing to use violence to stop any opposing views, and be willing to call anyone that doesn't adhere willingly to the groupthink a Nazi or a fascist. But that'll never happen. This is America......

1 point

So it's like liberalism.

So you begin by claiming religion is like liberalism, knowing full well that most religious people are conservatives?

Why bronto? Why are you prepared to turn reality itself upside down to promote your vile brand of national populism?

excon(4266) Disputed
1 point

Hello bront:

So, you don't DENY that you can be an asshole on Monday and be forgiven for it on Sunday... And, your only response is to attack liberalism.. That's funny, Dude..

But, let's stay on point, shall we? In order to BE a good Jew, you have to LIVE like one, and NOT a week at a time either..

Don't you wish your religion did that?

excon

1 point

All they gotta DO is say some magic words on Sunday, and they're forgiven for being an asshole last Monday

Al Franken must be religious. I just watched him come out and say "sorry for molesting and groping those women" and the flock forgave him. It was very mysterious and magical now wasn't it?

belle_1998(2) Disputed
1 point

I don't think that was evidently backed up. Not all is forgiven in every religion. in Protestant Christianity it is believed that you will be judged and depending on how you lived you would be excepted into Heaven or rejected into Hell. However, in Roman Catholicism, it is believed that all will be forgiven.

Thank you

1 point

The point is they're afraid. Afraid they don't have the answer unless they believe in God. Afraid unfair or bad things will happen to them if they don't please God. Afraid death is final and torturous if not for God. So they adopt the God beliefs so they can forget about all those things and just believe it will all work out for the best for them.

When others refuse to believe in God, or the same God in the same way, then it threatens their facade that they're going to be alright, and they react to that new information with anger, and threats of eternal damnation and torture, and the arrogance that they will be saved while their critics will be put through hell.

Now the religious on this site will dogpile on me. And why? Because they react more harshly to people who try to talk sensibly than they do to people with actual wicked beliefs. A satan worshipper would not get the same level of attention in their replies that a humanist or atheist or even just a Christian asking challenging questions to other Christians would get. And that's all proof that what I say about being afraid is true.

Ameri2ca(112) Disputed
1 point

I disagree, if you are a true Christian, you wouldn't be arrogant and mean, because real christians are kind and nice to everyone. Christians aren't afraid of God...... because they know after they become a Christian, they know God will take care of him/her.

1 point

Nice. You're my kind of Christian! Glad to hear it.........................................

EldonG(478) Clarified
1 point

So those that call themselves Christians, but live miserable lives, are not real Christians? Good examples might be Jesus' disciples, who reputedly had very difficult lives...

1 point

I disagree, if you are a true Christian, you wouldn't be arrogant and mean

Christians say this a lot, but it is difficult to deny the bloodlust of the Bible given that it is written in black and white for everybody to see. I hate to tell you this, but just because you have chosen to obey only the good parts, does not mean good parts are all there are.

AlofRI(1835) Clarified
1 point

I am just curious ... do you consider Roy Moore a true Christian?? A "real Christian" that is "kind and nice to everyone"??

I DO hope GOD "takes care of him"!

TzarPepe(305) Clarified
1 point

It's not about having answers at all.

I don't have my beliefs because of fear of personal harm.

I am not scared of nonexistence or death.

I know things will work out for the best, because my measure for "best" is what actually happens.

No, you don't get my beliefs at all. Judging by your strong opinions and the way you express them, probably too haughty to receive correction.You aren't talking sensibly to me, you are talking about things you don't understand.

EldonG(478) Clarified
1 point

I'm not trying to explain your personal reasons, here, but the reason why religions exist at all. Don't take it so personally - you're absolutely right - I don't know you. This isn't about you - or any other particular person.

Grenache(5532) Clarified
1 point

Good for you. You're another example of a believer who personally I don't really have an issue with. You believe what you do and you're not trying to cram it down the throat of those who don't. I'm sorry if my response, which was more in mind to the FromWithin and SaintNow crowd of CreateDebate, came across harshly on the rest of you.

1 point

ROFLOL, three bigots from this site spewing their anti Christian bigotry as always.

Do you judgemental hypocrites ever tire of showing everyone your hypocritical intolerance for Christians and those who do not think like you? Wat happen to your inclusiveness and tolerance and openmindedness? Oh I forget, that only applies to your political correct groups who think like the humanistic Collective..

I already ban two of these hypocritical bigots from my debates. Looks like I'm findng another intolerant bigot to ban.

AlofRI(1835) Clarified
1 point

I'm just slightly less judgmental than my two associates here, in that I feel that religion IS important to many who have trouble handling adversity or understanding science. Being hypocritical is NOT an act wholly owned by atheists, it's FAR more rampant in the Christian world ... they just have far more "conservative" definition of it, somewhat balanced by a far more "liberal" definition when it applies to themselves.

Obviously, I am totally with them when it comes to the authoritarian way Christians demand everyone follow THEIR rules! THEY are bigots to other religions, other beliefs, forcing people to drop THEIR openmindedness", "inclusiveness", and "tolerance". (Hypocrisy?) Oh, I forget, that only applies to your Christianly correct groups who think like the pious collective...

If I am not one of the already banned, I suspect I will be now. I would remind you that I was one of the few (maybe the only) that praised your decision to temper your juvenile banning practices, but, if you wish to follow Christianity, I have no objection. If you wish to continue as a intolerant bigot .. looks like you've found another "debater" to ban. So sad, your intolerance, your hypocricy.....:-( .

You should think about coming over to "the dark side". ;-)

FromWithin(5443) Clarified Banned
1 point

You should thik about being an honest person and stop lying about Christians.

Tell me where Christians are demanding everyone to follow their rules? Do you mean like how the Left FORCED EVERY STATE TO CHANGE THEIR MARRIAGE LAWS?

You are describing the Left and political correctness. If a person, or State, or pubic school does not tow the PC way of thinking, they are labeled phobics and will be sued!

Look at your own authoritative demanding hypocrisy before judging others.

JOMIRO(27) Disputed
1 point

You are presuming too much here. I am not judgemental or bigotted at all. I will put forward my findings as they appear to me. I may completely disagree with you or I may be of a similar belief in some areas, and I will fight for your right to believe anything you want to.

I am very open-minded and I tolerate many things, and when I want complete and honest answers from people I push hard enough to elicit their responses in full. We gain more from answers that are given with enthusiasm and emotion attached rather than dull, flat, unimaginative replies. That would be boring and we would not stretch each other very far.

I would like to discuss this subject further and I welcome any contribution you have to offer if it is given freely and in earnest, but you also have the right to be the lofty and condescending one too. The choice is yours. One way opens it all up and makes available all avenues. The other closes it down and brings communication to an end.

FromWithin(5443) Disputed Banned
1 point

ROFLOL, you just called Christians.... lofty, condescending and arrogant!

Now there's the world's definition of tolerance, openmindedness, non judgemental.

GET REAL!

Do you think name calling, ridiculing and insulting Christians is going to lead to good honest open discussions?

Thanks for making it easy to ban yet one more deceptive bigoted hypocrite.

Grenache(5532) Disputed
1 point

My reply to the first respondent Ameri2ca praised his Christianity. That disproved your bigotry claim before you even posted it.

What is the point of religion

Nobody knows what the point of Progressivism is. As for keeping them from acting like assholes? Hmmmm.... illegal drugs doesn't seem to be working, so how about we have Christmas four times a year and see if that helps their mood.

EldonG(478) Clarified
2 points

You're wrong in that nobody knows the point of progressivism, and I'll take the time to tutor you on it, if you feel the urge to learn about what you missed in school.

Nomenclature(1165) Clarified
2 points

You're wrong in that nobody knows the point of progressivism, and I'll take the time to tutor you on it, if you feel the urge to learn about what you missed in school.

Bronto is just a fascist lunatic. The best thing to do with guys like that is ignore them, but they make it very difficult by being the same ones who bombard you with replies.

1 point

Nobody knows what the point of Progressivism is

Nobody is talking about progressivism you dumb buckethead. The thread is about religion.

AlofRI(1835) Clarified
1 point

I would remind you that Christianity is NOT a "conservative thing". MANY "progressives" practice Christianity, just not so much the Evangelical type. Like Islam, there are many "cults" that are only "godly" in their own minds! That "illegal drug" problem you talked about only became as epidemic as it IS after conservative capitalists allowed (encouraged) doctors to over prescribe drugs that brought them more $Billions. That DID seem to work! (Assholes??)

I vote we keep it to "Happy Holidays" four times a year (or more) ... and "Merry Christmas" ONCE a year, like it calls for in the Bible ... at least as Saint Francis of Assisi envisioned it. But, as a tolerant atheist, it seems YOU may need it 4 times a year to improve YOUR mood ... be my guest.

1 point

Very true. Even when I was southern baptist, I was very liberal. Jesus was a liberal.

1 point

Something about identity tricks and politics.

What better way to look sanctimonious than to make something spiritual sounding a high flying part of your identity!

The thing is, you are going to have this problem of perception even if you are a genuinely humble person. It has to do with claiming identity at all. Takes a certain level of pride.

Unfortunately, they don't really teach identity fallacies in school, otherwise societal mental illness might go down(which is bad for business), and none of their indoctrination propaganda will work.

But nah, I mean hey... People can believe they are who they say they are ALL THEY WANT. I don't think they know what they are talking about.

1 point

Not everyone who joins becomes lofty or arrogant, it will depend on the teaching of that church and the actual person.

Many people who join do so to be a part of something larger, to be a part of a community that holds the same values they do, which is why you get a lot of church hoppers, those who go from church to church to find something that aligns with what they believe in.

Many churches take pride in their community, doing events and charities that help those less fortunate, it's wonderful to be a part of that and to see others doing it as well.

1 point

The point in religion is believing in something and looking forward to something, if you are christian and believe in heaven or hell or afterlife then you have that to look forward to instead of thinking when we die its just nothing. Religion is just stating your belief

1 point

When people of faith join a religion, such as Christianity, why do they become lofty, arrogant and condescending in their nature when they are meant to become simple, kind, honest and caring? What can be done to prevent this from happening? 

Apes will still act like Apes regardless of what they "believe". A standard distribution of intelligence, social behavior, self-concept, ect. applies regardless of ones religious affiliation or lack thereof (however, it is important to note, differing groups will select for various standard averages in these categories also)

0 points

When people of faith join a religion, such as Christianity, why do they become lofty, arrogant and condescending in their nature when they are meant to become simple, kind, honest and caring? What can be done to prevent this from happening?

Nothing can really be done unless you're a Christian. Christians have a right to actually encourage one another in love. If you're not a Christian you have no right telling other Christians what they can or cannot do because they don't have any basis for any moral complaint because there worldview is different and inconsistent.