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What is the use of anger?
Happiness is a response to feeling safe. It increases our communication skills so we can form an allience with people whom we share a common interest with.
Sadness is response to unwanted change. It increases our thinking skills so we can accept and adapt to the change.
Anger is a response to frustration. It increases our physical strenght and devoids us of thinking skills which further increases the problem.
Wait, thats not right at all
Using biological reasoning, I cannot find any reason as to why we evolved with such an emotion. And to make this question even thicker, I cannot find a reason for having the ability to hold a grudge and take revenge when as we all know, this is a self-destructive behavior that amounts to nothing more than digging our own grave.
Even the military rebukes the use of emotions and the #1 rule among martial artists is to never let your emotions cloud your actions.
I asked this question in some internet forums but we cant seem to find a good answer. Anyone here who can have something to share?
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2 wrongs does not make a right and the act of vengeance is not the equivalent of learning from mistakes. No person who is hell bent on doing revenge has ever made a success out of themselves. (e.g N. Korea) The first step of spiritual success is to forgive, but not to forget. And all philosophers agree that wrath is a useless emotion. 2 wrongs does not make a right and the act of vengeance is not the equivalent of learning from mistakes. Preventing mistakes, maybe. No person who is hell bent on doing revenge has ever made a success out of themselves. (e.g N. Korea) Probably not true. Plus, your example is horrible. North Korea is an independent country that is not struggling. A better example would be the Nazis, or the USSR where they actually have gone away. The first step of spiritual success is to forgive, but not to forget. Holding a grudge just has a little less forgiveness, so close to spiritual success. And all philosophers agree that wrath is a useless emotion. Philosophers only get to exist in society. A philosopher in an uncivilized world is known as useless. Maybe revenge helped in those times. 1
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Preventing mistakes, maybe. To prevent the repetition of the act, you do not need the act of violence. Holding a grudge just has a little less forgiveness, so close to spiritual success. I was referring to a deeper understanding of ourselves and the community. You cannot understand anything if your mind is clouded by emotions. And wrath is one of the most poisonous cloud To prevent the repetition of the act, you do not need the act of violence. Not needing it and having it work are 2 different things. I don't need a car to get to work. That doesn't mean that a car isn't a possible option. I was referring to a deeper understanding of ourselves and the community. You cannot understand anything if your mind is clouded by emotions. And wrath is one of the most poisonous cloud Ironic. You are getting emotionally involved with your discussions of grudges and you are missing the point. You have deemed every single grudge as something that clouds your emotions, and must have some form of wrath to it. Just because there isn't a reason to have extreme grudges, doesn't mean that grudges on a smaller scale didn't serve a purpose. 1
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Not needing it and having it work are 2 different things. I don't need a car to get to work. That doesn't mean that a car isn't a possible option. No really. There was never any case of gaining benefits from a personal vendeta. Instead, it even makes the problem worse. Just because there isn't a reason to have extreme grudges, doesn't mean that grudges on a smaller scale didn't serve a purpose. Im afraid I cant find any use for anger at all. Do you have an idea? I am really disappointed in the quality of your post. This one is bad even for you. No really. There was never any case of gaining benefits from a personal vendeta. Instead, it even makes the problem worse. First, this doesn't have anything to do with what I wrote. Second, you are making a blanket statement about vendettas that you can't possibly know is true. Third, not all violence is related to personal vendettas. Im afraid I cant find any use for anger at all. Do you have an idea? Ha! This is a false statement. You have already listed a use for anger in the debate description. It is funny that even you don't know what it is that you know. Plus, just because you can't see a personal use for something doesn't mean it doesn't have a use. As a man, I can't find any use for periods, does that mean they don't have to happen in women? Are you trying to claim that it is impossible for violence to fix a bad behavior? 1
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you are making a blanket statement about vendettas that you can't possibly know is true. Well, do you know any cases of revenge that actually brought benefits? just because you can't see a personal use for something doesn't mean it doesn't have a use So, do you have any idea for the use of anger? Are you trying to claim that it is impossible for violence to fix a bad behavior? Studies show that violent people came from violent homes. Bullies had improper nurturing and criminals resulted from broken homes. If by "fix", you meant being feared, then dont be surprised if you end up creating a monster Well, do you know any cases of revenge that actually brought benefits? I had one, but the whole missing arguments thing is throwing me off now. Think about it. If you did it right and it wasn't illegal at all, you can come up with a way for revenge to have benefits. There is such a thing as non violent revenge. So, do you have any idea for the use of anger? Yes. "Anger is a response to frustration. It increases our physical strenght... ": increasing physical strength. Studies show that violent people came from violent homes. Bullies had improper nurturing and criminals resulted from broken homes. Not all violence come from people who are considered violent. ;) Bullies and criminals are not the only people who commit violence. If by "fix", you meant being feared, then dont be surprised if you end up creating a monster Notice, you don't say it would be surprising for someone to not do the behavior again. Interesting. 1
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If you did it right and it wasn't illegal at all, you can come up with a way for revenge to have benefits. There is such a thing as non violent revenge. Indeed, there are plenty of non violent acts of revenge. But what makes you think he wont retaliate to what you did? In the end, it will be just a never ending cycle of immature acts and provide no true benefits for anyone increasing physical strength. You got rid of the negative side effect: "devoids us of thinking skills which further increases the problem" I am talking about the benefits of Anger as a whole and not its positive side alone. Not all violence come from people who are considered violent But violent people came from a violent environment. Hence, they are a mirror of their past Notice, you don't say it would be surprising for someone to not do the behavior again. Interesting. Studies shown that negative reinforcement has brought more problems than benefits. Spanking a kid can make him shut, but it will make him grow into a troublesome adult. Which proves that violence has no place in a civilized society Indeed, there are plenty of non violent acts of revenge. But what makes you think he wont retaliate to what you did? In the end, it will be just a never ending cycle of immature acts and provide no true benefits for anyone They learn from their mistakes. Watch the movie "Mean Girls". You got rid of the negative side effect: "devoids us of thinking skills which further increases the problem" I am talking about the benefits of Anger as a whole and not its positive side alone. You asked for its use. That means its positive side only. But violent people came from a violent environment. Hence, they are a mirror of their past Blah blah blah, you ignored my post, good for you. Studies shown that negative reinforcement has brought more problems than benefits. So, it has brought benefits. Spanking a kid can make him shut, but it will make him grow into a troublesome adult. Not applicable to this argument, thanks. Which proves that violence has no place in a civilized society Not exactly part of this debate now is it? 1
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They learn from their mistakes. Watch the movie "Mean Girls". You do realize that your reference are from a fictional situation, right? You asked for its use. That means its positive side only. Its not called "use" when the positive effect is out weighted by the negative. I am asking you for a situation where anger can actually solve a problem. you ignored my post Not all violence come from people who are considered violent. Translates to: "not all crimes are taught." I replied: "violent people came from a violent environment. Hence, they are a mirror of their past" I ignored none. Or did I misunderstand something? So, it has brought benefits. Short term success, yes but it leads to a disaster in the long run. Its not a benefit, but a tragedy in disguise Not applicable to this argument. Not exactly part of this debate now is it? Your reply: "you don't say it would be surprising for someone to not do the behavior again" refers to the use of violence to discipline children. Hence, my reply is related to the topic You do realize that your reference are from a fictional situation, right? At least it wasn't a cartoon. Its not called "use" when the positive effect is out weighted by the negative. During that time when you need strength and not thinking, it isn't outweighed silly. Imagine you are able to lift 100 lbs normally and a 105 pound object falls on you. You can get angry and push it off off yourself without much thought. I am asking you for a situation where anger can actually solve a problem. You act as if thinking is some great ability that is required all the time. You post stuff on here all the time without thinking, it seems overrated. Not all violence come from people who are considered violent. Translates to: "not all crimes are taught." What? That doesn't come close to meaning that. It simply meant that nonviolent people commit acts you would consider violent sometimes. Short term success, yes but it leads to a disaster in the long run. Its not a benefit, but a tragedy in disguise Not every action has life altering consequences. Your reply: "you don't say it would be surprising for someone to not do the behavior again" refers to the use of violence to discipline children. Hence, my reply is related to the topic Notice when you quoted me I make no mention of children. This debate is about using anger. You are morphing it into whether physical punishment on a child will cause them to become better or worse overall. That has nothing to do with what I am saying. What you are saying is that if something can be used the wrong way it has absolutely no use. According to your logic, nothing has any use. 1
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During that time when you need strength and not thinking, Nope. All predators are known by their thinking skills and not by strenght. e.g octopus kills sharks for fun and baboons are the feared enemy of the cheetah In the animal kingdom, the smart one dominates You act as if thinking is some great ability that is required all the time But it is, isnt it? Muscles can only take you so far but technology can take you everywhere Not every action has life altering consequences. It does actually and its called "Butterfly Effect" One cannot have a gain without someone earning a loss Notice when you quoted me I make no mention of children I am not referring to children in itself. I am referring to the use of violence as a form of discipline for all kinds of underlings-from children to students to adults. aka, negative reinforcements Nope. All predators are known by their thinking skills and not by strenght. e.g octopus kills sharks for fun and baboons are the feared enemy of the cheetah In the animal kingdom, the smart one dominates Awesome, I gave you a real life example and you completely ignore it. I give you fiction and you say it doesn't apply, but non-fiction gets completely ignored. In what way does making crazy generalizations and ignoring posts use intelligence? But it is, isnt it? Muscles can only take you so far but technology can take you everywhere Apparently, you didn't read further to see why I made that statement. I am not referring to children in itself. This is actually 100% false when you try to claim I am talking about children when I wasn't. Congratulations, you don't even understand what you are saying. 1
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I was going to read this argument chain but then I noticed how long it was so I decided to cut to the chase and scrolled all the way to the bottom to see how it ended but by the time I got here I was too tired to actually read the conclusion that I decided instead to just assume you won since you were the last to post ;) It is easy. She posted a use for anger, then asked everyone what the use of anger was. I gave her her explanation and she ignored it and says violence is bad. So, to sum it up, she asked what the use of one thing was, got the answer, then complained about the long term effects of something completely different. 1
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I gave you a real life example and you completely ignore it.I give you fiction and you say it doesn't apply, but non-fiction gets completely ignored. You did not gave you a real life sample. Apparently, you didn't read further to see why I made that statement. So...would you mind enlightening me as to what you were trying to say? This is actually 100% false when you try to claim I am talking about children when I wasn't. Neither do I. You were referring to "underlings", right? You did not gave you a real life sample. Wrong, You Lose. Go Back. So...would you mind enlightening me as to what you were trying to say? I Already Explained. Go Back. Neither do I. You were referring to "underlings", right? No, It Was Way Simpler Than You Are Making It Out To Be. It Can Be Any 2 People. 1
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Wrong, You Lose. Go Back. Your responses are as follow: -They learn from their mistakes. Watch the movie "Mean Girls". -At least it wasn't a cartoon. -During that time when you need strength and not thinking, it isn't outweighed silly. Imagine you are able to lift 100 lbs normally and a 105 pound object falls on you. You can get angry and push it off off yourself without much thought. Where is your "Real Life Sample" again? I Already Explained. Go Back. Your responses are as follow -You act as if thinking is some great ability that is required all the time. You post stuff on here all the time without thinking, it seems overrated. -Not every action has life altering consequences. So...where is your explanation? No, It Was Way Simpler Than You Are Making It Out To Be. It Can Be Any 2 People. Yes, and? Imagine you are able to lift 100 lbs normally and a 105 pound object falls on you. You can get angry and push it off off yourself without much thought. Things fall on people in real life. You post stuff on here all the time without thinking, it seems overrated. Look, an explanation for why I see thinking is overrated. Maybe you should have looked at the text that you didn't quote earlier. Yes, and? You were wrong basically just because you made it way more complicated and totally missed the point I was making. 1
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Things fall on people in real life. No one gets angry in the face of danger. When life is at stake, we are biologically programmed to feel fear. Fear unleashes adrenaline which makes the body far stronger than what the emotion of anger can give, and it does not disrupt a persons thinking skills Anger remains useless. Look, an explanation for why I see thinking is overrated.. You gave no explanation but merely a claim unsupported by facts Maybe you should have looked at the text that you didn't quote earlier Now that I noticed, it seems like you skipped my mention of the Butterfly Effect. Gee, I wonder why. You were wrong basically just because you made it way more complicated and totally missed the point I was making. So, what is the point that you were making? No one gets angry in the face of danger. Wrong. When life is at stake, we are biologically programmed to feel fear. Fear unleashes adrenaline which makes the body far stronger than what the emotion of anger can give, and it does not disrupt a persons thinking skills Anger remains useless. You have a large object on you, your life isn't in danger. I'd be pissed off if I had a big object that I was stuck under. You gave no explanation but merely a claim unsupported by facts Unsupported? You quoted half of what I said and said I didn't say the other half. Then, you wrote down what I said not knowing that I said exactly what you asked for. That is pretty much you not thinking at all. Now that I noticed, it seems like you skipped my mention of the Butterfly Effect. Gee, I wonder why. The Butterfly Effect says that it MAY have some impact. It also means that it could have no effect. It was just another thing that you added that I didn't feel had anything to do with the argument. At least I didn't say you never said it. So, what is the point that you were making? Violence can stop a behavior from being repeated. 1
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You have a large object on you, you life isn't in danger. I'd be pissed off if I had a big object that I was stuck under. Determination to escape does not equate to anger and a personal opinion is not a valid source Unsupported? You quoted half of what I said and said I didn't say the other half. Then, you wrote down what I said not knowing that I said exactly what you asked for. That is pretty much you not thinking at all. You claim that great thinking is not required all the time and it is overrated, and yet, you gave no scientific research that will show how nature favors the strong above the smart one he Butterfly Effect says that it MAY have some impact. "In chaos theory, the butterfly effect is the sensitive dependency on initial conditions in which a small change at one place in a deterministic nonlinear system can result in large differences in a later state." There is no "could have no effect" on Butterfly Effect. Only an infinite possibilities caused by a minor disruption. You cant get anything clean without getting something dirty. Violence can stop a behavior from being repeated. Which brings us back to the start: Two wrongs does not make a right. You cannot correct a criminal by being a criminal yourself and teaching a person how to fear is no different from fanning the fire. Come on, joe is cheering up on you. Try not to run in circles this time Determination to escape does not equate to anger and a personal opinion is not a valid source Actually, only your personal opinion is worthless. Since you say EVERY person is the same, my opinion can make yours invalid. You claim that great thinking is not required all the time and it is overrated, and yet, you gave no scientific research that will show how nature favors the strong above the smart one I was calling you an idiot. Apparently, you can't even think enough to see that. ...system can result... Guess what this part of the statement means. It means that it could also not have any impact. Are you going to start thinking any time soon? Two wrongs does not make a right. Not in dispute. Did the behavior in question stop or not? 1
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Actually, only your personal opinion is worthless. Since you say EVERY person is the same, my opinion can make yours invalid. Sounds interesting. Do you have any scientific evidence to back it up? I was calling you an idiot. Apparently, you can't even think enough to see that. That's a creative way to change the topic It means that it could also not have any impact. Nope. Every decisions in life causes a disruption. Every disruption causes motion. Lack of movement does not exist in the butterfly effect. Why not make it worth your while and actually read its contents? Not in dispute. Did the behavior in question stop or not? Short term success done by violence will lead into a disastrous future. Tyranny and progress does not mix. Sounds interesting. Do you have any scientific evidence to back it up? Yep, when someone says "every single person" all it takes is one person to be different. I would use anger, therefore your statement is incorrect. That's a creative way to change the topic It wasn't changing the topic. I literally said you don't think when you post and you never picked up on it. Nope. Yes, sorry. If you are right, than every flap of a butterfly would cause a hurricane every time. Every decisions in life causes a disruption. Every disruption causes motion. Lack of movement does not exist in the butterfly effect. The disruption doesn't have to be significant. If it isn't significant, it isn't life altering. Why not make it worth your while and actually read its contents? Do you know what a corollary is? Short term success BOOM, YOU LOSE. 1
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Yep, when someone says "every single person" all it takes is one person to be different. I would use anger, therefore your statement is incorrect. Nope. Individuality does not exists in biology. Every single human in the world belongs in the same species. Hence, no matter how many character archetypes existed, we all share the same core. The existence of one person having a different trait will yield only two options: Either you do not belong to the human race or you are lying It wasn't changing the topic. Then answer my argument: "You claim that great thinking is not required all the time and it is overrated, and yet, you gave no scientific research that will show how nature favors the strong above the smart one" The disruption doesn't have to be significant. If it isn't significant, it isn't life altering. It is significant. The most fickle of actions can result into consequences that will and shall change every ones view on life. Especially in terms of vengance and wrath BOOM, YOU LOSE. sigh I see that you did not even read it Why am I not surprised? Nope. Individuality does not exists in biology. Every single human in the world belongs in the same species. Hence, no matter how many character archetypes existed, we all share the same core. The existence of one person having a different trait will yield only two options: Either you do not belong to the human race or you are lying HAHAHAHA, this doesn't make any sense. Claiming I am not human doesn't help your argument at all. Then answer my argument: "You claim that great thinking is not required all the time and it is overrated, and yet, you gave no scientific research that will show how nature favors the strong above the smart one" I don't need scientific research, I just need to give an example. Pretty much all of your posts demonstrate my point. Like saying there are no individual humans. It is significant. Ha, you lose again. Something that isn't significant can't be significant by definition. Key word, "if". The most fickle of actions can result into consequences that will and shall change every ones view on life. Especially in terms of vengance and wrath And the corollary to that is what? sigh I see that you did not even read it Why am I not surprised? You didn't read. I asked a yes or no question. If the answer was yes, you lose. You indicated the answer was yes. 1
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this doesn't make any sense. Claiming I am not human doesn't help your argument at all. Or you're lying. You did not gave me any valid evidence for your claims. Its only common sense from here on out. I don't need scientific research, I just need to give an example. So, where is your example? Something that isn't significant can't be significant by definition. Key word, "if". But it is, isnt it? There is no "if" in everyone ones timeline, there is only "will and shall". Every major events in the world happened from a small stroke of chance, which means that everything is significant You didn't read. I asked a yes or no question.You indicated the answer was yes. Actually, I indicated a strong no. Long Term success is the true success. Short ones are bad omens. How long exactly do you plan to make a fool of yourself? Or you're lying. You did not gave me any valid evidence for your claims. Its only common sense from here on out. You haven't provided any evidence yourself. So, where is your example? All of your posts is my example. But it is, isnt it? It can't be, I already said it wasn't. There is no "if" in everyone ones timeline, there is only "will and shall". Doesn't make sense to me, I have no idea what you are talking about. Every major events in the world happened from a small stroke of chance, which means that everything is significant Every major event may be from a small stroke, but there are so many small strokes, and so few strokes, that some of the small strokes have to be insignificant. Actually, I indicated a strong no. At best it was a very weak no because you had to have all kinds of qualifiers to it. Long Term success is the true success. See? Something we weren't discussing to try to make your argument. That makes it weak. How long exactly do you plan to make a fool of yourself? Hehe, you think you are winning, that's awesome. You have ignored the word corollary twice now. Why is that? 1
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You haven't provided any evidence yourself. Your turn All of your posts is my example. sigh Even a troll has standards in trying to change the subject. Dont make yourself a laughing stock. It can't be, I already said it wasn't. Personal opinions are not facts. You need scientific articles if you want to change the definition of something Doesn't make sense to me, I have no idea what you are talking about. Its obvious, right from the start. But thankyou for confirming it Every major event may be from a small stroke, but there are so many small strokes, and so few strokes, that some of the small strokes have to be insignificant. Insignificant or ignored? With the use of proper listening and self contemplation, every single moment in life will is a life changing situation. Guess who has the problem? At best it was a very weak no because you had to have all kinds of qualifiers to it.See? Something we weren't discussing to try to make your argument. That makes it weak. You are ignoring the elephant in the room. Short term success are celebrated by fools. Only the wise will seek a permanent solution Done Your turn That doesn't have any mention of the word anger. You lose. Please reference some part of it. sigh Even a troll has standards in trying to change the subject. Dont make yourself a laughing stock. I wrote a sentence that you disagreed with. Then, I put an example right after it. You didn't see the example that came right after twice, please explain how not seeing something is a form of thinking. Now, you have claimed I was changing the subject twice. Why aren't you sticking to the subject? Hmmm. Personal opinions are not facts. You need scientific articles if you want to change the definition of something It is evidence if you are claiming that something is true about my opinions. Its obvious, right from the start. But thankyou for confirming it You can't explain, you lose, sorry. Insignificant or ignored? With the use of proper listening and self contemplation, every single moment in life will is a life changing situation. Guess who has the problem? Lowering the threshold for significance now. This is a sign you are losing. How about the situations without proper listening? You are ignoring the elephant in the room. Short term success are celebrated by fools. Only the wise will seek a permanent solution You are ignoring the answer to my question which you have confirmed again is yes. Just because you have a better way doesn't mean that the other way doesn't work the way it is claiming to work. For example, you are saying that since having surgery performed on me won't help me at all, all surgery everywhere is not useful. 1
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That doesn't have any mention of the word anger. I prove that individuality does not exists in biology. Now you have to prove that your traits are different from the majority I wrote a sentence that you disagreed with. Then, I put an example right after it. But you did not gave an example. It is evidence if you are claiming that something is true about my opinions. "I wrote a sentence that you disagreed with." Where is the part where I claimed that your opinion is true again? Lowering the threshold for significance now. I didn't. You just kept on avoiding the question. Not that theres anything new about it. sigh Just because you have a better way Actually, because there is a better way, there is no need to use the ineffective way. Long Term success > Short Term success Just admit it, its that easy I prove that individuality does not exists in biology. Now you have to prove that your traits are different from the majority Which specific part proved that? But you did not gave an example. Then, what did I give? "I wrote a sentence that you disagreed with." Where is the part where I claimed that your opinion is true again? You claimed something about my opinions. I am not accusing you of claiming you thought my opinion was true. You made a claim about my opinions. So, my opinion becomes evidence in that case. I didn't. You just kept on avoiding the question. Not that theres anything new about it. I avoided a question that didn't have anything to do with what I posted. Actually, because there is a better way, there is no need to use the ineffective way. Long Term success > Short Term success I didn't say that one way was better than the other, I just said that it was a possibility. You are trying to claim that if there is a better way, the ineffective way doesn't exist. Clearly, that claim is false. Just admit it, its that easy You are correct that there is a better alternative to violence. When did that become the debate question? So, now you can admit that I was correct as well. 1
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Which specific part proved that? " taxonomy and classification became the focus of natural historians. Carl Linnaeus published a basic taxonomy for the natural world in 1735 (variations of which have been in use ever since), and in the 1750s introduced scientific names for all his species.[12] Georges-Louis Leclerc, Comte de Buffon, treated species as artificial categories and living forms as malleable—even suggesting the possibility of common descent." "All organisms, from bacteria to animals, share the same basic machinery that copies and translates DNA into proteins." "A central organizing concept in biology is that life changes and develops through evolution, and that all life-forms known have a common origin. The theory of evolution postulates that all organisms on the Earth, both living and extinct, have descended from a common ancestor or an ancestral gene pool." Pretty much just the intro will give you plenty Then, what did I give? A personal opinion without any reliable source I am not accusing you of claiming you thought my opinion was true. You made a claim about my opinions. So, my opinion becomes evidence in that case. So, you're denying your claims now? I didn't say that one way was better than the other, I just said that it was a possibility. You are trying to claim that if there is a better way, the ineffective way doesn't exist. Apparently not. "Violence can stop a behavior from being repeated." "Not in dispute. Did the behavior in question stop or not?" You are implying to be content with what you see at first glance. You are saying that a short term success carries the same weight of a permanent solution. Your saying that as long as violence can be stopped, any solution is equal. You are correct that there is a better alternative to violence. When did that become the debate question? When I asked for the an explanation for anger; you claimed it as a way to stop violence. I tested it, and now, look at what you brought to yourself Pretty much just the intro will give you plenty None of that has anything about individuality. You are crazy. A personal opinion without any reliable source I gave examples too. Does giving an opinion once invalidate everything else I said? So, you're denying your claims now? My statement never actually said what you are accusing me of saying, I am clearing up your confusion. You are implying to be content with what you see at first glance. You are saying that a short term success carries the same weight of a permanent solution. That doesn't mean that or imply that, that's why you are confused. Your saying that as long as violence can be stopped, any solution is equal. What? No I didn't. I am making no claims on actual effectiveness, nor have I at all in this debate. When I asked for the an explanation for anger; you claimed it as a way to stop violence. No, I never specified violence, you are mistaken. I said behavior. I tested it, and now, look at what you brought to yourself Ha, you have tested nothing. 1
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None of that has anything about individuality. You are crazy. sigh You are the one who says about individuality. I was showing that everyone has the same common descent, same ancestral DNA and same common ancestral gene pool. Not that I can force you to learn, though I gave examples too. Where? My statement never actually said what you are accusing me of saying, I am clearing up your confusion. Your claim: "Something that isn't significant can't be significant by definition." "Every major event may be from a small stroke, but there are so many small strokes, and so few strokes, that some of the small strokes have to be insignificant." "It is evidence if you are claiming that something is true about my opinions." And followed by: "I am not accusing you of claiming you thought my opinion was true" Go ahead. Amuse me with your denials What? No I didn't. I am making no claims on actual effectiveness, nor have I at all in this debate. Too afraid to face your own words, I see You're such a child. No, I never specified violence, you are mistaken. I said behavior. So? sigh You are the one who says about individuality. I was showing that everyone has the same common descent, same ancestral DNA and same common ancestral gene pool. Not that I can force you to learn, though You brought up individuality, not me. Where? We already went through this. Your claim: Oh no, you caught me. "Something that isn't significant can't be significant by definition." That translates to "Centifolia thinks Cartman's opinion is true" in Latin. "Every major event may be from a small stroke, but there are so many small strokes, and so few strokes, that some of the small strokes have to be insignificant." Darn, this is the Spanish version of "Centifolia greatly agrees with Cartman's opinion." "It is evidence if you are claiming that something is true about my opinions." Finally, something that actually has to do with opinions, but as is pretty clear, it doesn't say anything about what you think of my opinions, it is saying that statements you made are claiming something about my opinions. You are not reading it correctly. Let's break it down. "It is evidence" - this is referencing whether my opinion could be used for evidence. "if" - a conditional, so we need to check what the condition is. "you are claiming" - so, I am talking about a claim you made. "that something is true" - talking about something you made a generalization about. "about my opinions" - the subject of your generalization. You made a generalization that included my opinion, not a generalization that said my opinion was true. You are confused. "I am not accusing you of claiming you thought my opinion was true" Which is German for "I am accusing you of claiming you thought my opinion was true. Go ahead. Amuse me with your denials It isn't a denial. For the record: I don't believe you think my opinion is correct. Too afraid to face your own words, I see You're such a child. Please show me which adjectives I used that explained the effectiveness of anger. Did I say anger easily gets rid of a behavior? Did I say something like violence is the best way to get rid of a behavior? No. I said anger can do something. That's all I said. So? When you make a claim that I said something, and it turns out I wasn't actually talking about it, that makes you ... starts with "w" ... 1
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You brought up individuality, not me. Your words: Yep, when someone says "every single person" all it takes is one person to be different. HAHAHAHA, this doesn't make any sense. Claiming I am not human doesn't help your argument at all. "From source: "Ecological systems are studied at several different levels, from individuals and populations to ecosystems and the biosphere." Individuality does not exist and therefore your claim about being different has to be given appropriate scientific report or it will be dismissed as a lie We already went through this. Indeed. And your quotes are: I don't need scientific research, I just need to give an example. All of your posts is my example. Doesn't make sense to me, I have no idea what you are talking about. LOL That translates to "Centifolia thinks Cartman's opinion is true" in Latin.Darn, this is the Spanish version of "Centifolia greatly agrees with Cartman's opinion." Thats cute. You are so not a 12 year old it doesn't say anything about what you think of my opinions, it is saying that statements you made are claiming something about my opinions. So, what is it that I claim about your opinions? For the record: I don't believe you think my opinion is correct. "Centifolia thinks Cartman's opinion is true Centifolia greatly agrees with Cartman's opinion" lol Please show me which adjectives I used that explained the effectiveness of anger. Are you trying to claim that it is impossible for violence to fix a bad behavior? "Violence can stop a behavior from being repeated." "Not in dispute. Did the behavior in question stop or not?" Individuality does not exist and therefore your claim about being different has to be given appropriate scientific report or it will be dismissed as a lie You didn't make a biological statement. You provided no evidence that your statement was accurate. Indeed. And your quotes are: I don't need scientific research, I just need to give an example. All of your posts is my example. Doesn't make sense to me, I have no idea what you are talking about. LOL None of these have any context. And, quoting someone saying you make no sense doesn't help your case. In fact, technically it is proof you don't make any sense because you are quoting it as a source. Thats cute. You are so not a 12 year old The claim was that Cartman said Centifolia agreed with Cartman's opinion. Your evidence makes you look like an idiot, sorry. You clearly pointed out I made no such statement. So, what is it that I claim about your opinions? You claimed I don't use anger. I like how you are so out of it that I have to explain your own arguments to you. "Centifolia thinks Cartman's opinion is true Centifolia greatly agrees with Cartman's opinion" lol You just quoted my fake translations to Latin and Spanish as some kind of evidence. You just called me 12 for writing them. You are awesome. Are you trying to claim that it is impossible for violence to fix a bad behavior? "Violence can stop a behavior from being repeated." "Not in dispute. Did the behavior in question stop or not?" See, proof you are wrong, thanks. Give the actual word that makes you win. Which word in their supports your argument? Quote me, then actually tell me which part you object to. 1
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Nice to see that you actually read my source. But then, you skipped the rest of the statement. "Ecological systems are studied at several different levels, from individuals and populations to ecosystems and the biosphere. The term population biology is often used interchangeably with population ecology, although population biology is more frequently used when studying diseases, viruses, and microbes, while population ecology is more commonly used when studying plants and animals. Ecology draws on many subdisciplines." For the sake of explanation, here's the description of the underlined words: Population biology is a study of populations of organisms, especially the regulation of population size, life history traits such as clutch size, and extinction. Population ecology is a sub-field of ecology that deals with the dynamics of species populations and how these populations interact with the environment. It is the study of how the population sizes of species living together in groups change over time and space In translation; individual studies are added with each other to build a report about the whole population. Dont fuss over a single word when the rest of the paragraph goes against it. Nice to see that you actually read my source. One of us has to, since you never read your sources. In translation; individual studies are added with each other to build a report about the whole population. Where is this quoted text from? Did you "quote" translated text? Doesn't that make your whole argument a lie? But, anyway, you have it totally backwards. Studying individuals and populations does not translate to individual studies. You can't just flip words around. Dont fuss over a single word when the rest of the paragraph goes against it. When a single word completely destroys your entire argument, fuss is a must, hehe. 1
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Its an interpretation so you can understand what it truly means Why did you put it in italics if it was your own words? since I can see that you no longer raised against the definition and translation, then my job here is done Really? How is "But, anyway, you have it totally backwards. Studying individuals and populations does not translate to individual studies. You can't just flip words around." not an objection to your completely bogus translation? You put a translation in italics just like your previous quotes to deceive, then you made a horrible translation, and tried to claim I didn't attack your translation. That's your strategy? If you don't start the next post with "ambidextrous" you are admitting you are a complete fool. Just put that word in and do your regular post like normal to prove you aren't a complete idiot. 2
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"But, anyway, you have it totally backwards. Studying individuals and populations does not translate to individual studies. I expected that you will read the rest of the entries in the article so you can get the answer. But whatever. Close observance of a population does not give credit to the uniqueness of an individual because this uniqueness are not even worth mentioning. Countless of studies done are stackedup with each other to form a single report about the group itself and not by the foundations that holds it firm Thank you for admitting that you are a complete fool. Regardless of the fact that you are correct, we moved from the discussion of individuality to you claiming that I didn't challenge your translation. You lose. You claimed that I didn't challenge your translation, but I clearly did. 1
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I think that before humans, surviving in nature didn't require much thinking. For a troop of baboons anger is likely useful in situations when compeeting troops are challenging their territory. Similarly anger has been useful for humans, but in our society and with our intelligence I don't think it's very useful most of the time. 1
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The Center for Evolutionary Psychology believes that anger in humans functions primarily as a bargaining tool. It does so by pressuring the other party in a conflict to "recalibrate" his or her assessment of the angry individuals position in the dispute or bargain; this is referred to as the recalibration theory of anger. They also don't believe it is necessarily a response to frustration, per se; frustration and anger seem to be two distinct emotions. It sounds like a stretch put just like that, and I'm not so sure that I can reword it without skewing what they're trying to say, so check out this link: 1
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That's not a hole in the function of anger. The desire for revenge and holding a grudge in general are strongly correlated with anger, and typically (though not always) result from anger, but they are still separate distinct feelings and separate from anger. But, if you insist that they must be considered a part of anger, it still isn't a hole. It's simply a case of the benefits of anger outweighing the drawbacks in terms of genetic success; a tradeoff if you will. For a trait to be 'selected for' does not require that it aids our overall longevity; it only requires that it assists us in reproduction. If anger makes an individual more likely to survive to reproductive age, and more able to create offspring at that time, the trait will be passed on even if the drawbacks make long-term survival less likely. In this model, revenge and holding a grudge are not specifically traits that were selected for, but rather side effects of a trait that was selected for. Few traits are positive in their entirety; genes for increased musculature carry a cost in that the body requires more energy to support the additional mass, for example. Genes that result in less musculature result in a body that requires less energy to maintain, but is also physically weaker. Genes for a powerful immune system carry a cost in that the body requires a more varied diet to provide the raw materials for the various antibodies et al. Genes that result in a weaker immune system also result in a body that can subsist on a less diverse diet, but carries the cost of more vulnerability to infection. Genes for stereoscopic vision result in the ability to perceive depth, but carry the cost of requiring a larger proportion of the brain to handle vision. Etc, etc. 1
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So you're dismissing revenge and grudge as nothing more than common abnormalities that came with intelligence? We tackled that as well. But with all due respect, its not really satisfying. I dont blame you though. Here some that we gained on our discussions. 1. As a bargaining tool, it explains the increase in stress levels and need to show dominance. But it does not explain the need for violence. Violence will gravely damage the bargain and has a long term side effects to the relations of the individuals. 2. The show of wrath and brings in the feeling of mistrust and fear. It does not make anyone a better fit for reproduction. 3. We also thought of it as a tool to discipline underlings. But studies show that positive reinforcements can bring in better results and negative ones can increase the production but decrease the quality of the training. No matter what angle we all look at, it does not make any sense as to why we get angry. 1
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I'm not dismissing them at all, just stating that they aren't necessarily relevant to the question "What is the use of anger?" and pointing out that traits don't necessarily have to have a legitimate function. Don't forget that what I have linked is not a hypothesis, but a theory. A link further down goes to the actual study, as well as predictions made and verified by said theory. That doesn't necessarily make it correct, but it makes it the best fit we currently have. 1) Violence is necessitated in nearly all species at a base level as part of competition for resources. Among other things, anger and violence can be leveraged in a dispute over potential mates. Violence may damage a bargain with one individual, but prior to such things as the Better Business Bureau there was little stopping someone from just bargaining with someone else. 2) It's not a direct cause-effect relationship. It's more like this: Anger -> Better bargaining position -> More available resources and mates as well as better chance to survive. It doesn't make them a better fit for reproduction, it makes them more likely to survive long enough to reproduce, and with additional resources makes it more likely for them to reproduce more, and more likely for the resultant offspring to survive to sexual maturity and reproduce themselves. Genetic success is a numbers game, and there are many ways to either succeed or fail, as can be seen in the diversity of life in general and the varying reproductive practices of different species. I might also suggest that mistrust and fear mattered little to the reproductive success of an individual in times before there was any kind of legal structure (or even a word for rape). 3) Positive reinforcement is a relatively new concept all told; it's not something we typically see in the wild- at least not in and of itself. Furthermore, a combination of positive reinforcement and discipline is more effective than either alone. I'll acknowledge that in modern society, anger makes little sense; but early man did not have any of the advantages that we now take for granted; the benefits of anger are greatly amplified in such a circumstance, and the drawbacks (which ultimately take the form of increased risk of death) are somewhat mitigated by a significantly lower life expectancy anyway. I should also reiterate that the theory I've posted does in fact make sense, back up it's claim, and can make valid demonstrable predictions using its conclusion as a premise. Are you suggesting that you can offer a data point that puts that conclusion under dispute? If so, I'd like to see it; otherwise I'm going to stick with the accepted theory until the data doesn't pan out, and then see how it can be revised. 1
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I was just about to click back to that link that you provided but damn. All the arguments are missing for some reason. Oh well, I just browsed my history and made some further research. 1. In the world of animals, indeed, violence is an effective way of surviving and flourishing but to animals with the ability to remember and hold a grudge, it is not an efficient tool at all. Im not saying youre wrong, no; i wholeheartedly agree but its just that it doesn't seem to fit in. Aggression commonly results to self destructive acts of personal vendetta that brings no benefits to anyone. 2. I was referring to being a trustworthy mate. No one wants to have a violent husband or a shrieking wife. In the animal kingdom, the show of dominance and the possession of a harem can only bring you so far. Mankind has evolved its culture from aggressive to passive and made marriages a serious commitment between a single couple for a good reason. By being passive, we learned how to listen to our society better and by being comited to a single partner, all out attention are concentrated to a form a stronger family bonding without any discrimination 3. So we came to the same conclusion: Anger is a primitive psychological defense that humanity have outgrown? You got it twisted. I am in complete agreement with the research done. However, there are some point that doesnt seem to make sense, at least for now 1
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Yeah, I see no arguments either, that's really strange Doesn't seem to be affecting any other debates. I don't keep browser history because I'm paranoid and I work IT so I know theres legitimate reason to be, so I cant really check back on the previous stuff. Of course many of these points don't make sense in the context of a modern society though- but genes don't just disappear when they are no longer needed, but rather tend to persist until they are either selected against or they just disappear due to random genetic drift in the lack of pressure. Consider this though: Wouldn't you consider an anger-prone individual to be more prone to being an abusive individual? Logic would dictate that someone would not stick with an abusive partner, but the reality of it is otherwise- both men and women tend to stick with abusive partners rather than break from them. In this sense, anger is still being selected for even now! 1
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If I am correct, women tend to stick with abusive males because instinct tells them to seek dependable mates that can protect them. But it often backfires As for males, I cannot find a reason for finding "bitches" attractive. Other than nonconsensual sex, they are not efficient for rearing and nurturing children. I agree, anger is probably just a trait that will soon be gone through evolution. Mankind will get less aggressive but wiser. 1
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http://www.bbc.com/future/story/ We have always hoped that “if only we introduced some fantastic new communication machine the world will be transformed.” Instead, though, even our best and brightest devices must be accommodated within existing practices and assumptions in a “world that has whatever organisation it already has.” Surely it’s only a matter of time – the theory goes – before we finally escape, augment or otherwise overcome human nature and emerge into some new phase of the human story. But centuries of technological advancement shows that human frailty is inescapable. After all..., we are only human ;)
Supporting Evidence:
http://www.bbc.com/future/story/
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