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 What is wrong with capitalism? (8)

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DS0330(267) pic



What is wrong with capitalism?

I made a debate a while back on communism, now I will do capitalism. If you oppose capitalism(Not many will), what is wrong with it?
Even if you are a social democrat who still accepts the capitalist framework, what do you think is wrong with more bare capitalism?
Even if you accept capitalism, is there any small problems you may have with it?
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Regardless of the system it will always be corrupted by people.

The best that we can do is to introduce disciplines and laws to reduce the corruption, it never will, nor never could be completely eliminated, such is the congenital corrupt nature of mankind.

The contrast between capitalism and communism was graphically illustrated in the old East and West Germany.

Both systems were/are corrupt but those citizens living in the capitalist West of the country enjoyed a significantly better standard of living than their fellow countrymen and women in the communist East.

I consider that such debates are more engaging if the criticisms of one system, be it democracy or capitalism, or whatever are accompanied by a better but realistic alternative, or at least how the status quo can be improved.

Every existing institution can be criticised and ridiculed. However, such criticisms are meaningless without producing logical and workable alternatives.

DS0330(267) Clarified
1 point

Regardless of the system it will always be corrupted by people.

True, there will be some people who try to gain through dishonest means.

The best that we can do is to introduce disciplines and laws to reduce the corruption, it never will, nor never could be completely eliminated, such is the congenital corrupt nature of mankind.

I would disagree on that. The state(what the laws are enforced by) has always been an institution of corruption, that is the nature of people and political power, so it creates another corruption issue. However, if you assume the state is necessary, then I guess it would have to be dealt with.

The contrast between capitalism and communism was graphically illustrated in the old East and West Germany.

Both systems were/are corrupt but those citizens living in the capitalist West of the country enjoyed a significantly better standard of living than their fellow countrymen and women in the communist East.

I never knew communism has actually existed during the capitalist era. You mean the state socialist totalitarian one-party states?

I consider that such debates are more engaging if the criticisms of one system, be it democracy or capitalism, or whatever are accompanied by a better but realistic alternative, or at least how the status quo can be improved.

Every existing institution can be criticised and ridiculed. However, such criticisms are meaningless without producing logical and workable alternatives.

People will think of different solutions, but they may not all be working solutions. There will always be disagreement on what we should do. Most solutions will never be tried.

Winklepicker(1021) Clarified
2 points

It must be recognized that the nature of people does not change because they are state employed as opposed to employment within the private sector.

The state does not have a monopoly on corrupt individuals. Corruption exists in every corner of society.

During the 26 years of running my own business I dealt with all government departments and specifying authorities and, whilst I was never involved in any skulduggery I was aware that contracts worth £ millions were awarded to companies which never completed a fraction of the works but were paid the full contractual price.

This of course was only the top of the iceberg and involved politicians and senior management of public bodies.

When exposed the standard investigations were instigated. They all had one common denominator, they were all a white wash with the same outcome. Even though fictitious invoices for millions were submitted and paid for, the work was either never carried out at all or only partially completed to an unacceptable standard. Even though there was never any denial of the aforementioned criminal activity no one was prosecuted.

As general manager in Northern Ireland for a multi-national concrete manufacturer a large part of my time was spent trying to control theft by significant % of the workforce force.

This dishonesty/corruption was prevalent in every country in which my employers conducted business. These operational centres included almost every western nation from Australia to Ireland.

The thieving pattern was the same in all countries.

In my own business thieving by workmen and the misappropriation of company funds by administrative staff was rife.

Eastern Germany was controlled by the old communist regime of the U.S.S.R. and it was known to be have a more staunchly communist administration than their Soviet masters.

As one of your other respondents commented, it's not the capitalist system which is wrong, it's the people.

To reiterate, any system of trading or governing will always be corrupted by people. To think otherwise is juvenile, if not reckless naivety.

1 point

the problem isn't with capitalism. It's with the human condition. If we can exploit and abuse capitalism, then we will. That doesn't mean capitalism is the problem. It only means that we are. I like capitalism. I trust it. But I don't trust humanity. We are corrupt, we are greedy, we are conniving, crafty, and scheming deceivers. What people don't realize is that "nothing from outside" is going to end us or destroy us. It is from within us that we will destroy ourselves and everything around us.

DS0330(267) Clarified
1 point

Then that is a problem with capitalism in practice since capitalism is a system of people and if it doesn't work for them, then that would be a problem.

logicaljoe(529) Disputed
1 point

when the planes went into the world trade center towers, did we officially claim we now have a problem with planes?

In my own simplistic thinking, I think in capitalism, you have more freedom to pursue your own interests and dreams as an individual; the individual is empowered. In communism, you are an ant who follows a path laid out for you by the powers that be; your mission is to pursue the collective agenda, not the individual, thus ensuring that the upper echelon stays in control. The latter kills, innovation, drive, inspiration and dreams; the former nourishes it.

1 point

Most of the issues I can recall with capitalism boil down to motivations. When the prime purpose of everything is to create profit, but profit does not always reflect the needs or desires of the people, the people can become mistreated and upset.

Honestly, while I dislike capitalism it does do a fairly good job. It's just the dozens of cases that pop up all the time where the system of capitalism is totally unfair. The law does an alright job of making patchwork over the holes in suiting capitalism to the people, but it isn't perfect.