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34
34
will happen again will not happen
Debate Score:68
Arguments:37
Total Votes:90
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 will happen again (16)
 
 will not happen (21)

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JakeJ(3254) pic



What will it take to get a Conservative in the White House?

I mean a real Conservative, not some moderate Republican. 

will happen again

Side Score: 34
VS.

will not happen

Side Score: 34
4 points

Well, outside of angry Conservatives, the rest of the world seems to realize that Obama is a very moderate liberal. Clinton was moderate. Bush was thought to be moderate in the election he lost by just a little but was put in office anyway, and by the time people figured out he was not moderate at all, there was a war going on, and war presidents almost always get re-elected.

Bush senior was moderate.

Reagan was maybe not moderate, but certainly not crazy right at the time, by today's standards he would be considered a moderate.

Starting to see a pattern?

But as I've been saying, the Republicans have been high-jacked by the far far right and the religious right. They have you Conservatives thinking crazy things, like that you should be listening to Rush, that Palin is a good idea, and that Obama is some kind of socialist (hell, I'm dissappointed at just how centrist he is, but he's a really good pres so far.)

A republican will be in the white house again as soon as they figure out how to keep church and state separate, and can figure out how to get a moderate through their primaries without the swift boat crowd crucifying them (McCain v. Bush 2000.) That's really hard though, if by the current Conservative scale Obama is a socialist, and McCain is a moderate, you'll have to get your sense of balance first.

Side: will happen again
2 points

Just wait for bad things to happen on a Democrat's watch... people will then be voting Republican.

in the history of presidency, that is usually what helps. Events. Not sound logic, just events.

Bush had the unpopular War which got the Democrats elected into the House and Senate (which did nothing to stop the war apparently), and on their watch we tanked into a recession (which the people blamed Bush on). For that, people didn't want a Republican no matter what. Even someone like McCain, a moderate down to Earth guy who believed in moderate approaches, it wasn't good enough. The idiots only saw "Republican" so they voted for one of the most Liberal guys in the Senate.

If Obama can't fix the Recession or end the Iraq War, it's likely that a Conservative will get elected again. Americans have a very bad short term memory.

Side: will happen again
1 point

Even someone like McCain, a moderate down to Earth guy who believed in moderate approaches,

I lol'd

Side: will happen again
1 point

You missed the point of the debate Pyg. Jake wants what he calls a "real" conservative following the narrative that the republicans don't need to moderate. This debate seems to fit in the whole "republicans trying to figure themselves out" thing not just Republican v. Democrat.

Side: will not happen
ThePyg(6757) Disputed
2 points

then all i have to do is shorten my answer.

yes, because that's how it's always been. Conservative Republicans vs. Liberal Democrats.

Side: will happen again
1 point

Damn Straight

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Side: will not happen

Watch what happens when Jake gets out of college...run for your life liberals and moderates!

Side: will happen again
1 point

THATS RIGHT I will dominate, mwuahaha

Would I get your vote? ...please?

... I got cookies..... :D

Side: will happen again

I don't want a conservative in the White House, personally. I don't think anybody does right now. But, that's not to say that it may happen again, whether it be in the near future or far in the future.

Side: will happen again
3 points

First of all candidates who are not moderate have a much greater difficulty getting elected. How exactly do you define moderate and extreme conservative?

Side: will not happen
ThePyg(6757) Disputed
1 point

Obama is hardly a moderate. the only thing he's moderate on is Gay Marriage (he's against it).

But as a Democrat, he believes in exactly what the Democrats believe in and actually had the most liberal voting record in the Senate.

People like partisanship, believe it or not. especially in a time like this where everyone wanted to blame Bush for everything. There was no way being Conservative would be helpful. (and, McCain was a real moderate, look at the good it did him against a real liberal).

Side: will happen again
ledhead818(632) Disputed
4 points

Most people in America have absolutely no concept of liberal vs. conservative. Why don't you ask a European what they think a liberal is? Our country has completely bastardized the terms so much, they really don't make sense anymore. Anywhere else in the world Obama would be considered a centrist, maybe left leaning.

Obama is also far less liberal than you think, to my chagrin.

"But as a Democrat, he believes in exactly what the Democrats believe in"

I love this line. Because someone is a Democrat and say they agree with the platform of the Democratic party, this must be because they are lying, not because they joined the Democratic party because they agree with it.

"Actually had the most liberal voting record in the Senate."

There is no objective way to quantify someone's voting record. This talking point comes from the review by the National Journal. Regardless of the fact that Obama missed many important votes, according to the National Journal itself, a partisan organization, Obama and Hilary Clinton are "identical ideological twins." They could not find any real differences in their positions. Yet Clinton was ranked the 16th most liberal member, and Obama was ranked first and Biden second. This is over the one senator who voted against the Patriot Act. Here is another interesting fact, the past two elections the National Journal has named the Democratic nominee the most liberal member of the senate. Interesting especially considering that Kerry was clearly not the most liberal member. The media and consequently ignorant conservatives seem to think Obama is some crazy left wing liberal, but this is far from the truth and I can tell you many things he has done that are not liberal enough for myself and many others.

All of this aside, you seem to have missed to my point. I never mentioned the presidency exclusively. I meant politicians in general have trouble getting elected if they are not moderate. So while Obama may represent the left side of moderates and therefore compared to moderates be rather liberal, I was referring to the wide political spectrum in which he is absolutely a moderate.

"McCain was a real moderate, look at the good it did him against a real liberal"

One of McCain's biggest mistakes was picking Sarah Palin as his running-mate. Sure she "excited" the party base who was going to vote for him anyway, but she severely alienated moderate conservatives and independents who are the people who actually have to be persuaded each election. Trying to be more conservative will only hurt the Republican party more.

Side: will not happen
2 points

Obama is definitely a moderate. No question. You can this easily by how angry his base is with him on certain things.

You're right that McCain was a moderate, but he didn't run as one and he chose and ultra conservative who spoke like she just left high school.

Side: will not happen
Pineapple(1448) Disputed
1 point

Personally, Obama may be against same sex marriage because of his religion, but legislatively he supports it.

He opposed Prop 8, and has sworn to support any effort to repeal DOMA.

Side: will not happen
MisterGuy Disputed
1 point

"But as a Democrat, he believes in exactly what the Democrats believe in and actually had the most liberal voting record in the Senate."

LOL...that "record" is the exact, same thing that they tried to do to Kerry in 2004, and it's total bunk. That "study" didn't take into account the fact that both Kerry & Obama were not in the Senate a lot while they were running for President. The idea that either of those guys were more liberal than Bernie Sanders is a total joke.

"(and, McCain was a real moderate, look at the good it did him against a real liberal)."

McSame ran away from every position that gave him his baloney "maverick" status in the first place, and that's one of the main reasons that he lost in 2008.

Side: Who knows

I love it. "REAL conservative". By your own words you guys are still at war with yourselves. Republicans just had a "real" conservative in the white house and look what happened. What's going to happen is the overtly religious part of the republican party will be excised from mainstream politics because you guys are killing the republican party.

religion is one of the main reasons your party sucks now. Smaller government can't happen with religious extremists wanting to control reproductive rights and interfering with family decisions like terry schaivo and wanting to deny gay people rights. When they say less spending they mean for everything but the military as they have shown since Reagan with insane budget deficits because their holy wars can't be stopped, Repubicans ALWAYS need an enemy to frighten people into voting for them for the last 30 years. The dems also used this tactic (I'm looking at you LBJ) but not for a while now. Conservatives talking about "family values" is also a joke by the way. No movement has more sex scandals, especially when it comes to man on man sex. Numerous examples could be cited.

So no. Your "real" conservatives don't even know what they believe in and have been trying to shit on the rest of us for too long. They had their shot and big surprise they sold out like everyone else. Your movement needs to realize what conservative actually means, because it doesn't mean theocracy. If you want to see what a real conservative loks like I would suggest looking at Daniel Hennan, Member of the European Parliament. This is what conservative used to look like, staggeringly intelligent technocrats who knew how things worked. Now you just come off as a bunch of zealots.

Side: will not happen
ThePyg(6757) Disputed
3 points

Bush is a REAL conservative? you do realize that he approved the initial bail out plan, correct? certainly not a Conservative thing to do. So no... he's not a real Conservative. Remember, they're against redistribution of wealth in ALL forms.

on sex scandals. the only reason why Conservatives are attacked more for this is because they have set a standard. It's easy to get away with sex scandals if you don't have any standards on it. What about all of the conservatives and Republicans who do live by these standards? are they a joke?

Jake isn't saying all Republicans are real Conservatives. That's just how he wants it to be. He wants a real Conservative. To me, that would be real fuckin' bad, but so would a true Liberal or any jack-hole politician. I would have been pissed off at other things if McCain/Palin were elected instead. They're all faggots in my opinion.

Remember: Conservatives are just as bad as Liberals. Republicans are just as bad as Democrats. One isn't better than the other. I only prefer Republicans because their IDEALS are slightly better (gun rights and against wealth redistribution). Sure, I love more Liberal ideologies, but Democrats don't live up to them (gay marriage, drugs, prostitution, gambling, etc.). Since Republicans are AT LEAST able to live up to the few things i like about them, i prefer them. But, in the whole, they're just as shitty as Democrats.

Side: will happen again

I agree with nearly everything you said here. I know, a shock.

PS- Both side redistribute wealth

Repubs to the top

Dems to the bottom

Side: will happen again
1 point

Nope, Bush was the last moron............................................................

Side: will not happen

If a real Conservative is not inclusive of all (including Gays) he will not be elected as President.

Side: will not happen