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Debate Score:32
Total Votes:37
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 What would it take to shake your atheist/agnostic faith? (19)

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joecavalry(37423) pic

What would it take to shake your atheist/agnostic faith?

change in belief system
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3 points

When the clouds part, a huge face looks down at me from the sky, points and says "Adam... I'm real. Believe in me!"

But until that happens (and I'm damn well sure it never will) I'm perfectly happy being an atheist.

jessald(1915) Disputed
4 points

I agree. Only I'd want a whole bunch of people to see the same thing so I'd know I wasn't going nuts. And naturally I'd want the whole event to be subjected to rigorous scientific investigation :)

But seriously, if God would only let us know that he exists, there would be so many more believers. In fact, I think God's silence makes a strong argument for his non-existence.

1 point

Well, if I were God I don't know that I would want to talk to a bunch of atheist ;)

3 points

First off, as other people have pointed out, atheism/agnosticism are not based on faith unless you have faith in the empirical or faith in your interpretation of reality, but then still, they are on different sides of the spectrum.

Also, there is no need to change, for atheists or agnostics. If religion is right, when we die, we will see god... but if religion is not right, all of you religious people have wasted a lot of your time being alive believing a man made lie.

I think if there is a god, especially a good god, he will understand why I didn't believe in him and will accept me for who I am. Would a good god punish someone for protecting themselves from the rest of the corrupt world? If he was not religious because he thought it was a corrupt man made system to control people?

I know that I'm a good person, if he sends me to hell then there must be a lot of other good people there too that I can hang out with for eternity.

If you're bored try reading "Paradise Lost" by John Milton, it's a really interesting poem about Satan.

2 points

First off, I dislike the label "Faith" being placed on atheism. It's not faith in anything, it's the lack of faith or trust. As far as believing in the supernatural goes, I'll ask the Whore of Babylon which religion is true when she comes out of the Stripper Factory in Pastafarian heaven; until then, I don't plan on interpreting current events using any particular religion or any particular branch of one. If you take the right bit of minor prophecy and do some lateral thinking, you can make a lot of things appear to be portentous, and I'm sure that if someone tried they could prove categorically that we're in the biblical End Times, or that the Rupture did happen in 1998, or that Instrumentality is occurring right now and that this whole site is just the inner self-analytical monologue of you, the reader.

In short, yes, it would take something apocalyptic to convince me that a religion is true, and even then I'd probably discuss it on the 'net first and try to be sure that CERN weren't just dicking around.

Everyone has their beliefs, their faiths, whether or not you believe in a god(s), a force of some mystical origins, or a natural force it doesn't matter much to me. Everyone has their "god", everyone has their "religion", whether or not it is in the contemporary, common definition of "religion" there is still faith in the mind of the atheist/agnostic.

To a Pagan, it isn't that difficult to call what atheists believe in a "faith". And yes, I know, atheism is a statement against belief in a religion, not a religion. However, atheists have minds that hold non-religious beliefs as well. Most atheists believe in SOMETHING, whether it is science (materialism), themselves, a nation (patriotism), their families, their friends, theories, laws, facts, figures, money, power, fame, television; everyone, including atheists, worship someone or something.

An idea, a person, a place, a country, a group of people, themselves (their ego). Belief doesn't stop at the temple doors.

I should say, that though many of you are likely to protest what I am saying (which has been said many times in many ways) you can't escape the truth of it.

Besides, it isn't as if all religions have gods; I'd hardly call Taoists, Confucians, Pythagoreans..etc.. atheist.

No matter who you are, there is an end to your ability to prove yourself correct. At some point you must take a leap of faith, backed by no evidence or logic. There is no way for you to "prove" anything true, after all. The best scientists in the world can only say they are sure of any fact or law "99.9%", there is only disproof. At some point you are saying to yourself "this is true because I feel it to be true, it seems correct".

You'll come across this more often than you'd like to think, especially if you truly examine your belief structures.

So let's not say what would "shake your atheist/agnostic faith"; let's say what will make you expand your current faith to encompass traditional religious belief.

2 points

The same things that would shake the beliefs of any Jew, Muslim, Catholic, etc. Usually these things are crises. Given the right combination of crises, any person will question their belief system--organize or otherwise.

My only regret is that I have but one "up vote" to give you.

1 point

You're asking what proof would change faith and well they're sort of opposites. If you have faith in something that's because there ISN'T any proof. If something proven/factual is disbelieved we call that delusion--not a lack of faith. Perhaps you should rethink this debate.... try to reward a new debate and delete this one, maybe?

1 point

As an agnostic I find the lack of proof on either side to lead me to not really care either way, any good supportable scientific evidence in any direction would do it for me.

1 point

Nothing. By definition atheists\agnostics do not have faith. Faith is the belief in a concept in the absence of proof. Atheists don't believe in god because of this lack, and agnostics are theological fence sitters who can't make up their mind. A better question would be what would it take for you to believe in a higher power?

1 point

When the sky turnes red and tentacles are grabing people from the streats I will believe that there is an angry god or something.

1 point

That would be the day! Ubbo Sathla has returned to end what he begat!

1 point

Atheism and agnosticism are as compatible as Atheism and Christianity.

I'm an agnostic, arguably speaking the most sensible position.

1 point

Atheism really can't be considered a faith and once you learn the truth it's difficult to unlearn it.

Side: Religion is Bullshit
1 point

What it would take is the following miracle: I wake up one morning and all humanity renounces their many religions and gods and agrees on one and the same god. I don't care if it is an existing god, or if they make up a whole new one, or an amalgam of the old ones. And I mean they do it willingly, not at the point of a sword or gun. I think this is a miracle only a true god could pull off. I could believe in the existence of such a god

Side: Religion is Bullshit
1 point

The "Rapture". The day I wake up and find that a bunch of Christians are missing is the day I will feel like the stupidest guy in the world.

Side: Religion is Bullshit

I've sometimes wondered what it would it take to make me a believer. Would it be the rapture? Some one finding the Ark of the Covenant or the Holy Grail? The prophecies of Ezekiel 38-39 coming true? Being on my death bed or watching my life flash before my eyes? What would it take? I haven't been able to define it yet, so I'm looking for ideas.

BTW, if you're not an atheist or an agnostic, please don't be offended if I sent you an invite. I just grabbed everyone on the list. I'll have to plan better next time.

Side: Religion is Bullshit