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27
21
It worked when... It hasn't
Debate Score:48
Arguments:51
Total Votes:49
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 It worked when... (25)
 
 It hasn't (20)

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When has Anarchy worked?

There have been numerous times throughout history where there has been an absence of standardised rule. Has it ever worked well for the people involved? If it worked well, why hasn't it lasted? If it's better, then where is it now?

(If the terms of this debate are too subjective to provide an answer, please define in your own terms what it means for a system to work well and then go from there.)

It worked when...

Side Score: 27
VS.

It hasn't

Side Score: 21
2 points

There have been numerous times throughout history where there has been an absence of standardised rule.

I believe this to be an incorrect statement because it is based on an assumption and misunderstanding of those who favor the voluntaryist society. There really has never been a time where some sort of standard way of doing things was missing. If each one of us has a brain then, we have a standard from which to work, even if on a personal basis.

This follows and by extension folks will come up with voluntary and mutual agreements. I believe the fight comes in when some believe they can dominate over others. There are those who seek only to dominate others and if their is an available position or seat of "power" they will naturally move towards it. That being said, we can not forget that we all can become corrupted. And "Power corrupts, and is attractive to the corruptible."

The author of this debate may be looking for a comparison between a central "body of authority" and examples of decentralized societies or even no one ruler telling everyone else what to do.

There are historical examples of centralized ruling class a.k.a. the "State" and examples of what is called "Stateless societies."

Has it ever worked well for the people involved?

Tentatively, yes, in various degrees as applied to the "stateless society", but it depended on some factors as well. The Irish had a private law "system" in place called the Brehon Laws and it lasted nearly 2,000 years; must have worked pretty well to last so long. So, well that a King of England in the latter part of the "middle ages" made it "illegal" by his decree for an Englishman to live in Ireland and operate by the Irish system. Apparently, he felt the need to do so because his "subjects" were favoring the Irish way. I believe it was due to a degree of freedom it afforded to folks in living their lives.

Perhaps another example could be pointed out was the "Confederation" under the Articles of Confederation; the document the colonialists operated by while fighting for their Independence from England. It was not a central authority and the "Continental Congress" had to seek agreement from the other states to first declare war on England, then, providing support towards the fighters.

If it worked well, why hasn't it lasted?

Nothing good or bad lasts forever in this physical realm, thats just reality. If the true question is what has been the best benefits from the two types I pointed out and why, then I would answer that it would be the stateless society, yet, it would have to be modified to fit the current times; the free market approach would be the best place to start towards that IMHO.

If it's better, then where is it now?

America after the War for Independence has been a boiling pot to experiment with such political "systems" that the proponents tout as being the best. From flat out "communism" in the truest sense in the form of communities geared towards that to "socialistic" communities. Other ones would be based on free-market capitalist principles and mutually beneficial agreements. I say we have the latter in our everyday lives when we interact with people we personally know. We have the former in terms of the use of "politics" to force our neighbor to pay for things they are morally opposed to because "well by god he is just wrong; regardless of his beliefs". That mindset is what has operated in opposition to the "Bill of Rights" and has led us to almost a "totalitarian State".

It seems to me that everyone personally has an ideal "utopia" and what they think is what "should be how people live" but, what this says to me is "one man's utopia is another's dystopia."

Side: It worked when...
2 points

In primitive settlements there is relative anarchy, and their society is much better than ours. Slums such as Dharavi, labelled 'slums of hope' are anarchistic societies, and crime is almost non-existent. Anarchy isn't the complete chaos doom and gloom some think it to be, as truthfully we are in a state of anarchy. Laws only have the power of the related establishment behind them, and are not consistent. if one should amass enough power to be more powerful than the establishment of the area- see trans-national corporations, laws will not apply to them. Okhite!

Side: It worked when...
1 point

In primitive settlements there is relative anarchy, and their society is much better than ours

From this I will assume you haven't lived primitively.

Slums such as Dharavi, labelled 'slums of hope' are anarchistic societies, and crime is almost non-existent

It's interesting that a slum is better.

Laws only have the power of the related establishment behind them, and are not consistent

Inconsistent laws are an injustice, but no law is no solution.

see trans-national corporations, laws will not apply to them.

That's not exactly true. Some things they may buy out of and other things they don't.

Side: It hasn't
Elvira(3446) Disputed
1 point

From my research, some slums look like nice places to live in, apart from the open sewers. I suppose primitive settlements are tribal rather than anarchistic, close but not quite- I'll give. Inconsistent laws, such as the age of buying alcohol: no age, 16, 18, 21, illegal? Do you obey laws just because they are there, are they the only thing that stops you from harming people?

Study TNC's. Coke, for example, is more powerful than some countries. They can go unregulated in these countries, exploiting labour and so on. http://impactsofglobalization.wikispaces.com/A+Case+Study+--+Coca-Cola+in+India

This case study was from a powerful country, less powerful countries don't even get a voice.

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Controlling Corporations/TNCsStride_World.html

Side: It worked when...

I wish I could get an Anarchist or two to weigh in on this.

Side: It worked when...
1 point

The only examples I can think of are the anarchist communes in Spain, and the Paris commune. Neither lasted very long, or introduced much innovation, but everyone got something to eat.

Side: It worked when...
1 point

I will assume from your answer that a system works well if everyone eats, and that it didn't last because it didn't bring innovation. Is that correct?

Were these various communes within the national borders of France or Spain respectively? If so, then these communes don't really qualify as anarchic since national defense is covered by a state.

Side: It hasn't
1 point

Anarchy is temporary thing. Its something we resort to when the ruling body needs to be overthrown. If you are content with your current ruling body then I guess anarchy isn't necessary to worry about.

Side: It worked when...
1 point

Just a question... Do "primitive" indigenous societies count? Like the people of the Amazon rainforest, the Aborigines and any hunter-gatherer society in general?

Side: It worked when...
1 point

That really depends on which primitive society you are talking about. I believe it may count for some, but I couldn't say across the board.

Side: It hasn't
Nebeling(1117) Clarified
1 point

Well I don't know much about these societies have 'elders' that sort of guide and give 'wisdom', things like that. They may even have rules for how to behave in their surrounding nature, but I think it's fair to say that a good portion of them, atleast the smaller of ones, don't have a government in the in any reasonable use of the term. Then again I don't know much of anything about these societies.

However, isn't it true though, that for any sufficiently small community of people, power is almost completely decentralized?

Side: It worked when...

Anarchy always works...People are just not content with living that way.

Side: It worked when...
1 point

North Korean style dictatorship always works...People are just not content with living that way.

Side: It hasn't
Intangible(4934) Disputed
1 point

Dictatorship brings some type of order. Anarchy is disorder.

Try again .

Side: It worked when...
Intangible(4934) Clarified
1 point

People are not content with that so they try to bring order, once you bring order, then it is no longer Anarchy.

Side: It worked when...
1 point

There have been many attempts at anarchism throughout history, including in communities within the United States from time to time, but ultimately all of them have failed, although there are a large number of reasons why each attempt has failed, ranging from lack of a military, to lack of funding, to (and I swear to god I'm not making this up) a division between a community over whether skinny dipping should be allowed in public. Each community has failed, though, even though there are a large variety of causes as to why.

Side: It hasn't

I don't think that an Anarchic society operating within the borders of a non-anarchic nation should be considered fully anarchic. This is because national defense is one of the arguments against such a society and communes within a country don't have to concern themselves.

I know there are several anarchists on this site. Where is the defense of your views guys?

Side: It hasn't
Kitk34(185) Disputed
1 point

So, if there is a small group of people who have pooled their money and bought some land, then they are self-reliant and self-sufficient, are they still obligated to pay for the local "law enforcement" through "taxes"? If they are protecting themselves and not expecting any outside help, are they still morally obligated to pay for it even if they do not want it? (And I do know of such people down in Texas who recently, like in the past two years or so, did this.)

Supporting Evidence: Commune in Texas (intothegardenofeden.com)
Side: It worked when...
1 point

At the beginning I want to talk about anarchy. Some people think that anarchy is chaos. Of course most of us know that they are wrong. Yes in anarchistic society person can does anything what he wants, but unless he interferes in another’s live. So in fact anarchy is apogee of freedom in my opinion. And now I start to talk about when that kind of society was.

I think humanity never had real anarchy. Doesn’t matter about which period of human evolution we will talk. I’m sure that when we were as monkeys (if modern evolution theory is true) we should have a leader of a humans’ pack. However in anarchistic society shouldn’t be a leader or leaders.

Scientists say that man is herd animal. We talk about individual or about freedom, but in fact a group of people listen a person who said something and the group agrees with him. So where is individualism? Here we have manipulating again. That’s also reason why humanity never had and never will have anarchy.

Let’s just imagine that humanity has the real anarchy, real freedom without any government and any countries. All people are friends to each other. I’m sure that in result science, technology and many other things wouldn’t be developing.

In the end I want to remind you that anarchy is mother of order. I strongly believe that it is true. Someone should control that a man didn’t break the rules of anarchy. So if someone controls anarchy is end. And I say again we never had anarchy and never will have it.

Side: It hasn't
Kitk34(185) Disputed
1 point

However in anarchistic society shouldn’t be a leader or leaders.

As I understand it there is a difference between a leader and a ruler and an "anarchistic society" or Voluntary society, as it is called by some, would show the difference because there could be no ruler over anyone external to themselves, bossing people around and telling them what to do or not do with their life.

A leader is someone who leads by an example of what seems to be the best thing to do and they do not ask anyone to do something that they themselves are not willing to do.

Basically, the whole discussion can be summed up to whether an Individual human being will accept and act according to his or her own autonomy. They will either take care of themselves, once adulthood is achieved or they will expect someone else to take care of them; the former tends toward leading to a more productive and fulfilling life, while the latter is counterproductive to that just end and leads to becoming a parasitic human. Therefore, those who wish to dominate over others will be attracted to the power that the created perception a ruler or rulers could have over those who wish to have someone else do their thinking for them.

You spoke of manipulation and there are those who do so, but to say humanity will never achieve a way of life embracing the principles of a truly autonomous life ignores what had been started in America in the 1770's, then, progressed further despite the central ruling class known as the US federal government operating in contradiction of that recognized fact of the autonomous Individual Human being.

Scientists say that man is herd animal.

I have not seen evidence that this is the case, however, I think dominators seek to separate those they wish to use from reality because then, they can herd them like animals. Yet, I do not believe this is anything, but an indoctrinated conditioning and removal of necessary tools for a person to learn how to think for themselves, hence destroying the autonomous human being.

Let’s just imagine that humanity has the real anarchy, real freedom without any government and any countries. All people are friends to each other. I’m sure that in result science, technology and many other things wouldn’t be developing.

That does not seem very accurate because people having friendships may tend toward business creation with innovation and productivity. Again, one only has to look at American history and take note of those who did these things.

However, that is not to say there will not be conflict; that could not possibly disappear because each person is different with their own autonomy that they operate from and personalities clash. Yet, no one who has any sense wants to have violent conflict and will seek the most peaceful solutions. This is where the notion of the word 'government' came to be understood and sought as practicable.

Side: It worked when...