CreateDebate


Debate Info

15
30
Yes, it is. No, it isn't.
Debate Score:45
Arguments:36
Total Votes:49
More Stats

Argument Ratio

side graph
 
 Yes, it is. (15)
 
 No, it isn't. (21)

Debate Creator

Enlightened1(202) pic



When it comes to food, a vegetarian diet is the best choice.

Yes, it is.

Side Score: 15
VS.

No, it isn't.

Side Score: 30
1 point

Yes, a vegetarian diet is the best choice -- assuming "best" accounts for moral superiority.

It is wrong to inflict pain on a sentient being.

3 years ago | Side: Yes, it is.
aveskde(1901) Disputed Banned
1 point

Yes, a vegetarian diet is the best choice -- assuming "best" accounts for moral superiority.

Morality is subjective. The notion that there can be a superiour morality is the same as the notion that there can be a superiour colour, flavour, artwork, etc.

Morality based on desirability: a variety of our food animals may be mistreated and this is frequently criticised, however it is not intrinsic to raising animals for food. The pain involved in the animal's death is effectively ruled out by certain practices like Kashrut and Halal. This may be argued as desirable.

It is also possible to argue that it is undesirable to eat meat because animals are higher on the food chain and therefore more expensive to produce a product from. This is true, however the objection's worthwhile pursuit is proportional to the population and farming methods. A small population with efficient tools will not find raising livestock to be overly taxing in both market cost and environmental cost.

It is wrong to inflict pain on a sentient being.

Morality, again, is subjective.

Morality based on rationality would argue that pain is an intrinsic, and necessary, part of life. It would also be argued that animals raised for food are not required to be abused.

That said:

It is morally wrong to use trivial matters such as diet as an excuse to justify smug or morally superiour behaviour.

3 years ago | Side: No, it isn't.
jessald(1906) Disputed
1 point

Morality is subjective.

Ethics then.

The notion that there can be a superiour morality is the same as the notion that there can be a superiour colour, flavour, artwork, etc.

If you don't think there can be a superior flavor then I'll trade you that ice cream for this pile of dog shit.

The pain involved in the animal's death is effectively ruled out by certain practices like Kashrut and Halal.

I seriously doubt those practices result in zero pain. Regardless, the vast majority of meat that people consume is not obtained through such methods.

Morality based on rationality would argue that pain is an intrinsic, and necessary, part of life.

No it wouldn't. Pain is unnecessary. Even if it is necessary, I'm sure you will agree that it ought to be minimized. Do you not avoid it when you can?

It is morally wrong to use trivial matters such as diet as an excuse to justify smug or morally superiour behaviour.

'I am as immaculate as baby Jesus. I eat meat. This guy is telling me that eating meat is wrong. But if that were true it would imply that I'm not the glimmering avatar I imagine myself to be. That obviously cannot be the case, therefore this guy must be wrong. Perhaps even intentionally wrong. Insidious even! Why I ought to give this dirtball a piece of my mind.'

3 years ago | Side: Yes, it is.
1 point

YES GUESS WHAT CUASE I DONT EAT LIVING CREATURES YEAHH BETTER BELIEVE IT!

3 years ago | Side: Yes, it is.
1 point

You tell 'em, buddy.

..................................................

3 years ago | Side: Yes, it is.
aveskde(1901) Disputed Banned
1 point

YES GUESS WHAT CUASE I DONT EAT LIVING CREATURES YEAHH BETTER BELIEVE IT!

Not many people in the west eat living animals.

We all eat living creatures, however, in that bacteria are creatures and they live on everything including our food.

3 years ago | Side: No, it isn't.
1 point

Yes, Vegetarian diet is the best choice to be healthy. It contains all nutritional element in it.

3 years ago | Side: Yes, it is.
1 point

Please provide evidence that plants satisfy all needs of human bodies. I would like to believe this because I would like to refrain from meat as a moral choice but I can't support the idea scientifically. It would be at the expense of my health to forgo meat.

3 years ago | Side: No, it isn't.
aveskde(1901) Disputed Banned
1 point

Please provide evidence that plants satisfy all needs of human bodies. I would like to believe this because I would like to refrain from meat as a moral choice but I can't support the idea scientifically. It would be at the expense of my health to forgo meat.

If you research sources of protein, soy contains all the necessary amino acids and is comparable to meat. The issue isn't that eating a vegan diet will harm you, instead you must learn about it because any radically changed diet may lead towards malnutrition for the neophyte.

http://faq.aces.uiuc.edu/faq.pl?project_id=5&faq;_id=74

Of course, this is merely half the battle. The other half is making that protein taste good, or as good as animal-based products.

3 years ago | Side: No, it isn't.
ggsaylor123(9) Disputed
1 point

It does contain the nutritional elements, as long as the person keeps track of there diet and gets in enough protein. But that doesn't make it healthier. Following a balanced, omnivorous diet with some portions of meat also gives all the necessary nutritional elements, and it's a lot easier to get them in.

326 days ago | Side: No, it isn't.

With the right type of fruits and vegetables in your diet yes!

Do some research to figure out what your body needs and then do some research on what type of "vegan foods" provide this.

326 days ago | Side: Yes, it is.
6 points

In the right quantities, meat is good for you. We evolved to eat and digest it for a reason. Unfortunately, the average American diet consists of entirely too much meat, especially red meat, and not enough of other food groups, so it's deceptively easy to say a vegetarian diet is clearly healthier. But this is not necessarily so; vegetarians who do not carefully monitor their intake of protein and other nutrients can suffer from malnutrition. It happens that people who have chosen a vegetarian diet are typically more attentive to what they consume, making them, on average, healthier than someone who hasn't made any specific choices about their eating.

A diet philosophy is only as good as the effort one is willing to put into it. Someone who eats meat regularly but sparingly, limits oils and sugars, and ensures they eat enough of the other food groups is probably going to be comparably healthy to a vegetarian or vegan with the same commitment to eating well.

3 years ago | Side: No, it isn't.
jessald(1906) Disputed
1 point

We evolved to eat and digest it for a reason.

The reason was that any kind of food was scarce. Now all the nutrients found in meat can easily be obtained from alternative sources, so that reason is no longer valid.

3 years ago | Side: Yes, it is.
zombee(1023) Disputed
2 points

Regardless of why we began to eat meat, our bodies are adjusted to it; it is a part of our natural diet. Meat is still the most easily obtainable and digestible source of complete proteins, iron, and other vitamins. You can balance and combine vegetarian alternatives to achieve the same results...or you can just eat lean meat in moderation.

3 years ago | Side: No, it isn't.
aveskde(1901) Disputed Banned
1 point

The reason was that any kind of food was scarce. Now all the nutrients found in meat can easily be obtained from alternative sources, so that reason is no longer valid.

Not for everyone. Some of us live in villages, small towns, poverty, etc.

Not all of us enjoy access to ultra-organic, vegan, raw food, macrobiotic supermarkets with a bottomless wallet.

3 years ago | Side: No, it isn't.
2 points

You can get by as an ovo vegetarian no problem, but other than that there are things in meat that your body cannot do without.

I suppose it depends on what purpose you're building your diet around. For me, vegetarianism definitely isn't the best choice.

3 years ago | Side: No, it isn't.

From what I understand, the human brain is composed largely of fats, if a person undergoes a vegetarian diet they will starve their brain of essential fat and it will slowly shrivel, making them dumber and dumber until they are just mush-heads, which is why there is such a problem with liberals and clear thinking. Furthermore, vegetarians are creating a hormonal crisis by taking in an overload of estrogenic foods and creating an unhealthy imbalance of their systems.

3 years ago | Side: No, it isn't.

To get the best nutrition, you need a balanced, variety of foods. *

3 years ago | Side: No, it isn't.

A vegetarian diet gives me gas ;)

3 years ago | Side: No, it isn't.
aveskde(1901) Banned
1 point

I'd like to make an argument from taste.

While a vegan diet can compare to an animal-based one nutritionally (See: link) I would argue that it cannot successfully replicate many of the flavours and textures that a lover of food might enjoy, further I would argue that the taste of certain animal-based dishes, and indeed most of the flavours we obtain from animals' meats, oils, secretions, and bones are worth saving in our culture's food preparations.

For example, in soups the most important component is the base. The base is most often a stock made using bones and marrow with vegetables. You can use only vegetables in the base but you will be missing a vital savoury component. Some cooks use demi glace in place of, or along with, the base. It isn't as simple as using soy or mushrooms for the missing savoury component, because these products have their own flavours. You are at this point trying substitution.

In gravy and sauces, a vital ingredient is the butter, lard or meat drippings (fat). If you use only a vegetable-based oil, you will be sorely disappointed with the result as compared to its animal-based equivalent (also, NEVER use margarine in a roux). The next component is either stock prepared as mentioned in the preceding paragraph, milk, or another ingredient like tomato sauce. In the vast majority of cases you will need a bone-based stock.

In sweet baked goods texture is often heavily influenced by butter, margarine may act as a substitute but it produces its own texture effect (usually chewier, or fluffier/softer). In certain goods you CANNOT substitute (anyone who has made a croissant for example knows this) because it is a matter of chemistry. Eggs are another vital ingredient that is very tricky to emulate the chemistry of by substitute, but from my experience there are some clever substitutes that may solve certain problems that eggs are required for in the dish (such as using starch, or guar gum-containing marketed substitute, to create some degree of binding). If you're making a meringue, an inferiour substitute is singed liquid marshmallow.

As a matter of meat itself, it is very difficult to emulate meat so that it doesn't taste like a substitute. This is the holy grail, as a matter of fact, for the vegan chef. For example, if you wish to emulate ground meat it isn't as difficult as a cut of steak. This is because ground meat has most of its texture stripped away, so it's merely a matter of creating firmness, savoury flavour, and the proper mouthfeel. To this end many vegan chefs have successfully emulated ground meat, which is laudible, using mushrooms, yeast and soy extracts, cereals and grains, and varieties of tofu. What hasn't been done is the full emulation of a steak or cut of meat, because for obvious reasons the texture simply cannot be replicated in a kitchen. I should add that by sheer fortune the sulfur-shelf mushroom, otherwise known as the chicken of the woods, is supposedly a very convincing substitute to poultry in taste and texture. I cannot confirm this through personal experience, as the only time I found one, it was too old and grew too high on an oak tree for me to use.

Candies are the final item I wish to mention. It is clear that one may obtain easily dark chocolate that is free of animal products, indeed only poor-quality dark chocolate has milkfat, however milk chocolate itself requires animal products, as does fudge. I am not convinced that one can easily substitute these ingredients without compromising the product. Perhaps the product most likely to suffer are truffles and other heavy cream-based candies, as the filling requires a fat that gives a silky texture and cream seems to work best for this.

3 years ago | Side: No, it isn't.
jessald(1906) Disputed
1 point

Vegan is not vegetarian. Your argument is mostly a strawman.

3 years ago | Side: Yes, it is.
aveskde(1901) Disputed Banned
1 point

Vegan is not vegetarian. Your argument is mostly a strawman.

Not, it isn't. We are talking about a vegetarian diet, which means a diet void of animal products. If you want to add eggs, butter, milk, cheese, fish, etc. to the vegetarian diet then you are simply making the issue more complicated since it is no longer about the merits of eating only vegetable products and mushrooms. I realise that some people have more complicated diets, but I don't wish to introduce a whole new series of complexities to this debate.

3 years ago | Side: No, it isn't.
1 point

There's nothing wrong with a vegetarian diet, if you do it right. (I do know one girl who had to stop due to medical reasons; she was trying to eat more beans, nuts, etc. but her body wasn't taking it well.)

But there's nothing that makes it better than an omnivorous diet. Meat is okay, even good for you in proper quantities (as it is with many types of food). An only white meat diet might be good to try out. But a monitored, balanced diet with a proper quantity of meat is very healthy, and is not worse than a vegetarian diet.

326 days ago | Side: No, it isn't.


About CreateDebate
The CreateDebate Blog
Take a Tour
Help/FAQ
Newsletter Archive
Sharing Tools
Invite Your Friends
Bookmarklets
Partner Buttons
RSS & XML Feeds
Reach Out
Advertise
Contact Us
Report Abuse
Twitter
Basic Stuff
User Agreement
Privacy Policy
Sitemap
Creative Commons
©2014 TidyLife, Inc. All Rights Reserved. User content, unless source quoted, licensed under a Creative Commons License.
Debate Forum | Big shout-outs to The Bloggess and Andy Cohen.