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I should first point out that posting Bible verses is not support for any debate. That's the claim, not the support for the claim. There is no evidence whatsoever for the concept of eternal life. In fact, biology defines life as a set of six specific traits (homeostasis, growth, reaction to stimuli, the ability to reproduce, metabolism, and the ability to adapt to one's environment). We should note that several of these traits are chemical in nature. And chemistry can't take place without a physical body. So the actual concept suggested in religion is consciousness devoid of the physical mind from which consciousness arises (through the intercommunication of multiple processing centers in the brain). So again, no physical brain - no consciousness.
What the religious have are a series of stories taught by men - nearly always from a time of great ignorance, when having the most popular story meant most people believed the story you had to tell.
As for the suggestion of eternal life through Jesus Christ, no one has yet produced even a single artifact or writing from the Biblical time of Jesus, which supports his existence, or (in the case of writings), even mentions him. Nor do we have any documents mentioning so much as ONE significant event of the New Testament, from the biblical time of Jesus. So the pertinent and rational question would be; if Jesus was causing such unrest and controversy, and performing such amazing miracles, and so many miraculous things occurred in connection with him; why is it that despite having extant military records, military dispatches back to Rome, writings from historians of the day, records from Herod's court, writings from the Temple, and even private writings from Temple Priests, do we have not a single mention of Jesus or of any significant event of the New Testament? Why do ALL of the stories in your Bible, come from non-witnesses writing decades after the supposed events? It leaves the entire world-view of Christianity without a leg to stand on.
The topic here is "do you have eternal iife, or eternal death?". What are you trying to prove? You are trying to prove that you have eternal death and cannot end up dying in Hell forever. Keep on trying if you want to.......you will wake up in Hell.
The drivel you write is just plain boring to a person like me. If you wrote many best selling books with the kind of stuff you obviously think is supposed to be impressive, I would not read one page of any of them...it's nonsense.
The topic here is "do you have eternal iife, or eternal death?". What are you trying to prove? You are trying to prove that you have eternal death and cannot end up dying in Hell forever. Keep on trying if you want to.......you will wake up in Hell.
The drivel you write is just plain boring to a person like me. If you wrote many best selling books with the kind of stuff you obviously think is supposed to be impressive, I would not read one page of any of them...it's nonsense.
Try it and see for yourself. Go ahead and see for yourself if you have eternal dying or eternal life. Go ahead and see for yourself if the fire of Hell imprisons sinners in eternal condemnation.
If you want to believe you become nothing or get reincarnated, or you can attain or get to nirvana by your own efforts or any other means, that's your choice.
You are doing exactly what I suggest you do, you are going to see for yourself...so go.
Reincarnation, nirvana, or simply nothing are some things people hope for when they cannot admit that they deserve to fry in Hell like eternal sausages.
You're making a fool out of yourself. You have one foot in the grave and the other on thin ice melting over the fire of Hell and you think you have the right to exist outside of Hell when dying proves you have no rights at all. All you have is eternal dying, and trying to destroy the only One who can save you is not very bright.
You're making a fool out of yourself. You have one foot in the grave and the other on thin ice melting over the fire of Hell
Omfg, will you just please stop with your 13th century religious scare tactics? Just a couple of weeks ago you were claiming Muslims used fear to intimidate people. You are threatening people with eternal torture you nasty little cretin. Hell is an imaginary place invented by the ancestors of the people who brainwashed you as a child. The only Hell is the one people like you create to intimidate others with.
I'm sorry brother, but you are just an absolute basket case. If God exists then he gave people freedom of choice. Why don't you take a leaf out of his book and give people the same deal? I'm sick of you screaming about "the fires of hell" like some backward Medieval soothsayer.
Banned for using a four letter expletive and not being too stupid to spell it. I want you to keep your potty mouth out of my discussions, and it seems like you have nothing but potty mouth every time you come around. Go cry to Andy about being told you are on your way to Hell and if you don't get saved before it's too late, you and your stinking potty mouth are going to fry like an eternal sausage.
Idiot. When you first came here, you were nothing but a whining cry baby, but for a little while you tried to act like you had enough intelligence to carry on a conversation...until you found out that whining, about being told you are a sinner who deserves to burn in Hell like everybody else, doesn't help you feel better. Suddenly, from then on you turned into the big mouth foul mouth rabid animal, putting on this big punky show as if talking stupid makes you more powerful or intelligent.
You're a fool on your way to Hell. If you had any sense at all, you would fear God.
Quit reading my posts if you are sick of hearing that the fire of Hell is real and sinners....... who will not repent of their sins and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ who died for them to save them from Hell.....will fry there like eternal sausages.
If you don't believe it is true, why should it bother you? Why should you feel like you have to be a monkey on my back screaming about what you don't like? You need to be saved from Hell, and stomping my carcass into the ground will not change that fact.
You are choosing your sin and death over believing God to be saved from Hell. God loves you so He gives you the freedom to make that choice. You're a fool.
It's kind of like God ending your time and banishing you to the fire of Hell when I end your time in my discussions. The difference is that being banned from my discussion, you are still in with the dying outside of Hell's fire. When God gets tired of your mouth and bans you, you will be with the dying inside of the fire of Hell, frying like an eternal sausage if you will not repent of your sins and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.
Claiming to be like God is an obvious sin that I'm surprised you have abandoned yet. Does God forgive if your sinful behavior continues? Or, being a Just God, does he give that which is deserved?
You claim to be like God and you claim that God is not Just. Good luck with that little sizzler. See you there.
I am a child of God, born of His Spirit and when I go to be with the Lord forever, I will be forever changed and never sin again.
You are made in the image of God. If you are just going to act like a devil trying to twist everything around and showing little sign of listening I'm going to put an end to the conversation here.
Why can't you recognize that God is being merciful with you, giving you time, when you deserve no time outside of Hell?
Why do you seem incapable of responding to the possibility of being forgiven by God so that you do not have to suffer what you deserve? Do you think you are winning against God?
Do you think that by playing games with me and putting on a show, you prove that God cannot leave you frying in Hell for eternity in your sin while keeping me safe, covered by His blood, so that I don't have to pay for my sins with my own blood?
It seems like you are a broken record, demanding justice and unable to discuss mercy. Broken records are discarded as waste.
This is reality 101. in your religion, you believe you are exonerated in death and exempt from Hell; though of course your religion of denial declares you need no exoneration and Hell cannot be real. You are not living in reality. In reality, all you have is dying and you are losing everything including your nonsensical argument against God. Keep it up until you are blue in the face and see if you get to exist outside of Hell forever or if you are eternally dying as you are now. The evidence indicates you always have been dying and always will be dying..........unless you get saved.
........I'll take this one since Dadman is slow responding and I don't like seeing it sit here unanswered.
God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. God is three persons in One. The Son, sent by the Father, conquered death to redeem creation and all who believe on Him from the curse of sin and death. He lives in those who believe on Him and receive Him by faith as the Holy Spirit which is God, Christ in His children who are born of His spirit when they repent of their sins, believe on Jesus, and in Jesus name ask God's forgiveness and receive Him by faith as their Savior. The Creator became the Savior, this is how He justifies forgiving those who believe on Him while holding in eternal damnation all who stand in their pride refusing to admit they deserve the punishment of sin; which punishment is eternal damnation in Hell's fire.
By literally ALL of the objective evidence, God is a myth. The religious are quick to believe that their God constantly affects the physical, yet leaves no physical evidence. That's a contradiction. If you do no more than move a dust speck, the new location of the dust speck is physical evidence that the speck has been moved. You simply cannot affect the physical without leaving physical evidence. This is the principle upon which all forensics is based and it tends to work quite well. So to suggest that God affects the physical is contraindicated by the lack of evidence of physical changes devoid of physical causes. And this leaves God firmly in the realm of a myth.
So you are dying and it's all you have forever....you need to be saved. The topic of the discussion here is not whether or not God is God, rather whether or not you have anything other than eternal dying.
Can you please stay on topic? You are dying, forever you are dying. That means your dying is eternal. I guess you like it.
You seem to have a problem between you and God....and you seem to think that by insulting me, you are scoring points against God. You're fooling yourself, and maybe some other fools, but you don't fool me and much less do you fool God.
"Eternal" punishments and rewards are too convenient and binary to be true. For one who claims to 'preach' truth, you sure are a bit too dimwitted.
There's just one thing I don't quite understand - debating in a manner derogatory to your own side, what is it that you hope for? Are you perhaps overly dedicated on a parody on a religion? Or, as you say, you have really managed to hope that such actions can earn you a reward?
Of course, as always, I'm going to be banned with an irrelevant reply that you'd hope to turn out rather provocative, but you'll miserably fail at that. Unless you managed to think something this time, in which case, do surprise me.
PS : Refrain from trying to use your imaginary tortures in your speech against me, and as much of other people as possible. As I believe you now understand, it isn't a one-sided game to play (even though I find it repulsive how you couldn't guess it by yourself and went crying on me for weeks with miserable attempts at being melodramatic). I'll cease those as well - but I assure you, if you decide to not comply this time as well, I won't be putting up the offer another time.
It's just boring to have the guy threatening everyone on eternal totures to act all hurt on me. I'll take the absense of a reply as denial - but you'll have sufficient time to craft an excellent reply, so don't worry about that.
I didn't intend to be harsh, but after seeing your comments, it becomes harder to hold back. Especially since our conversations are more special than your general ones (in our trying to hold back. Don't worry about me, though - I won't act hurt no matter what you say).
I'm not aware of the history and to have full support it would be necessary that I have that. However, from what little I have seen, one might suggest that the true issue is that your faith has been called into question, and having no means by which to support your beliefs, status as a site moderator has been brought into play without appropriate cause.
As for threats, I find him to have been correct. Christianity claims to offer "salvation", but describes only "extortion". If a mugger puts a gun to your head and makes demands, explaining that only by complying with your demands can you escape the threat of his gun, that is extortion by definition. If you are subjected to the threat of Hell and told that only by complying with demands can you escape that threat, then you are again, the victim of extortion. Salvation is when you rescue someone from a peril unconditionally, and didn't intentionally place them in that peril in order to extract from them what they would not choose to give freely.
Since the idea of eternal life is predicated upon this described condition of extortion, and since the Bible also claims that God is "forgiving" but demanded that someone accept punishment, it should be obvious that this is also a falsehood. If punishment is administered, then forgiveness has not been granted. If we are traveling together, and you receive a speeding ticket, when I pay the fine for you, the fine has NOT been "forgiven".
So I'm offering but two examples of where the Bible makes claims which are contradicted by it's descriptions. With that in mind, why would it be appropriate to accept the Bible's claim of eternal life, when there is no evidence whatsoever that eternal life is even possible, and sufficient evidence that the Bible is wrong, and misrepresenting the concepts it presents?
You're a fool. If you want to believe you are as good as God and exonerated in death, keep on doing what you are doing, dying, and see where it gets you. You don't need me to tell you that, you are doing exactly as I suggested you do. You're a fool on your way to Hell.
I banned that guy because he has made serious threats against me and many other people. I did not read his post at all, I never do. You made the mistake of reading it and trying to bring it into the conversation. So you are banned. Go waste your time somewhere else.
You said this fairly well, except for the part where you imply God intentionally brought you into existence to die. You were created to live, you are choosing death over life. God has made the way for you to be saved but you are trying to blame God for your need of salvation; you are trying to blame God for your sinning. You are a sinner, you do it by choice, and you are trying to blame God.....so you won't be saved and you will wake up in Hell except that you repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ who died for you to save you from Hell.
Salvation is when you rescue someone from a peril unconditionally, and didn't intentionally place them in that peril in order to extract from them what they would not choose to give freely.
We live. We do our thing. We die. The story of life. The end is death for all of us. Same with a tree, a fish, a dog, etc.. Believing in an afterlife is helpful, if you can do it I'm sure it will make you feel better. I'm just happy that I've lived longer than many, but, when it ends, it ends. No heaven or hell. I've enjoyed my time here .. most of it ... I feel bad for those who couldn't.
Oh, you want to live forever, or you want to be dying forever? What do you want? Why do you want to stay in reality? Are you afraid of not being in reality? Are you in reality now; and how do you know if you are or not?
You won't be heard for long by anybody who cares if you keep on going the way you are; and you have made it pretty clear that you think you have the right to exist outside of Hell. I want you to stay out of my discussions until you can be reasonable and I don't think that is possible for you.
You simply won't believe Hell is real and and sinners fry there like eternal sausages.......the only way you will believe it is to find yourself unable to get out of the fire, correct? Proof is coming for you, I need no proof, I know where I am going and I know where you are going......except that you repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved, you will be in Hell soon. Fools insist there is no proof.
Can you prove that death is the end for you, and it is not an ongoing eternal state of dying, the same as you are dying here but in a different place where dying never ends?
No, no more than you can prove you will have everlasting life. The writings of some ancient journalist/goat herder prove nothing, (nor do the ramblings of a self appointed "saint").
IF, however, the BIG GUY would show up and give me reason to believe, well..... He (allegedly) showed up about 6000 years ago, but, no proof. Looks like mythology to me. S/HE/IT owes us more than a myth.
Well we are going to see who is right, aren't we? You believe you will see nothing, I believe you will see who is right, and you will have the proof you deny can be had.
That's enough from you, big mouth. You're on your way to Hell and I get tired of watching you go. You will see who is right, keep on hoping to see nothing if you want to.
You're a fool, on your way to Hell and you will know I'm right if you keep on going in your pride telling yourself how great you think you are.
You said your mantra enough, totally unreasonable, you think you are better, stronger, smarter than God. Fine. You're a fool on your way to Hell and I really don't care to watch so I want you to stay out of my discussions.
Nothing in the world makes sense except that the gospel of God in Jesus Christ be true. You make no sense at all, boasting of how great you are while death is taking you down and you insist you are getting out of reality if you want to or not. Bad news for you, you're not getting out of reality and you can't keep yourself out of Hell by insisting you are too good to be left there. If you were too good for Hell you would be too good to die. You're dying and that's all you have now and forever and you are a fool to not listen to reason.
I don't have to prove anything. You can believe whatever you want to believe, you will one day know that Hell is real and unrepentant sinners never will be in the lake of fire forever.
Anybody here who shows the tiniest sign that they are listening will not be banned. You show no sign of listening, you just want to blow your stinking horn as loud as you can proclaiming how great you are. You're offensive and you are a fool. Take it somewhere else and blow it until you are blue in the face and see where it gets you; that's what you want to do so do it old man.
You should just stay out of my discussions. I quit reading your stuff a long time ago. If you like having your face full of dirt, potty mouth, just read your own stuff and go look in the mirror.
Antrim i'm kinda stepping out here but i will let you know what it's like on the other side from my casket with my I-Pad. Now that is as far as i am willing to go on that lol.
sometimes deceiving spirits pretend to be a person who was lost in death, talking to those left behind from some spirit realm.....if Antrim gets a message from something pretending to be you, I hope he does not believe it.
Thank you for your decent comments, and please don't take my response as unkind. I hope the best for you.
The things you have done are done forever, and that is eternal. It's history, it's on record forever. You will give account of yourself to God if you believe it or not. You are not getting out of being you in death.
One thing you said correctly, there is no evidence to suggest that death is anything other than infinite. You are in death now, dying, and it is infinite. You need infinite life or you will have infinite death now and forever, here or in the fire of Hell. You don't have to believe it, you don't have to insult me because I believe it, you don't have to be profane or vulgar as if such behavior proves God does not care what you do......
I like to think that if I say it the right way at the right time, somebody will get it and realize that they need to be and can be saved, and get saved.
It's a topic well worth considering, that is why I get so many responses with it....and that is why I do it; in spite of all the vicious and dirty attacks thrown at me... I know where I'm going and I want to see you there.
As someone concerned with Justice, it is important to me to not accept things that I do not deserve, neither for good or ill. If God is just, he will provide only what is diserved and not that which is not diserved. Which means if God is Just, by your own admission, you are fucked.
Well, it sounds like you are open to reason except for the vulgarity at the end. Was that necessary? I'll let you get away with it this time. If you want to discuss the topic with me here, please refrain from profanities/vulgarities/expletives and slang words used in their place.
So you think it would be unjust of God to leave a sinner in the fire of Hell forever? Was it just that His Son had to die for your sins? Of course not; that is why death could not hold Him in the ground. Is He not just to condemn you if you will not believe He took your place to secure your pardon? Is He not just to condemn you if you will not concede that you deserve the punishment He took for you? And why should your punishment end when He took your punishment in full and did not deserve it? Is He not just to hold you in condemnation when you think what He did for you is unimportant? Would He be unjust to forgive me who has pled for mercy acknowledging my guilt and worthiness of death and whatever punishment God's deems appropriate, even the fire of Hell forever? I know that I deserve to be in that fire forever, I know what I have done and it can't be undone.......but He took my place, He took my punishment and I found He is true to His word offering forgiveness to all who will admit their unrighteousness, believe from their hearts that God has raised Him from the dead after He died for their sins, and in His name call on God to have mercy and forgive them...and by faith to receive Jesus who is God the Savior into their hearts as His throne.........is He unjust to leave in Hell those who deny and defy Him while by His life He justifies me for eternal life?
In that He died for me, He is justified to keep me in life, as He is risen from the dead so I am risen with Him and death loses it's sting against me......I know that I have eternal life, I know I will have a new body like His resurrected body, and this corrupted rotting body will be raised, changed, renewed.
I want you to know God's forgiveness for real for yourself, for God's honor and glory. I want you to go to heaven and we will have plenty of time in eternity to enjoy everything there....showing God's goodness and glory, greatness and honor for creating us and giving Himself for us to save us from what we deserve.
So it is important to you to not accept things you do not deserve. That sounds fair....why should you take the fall when you are not guilty? So you do not deserve to die, and you do not accept death as justice? Do you deserve to live forever? Will God provide eternal life for you because you deserve it? If you deserve it, why do you have to die? Is it fair? Is it justice? Are you guilty of breaking God's law? Are you righteous? Is God unrighteous?
Do you deserve to stand in God's presence? With all of the things you have done testifying to your unrighteousness in God's sight? Do you not deserve to lose everything you think of as good?
So you think it would be unjust of God to leave a sinner in the fire of Hell forever?
On the contrary. If hell is deserved, then justice demands hell. If God is Just, then hell is where anyone who deserves it will go. You have repeatedly stated that hell is what you and we all deserve, hence the meaning of my foul language. If hell is what we all deserve, then by the rule of the Just God, hell is what we will all get.
If you deserve hell and do not go there, then God is not Just.
Anyone sent to Hell according to Christianity is there for eternity so people ' guilty ' of ' sin ' as in fornicating , gambling , atheism are Hellbound for eternity
What crime merits an eternity in Hell ? ....................
I can't speak for Amarel, but I don't think he's saying any crime merits an eternity in hell, he's just talking about if such a crime existed, and/or Christianity was correct.
He's not merely having fun, he's trying to justify himself which is an impossibility, justice stands against all of us and only God's mercy holds us outside of Hell. If we have not secured God's eternal mercy to be pardoned and not condemned, we will reside where sin belongs in the fire of Hell forever. We all deserve to die and burn in Hell forever, God made the way for justice to be satisfied for Him to forgive all who believe on His Son and for justice to be upheld against all who insist they can justify themselves.
Please define justice. I thought justice had to be fair, and tormenting somebody in hell for all eternity in response to a sin that wasn't eternally tormenting anybody else seems unfair to me. Shouldn't punishment be in proportion to the crime if fairness is to be achieved? If so, wouldn't a perfectly fair hell require punishment equal to the damage done in sinning? A perfectly fair heaven also wouldn't be too good, as this would reward people more than they deserve, and thus be unfair.
I believe people in Hell will ask this question many times over the unending span of eternity....and never accept the answer.
Any crime you commit, the tiniest breaking of God's holy law makes you an enemy of His and by it you are condemned to eternity in Hell.....God has offered you pardon, maybe you have disdained Him forever and will never receive pardon. If that's the case, well...........you chose it.
God fulfilled justice against your sin by Himself becoming a man like you, the Son of God and Son of Man, Immanuel (which is, being interpreted, God with us) and executing your punishment on Himself. He shed His innocent blood to be the covering for your sins.....if you will enter into agreement with Him regarding the punishment you deserve. He will consider your debt paid in full and your sins will be covered by His blood so you don't have to pay for them yourself in Hell.....a debt you can never pay off because you will never stop being a sinner. If you will believe He is risen from the dead, and willing and able to forgive you, and ask God in Jesus's name to forgive your sins and be your life, He will come into you and give you a new heart born of His Holy Spirit and be in you a well spring of water flowing up to eternal life. This is the promise of God, His mercy extended to you.........He bought the right to forgive you by dying in your place, He bought me with His own blood and I am covered, I am forgiven, I'm going to Heaven with eternal life.
Yes I deserve to burn in Hell forever but my debt has been paid by God Himself and I am set free..only my body will suffer the consequences of sin and death but I am free forever.
Yes God is just, and you will face Him as your Judge if not under His mercy as your Savior. We will all appear at the judgement seat of Christ where He sits on the throne of God.
Try reading my previous post again...God is just to forgive all who believe on Jesus, He is just to receive them in eternal life as He paid the price to do so by His own blood when He took our death on Himself.........the faith of God in Jesus Christ is the only soundly logical explanation of how justice and mercy can be reconciled, and righteousness and peace are kindred.
I owe the debt to the One who gave me every moment of time in which I exist. It was not given to me to do wrong but I have done wrong and I owe for what I have done. What I have done is done forever and forever I owe for what I have done....that is justice.
Because God loves mankind, He took on Himself the form of a man and died for our sins, He paid in full what I can never pay. He had no sin of His own, so His death was full payment for my sins and yours if you will believe and receive Him as your Savior. If you will not, the blood which He gave which would have been the cover for your sins will be the blood that cries out against you for vengence. God is giving you mercy by giving you time for which you owe Him, time which you do not deserve, desiring that you reason with Him and come into agreement with Him so that He can pardon you based on the fact that He paid your price in full so you don't have to be paying forever what you can never pay off.
God wants you to have more than mercy, He wants you to have full pardon; to be forgiven and set free from the curse of sin and death. He will make you a new creation if you will repent of all your sin and believe from your heart that God has raised Jesus from the dead and ask Him to be your Savior...receive Him by faith and He will come into you and give you a new heart which delights to honor Him and which turns away from sin.
If your dept is owed to God, and God paid the debt to himself, then God has gained nothing from the payment. Nothing has been paid as nothing has been gained by the one to whom you owe. A deficit remains. God is unjust.
You said this life is not given to do wrong, and yet you say that one one can do otherwise.
The debt was paid on your behalf but you are saying it was not for you, it was no good, not good enough for you so you have to pay yourself and you can never pay off your debt. God is just to leave you in Hell paying forever since you refuse the gift of His payment for you. You are getting what you want, your own way and God is giving it to you because He is good and will give you the desire of your heart.
God needs no gain. He proved by what He did that He is justified to forgive you if you will admit that you are the one who deserves to die, believe He died in your place to pay the price you owe and can never pay off, and ask God the Father in the name of God the Son who died for you and conquered death to forgive you and invite Him into you are your Savior.
He is indeed justified to leave you burning in Hell if you insist that Him dying for you was not good for you. He paid with His life's blood, He gave His life for you and you think that was nothing? And you think that with your attitude toward Him, He is supposed to look the other way and let you go free? You basically are trampling His blood under your feet, the blood which would cover your sins, while you spit in His face saying what He did is nothing to you.
It is you who is unjust, you are trying to deny God of what is rightfully His and that is all of creation. You are making a fatal mistake; opposing God is opposing your own life and saying God is unjust will not get you out of dying or keep you out of Hell. God does not need your approval to execute justice and it is being executed against you on death row. You are facing execution. You're making a mistake trying to prove that God is not better than you.
I intend no unkindness in the things I am telling you; I don't know how to make you see if you won't see for yourself that God loves you, is merciful in allowing you time, and is just in executing you if you will not repent and believe on His Son....and in His Son, He will be your Judge if not your Savior. I don't know how to say it in a way you can approve of if you will not admit that you deserve to die and burn in Hell forever as one who has sinned against God.
Christ died for my sins, He bought me with His blood. He gained my life forever, He gained my place in Heaven with Him forever....He gave me eternal life. He has indeed gained from what was lost to sin....that is me.
In your case, He has lost you to sin and gained nothing by dying for you except that He proved He has the right to abandon you in death in Hell, as you have abandoned Him.
That is not the way He wants it, He wants you to believe, to trust Him, to have your sin covered by His blood and to live forever with Him in Heaven. He made the way for you to have eternal life. He paid the price but you think you can pay for and by yourself I guess so that is what you will do in Hell if you keep insisting you can and will go your own way.
You are trying to twist things around as if you can win against God and you are losing everything in death. If you really believe you are winning, you are fooling yourself and I'm wasting my time with you....to me that is sad, I'll just have to turn and walk away and leave you behind.
The above represents your loss of this argument and every argument on this site. I and others here appeal to reason. You appeal to faith. We attempt to provide good cause for others to accept our position. You request agreement without good cause. Such is the nature of faith. You make claims, and when challenged, you pretend earnestness in the saving of souls. On not so rare occasions you display glee at the supposed eternal suffering of your fellow men. It's disgusting. I'm glad to choose reason over irrational faith. Given I am created to be the reasoning creature, you will one day find that I have been the man of God all along. And you have been the opposite.
I am not making an argument, I am simply stating facts. It is you who is trying to make an argument against God being good, and you are lost. There is no argument against the Lord, you are fooling yourself if you think you can show that you are are good or better than God who created you in His own image.
You are not appealing to reason, you are starting with a presupposition against God's goodness and you are not being reasonable. I do not request your agreement, I advise that you agree with God as to His right to dispose of you at any moment in any way He sees fit. Then you will begin to fear God and that is the beginning of wisdom. The wisdom you think you possess is devilish, self-glorifying, attempting to replace God with your own imagination. You are fooling yourself into believing that you are justified to exist outside of Hell when common sense should tell you that you cannot justify your life here or anywhere else and that is why you are losing it.
You, a man of God? Hahahahah...you deny His Son, you hate Him....you reject the Son, you reject the Father, and you choose death hoping to be exonerated by it and exempt from Hell. No man of God would ever try to frame an argument in a way to accuse God of being anything but good. Whatever it is that you call "God" and claim to be a man of, it is not God who created all things and who created mankind in His own image......and gave Himself for them as a ransom for their souls. You are paying your own price, that's your choice and you will never pay it off. You're a slave of sin and it's taking you in it's chains to the fire of Hell.
What you think is my glee when I tell a sinner like you that you are on your way to Hell is actually my joy in knowing i am saved from Hell. God nor myself has any pleasure in the death of the wicked (that would be you who is against Him). I'm trying to warn you, trying to wake you up...if you won't hear God's call for you to be saved and trust in the Savior, you will wake up in Hell. You and Spartacus.
You have sinned against God, you deserve to die and burn in Hell but God wants you to be saved so He is giving you time outside of Hell desiring that you reason with Him, admit your predicament and guilt, believe He died for you so that His wrath against your sin is satisfied in His Son who could not be held in the ground by death......and in repentance of your sin, believing on the resurrected Savior, ask God in Jesus name to save you and you will be saved, forgiven; justified by Him who died in your place for your sins and rose from the dead. Your trying to go your own way in your pride and you are an affront to God. You're losing everything while you try to win an argument. You're on your way to Hell, and if you think I am gleeful in telling you that, that's your problem and not mine. My glee is in knowing the truth, knowing that I am forgiven, and I am on the side for which the Victor has already won....and you are on the losing side trying to justify yourself which is a nonsensical proposition.
I earnestly contend for the faith of God, and I earnestly contend for your soul...though my contending does no good for you when you are fighting against the Savior. You're drowning in a sea of sin fighting against the only One who can pull you out of it...His name is Jesus, The Lord God Almighty. I can't save you, but maybe I can convince you that you need to be saved so you will start to fear God and desire to be sure of His forgiveness....and if you think you don't need God's forgiveness and will never change your mind, you have willfully warped your mind beyond repair and you are going to wake up in the fire of Hell haunted by how many times I tried to tell you of the Savior who died for you to save you from that fire.
You are supposing that you have the right to exist outside of the fire of Hell.....a foolish supposition when dying should tell you that you have no rights at all. No fear of God, corrupt to the core.....and you hate me for telling you the truth; you hate me because you can't stop the truth from being told.
You are opposing your own life......you are clinging to your own death. You are going against yourself...your arguments backfire in your face and you are closing your eyes telling yourself that the fire can't hurt you. You need to wake up and fear God and get saved before you wake up in Hell cursing God and yourself for refusing to hear Him calling for you to be saved.
This last post of yours represents you giving up in your argument and turning to insults void of intellect. I'm disappointed, but not surprised....for a little while I thought you were actually listening but obviously you are not.
I've not meant to be insulting. I'm merely pointing out that your position relies on faith rather than reason. It's only an insult if you uphold reason over faith. This is a debate site; more weight is given to reason than to faith.
When I disagree with you, it is not the same as disagreeing with God. I usually disagree with you. I never disagree with God. If you confuse the difference, it is not at my peril.
It is your position which relies on faith without reason. The only reason on which you base your faith is a fallacy....believing you are justified by your own existence and need no forgiveness from God. You are unreasonable, fooling yourself into thinking that death exonerates you and you are exempt from eternal dying in the fire of Hell.
You are dying now, losing all of your rights, losing everything. Doesn't that tell you anything? You are unrighteous......can't justify yourself to live or you would not be dying...and you are reasonable? You are talking insanely....out of touch with reality. God loves you and wants you to agree with Him regarding His right to punish you for your sins, He wants you to admit you are a sinner who is an afront to Him, He wants you to seek His mercy, He wants you to believe Jesus is God incarnate who died for you so that you don't have to die forever, so that you can be set free, pardoned, redeemed from death, bought and paid for by His sinless blood which will either cover your sins or will testify against you as you continue to trample His innocent blood under your dirty feet all the way to Hell. You need to think about the choice you are making......your pride is taking you to Hell and I really don't like watching you go.
You fell back on your predetermined response to all opposition. In this case it fits like a square peg in a round hole. I am not attempting to justify life outside hell. I am saying that if hell is what I deserve, then justice demands that hell is what I will get. It's almost a tautology. And if hell is what you deserve, and you are fond of saying it is, then you'll be there to.
Justice demands that people get what they deserve. Be it punishment or reward. Punishment in hell is all you claim to merit.
It became clear that you are not listening. When a person is drowning and fighting against being saved, it's no good to dive in with them. All you can do is throw them a life preserver and yell at them, try to get them to use it.
Sometimes there is nothing to discuss; all I can do is tell you that you are dying as you deserve, and will be in Hell where you deserve to be if you don't get saved from it.....and then leave you with the life preserver I have tossed in your direction and hope you come to your senses and realize only God the Savior can get you out of your dying.
Of course not. You deserve to die the same as me. We are sinners. We have sinned against God and deserve His punishment. He does not want to give us that punishment, He wants us to be forgiven and He made the way for Himself to be just in forgiving sinners who honestly ask Him for mercy....while He remains just for keeping sinners in eternal dying if they will not repent of their sins and believe on His Son who He gave as the propitiation for their sins to make atonement for their souls so they can be reconciled to God.
We get what we deserve except that we are pardoned by God. Justice is satisfied on our behalf by the One who died in our place and took our full punishment on Himself. He had no sins of His own, He died for our sins and rose from the dead so that He can forgive us of all our sins. If you will believe on Him, then your sins remain buried where He left death behind and you will be forgiven of all your sins and have eternal life...and one day you will be with Him and like Him with your sin-corrupt body restored to the ever-living body God intended for you to have when you were created in Adam before sin messed it up.
If you deserved to be saved, then God would owe it to you. God owes you nothing. He gives everything. You can have everything good beyond anything you can imagine forever if you will only believe...and if you really believe, you will turn against your own sin and desire to live righteously. For most people, that means they will stop indulging in sexual perversions and desire to be clean in mind and body....and if married, to be faithful in mind and body to their spouse and if not married, to be faithful in mind and body to God.
I knew the moment I first believed that I could no longer seek sexual indulgences outside of marriage and it was likely to be a long time before I was ready to marry somebody good enough for me to make a lifelong commitment...I turned against and away from my sin and I turned toward God knowing Jesus had saved me and given me His Spirit by which He lives in me and is my life....I have eternal life now and forever, only the sting of the consequences of sin remain in my body but that will be past soon as death's sting will not endure and the grave has no victory over me.
Throughout the centuries, people who know as I know have willingly accepted torture and death rather than to deny the One who died for them to save them from Hell. Look how people try to torture me here with profanity, vulgarity, insults, wishes for me to die and/or burn in Hell and not rarely I get serious threats of bodily harm. What are they going to do, send me to Heaven to be with my Savior? I'm going to keep on telling as many people as I can that God loves them and gave His Son to be the propitiation for their sins so they can be forgiven by Him and saved from the fire of Hell!
You're saying that we all deserve to burn in hell and no one deserves to be saved. That settles it. If God is Just, I will see you in hell and we will both burn like eternal sausages. See you there little sizzler.
God is indeed just, and He is justified to forgive those who believe on His Son while condemning those who insist His blood was nothing for them. You trample His blood under your feet stomping around in your sin, His blood covers my sin as I have admitted I need that covering......He bought me back from the curse of sin and death, my sins are forgiven by Him who conquered death, I'm on my way to Heaven. As you stand now, proud in your sin, insisting God must put you in Hell and leave you there forever, you will not be saved and that is your choice. You need to rethink what you are doing, you are going against yourself, losing your argument against God. You seem totally closed to reasoning, completely obsessed with demanding justice against yourself from God and sooner or later He will meet your demand if you will not believe He can and will forgive you based on what His Son did for you. You don't want God's mercy, you want God's justice and if you really want it God certainly will give it to you. It's time for me to move on.
Yes justice demands that Hell is where you be confined, where fire deprives you of anything good which God allowed you in your time here under His mercy. You can know His mercy now, which rejoices against truth; truth being that you deserve to fry in Hell while mercy lovingly gives you relief from it.
God executed judgement on Himself, conquered death, and as He lives, you too can live with Him forever. He is risen from the dead after dying for your sins, and is willing and able to pull you out of dying and give you eternal life if you will believe on Him and receive Him by faith as your Savior. God the Creator became God the Savior to buy back His rebel creatures from the curse of sin and death which they incurred on themselves by breaking His law of life.
Eternal life is not a reward you can earn; it is a gift from God you must receive or you will never have. If you could do good enough to earn eternal life, you would not be dying. You need new life from God, and that life is in His Son who will dwell in you by His Spirit and your heart will be His throne IF you will believe on Him...He will be in you a well of water springing up to eternal life and your thirst will be quenched. These are promises of God. How can you receive the promises of God if you will not believe He is willing and able to give and keep them?
Look what you are doing...you are saying "if I deserve to be in Hell, I will be there", and you are trying to convince me that I will be there with you. Do you want me to be in Hell with you? I know I am going to Heaven and I want you to be there with Jesus and me and all the other saints who will be there and who are there now. You can be one of those saints, you can be like Jesus IF you receive of His Spirit which cannot come into you if you will not agree with Him regarding His right to rule over and against you and IF you will not believe His desire for you to have His mercy and pardon forever.
You are indeed trying to justify your own life...even in the fire of Hell you are trying to justify your existence...that is not the way you want your existence to be justified. You want mercy, nobody wants to fry in Hell like an eternal sausage. God wants you to have His mercy forever and you are saying you either do not want it or cannot have it....or you must have it your own way which is an affront to God who loves you and gave Himself for you as the ransom for your soul.
I'm giving you all the answers to your comments...if you will read more slowly and thoughtfully instead of getting hung up on a little point which you twist into futility against your own life...you can't win arguing against God, you can only heap up more of His wrath against you. He wants you to know His forgiveness but you keep insisting you don't want it or need it and you call Him unjust for executing you? You are totally against Him and He is supposed to let you go free?
Dead man walking...............
You're not listening and I don't want to waste too much time trying to get you to be reasonable. I think we should end this for now. Hopefully you are searching for the truth but it's hard to tell.
Try to understand how Justice can be satisfied by God so that He remains just to forgive those who agree to His terms and to condemn those who insist they are justified without God to exist outside of Hell.
You are one of the few here who has earned a little respect from me because I know you have listened....and now you show you are still seeking veracity of truth to stand on and I wholeheartedly hope you find it......
I've carefully directed many posts and responses directly for you because I care about you and I want you to go to Heaven. There's only one way, and that is the way God made for you. you're trying to go a way that is against Him, a way that is in defiance of Him...a way in which you think God owes you something when He owes you nothing, never has, and never will. If your just going to sum up my efforts with a few insults, why don't you do us both a favor and quit reading my posts? It's not easy for me to stop trying to get you to see the Light of the world is Jesus. It's probably better for me to just leave you behind and set my bait in waters where the fish are more likely to bite.
