CreateDebate is a social debate community built around ideas, discussion and democracy.
If this is your first time checking out a debate, here are some quick tips to help get you started:
Arguments with the highest score are displayed first.
Argument replies (both in favor and in opposition) are displayed below the original argument.
To follow along, you may find it helpful to show and hide the replies displayed below each argument.
To vote for an argument, use these icons:
You have the power to cast exactly one vote (either up or down) for each argument.
Once you vote, the icon will become grayed out and the argument's score will change.
Yes, you can change your vote.
Debate scores, side scores and tag scores are automatically calculated by an algorithm that primarily takes argument scores into account.
All scores are updated in real-time.
To learn more about the CreateDebate scoring system, check out the FAQ.
When you are ready to voice your opinion, use the Add Argument button to create an argument.
If you would like to address an existing argument, use the Support and Dispute link within that argument to create a new reply.
Which martial art is the most effective for a real fight?
The first Martial skills I would recommend people to learn is Wrestling fundamentals. From there, submissions/Jiu-Jitsu ---> Boxing/Mua Thai ---> Taekwondo/Karate/"Traditional" Martial Arts ---> Krav Maga/"Real World" Scenario Defensive & Offensive Skills ---> Weapons; Single Stick & Double Stick Escrima, Knives, etc.
This is actually a trick question. One who relies on any of the martial arts you mentioned can be defeated by any of the others depending on their level of training and the circumstances of the fight. The best martial art is actually implementing a multitude of martial arts and using what techniques work the best in a particular situation or against a particular opponent. For instance you can't grapple if you are facing a fast boxer who can hit you 3 times and get out of range before you can grab him, so you would have to use tae kwon do or muay thai and hit him with the types of attacks he wasn't trained to deal with. And you can't use tae kwon do against a skilled grappler who keeps grabbing your leg and throwing you across the street, so you will have to implement a combination of ju jitsu, judo and aikido to counter his wrestling techniques.
Yes, what you say is true. One of the biggest weaknesses of any one individual martial art is that it does not inherently take into consideration attacks from opposing martial arts. For instance, a great boxer would still have no idea what to do if a person goes for a double leg takedown and then applies submission tactics on the ground. Likewise, a person who only does Jui Jitsu is completely unprepared for being cracked in the face when they try and roll. Etc. etc.
Then, to a person who has no martial skills whatsoever, before diving into any particular one and going "all in" on that, they should probably learn fundamental MMA skills basics, and then choose which one to focus in on from there, and then move on to more, and so on ad infinitum.
But, yeah, you're right. If a person spends years in a boxing gym and is intermediate to advanced level, they could still potentially get wasted easily in a "street fight" or mma match from a person who has a more balanced skill set, even if they had less skills in all/any one areas.
TKD doesn't need to take you to the ground, you will be knocked out in one or two well-executed kicks and knees. It doesn't matter how well you grapple, the true TKD master will grapple back and position you to take knees and kicks that they will do in split-second durations so you literally cannot react even if your mind perceives it coming.
MT is not about brutality, although it is probably the third most brutal one, TKD being second place (Karate is the most brutal of all the martial arts, in Karate the philosophy is to make your opponent take more damage than you, period). MT is about out-enduring the enemy more than any other martial art is. MT's core philosophy is 'if you are standing by the end and your opponent isn't, this was the optimal fight path that you took'. It's that simple. MT is not complex but it is not entirely offence as you've made it out to be.
Tae Kwon Do and Muay Thai are all you ever need. I have studied all martial arts in depth and can tell you that if you master these two, you will never ever be defeated in a hand-to-hand combat unless you're physically/mentally frail at the time.
I disagree, muay thai is all about striking so it is not well balanced, and tai kwon do is perhaps one of the worst martial arts in all actuality. It focuses way too heavily on kicks and as a trained martial artist who has fought in dozens of tournaments I can assure you that tai kwon do sucks. If you get in close or use grappling you can easily disable the fancy kicks they rely on so heavily.
They are two of the most brutal martial arts and yes they are aggro-prone as opposed to defensive prone. You need a lot of dietary adjustments and physical habits to truly master them as they require specific muscles to be at certain strengths to pull off some of their moves but they are NOT AT ALL inferior to other martial arts.
You know very little about Muay Thai if you think it's about 'hitting first'. They specialise in grappling FIRST, Elbowing SECOND, dodging THIRD and kneeing FOURTH. The way Muay Thai works mechanically is so unlike other martial arts that even top tier black belters of other martial arts can be confused with how to handle a Muay Thai expert. Many people train to cope with punches and kicks but elbowing, kneeing and grappling are the three least well-understood fighting formats and this is why Muay Thai is so undeniably insane in its effectiveness against any average fighter out there.
Tae Kwon Doe is not at all a case of 'kick the other guy fast and pray to god they don't know how to handle it'. A true tae kwon do master is actually capable of doing a 75% kick, stopping EXACTLY when the other person is going to flinch/defend and then kicking another way while they block that kick using the 25% remaining time to makethem react even slower to the real, planned attack. Tae Kwon Doe is the ONLY martial art that actively teaches you to bait wrong defence in the enemy and work around a skilled opponent. You mention in your other post that no martial art teaches you how to directly handle other ones, TKD is the only one that does. They teach you baiting, out-thinking and even how to anticipate the other guy baiting you and adapt to their moving style.
TKD is so hard to master that it would be safe to say that to get to the third highest tier (not just black belt but beyond that) in TKD is equal to the top tier of any other martial art in physical training and dietary discipline.
This is a KID who is BLACK BELT in TKD. LOOK HOW AGILE AND STRONG HE IS, there's no BS chakra etc there's pure training and difficulty in getting there.
NO CHILD PRODIGY OF ANOTHER MARTIAL ART IS THIS INSANE
they are NOT AT ALL inferior to other martial arts.
They are, because they focus too heavily on one type of skill set, especially tai kwon do. The most effective martial arts are balanced ones like kajukenbo, MMA and kung fu which have ways to deal with almost anything.
Many people train to cope with punches and kicks but elbowing, kneeing and grappling are the three least well-understood fighting formats and this is why Muay Thai is so undeniably insane in its effectiveness against any average fighter out there.
Muay thai is a very good martial art, unlike tai kwon do which is crap to put it bluntly. But it's not one of the best and only can be called "very good" because of the unorthodox elbow and knee strikes it implements. Also I don't think grappling is as central to muay thai as you think it is, it's much more about strikes and only uses basic grappling meant to be used in conjunction with strikes specifically.
Tae Kwon Doe is the ONLY martial art that actively teaches you to bait wrong defence in the enemy and work around a skilled opponent.
Absolutely incorrect, even boxers do this. They teach this in an abundance of martial arts.
TKD is the only one that does. They teach you baiting, out-thinking and even how to anticipate the other guy baiting you and adapt to their moving style.
In my experience this is false, tai kwon do is particularly weak against muay thai and grappling and even with karate you can beat it simply because karate makes better use of your whole body and gives you a wider spectrum of attacks.
NO CHILD PRODIGY OF ANOTHER MARTIAL ART IS THIS INSANE
All flash, little practicality. I've seen kids who could break him in half.
The most effective martial arts are balanced ones like kajukenbo, MMA and kung fu
The only one of those which is effective is MMA. Kung Fu? Wtf? You don't find kung fu specialists in the UFC for good reason. It's shit to win a fight with.
Kung Fu? Wtf? You don't find kung fu specialists in the UFC for good reason. It's shit to win a fight with.
This is what ignorant people often think when all they've ever seen is westernized non-lethal kung fu for normal people. Kung Fu is the most diverse martial art on the planet and a true master of kung fu would absolutely decimate any UFC fighter in a real fight. When you study all forms of kung fu rather than being a specialist you can counter almost anything and TRUE kung fu like that which you'd find in a shaolin temple uses special training techniques that can take you to borderline superhuman levels.
Kung fu is not balanced at all. Which form of kung fu is remotely balanced? Do you mean 'mastering all forms' of kung fu? This is discouraged in the kung fu community and seen as offensive to your Sifu, who will always specialise in one type.
Kung fu is actually more unbalanced to the arms than TKD is to legs. TKD trains you at stick-work as well as using arms to pull the other a certain way so that they move into your kick resulting in higher damage upon impact than if you kicked them standing still.
Do you mean 'mastering all forms' of kung fu? This is discouraged in the kung fu community and seen as offensive to your Sifu, who will always specialise in one type.
I am talking about kung fu in general yes, whether it's seen as disrespectful or not when you combine all forms of kung fu into one system it creates a fighting style of incredible diversity which is not strictly soft or focused on the arms.
He's 8. When he's grown up I literally dare you to go near him. The reason TKD is the single best one is that they train their legs entirely so that their means of damage is the same toned muscle and used body-part(s) as the weapon. If they aren't doing stick-form TKD and fighting bare-handed, they will be kicking you and landing 100% perfectly balanced as you are twisting left, right and centre to cope. Also, unlike a punch, a kick to the neck is much harder to prevent damaging the neck even if you put your palm in between etc. This is why the neck is a no-hit zone in MMA because it makes better martial arts better instead of equal. TKD is so brutal in dealing with under-handed tactics and brilliant at dealing them out.
Telling me that my best martial art (TKD) is weak against my second-best martial art (MT) is hilarious. MT counters all martial arts because it is a counter-style. It was invented to work extremely against the training methods of other martial arts as it optimises movements they don't train to battle against all that much.
TKD is the LEAST BAD martial art against Muay Thai. They are ALL BAD AGAINST Muay Thai. MT uses dirty tactics and does it brilliantly. One elbow from a Muay Thai master and you will break bones, same with TKD kick. They do it not with just power but speed.
At the medium level, Karate can beat TKD potentially as the mistakes the TKD person can make will be higher in percentage since it's a steeper learning curve. At the top level, a Karate Master will have their skull broken by the ankle of the TKD master in four minutes flat outside of a ring. In a ring TKD is rarely used because it really is that amazing it can kill in one move and is no joke so to avoid being sued for premeditated murder people stick to the other martial arts (if it's premeditated that your opponent died instead of accidentally killing them you can prosecute but I won't go into that).
In a real fight, biting and eye gouging as well as neck jabs are all allowed. This is something TKD and MT deal with brilliantly whereas other martial arts require rules to be effective.
In a real fight, biting and eye gouging as well as neck jabs are all allowed. This is something TKD and MT deal with brilliantly whereas other martial arts require rules to be effective.
I don't see how they deal with it, there are plenty of martial arts better suited for that sort of thing such as krav maga, kajukenbo and kung fu.
Krav is brilliant against an average fighter as it specialises in simplifying the equation in ones thinking process to reach the optimal move but against a good fighter, it's helpless as it is easy to exploit the shirt range grapple heavy style by many far-reaching blows. Also against other grapple style martial arts it's the worst at grappling itself out of them.
t's helpless as it is easy to exploit the shirt range grapple heavy style by many far-reaching blows. Also against other grapple style martial arts it's the worst at grappling itself out of them.
But unlike tai kwon do it actually contains grappling moves.
That's a total lie. There is grappling in TKD but it is entirely to move the victim's body in a direction to enable you to kick them by moving your leg the other way in the end.
Firstly Kung Fu is many martial arts. The thing that makes a subset of Kung Fu, Kung Fu is the focus on flawless arm-work and the idea that being well balanced matters less than forcing the opponent off-balance.
The problem is that it is very effective with rules in place but against an experienced fighter who is a hitman or something, you'll realise the problem with Kung Fu. It's terrible at training one to think fast instead of deep and also poor at training ones body to be tough as opposed to supple.
If you want a feminine body to not look masculine despite being black belt, then Kung Fu is the best just after Tai chi.
Kung Fu is the focus on flawless arm-work and the idea that being well balanced matters less than forcing the opponent off-balance.
It depends what subset of kung fu you focus on, kung fu is most effective when you implement all of it's forms.
The problem is that it is very effective with rules in place but against an experienced fighter who is a hitman or something, you'll realise the problem with Kung Fu. It's terrible at training one to think fast instead of deep and also poor at training ones body to be tough as opposed to supple.
You seem to be conflating a particular type of kung fu with all kung fu, kung fu is perhaps the most diverse martial art on the planet. There are hard forms as well as soft forms.
tai kwon do is perhaps one of the worst martial arts in all actuality. It focuses way too heavily on kicks and as a trained martial artist who has fought in dozens of tournaments I can assure you that tai kwon do sucks. If you get in close or use grappling you can easily disable the fancy kicks they rely on so heavily.
Yes--Tai Kwon do is I think by far the coolest looking/flashiest martial art, however is extremely limited in real world implementation and would in fact leave someone very vulnerable if they went for a 540 kick, etc. This is why it is often one of the main arts used in movies, though you very rarely see it in the cage.
Still great to know though--both for the skills themselves as well as balance, control, efficiency of legs, light on your feet, etc. etc., all of which will transfer with you. Also, Martial Arts tricking is very cool in its own right.
I'm a die-hard undisputed 2, 3 and 4 fan and his other movies are just as brilliant action-wise.
Idk the ginger guy but I don't doubt he's impeccable. TKD and Muay Thai are the only two martial arts where if you are good, you're definitely amazing.
Yuri Boyka is a personal favorite character of mine--I have actually posted tribute videos to Boyka on CD before when discussing movie martial arts. I like Michael Jai White as well. GNT is very good, he hosts a YouTube channel you would likely enjoy.
Muay Thai is an essential martial art, and certainly is a foundational skillset for fighting.
Unlike you, I see arm-heavy martial arts as show-only in worth. The leg-heavy ones will always benefit. Is an unarmed soldier going to punch you or kick you to death? If they punch you, they are probably CPL or lower.
Did you read my original post? I did not say boxing is #1, in fact, I recommend grappling and submissions first. Then, kicks, knees, elbows, punches, blocks/defense. Most people who watch don't realize that although the punch can be very effective, it is also an extremely vulnerable move because it is not difficult to break you hand/wrist compared to other strikes. If one gets into a fight with no pads, throws a punch that lands bad on the first strike, they are liable to break their hand--and then they are pretty screwed.
This is entirely true. This is why TKD and MT are undeniably so far ahead of the others in non-pad combat scenarios. They train your body to utilize natural weapon-styled body parts.
The ankle and foot in general are designed to hold the entire body's weight so very clearly they are a brutal instrument. Kneeing is heavily involved (at least the movement of kneeing) in both MT and TKD and this is a great weapon in a fight. The elbow is extremely difficult to learn to always angle so you don't hit the 'funny bone' nerve but once you've mastered it, you will break entire rib cages with one, well-executed elbow in a real life situation.
Muay Thai is no joke and TKD is far from the flashy-for-the-sake-of-it martial are you make out. It's flashy because it's damn good. There is no other martial art that TKD that teaches SO MANY WAYS FOR you to kill in one move (a kick). It is a deadly, no-joke martial art and the entire South Korean police force is forced to learn it and have defeated many trained hitmen in their time combating crime;.