CreateDebate


Debate Info

14
10
Georgia Russia
Debate Score:24
Arguments:11
Total Votes:35
More Stats

Argument Ratio

side graph
 
 Georgia (5)
 
 Russia (6)

Debate Creator

ta9798(316) pic



Who is at fault Georgia or Russia?

It started August 7th 2008

In the recent conflict in south Ossetia and other parts of Georgia who is responsible for the initiation of the conflict?

Who or are both responsible for the continuation of the conflict up to the point of the Russian halt?

Georgia

Side Score: 14
VS.

Russia

Side Score: 10
5 points

After hearing on the news about the growing conflict between Georgia, south Ossetia and Russia i knew there had to be more information on it. The bias was unabashed and unmistakable, the us news media failed the American citizen yet again. while it is commonly portrayed if not explicitly declared that the Russians are at fault and the aggressors of this conflict remember that it is the Georgians who made the first full attack shortly after they initiated a cease-fire agreement. Maybe Russian shouldn't have gotten involved but with 1000+ south Ossetia citizens killed, many Russians as well as a a few Russian peace keepers and Russia did say it would protect Russians in such regions. I am used to anti-Russian bias, i live in America, but this seems extreme, maybe i wasn't paying attention but every major US news media and papers seems to omit the fact that Georgia started it and that the Russians are just retaliating for their own loss as well as probably political goals(like EVERY nation does).

While it is probable that both are nearly equal in responsibility for the continued and escalation of the war to this point i think that is slightly more responsible. the initial use of artillery and aircraft to attack an area it claims and most western nations claim to be Georgian could be considered a government supported massacre of its citizens. also the people of south Ossetia have been asking for an independent state for a long time, the precedent of Kosovo and its acceptance by the western world on their mind.

Georgia is allied with America and Israel, and has received training and equipment from them for the last few years. also Georgia provides an alternate oil pipeline to the western nations, bypassing Russia and Iran. Maybe this is why the Western media is so much more bias now, aside from the fact that Russia is always evil and really still communist, and far more imperial than the US.

If you have just been listening to the news media than this might give you another view of the matter, primarily not exclusively pro-Georgian.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid;=9771

also

http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/08/georgia-on-our-mind/

Side: Georgia with Western support
5 points

Georgia, and by extension the U.S., are at fault in the Russo-Georgian War. The Bush Administration has been pursuing a policy of offering NATO membership to former Soviet republics and Warsaw Pacts members, a direct violation of an agreement between the former Soviet Union and Presidents George H.W. Bush and Clinton. That agreement, in return for the withdrawal of Soviet troops from Eastern Europe, promised that former Warsaw Pact countries and Soviet republic would not be offered NATO membership. This agreement has been blatantly ignored by the U.S., and Georgia has flaunted its desire to join NATO in Russia's face, a country that it shares a long border with. Also, American military "advisors" are in Georgia, training its troops.

Georgia also sent military forces into South Ossetia that confronted Russian forces, causing a natural reaction from Russia. Yes, there is a huge anti- Russian bias in the United States. If Russia had troops in Mexico and tried to turn it into an anti-American state, there would be loud screaming in America.

Supporting Evidence: NATO Membership Can Be Dangerous (www.usnews.com)
Side: Put The Shoe On The Other Foot
1 point

I AM NOT BELIEVING THE IDIOTS WHO THINK RUSSIA IS TO BLAME THE GEORGIANS ARE EVIL TRAITORS

Side: Georgia
1 point

Come on historically if some thing has happened in eastern Europe whos fault has it almost always been.

Side: russia
obama12(5) Disputed
1 point

ummmmmmmmm..................... FUCKING NATO THOSE BASTARDS MUST ROT IN HELL, most people would say no offence i say, OFEENCE HOPEFULLY IS TAKEN

Side: Georgia
0 points

In this debate there are very complex arguments and maybe the most complex of all arguments, Whom is Right and who is Wrong...

I think the spectator has to look at what they believe in.

OK Democracy, This means people power (demos cratis) the people of south ofsetia want a republic and had a (sorta democratic vote) they should not have to be Georgian any more. Long ago the Georgia should have devolved some power to eases tensions. (i do not believe that € of the population just randomly found passports in there pockets...)

Sovereignty Human rights and War laws. - Russia fails for all the reasons you already know. And more on human rights because of the huge abuse in Russia (Go Amnesty)

Russian in the wrong all together though, invading = BAD

interesting the Russian Claims about genocide however I do not believe the Russian propaganda machine.

(sorry if I miss spelled anything or if the gamer is awful, but really I do not care I type how I talk.)

Side: Russia
0 points

I was at a discussion group with four Georgians. All were from the Separatist regions.

Before: Georgia aspired to NATO membership to protect itself from Russia's sphere of influence. NATO insists that Georgia be whole and stable before membership is accepted. Russia sends guest worker visas to citizens of Abkhazia and South Ossetia-- they technically give the holders Russian citizenship.

Soon, Russian troops come to occupy the area (This is before the recent "Incident"), taking away Georgian passports and effectively making residents into Russian citizens only. The Russian military presence is notorious for abusing the natives; same old raping and looting story. The troops are put there because of "Separatist" ambitions in the two regions, and heavy concentrations of Russian Citizens. Ethnic Georgians are driven from the area or killed [REFER TO LINK], and puppet representatives are installed. The regions cite Russian citizenship and low ethnic Georgian population as reasons for secession.

Now: The CIA has been sending shipments of weapons to Georgians, attempting to incite a military confrontation. Georgians still live in the two regions, and are being treated worse than ever. If Abkhazia and South Ossetia are allowed to secede, they will be annexed by Russia. There is a military naval buildup in the Black Sea, in violation by NATO of the Second London Naval Treaty.

If you think the Cold War is over, you are sorely mistaken ;)

Supporting Evidence: Abkhazia Demographics: Georgians expelled (en.wikipedia.org)
Side: russia
-2 points
1 point

South Ossetia was full of Russian citizens who didn't want to be part of Georgia. The Georgian president was basically trying to ethnically cleanse the area so it could made permanent Georgian territory. How much like the revcolutionary war does that sound like now??

Side: Georgia
ThePyg(6743) Disputed
1 point

you know how many loyalists opposed the war?

Side: Russia
HGrey87(750) Disputed
1 point

The Russian citizens were moved there as a form of aggressive settling.

Side: russia