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402
621

John McCain


Barack Obama

Debate Score:1023
Arguments:179
Total Votes:1627
Ended:11/04/08
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John McCain
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Barack Obama
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This debate has ended. You can no longer add arguments or vote in this debate.

Who is going to be the next President of the United States?

And then there were two....


John McCain

Side Score: 402
VS.


Barack Obama

Side Score: 621
Winning Side!
11 points

I actually don't think we can decide this until they choose their running mates. That will determine the race, hands down. However, as much as I think we need a change in the White House, I think that McCain is liberal enough of a Republican to be elected. Obama is too polarizing and too liberal for the majority of the country. McCain is much more of a uniting figure in terms of policy and political stance. I guess I choose McCain as well since I am terrified of the depression this country will be headed into if Obama is elected and taxes us all to death.

| Side:
John McCain
jessald(1906) Disputed
8 points

Obama's not stupid. He's not going to "tax us all to death." He's pledged not to raise taxes for anyone earning less than $200,000 a year. He's further pledged to cut taxes for people making less than $75,000 a year.

---------------

From the Democratic Debate in Philadelphia (4/16/08):

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: Can you make an absolute, read-my-lips pledge that there will be no tax increases of any kind for anyone earning under $200,000 a year?

...

SENATOR OBAMA: Well, I not only have pledged not to raise their taxes, I've been the first candidate in this race to specifically say I would cut their taxes.

And one of the centerpieces of my economic plan would be to say that we are going to offset the payroll tax, the most regressive of our taxes, so that families who are earning -- who are middle-income individuals making $75,000 a year or less, that they would get a tax break so that families would see up to a thousand dollars worth of relief.

Senior citizens who have earnings of less than $50,000 wouldn't have to pay income tax on their Social Security. And middle-class homeowners who currently don't itemize on their tax filings, they would be able to get a deduction the same way that wealthy individuals do.

Now, here's the reason why that's important. We have seen wages and incomes flat or declining at a time when costs have gone up. And one of the things that we've learned from George Bush's economic policies, which John McCain now wants to follow, is that pain trickles up. And so, partly because people have been strapped and have had a tough time making ends meet, we're now seeing a deteriorating housing market.

That's also as a consequence of the lack of oversight and regulation of these banks and financial institutions that gave loans that they shouldn't have. And part of it has to do with the fact that you had $185 million by mortgage lenders spent on lobbyists and special interests who were writing these laws.

So the rules in Washington -- the tax code has been written on behalf of the well connected. Our trade laws have -- same thing has happened. And part of how we're going to be able to deliver on middle-class tax relief is to change how business is done in Washington. And that's been a central focus of our campaign.

...

MR. GIBSON: You have however said you would favor an increase in the capital gains tax. As a matter of fact, you said on CNBC, and I quote, "I certainly would not go above what existed under Bill Clinton, which was 28 percent."

It's now 15 percent. That's almost a doubling if you went to 28 percent. But actually Bill Clinton in 1997 signed legislation that dropped the capital gains tax to 20 percent.

...

SENATOR OBAMA: Well, Charlie, what I've said is that I would look at raising the capital gains tax for purposes of fairness. We saw an article today which showed that the top 50 hedge fund managers made $29 billion last year -- $29 billion for 50 individuals. And part of what has happened is that those who are able to work the stock market and amass huge fortunes on capital gains are paying a lower tax rate than their secretaries. That's not fair.

And what I want is not oppressive taxation. I want businesses to thrive and I want people to be rewarded for their success. But what I also want to make sure is that our tax system is fair and that we are able to finance health care for Americans who currently don't have it and that we're able to invest in our infrastructure and invest in our schools.

And you can't do that for free, and you can't take out a credit card from the Bank of China in the name of our children and our grandchildren and then say that you're cutting taxes, which is essentially what John McCain has been talking about. And that is irresponsible.

You know, I believe in the principle that you pay as you go, and you don't propose tax cuts unless you are closing other tax breaks for individuals. And you don't increase spending unless you're eliminating some spending or you're finding some new revenue. That's how we got an additional $4 trillion worth of debt under George Bush. That is helping to undermine our economy, and it's going to change when I'm president of the United States.

| Side:
Barack Obama
kiantakey(2) Disputed
2 points

When you look at the break down of tax cuts, Americans that make less than $200k don't have to pay as much as those that make more than $200k. Doesn't that make more sense? Why should the person making the most pay the least?

| Side: Barack Obama
9 points

McCain is definitely going to be the next President. The bottom line is that Obama is too liberal and too polarizing of a figure to have a real shot at becoming the next President. While the younger generation (myself included) will push for Obama and most of what you read on the Internet will support Obama, I don't think there's any way he's going to get elected. Check out his voting record, there's no way that "Middle America" (who essentially decide the election) is going to go for him.

| Side:
John McCain
neelanqj(52) Disputed
10 points
| Side:
Barack Obama
4 points

mmm, but then Bush got in a second term.... so maybe people dont care? And really, alot of that video is edited to the point that it seems incontextual, so yeah. Susity much.

| Side:
John McCain
jessald(1906) Disputed
9 points

Ordinarily I would agree, but the circumstances of this election are not normal. Iraq and the struggling economy have left people hungry for the change Obama represents. McCain is not going to be able to avoid being tied to Bush's failures.

| Side:
Barack Obama
jwitter(139) Disputed
5 points

I find it interesting that what you list as weaknesses I would tally as advantages for McCain. (Currently) we can put Iraq in the plus column, showing that even though it was difficult, as long as you persevere, things can improve. Also, the economy is only bad if you just compare it to the previous highs of the unusual American prosperity. We are still well above average globally.

My own argument fails, however, because I don't think this will be an issues campaign, but one just about personalities...

| Side:
John McCain
9 points

McCain seems to be a bit senile already. The only way he could still get elected is, if people really like his running mate. Never did any VP have such a great chance to the office ;)

What is McCain talking about?

| Side:
Barack Obama
orle8050(15) Disputed
9 points

McCain voted 100% in 2008 with President Bush, 95% in 2007, and has an overall voting record with Bush of 90%. With President Bush approval rating in the toilet, I don't think many people would agree that Bush was right 90% of the time.

I think that might trump any "liberal" voting record the GOP tries to portray.

| Side:
Barack Obama
Sysiphuslove(23) Disputed
7 points

...what Middle America?

Middle America has now mostly become Foreclosed-Upon America.

| Side:
Barack Obama
splash448(1) Disputed
4 points

Interesting choice of words, there. You think Obama is too "liberal and polarizing"? What about the fact that a large part of his campaign is based on his strengths as a non-partisan politician (who also plans to have a cabinet made up of Republicans who oppose him, but, like Lincoln, invites that challenge because he thinks it will make him a better leader)? What about the fact that he has collaborated with many Republicans in Congress on bills, and that many Republicans and independents support him over McCain? I don't think you can attack Obama by calling him a lefty partisan politician.

| Side:
Barack Obama
8 points

I don't think that Obama can rally the Democratic party let alone the country behind him. On the other hand McCain has the full support of the Republican party and a sizable following even with moderates. Obama seems to think that the world is a Utopia where everyone is really nice at heart and all wars could be avoided if we just talked more. The world that Obama describes in his speeches is not the world that actually exists and this more than anything else is going to discourage many voters.

| Side:
John McCain
orle8050(15) Disputed
5 points

McCain does not have the full support of his party. True Conservatives hate him. He has been the nominee since March and 1 out of every 4 republicans since have voted for another republican canidate since McCain rapped up the nomination.

Even the last state to vote, South Dakota, 30% of Republicans voted for someone else or didn't even vote. Obama got more votes losing South Dakota than McCain did to win it. http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/state/#SD

Sad day for the GOP

| Side:
Barack Obama
5 points

McCain is going to be the next President. Although people will vehemently deny it in public, middle America still has ingrained racism that will prevent them from voting for an African-America President.

When it comes time to cast their ballot, they will be convinced by the Republican media machine that Obama is too liberal and too soft on terrorism, which combined with his being an African American will dissuade them from voting for him.

| Side:
John McCain
6 points

I think that this is true to a certain extent. I believe that McCain will be the next President and I am sure that there are some people that will vote for him out of racism towards Obama. This is very sad. The real reason that people should vote for him is that he has the experience to run a nation.

I like Barack Obama, and in a few more years I would probably vote for him. However, at this point in time I do not believe that he has the necessary experience to be President of the United States. He is a junior senator from Illinois. That is not enough experience!

| Side:
John McCain
5 points

The experience argument is a false argument. The only relevant experience anyone can actually agree on for President is if you were Vice President. Other than that, all bets are off. Woodrow Wilson was President of Princeton University before he became President of the United States. It's a specious argument that would be used no matter the amount of time any candidate has held an office as long as one has been there longer. It's the same specious crap when governors tell senators they would be better because they have relevant experience. Those who make this argument will never actually look at the other candidates accomplishments and merits to make valid points. They know the American public is too stupid to look for themselves and will gladly eat up that BS right? Time for a change.

| Side:
Barack Obama
Hairchrm(25) Disputed
4 points

There is much more than just experience in a presidential race. It is also about the views of the nation, in Obama is firmly placed in the minds of the American public.

For example, according to a BBC report published in January 2007 (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/23_01_07_us_poll.pdf), 57% of the US population disprove of the handling of the war in Iraq, with 40% strongly disproving. This is a major issue in this election, which Obama firmly voiced his view on.

Whether or not someone has experience should only be second to their views. If one does not support their candidate's views, why should they care how well they can get things done if they accomplish only bad things?

| Side:
Barack Obama
chica(26) Disputed
4 points

Racism is a two edged sword. People, please. If you didn't think about it before, now, after the ranting of the "Rev" Wright, you might want to rethink that "whites" are the only racist people in the US. Just because your great-great-granddaddy was a slave, so?? Remember they were freed, and much of American blood was shed over American soil for that fact. Instead of hating "whitey" they should start reading about Martin Luther King and start sharing his values and outlook for this country. Now there is a figure you never hear about anymore. And yet he did more for the black people of this country than any other man...

| Side:
Barack Obama
4 points

You seem to have a very selective memory on what MLK Jr. said. Either that or you just don't know. He said a lot more than "I have a dream..." and most of it was pretty fucking harsh and about Vietnam. The government was after his ass a lot even letting the FBI follow him and bug his phone and rooms. Thats how we know he screwed around on his wife so much. Not sayin the guy was evil, but the picture the national narrative has painted you is false. He was a real guy with real faults and sounded more like Jerimiah Wright than you want to believe. Please pick up a book or use "The Google" every once and a while.

| Side:
John McCain
Hairchrm(25) Disputed
3 points

And is there evidence of this racism? You can't just state that "middle America still has ingrained racism" without backing it up, that's a pretty big claim that involves a large amount of people. I would argue that this is absolutely false, at least without evidence.

| Side:
Barack Obama
philthmoor(16) Disputed
9 points

you cant be serious?? there isnt any traces of racism in this campaign correct?? have you seen the footage from west virginia and all the other cracker jack towns where the tobacco chewing shit kickin rednecks let their sentiments be heard?? yeah racism never existed and we all love each other?? wake up brother and be honest about this sad reality you people try to deny

| Side:
John McCain
sparsely(495) Disputed
3 points

You think the only reason people won't vote for Obama is because they're racist?

I guess it's a good campaign strategy for Obama though. I don't vote for someone because of their race, and I won't not vote for someone because of their race, sex, religion, or otherwise.

So who is the racist here?

(Posted by someone who is not voting for John McCain.)

| Side:
Barack Obama
4 points

I'm pretty sure (and hoping) McCain will be our next president. God help us all if Obama wins!

| Side:
John McCain
3 points

John Edwards lied about the cost of his haircuts. Fred Thompson lied about lobbying for a pro-choice outfit. John McCain insists that the U.S. was founded as a "Christian nation." Mitt Romney concocted the story about how his father marched with Martin Luther King Jr. And Rudy Giuliani is one-man fib machine -- everything from why he had to provide police protection for his then-mistress to the cure rates for prostate cancer in Britain. Yet it is something Barack Obama said that bothers me most of all because Obama is a new kind of politician. He is supposed to be coolly authentic.

What concerns me is the lie or fib or misstatement -- call it what you want -- that involves Obama's assertion that more young black males are in prison than in college. It is a shocking statistic -- and it is wrong. But when The Washington Post's lonesome but formidable truth squad, Michael Dobbs, brought this to the attention of the Obama campaign, he not only got the brush-off but the assertion was later repeated.

You can appreciate the usefulness of this false claim. It says something compelling about the plight of young, black males that is essentially true -- their condition amounts to a calamity and something has to be done. But this particular comparison is wrong, and Obama must know it by now. Ought to be true is not the same as true.

After all, it ought to be true that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction. It ought to be true that he had ties with Osama bin Laden. It ought to be true that aluminum tubes were intended for a nuclear weapons program and it ought to be true, really, that none of this mattered since what mattered most of all was a larger truth: Saddam had to go and the Middle East had to be urban renewed for the sake of democracy.

In a recent provocative essay for The New Republic's Web site, Princeton historian Sean Wilentz coined the phrase "the delusional style in American punditry." He applied it to Obama's fans in the American press. His argument is that certain journalists are so enthralled by the sheer Obamaness of Obama that they are willing to overlook everything they know about the fundamental value of experience.

In this regard, Wilentz cites a Boston Globe editorial that used Obama's memoir "Dreams From My Father" to extol Obama's real-life experiences. Wilentz is not persuaded. To him, the book is "not exactly a portrait of sterling honesty or authenticity."

I and others have written that Obama -- as he himself says in the introduction -- invented composite characters and altered chronology. But as The Chicago Tribune also reported, some of the events Obama passionately details seem not to have happened at all. Maybe his memory played tricks on him. Mine sure does.

But I am not running for president. And if I were, I'd pay particular attention to the truth -- to the nagging facts that sometimes get in the way of a good story. After all, it is not only Iraq that has been destroyed in the last several years -- so has whatever trust the American people still had in their government. I have been at this game a long time, but for sheer manipulation of the facts, for a fudging of the truth, for the occasional bald lie, the Bush administration takes the cake. Cheney and truth cannot be found in the same sentence.

So the cavalier dismissal of Dobbs, the Post's truth-hunter, is troubling. Since he writes that the Obama campaign would not comment, it is reasonable to assume that it doesn't give a damn -- that this is a little matter and the candidate is engaged in something grand. The phony statistic is, in its way, like a composite. There's a larger truth here, get it?

No. When John McCain sticks to his insistence that the Constitution established the United States as a "Christian nation," I don't like it, but I know McCain and I know his character. He has a record in public life going back, essentially, to 1967 when he was shot down over Vietnam and repeatedly tortured by his captors. Back in 2000, I might have gotten a bit "delusional" over him, but I had my reasons.

I am a bit enamored with Obama as well. But the man's public record is thin and the glow from him is distracting and my intuition tells me that sometimes intuition is no substitute for experience. So, I'll sit back and watch some more -- and wait to see if Obama or anyone in his campaign calls back Dobbs and corrects the record. "Facts are stubborn things," John Adams once said. So, to our regret, we keep learning the hard way.

Thats why McCain will win!

| Side:
John McCain
jasontama(13) Disputed
2 points

Excuse me!.....Hey you, LOSTMMA.....hello??? oh thank you .... finally you put down the TV remote.....thanks for listening.....

Get a hint, quit getting so caught up in the politics of OTHER people, and start getting INVOLVED......

You may now return to your television program, already in progress.

| Side:
Barack Obama
3 points

McCain. America is too stupid to realize how much of a danger he is. He almost failed University! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srbX26vp57c <- here he says it himself.

This is ridiculous.

| Side:
John McCain
3 points

Obama has youth and looks which the media loves, funny thing is that before TV most of our presidents we very ugly guys (please contest this i dare you). I think in the end most of us will end the popularity contest and agree Obama is a great guy but he's no president. I can see him having his own TV show when this is all over...maybe become a correspondent for some news channel or maybe even become John Stewart's new side kick. Whatever he does I am sure Chavez, Raul, and all their pals will have something new to tune in and tune out to.

| Side: Obama
3 points

Barack will win in the same way that Gore and Kerry won. The GOP will, again, employ their dirty tricks to disenfranchise millions of voters. As long as electronic voting machines are allowed to count American votes, there will be no fair elections. As long as the elections are run by Premier Election Soultions (formerly Diebold) and Election Systems & Software, two large donors to the GOP, McCain will win. Furthermore, he will run the country into even more debt, as well as Iranian, and possibly Russian, quagmires. His energy and tax plans are moronic, showing little fundamental comprehension of the economy or environment.

By all logic; Obama should win. The past two elections, democrats have actually won. They've had the most of the popular vote, yet have lost the election itself. What's more, Obama is NOT the most liberal senator; he is the senator most in line with the Democratic party. The anti-Obama campaign may be severe, but comparing it to Bush's swiftboating of Kerry in '04? It's a cake walk.

| Side: Politics
3 points

With each of the major tickets now having someone on it whose first term was set to expire in 2010, there's a distinct possibility that they could both lose to an independent ticket with a billionaire like Michael Bloomberg whatever role he would have on it. But between just McCain and Obama, I've been impressed at the Republicans' level of confidence and think they have done a great job of scrutinizing Obama that the mainstream media has neglected. History would tell us that Obama can't win with the electoral vote race now being this close at this point in time.

| Side:
John McCain
3 points

Sen. McCain is the leader that we need to bring us through the turbulent times ahead.

| Side: McCain support growing and growing
2 points

I think McCain will win - this race really comes down to demographics and the fact that anti-war candidates don't get elected

| Side:
John McCain
orle8050(15) Disputed
6 points

Anti-War candidates don't get elected if we were actually fight a war. Remember Bush said "Mission Accomplished" This an occupation to have force democracy in the Middle East because we want their oil.

And this supposed war most American are against it. And with most of the country saying that we are in wrong directions doesn't help the incumbent party.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/ other/direction_of_country-902.html

| Side:
Barack Obama
songwright(2) Disputed
2 points

Richard Nixon got elected as an anti-war candidate.

| Side: Barack Obama
2 points

Does anyone REALLY believe that the party of slavery and segregation, the party of the KKK and lynching, the party of black codes and Jim Crow, the party that fought every piece of civil rights legislation from 1865 through 1965 is going to be the first to put a black man in the White House? The Democrats still have a former KKK Exalted Cyclops sitting in the Senate. The highest position a black has ever achieved in a Democrat administration is commerce secretary, and Ron Brown didn't live to tell about it.

| Side:
John McCain
2 points

The Libs are trying to get McCain to bash Pres Bush. That would be a bad move on his

part. We solid supporters of Pres Bush would drop out & I think there are thousands

of us that KNOW history will prove him to be one of our best presidents. What has

Obama got to offer? RHETORIC! He could go to the middle to get elected, as Dems

do historically & then switch back to his real self- whatever that is. This frightens me

more than anything about this unknown.

| Side:
John McCain
2 points

Why are people so caught up in who is the next president. Here is a question....think mentally since you can't respond....pick one of the numbers, 3, 5, or 7........you most likely picked 3....its generally how it works....the reason you picked a number, is one, there are three numbers only, and i gave you the choices. This presidential election is nothing different....yes i know we had primaries, but did you pick who went to the primary? no.....did you pick who won the primary? maybe.....the point is.....if people do not get involved in their civic duty, it doesn't matter who is elected, it's still going to be a selection made for you........

Congress at 12% approval......the laughs on us.....they are still elected, and yet the approval of congress rarely tops 40%....seems americans need a change of venue, not just the leadership.

| Side: Politics
2 points

Mcain,

All i have to say is i'm republican.

And he was held hostage for 5 years thay were gona let him go but not his team and he said no now thats a REAL MAN!

| Side:
John McCain
2 points

Senator McCain now leads Barack Obama among independent voters, according to recent polls, making the presidential contest appear much closer. Independents, a volatile electoral group, may be reacting to McCain's strong statements supporting the country of Georgia after Russia' recent invasion. The Arizona senator has consistently lead Obama among voters on national security issues, and McCain is also taking advantage of Obama newness on the international stage, questioning Obama's fitness to lead the nation in dangerous times. Both candidates have strong support from their bases, with more Republicans now satisfied with McCain.

Supporting Evidence: McCain Gains Among Independents (www.politico.com)
| Side: McCain Closes The Gap
2 points

That's true. But I think that move was political. Then GW just gave $1 billion to Georgia, and Haiti is right here and the country is being blown away by hurricanes.

| Side: McCain Closes The Gap
2 points

After the Palin choice and the effect her speech had on the Republican contigency of the RNC, much less this nation, I'm not going to be surprised to see the McCain/Palin ticket come out on top in November.

I think it's perfectly valid, however, to wonder about the timing, the choice, and the nature of the VP pick on McCain's part as he's had ample time to gather a legitimate list of potential running mates as compared to his Democratic rival.

The question that plagues the ticket is the influence of Hillary Clinton on the Democratic Party over the course of their Primary against Obama. And, while we still have a good bit of time to figure out how Gov. Palin will eventually stack up in the national stage, I can't help but wonder what kind of trickery was involved in placing her name on the GOP ballot and if she would have been even considered had Clinton taken the Democratic nod.

This is, of course, all speculative thinking and such thinking never gets us anywhere productive.

No matter what the Obama campaign tries to say to the contrary, the McCain/Palin ticket is NOT a reprise of the Bush/Cheney ticket of '00 or '04 and now with a legitimate stereoid shot into the all hallowed women vote and (though I'm sure this one will wane once the debates begin) the "fiscal, true Reagan-conservative" vote, McCain has at least one ace in his deck against the popular orator and his "experienced" wingman.

| Side: New Republican Chance
2 points

Never underestimate the racism of the american public.

| Side: John McCain
2 points

McCain is up against incredibly steep odds. He is being falsely tagged with being an extension of Bush, never mind that his own party has reviled him at times for his maverick stands. He is a Republican trying to follow a Republican with historically bad approval ratings. He is a member ( as is his opponent) of a congress with even lower approval ratings than the president. His opponent is in lockstep with the most extreme members of his base while McCain is a pariah to his party's base. His mere "whiteness" would engender cries of racism against him even if he stood perfectly still and never said a word. The economy is working heavily against a vote for an incumbent party. The war was a steady force against him when it went badly but now that it is going well, it has become a non issue. The guy cant win. His party despises him and his opponents call him an extension of the last 8 years. He makes the right call on the surge and it is so successful, it removes his being right as an issue. AND YET . . . here he is virtually tied with Obama, the self anointed one. They guy who casts light on us. The chosen one. The guy who cant pull away from McCain with all of the problems with McCain. Despite the Germans and French causing rock star sensations at his mere appearance. Despite teens and college kids massing behind him. Despite his vast paypal millions. Despite a media actively in his corner. This could be an eve bigger upset than Appalachian State over Michigan. Bigger than Israel in '67 vs the whole rest of the middle east. The smart money is all on Obama. The dumb money is all on Obama. No one believes McCain can win. So why cant Obama put him away? The longer McCain hangs around, the longer Obama lets McCain drive the debate, the longer we all see Obama take various tries to get his response right . . . the better McCain's chances get.

| Side: John McCain
2 points

When Obama talks about change, what does he mean? We could vote for Fidel Castro and get change. We could vote for some Iranian Ayatollah and get change. Obama is black. That is a change to welcome. He is not named Bush which is something to be welcomed. He is a Dem instead of a Repub, which some consider a good thing tho I personally think it is just about alphabet since a Republican Congress most recently behaved like drunken Dem when it came to spending. So why is he REALLY different? As a street organizer, he worked in the single most corrupt city party organization in America. He joined a racist church because they put the most money on the streets so it was a smart career move. That is EXACTLY like a small town businessman joining the restricted country club because of the contacts he could make. No difference. Does he take unpopular stands at risk to his career? Well he was all for reforming election funding until it meant giving up his own personal advantage in this race. Did that show any selfless devotion to the people or to his principles? He did reach across party lines to push legislation reigning in proliferation of nukes and supporting rounding up missing nukes. That was real bold, it took real spine to push THAT project. I mean who in their right mind is AGAINST that?! Did that demonstrate any real backbone? Is he firm in his principles and can he articulate a new message as opposed to just preaching at us? Well when the Rev Wright videos first played it took his campaign three times to get their response right. When McCain named Palin, the Obama campaign had to remove the now famous mean spirited attack on her small town roots hours after it appeared in favor of a less snide response. When charges of sexism were levied against his campaign by Clinton supporters, it took three tries to get the response right. If he has core unshakable beliefs, why cant he ever get his response right the first time? I don't see how he is different from most politicians. Obviously being a Dem he is different from a Repub. Obviously his policies are a change from Bush policies. But is that really what is important? Change for change's sake? Or change that means something!

| Side: John McCain
2 points

My vote as a US citizen would be not to vote for either one !! I have not heard anything from either one that really has me convinced that they will be excepting this position as the USA President that says they are going to WORK FOR us. They economy is so bad right now and I feel that we need someone in office to not only straighten this mess up, but to protect and bring home our men at war. People are loosing everything they own right now and it does not really seem to a matter to someone that make big money and does not have any worries over such things as gas. I seen Hillary on the tv one day speaking at the gas pumps with a customer and she was asking him his thought and her preply was, She hand't had to worry about gas for she gets cheauffered. Now be for real this is a huge issue !! She wasn't AWARE ?? Nope these two are not for us at all. Obama, not so bad but still I do not feel he is for US.

| Side: John McCain
2 points

Connect the dots please:

Merrill Lynch $349,170

Citigroup Inc $287,801

Morgan Stanley $249,377

Wachovia Corp $147,456

Goldman Sachs $220,045

Lehman Brothers $115,707

Bear Stearns $108,000

JPMorgan Chase & Co $206,392

Bank of America $133,975

Credit Suisse Group $175,503

| Side: John McCain
1 point

I think John McCain will be the nest president. People tend to stick with what is comfortable to them, what they know and trust.

| Side:
John McCain
1 point

I dunno who's gonna win.

The guy with the most votes?

like i said, i don't know.

| Side:
John McCain
1 point

"John McCain Will End Policies That Contribute To Higher Transportation And Food Costs. Ethanol subsidies, tariff barriers and sugar quotas drive up food prices and hurt Americans. However, we cannot take the wrong direction and cut off trade for American goods."

The only ways to do this and Senator McCain will not even think about approaching these solutions: One) End burning certain foods for energy, it does not work. Two) End Federal subsidies, again, it does not work. Three) End our constant federal aid.

"John McCain Is Proposing A New "HOME Plan" To Provide Robust, Timely And Targeted Help To Those Hurt By The Housing Crisis. Under his HOME Plan, every deserving American family or homeowner will be afforded the opportunity to trade a burdensome mortgage for a manageable loan that reflects their home's market value."

As Senator Obama, Senator McCain believes the Federal Government has an obligation to enter the housing market and enforce code and bail out homeowners. That is far from the truth. At most, this should be left up to the States. Nevertheless, since the Fed became involved in the housing market, these foreclosures occurred. The Fed needs to stay out of the market.

| Side: John McCain
1 point

"John McCain Is Proposing A Student Loan Continuity Plan. Students face the possibility that the credit crunch will disrupt loans for the fall semester. John McCain calls on the federal government and the 50 governors to anticipate loan problems and expand the lender-of-last resort capabilities for each state's guarantee agency."

I have been discussing and researching this topic for several months now and the reason why tuition is expensive are for many reasons: We have a federal reserve. They print the money, devalue the currency and create the inflation tax. This, therefore, raises the prices. Obviously this would affect the cost of school. The Federal Government gives out student loans and the only way to give out those loans is to print the money and the schools get the big fat twenty thousand dollar check for a piece of paper at the end of four years.

To solve this problem you end the Federal Reserve, inflation would lower, and kids would not get any student loans and not be able to afford tuition. The post-secondary facilities would realize this and obviously lower the school fees. Students would get jobs and pay their way through school (as I do). Why should I pay for someone else’s tuition when I am paying for my own without the Government’s help or your hard earned money?

| Side: John McCain
1 point

To put it into context, Sen. McCain has often said, “we’re going to have more wars,” “I wish we had zero percent interest rates,” “bomb bomb bomb Iran” and countless other irrelevant and nonsensical drivel.

Not only is Sen. McCain not a true Republican but he is basically a Liberal Democrat in Republican clothing (which Republican isn’t nowadays?).

It is obvious throughout his “straight-talk” express that he is not even fit to be Senator. It is appalling that a man running for President of the United States thinks the President of Germany is Russian President Vladimir Putin or when being asked an Economics question by Dr. Ron Paul can not give a clear answer and instead giving an incoherent response.

Bomb Bomb Bomb Iran...Huh?

| Side: John McCain
1 point

Sen. McCain is a scary man who wants war with every nation on Earth. He wants to be in Iraq for 100 years, continue our imperialistic expansion empire and send our economy into debt by spending a trillion+ dollars a year foreign policy.

Another fantastic example showing Sen. McCain’s incompetence is through one of the Fox Debates. Dr. Ron Paul was giving an answer on the middle east and foreign policy and Sen. McCain gives a ripe with, “I don’t want to trade with them, all they want to trade are burqas…I don’t want to fly with them, they want one-way tickets.” This is the man that could be the 44th President of the United States of America?

It is leaders like these that have given, once a peaceful nation, the recognition of a country that has to go to war just to protect our insecurities.

An eloquent John McCain response

| Side: John McCain
1 point

Even though I'm not a supporter of either candidate, at least Senator John McCain tried to get legislation through to have some oversight on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

| Side: John McCain
1 point

jonh mccain is so not fit to become presdint of the usa if u wants to be he would lower gass prices for everyoneeven the middle class. jonh mccain kindda wats everything to stay the same but we need change lots of change that way im voting for Obama not john Mccain and plus who want a mane like that for presdient not so Go Obama boo McCain(ps.i noe john McCain is going to be presdient so wats the piont for this comment)

| Side: Obama
0 points

yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes

| Side:
John McCain
0 points

i really don't think americans are retarded enough to actually vote for obama... but then again, we ended up having to choose between bush and gore and then bush and kerry.

seriously, how the fuck can people be so moronic to come up with choices like that?

McCain is long past overdue. we should have had him after the first Bush (instead of clinton and his civilian bombing, nuclear secret selling ass).

i just miss the Huckabee/Colbert thing. that would have been awesome.

| Side:
John McCain
alex89(2) Disputed
1 point

americans are fucking retarded they made the mistake by voting for bush the second time. if you were educated enough to understand the economic disasters and depression and struggle this country is going threw we should have made the fucked up mistake by voting bush in for the second time. But the past is the past. This is the present and people seem to be making the same mistake by voting for McCain. That cok sucker is the same as bush. If you were a smart american you would vote for Obama...you should open up your eyes and see what other countries are saying about us..and ohh im not american.

| Side: Barack Obama
-1 points

Obama is scary . . way too many unknowns about him. He could be the antiChrist for all I know. At least with McCain, you know what you're getting. If McCain doesn't get someone like Huck as a VP, I might vote "none of the above."

| Side:
John McCain
alex89(2) Disputed
2 points

your getting a cok sucker thats identical to Bush..But ohh i guess since your one of those retarded americans your still going to vote for him..GL with the presidential elections. from our views your country is going to shit =)

| Side: Barack Obama
-2 points
-5 points
-10 points
18 points

I think that Obama is going to be the next President. People in the United States are tired of the policies of the past 8 years and those that are "on the fence" now will be moved by Obama's strong rhetoric and engaging oratories and will be convinced to vote for him come November 4th.

| Side:
Barack Obama
4 points

Barack Obama is lilely to be the next POTUS not only because people are ready for a change but also because he is running a superior political campaign as compared to his adversaries. His campaign's organizational strengths first took down Hillary Clinton, now he's going to take down John McCain. In contested states the Obama Campaign has opened 194 field offices as compared to 60 for McCain and the GOP. Targeting likely voters and winning the "early voting war" are keys to victory, and Obama is well ahead. The candidate who gets the most voters to the polls wins, and that appears to be Obama.

Supporting Evidence: Winning The Early Vote (www.huffingtonpost.com)
| Side: Superior Organization Wins Elections
jamesgooch(12) Disputed
2 points

So just because a guy can speak well we should assume he will lead well? To me it sounds like we just found a guy who can describe a better fence (it's still a fence) for more people to sit on. And as far as rhetoric, I think he's just orating a new kind of sophistry that the voting majority is not ready to listen to. If it is not going to be McCain it will be some last minute third party unknown conservative who isn't quite as ancient.

| Side: Obama
jessald(1906) Disputed
3 points

Ability to speak well is highly correlated with intelligence which is in turn highly correlated with good leadership.

Just look at Bush for an example of poor speaking ability indicating low intelligence which in turn leads to lowsy leadership.

| Side:
Barack Obama
1 point

No matter how you feel about him, Barack Obama is a powerful force that will influence the future direction of the United States. Whether he is elected President in 2008 or in a later election, Barack is the leader of political and social change for our country.

| Side: Obama
3 points

I believe that Barack will provide the change we need.

| Side: Barack Obama
StansSister(4) Disputed
0 points

It's not a question of who is "on the fence." This election will come down to who can control a majority of the larger states. If Obama cannot unite the democratic party (which he has not proved he is capable of), he will not win the traditionally Democratic states come November. Many of those who are "on the fence" are upper middle class whites, who might even tend to support McCain's moderate economic policies. Finally, Americans, with help from the pundits, will see through Obama's glowing rhetoric and dazzling speeches and will understand that Obama is a candidate of ideals, dreams, hope, ambition; but he is not a candidate of realities.

| Side:
John McCain
orle8050(15) Disputed
7 points

I didn't realize that the only way to win the Presidency was to win the Big States. I was under the impression that there were 50 states big and small.

I belive this year CO, IA, MO, and NM will be in place and those are not big states.

I also disagree with that he is not a candidate of realiites. Obama, Clinton, and Edwards barely differ regarding policy issues. Between Clinton and Obama the policy difference were so small that people turn this into an American Idol contest since the policies were virtually the same.

The policy difference with Obama and McCain is so strong even a blind man can see.

| Side:
Barack Obama
13 points

Obama will win the Presidency.

McCain represents everything that Americans are tired and wary of. We've been complaining about 'politics as usual' for generations, because most politicians are like McCain: older white men with an established agenda, at the beck and call of the corporations and special interest groups that finance their campaigns.

That's over now. Obama was nominated in an entirely new way -- with the power of the internet behind him, and everything that entails -- and he isn't a serf of the big-money interests that have kept real change from taking place in Washington.

Additionally, McCain's ties to Bush, his loose relationship with facts, and his age are certain to work against him. Put them up side by side, and it's Nixon and Kennedy all over again.

It's time for a new way of doing things all across the board: the old media is being made obsolete, and so are the old politics that depend upon it. He'll be the first President of a burgeoning American renaissance, and the fact that he has broken so many standing 'facts' about politics already only gives more weight to that.

| Side:
Barack Obama
northain(6) Disputed
5 points

I'd love to believe that's true, but unfortunately I think that perspective only applies to a section of American society, the one young, internet-savvy Americans are most exposed to. I'm doubtful that 'middle America' see it that way.

| Side:
John McCain
3 points

"...the old media is being made obsolete, and so are the old politics that depend upon it. He'll be the first President of a burgeoning American renaissance..."

Music to my ears. Oh how I hope this is true.

| Side:
Barack Obama
3 points

Barack Obama is an extraordinary politician. So much so, it's unfair to label him a politician. He is a leader not a politician. Sure, he is a Senator and strives to be President, but those are the channels set by our forefathers in order for a citizen to be considered a leader in the United States. Barack has the map to the Oval Office but takes a different highway than most.

He stands up for what is morally correct and doesn't play in the good ole boy network. He listens to his constituents, stands up for the citizens he represents and keeps the best interest of the United States at heart. That's why he was one of the few who voted against the Iraq war. Barack knew the reasons for war were cloudy and that not all avenues were pursued before deciding to go to war. He made his position clear and has never backed away from it.

| Side: Obama
8 points

People will vote for Barack because they want change. McCain is strongly for the war and people want our troops home. Barack will bring them home. Electing McCain would be like electing Bush all over again. Eight years of him is quite enough. Even republicans are turning away from their own party because they want our troops home.

| Side:
Barack Obama
6 points

Barack Obama will be our next President. John McCain is a national hero, a centrist and very capable politician. There are two reason why such an attractive candidate is doomed in his bid for the highest office in our country.

Reason #1) George Bush has given his political party the lowest approval rating of any party in the last 50 years. The war in Iraq, staggering energy cost, the lack of response to hurricane Katrina are just a few of his uglier moments that have taken gotten him here.

Reason #2) Barack Obama: This is no longer a campaign but a movement. He has not only changed the face of politics as we know it, he has also changed the sound. He is charismatic and in tune with the theme that so many Americans are longing for; Hope.

| Side:
Barack Obama
6 points

We need a progressive, non-agressive and diplomatic leader. Let it be Obama.

| Side: Barack Obama
5 points

The American public is generally angry with the republican party. Historical evidence shows that when disaster occurs in the country, the people get angry and chase the party in power out of the white house, no matter which party it is.

The label of "Republican" has become anathema to the younger generation, who haven't been entrenched in party warfare as long. It will still be a very close race, though.

| Side:
Barack Obama
5 points

There is absolutely no question that Barack Obama will be the next president of the United States.

Set aside his charisma. Set aside his progressive stances.

What matters this time is that Americans are ready for a change. Hilary Clinton probably would have made it a closer race, but even with Clinton running for president, the American people know that the country needs fresh, new leadership, with new ideas, and a new way of looking at things.

And it's not only the Americans. Obama's election to the presidency will send a message to the rest of the world that the U.S. wishes to lead the world by example, not by heavy-handed military muscle.

| Side: Obama
5 points

I believe that Obama will be the next president, because he knows what he's talking about and is very promising.

| Side: Barack Obama
4 points

Policies aside, having watched both Obama and McCain at the podium, and having witnessed Obama masterfully deflect any and all criticism coming from the Clinton campaign during the primaries, it seems likely that Obama will take a stranglehold on the election once the televised debate season starts. Obama is so strong on the podium, and so articulate that he will likely eat McCain alive during the debates.

| Side:
Barack Obama
4 points

The American public is generally angry with the republican party. Historical evidence shows that when disaster occurs in the country, the people get angry and chase the party in power out of the white house, no matter which party it is.

The label of "Republican" has become anathema to the younger generation, who haven't been entrenched in party warfare as long. It will still be a very close race, though.

| Side:
Barack Obama
4 points

If McCain wins this election, I will have lost all faith in the American public. McCain's policies are almost identical to Bush's, and since Bush's approval ratings are down near 30%, you would expect Obama to win in a landslide. But of course, the average American has no clue as to what is going on, so it will end up being much closer than it ever should be.

| Side: Obama
4 points

We don'y need someone esle wh lies and misleads us like Bsuh did. We need something new and different instead and someonhow who will help our country

| Side: Obama
4 points

Right now Senator Obama is leading in the polls but by a very small margin. According to Real Clear Politics Obama is ahead 47% to Senator McCain's 45%. The polls may show that it is a tight race however, the American people will not choose a Republican for President for quite some time.

The American people are not looking for substance; they are looking for a positive message, which is not a good thing, in my opinion. Both the Republicans and Democrats are not giving detailed plans and if they are, it is more of the same.

What is more amazing is that the media, and Obama supporters, let Mr. Obama off the hook with every single negative point to Obama's record and past. This just proves the point that the Illinois Senator will be elected based on the "hope" and "change" ad nausem.

| Side: Barack Obama
4 points

Obama will get a huge lift from the choice of Palin for McCain's VP. The pregnant daughter will turn out to be the tip of the iceberg. In an attempt to energize his campaign McCain's mis-step wll prove to be his undoing. The best thing for Obama is that he can take the high road all the way to the white House as Palin packs for Alalska.

| Side: Barack Obama
4 points

Barack Obama is some fresh air we need in the white house! In the past 40 years in only 13 have we had a Democrat as president. In the past 40 years no Republican president has ever come close to balancing a budget. They all ran up massive deficits. That includes Reagan Bush and Bush! Clinton left a surplus!

Republicans have no agenda other than attack Democrats for what they have been doing for the past 8 years: Running up a $3 TRILLION deficit and getting 60,000 plus innocent people killed in a country that had nothing to do with terrorists not had anything to do with 9/11! Meanwhile those who are making out are those on Corporate Welfare and no bid contracts. Bush in 2006 cut VA Hospitals by 1 BILLION while giving tax cuts to the rich!

McCain is already getting senile and Palin in her speech provided no insight as to what they were going to do except more tax cuts for the rich! She also lies a lot. Her speech was riddled with lies. She supported the Bridge to nowhere. What the heck, it was BUSH'S speech writers who wrote her speech!

Have seen no plan from the Republicans except more of the same, and I guess that means them violating the constitution and torturing people, starting wars and bleeding the poor dry! O am sick of Republicans. And I don't want this ticket as that means the end of Roe V Wade!

| Side: Barack Obama
4 points

I sincerely believe that Barack Obama will be the next President of the United States. The American people were stampeded into voting Republican the last time based on an overwhelming projection of fear-mongering. We seemed to respond more to our feelings than our thoughts. I'm now hoping that more of the country has literally come to its senses. As President Lincoln said: "You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time." Pray God that we've finally reached this point.

| Side: Barack Obama
4 points

The little blurb underneath the question is false and misleading. They are not polar opposites.

They both want to go to war with Iran and other nations coughPakistancough.

The following links are key examples that Senator Barack Obama is another war-mongering commander-in-chief, which the United States has had for several decades now:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnywcosoPuI&feature;=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uw2XTC1V4fk&feature;=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuBVJ3dQHdw&feature;=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyIHcokQaKw&feature;=PlayList&p;=16A069216601F514&index;=15

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2u7uCDGpjI&feature;=PlayList&p;=16A069216601F514&index;=18

Iran is not a threat...Oh wait, Iran is a threat.

| Side: Barack Obama
2 points

This is the true Obama, all talk no action. He just tells people what they want to hear. You know what, i say let him be preisdent, because when he screws up the country even more, its going to be funny. Why, because every single liberal and democrat is going to turn against him and say I didn't vote for him. Obama, what a joke.

| Side: Barack Obama
4 points

Obama will be the next President of the United States because he and running mate Joe Biden stand for freedom and equality.

Our great nation was founded on the principles of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

His competitors seek to take away personal choice, do not favor equality, believe in global warming.

Obama seeks to move our country forward.

The GOP would like to return us to the middle ages.

I don't know how anyone can look at what has happened in the U.S. over the past eight years and NOT say ENOUGH. No How, No Way, No McCain.

| Side: Barack Obama
4 points

Here is, briefly, Senator Obama’s plan on how to jumpstart the economy again (obviously he has never read Adam Smith or Ludwig von Mises):

Provide a Tax Cut for Working Families: Obama will restore fairness to the tax code and provide 150 million workers the tax relief they need. Obama will create a new "Making Work Pay" tax credit of up to $500 per person, or $1,000 per working family. The "Making Work Pay" tax credit will completely eliminate income taxes for 10 million Americans.

Why not a tax cut for everyone? Plus how can he give tax breaks to citizens if his spending is astronomical? What would make even more sense is to just cut the income tax and not give any tax credits. Basically what this means is that he will give another stimulus package. You pay into it, you get money back. That is an awful way to handle the economy.

| Side: Barack Obama
4 points

I believe that Barak Obama will be the next president for a myriad of reasons. First off, he's more charismatic than McCain, and that holds more weight in modern politics than anything else- he's better looking, a better speaker, and comes off as a nice guy who you wouldn't mind shooting some hoops with or going to the movies with or whatever activity floats your boat- in general, people do indeed vote for the candidate they'd like to have a beer with. On top of that, the economy is so deep in the tank that it's very survival is in question- and on this issue, in poll after poll after poll, Obama is trusted by more Americans than McCain as the person with the best chance to do something to fix it. Why? Because they remember the last time a president named Bush brought the country to the brink of bankruptcy, it was a democrat who pulled us out of it. Add to that the inevitable mentions of the Keating 5 scandal and McCain's role as one of those five senators in these fiscally trying times. And then add Palin's curiouser and curiouser displays of ignorance and arrogance on nationally televised interviews to the mix. And to top it all off, add the massive voter registration of democrats that the Obama organization has run, and there is no way, in the current political climate, for McCain to win. Of course, something could happen- some new calamity or scandal could surface that changes everything. But until that happens, we can look forward to seeing an Obama White House.

| Side: Barack Obama
3 points

Does charisma help a president? Yes. Charisma helped presidents like Kennedy and Reagan, who put it good use (though I don't agree with Reagan's policies). Charisma also helped presidents who abuse it, like George W. Bush, who has used his charisma to get thousands of Americans killed in two wars, inspire the entire world to hate America, and drive the economy into a credit sinkhole. The criticism against Obama regarding his charisma has denigrated him as nothing more than a law professor who can speak a good speech but has no experience in foreign policy. Excuse me, but the whole world loves Obama. His charisma is already turning the world's hatred for America into love. When he was in Europe, he got the Germans wishing they were African-American, at least for a day. I think we'll be hearing a lot more rap and hip-hop in German in the near future. Candidates in Brazilian elections are renaming themselves, "Obama." Can they do that? Who cares. Barack Obama is his own foreign policy. Once Obama becomes president, the world will come back on our side. McCain, on the other hand, wants to bomb Iran. He talks about all the Middle Eastern countries he's visited, but I actually lived in the Middle East. The apartment I lived in was down the street from an Iranian high school in Ankara, Turkey. Yet, I never met a Middle Eastern person I wanted to bomb. Even though it was necessary to go after the Taliban, I'm not willing to bomb Iran just because Mahmoud Ahmadinejad says crazy things. McCain can't even pronounce, "Ahmadinejad!" I have a Persian American friend who tells me that everyone in Iran likes America and is fed up with their own insane government. (Watch Persepolis and you'll get a clue about the Persians.) McCain has tried to brand himself as a maverick, but that's really just a way for him to put a spin on the fact that he's a flip-flopping political opportunist who uses political theatre to draw attention to himself. McCain tried to one-up Obama last week by allegedly suspending his campaign and air-dropping himself into the bailout negotiations, as if to say, "Here I am to save the day!", but yesterday his buddies in the House of Reps sent the bailout down the toilet ... and now McCain blames Obama! What the hell??? McCain might be better off bailing Sarah Palin out of interviews that give away the limits of her brain power. As Mr. McAllister recently predicted, Palin has become a rock around old man McCain's neck. Even conservative Republicans like George Will are saying the same thing. And now that McCain's theatrics have only proven his ignorance about the economy, Americans are started to wise up about which candidate will get us out of this mess: Barack Obama.

| Side: Barack Obama
3 points

I strongly believe that Obama is going to be the next President of the United States of America. McCain just can't seem to get his facts straight.

McCain's YouTube Problem Just Became a Nightmare

| Side:
Barack Obama
Hairchrm(25) Disputed
2 points

Bush was elected, and it is clear that he, too, did not have his facts straight. I don't think that negative propaganda can be used to illustrate who is going to win an election, especially when past elections have not followed the trend of electing the "smartest" candidate, for lack of a better term.

| Side:
John McCain
3 points

I believe that our country is done with this war, and the war-mongering. It's done with the GOP, if it can even be called that anymore - the things that the current Republican party has done would make the party originators roll over in their graves. It's done with Bush. It's done.

I hope.

| Side:
Barack Obama
sparsely(495) Disputed
1 point

And you think Obama plans to change Americas war-mongering? I agree with most of what you said, but we need someone who not only talks about change, but about what kind and how.

Ron Paul ftw.

| Side:
John McCain

Obama will be the next President. Democrats are signing up new voters at a rate of 3 to 1 over the Republicans. Also, the republicans aren't even unified. They are pretending to be. Ron Paul and even Mike Huckabee(Who endorsed McCain!) have been getting up to 25% of the GOP vote. Republican Senators are losing special elections in solid GOP areas. READ THE WRITING ON THE WALL: Democratic landslide in 2008.

| Side:
Barack Obama
Hairchrm(25) Disputed
4 points

Republicans aren't unified? That's the pot calling the kettle black. Have you looked at the recent news? Clinton basically lost months ago, but is she pulling out? No way! There is essentially no hope for her, but does she really care? She has split the democrats cleanly in two, and you claim that the Republicans aren't unified? At least they have a clear idea of who is running! Instead, all Clinton can do is smear the Obama camp, which merely damages the Democrats as a whole.

| Side:
John McCain
5 points

Yes. Republicans aren't unified. Nothing you can say about the democrats will change that. Obama will appease Hillary in some way and then she will encourage her followers to go with Obama. It's that simple. You can't really say that about the repubs. The Democrats are not going to throw this one away. Anything else is just the Republicans complaing in the twilight of their power. Time for a change.

| Side:
Barack Obama
3 points

Barack Obama represents a promise for change in the way that America is lead, in the direction of intelligent leadership and fresh ideas coming from different perspectives then those of the leaders of the current establishment. I think that that potential has really excited and resonated with the American people, and I think that that momentum will overcome whatever obstacles are thrown up through the rest of the campaign, and win him the Presidency in the general election.

Hairchrm(25) Disputed
5 points

Please note that the source you used cites a 4% error margin. Notice that within this margin, McCain could be placed ahead of Obama. The article itself cites an update that notes this, and also notes that the claim that Obama gained popularity versus McCain across the past few months may be inaccurate, as it is within the margin of error. Also, the poll used only just over 1,000 individuals, I would hardly call that a comprehensive poll of America. Your evidence is clearly lacking.

| Side:
John McCain
emptyhands(62) Disputed
3 points

I wasn't citing that as evidence of a guaranteed win by Obama. We're talking about an election that is several months of intensive campaigning away, and Obama hasn't even fully finished his campaign for the Democratic nomination at this point. Considering that, I don't think that any poll conducted now could suffice to definitely, accurately predict the winner of the election. I cited that poll more as evidence that Obama has (probably, in a recent sense, and definitely, in a more protracted sense) been gaining ground, and that he is certainly now within striking distance as far as winning in November goes, as far as we can tell from here.

| Side:
Barack Obama
sparsely(495) Disputed
3 points

Has there ever been a presidential candidate who hasn't promised change in some way. You act like you've never heard these words before. It's a slogan, a catchphrase. You'd think people were choosing their favorite soft drink or something. I guess that's about all the depth the consumerist mindset will allow.

| Side:
John McCain
3 points

Correct!

B. Clinton platform was change. Why do people see Obama's change as some sort of different chan than Clinton ran on.

And Clinton was younger when he took office than Obama

| Side:
John McCain
emptyhands(62) Disputed
2 points

I actually said that I felt that he represented a promise for change. I look at him as a candidate and see the potential for significant change in the way this country is led, should he get in. Not so much because he likes the word "change", but because of who he seems to be and what he seems to really stand for. I agree that essentially every candidate ever has promised change in some way, if all I saw in Obama was the ability to say "change" a lot and not mean it any more then anyone else, then I wouldn't support him based on anything related to that.

| Side:
Barack Obama
3 points

I am in favor of Barack Obama because people in America need change, And Bush has burnt them out on republicans for a while.

| Side:
Barack Obama
3 points

sheer popularity will reign

| Side:
Barack Obama

It's simple: Americans are too stunned from the last eight years to allow another Republican to be president, no matter whom it is. Indeed, with the failures of the war, the education system, the soaring oil and health care costs, and the conspiracies and cover-ups of the government, Americans want change.

| Side:
Barack Obama
3 points

I am tired of old farts...let's get some change in there...someone who wants to talk peace if they are able.

I am tired of war mongols!

But isn't the electorial college that puts the prez in???

OH dear, I was having a George W. momment....

I am an OBAMA MOMMA!

| Side:
Barack Obama
3 points

I think Obama will win the popular vote but only because most people don't understand anything about his opponent.

Comparing McCain to Bush is an outrage in my mind. I grew up in Arizona though so I know the man. He's an honest, hard-working man who actually gave 2 sh!ts about his constituents in Arizona. I currently live in Colorado and I'm pretty sure our Representatives and our Senators couldn't locate Colorado on a map. McCain was never a greedy person or even that political. He never votes on the party line instead choosing to listen to his own moral compass and the people he represents to help him vote on serious issues. A lot of times his votes fly directly in the face of the Republican agenda yet he's unflinching in his approach. He'll vote on something for the good of the people and it doesn't matter if it has an R or a D attached to it. That's why so many Republicans hate or fear McCain. He's not going to tow the right-wing line.

In my opinion, it's win-win for America. Either candidate seems like an honest candidate that will truly represent America much better than the retard currently in office. I'm going to watch the debates and keep my own agenda in mind and I'll vote for the right person for the job. That may be Obama, that may be McCain but either way it'll be the right choice for America.

| Side:
Barack Obama
3 points

He actually knows how to use a computer.

| Side:
Barack Obama
3 points

The current abysmal approval rates of congress show that people want change. Obama says he will change things. I believe him. So do many who hear him speak. This hope for a better America will carry him to the Presidency.

Plus McCain is older than dirt.

| Side:
Barack Obama
3 points

Presidential races historically don't begin until Labor Day, when the American electorate actually starts paying closer attention to picking who going to occupy the White House. Polling before that holiday and national conventions generally doesn't reflect the will of the voters, especially when the candidates still have to chose their running mates. This election cycle is unique, however, because large numbers of voters are quite unhappy with the direction the country has taken and blame President Bush and the Republican Party, and many voters are paying close attention to the race now. Barack Obama has that advantage in this election and represents a complete break with business as usual. Look for a close Obama win this November and the loss of several Senate and House seats by Republicans.

Supporting Evidence: Obama Will Win Close Election (politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com)
| Side: The Past Or The Future
3 points

When Barack Obama speaks of change it's not just talk. His meaning of change has purpose. He doesn't want Washington to be run as it has for so many decades. He wants political leaders to be more accessible to their constituents and provide exceptional representation. Barack believes in different political parties, different points of view and different beliefs, and he believes differences working together will bring positive results.

Barack Obama is not a saint nor does he pretend to be so. He is a man with a clear vision of the State of the Union, past, present and future. He is a leader in a world where national, personal and economic security is threatened daily. He is the one who will unite where divisions have been made. He will be the one to take a stand where others fear to walk, and the United States of America desperately needs his leadership.

| Side: Obama
3 points

The "youth vote" is garnering a substantial amount of attention in the 24 news cycle as the CNNs, MSNBCs, and what-have-yous continue to breakdown voter turnouts in what is amounting to be (if it's not already) a record-setting election year.

The Obama campaign has been the particular focus in reference to pulling the youth vote from its near invisibly status eight years ago and its humble presence in the election of 2004. There is no denying the political influence and pull of the voting demographic that was raised under the Reagan to Bush Sr. to Clinton and Bush Jr. administrations on the eventual results of the Presidential Election of 2008.

However, the extent to which this demographic may affect the election has yet to be seen. The partisan divide in our nation is intense and the independent voting block is maybe larger than its ever been. The political disillusionment and frustration in our country will definitely play an important role on the amount of voters who come out in November.

The Democratic Party itself, while it has struggled significantly, has not been obsolete in voter turnouts and the 2006 midterm election results gave legitimacy to the claim that the Republican Party has suffered in public opinion under the administration of an unpopular President.

The conditions for an Obama victory in November are ripe and the Democratic Party has not had a better chance of attaining the executive seat for nearly two decades.

I'd argue the ace card between McCain and Obama is who can invigorate the youth vote and Obama seems to have it up his sleeve at this point.

Supporting Evidence: The Youth Vote (www.npr.org)
| Side: The Youth Vote
3 points

Alright, so speaking in numbers, Barack's lead over McCain has been increasing steadily since mid-July. Early June, Obama led by a whopping eight points on average up until early August when the numbers began to plateau and the margin decreased by almost points after Obama's trip to Europe and the resulting McCain attacks.

Now, however, the lead has been regained by a solid three points and climbing as of today. The numbers continue to impress as Obama's grassroots campaign continues to connect with voters door-to-door. If this keeps up and no more major waves are made by Obama and his campaign managers, the road looks pretty clear for the senator.

If you want to keep up with the numbers (updated daily) check out the Rasmussen Reports:

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/general_election_match_up_history

Mark Obama's constant progress!

Supporting Evidence: Poll numbers (www.rasmussenreports.com)
| Side: Obama gaining speed
3 points

Ah...Naje, here we go again.

The latest poll released by The New York Times/CBS News showed an unchanged 48 to 43 point Obama lead over John McCain among registered voters.

Interestingly enough, however, the poll also showed that nearly half of those voters surveyed viewed the troop surge supported by McCain as a positive move in the war in Iraq. While that comes as a notable bonus to the GOP ticket, the numbers failed to show any significant shift in the women vote, which McCain was hoping to attract with by saddling himself up next to Gov. Palin as his running mate.

Obama still holds the independent vote over McCain and boasts a 16 point lead in the influential youth vote. McCain took a sizable advantage over Obama in the white male vote and still has an advantage in the white female vote (though not as much as I'm sure his campaign are hoping for in November.)

All said and done, I consider the most important stat to be derived from these numbers is the 46% of American voters who think a McCain administration will just be a continuation of the Bush administration and the 22% who argue the Arizona Senator will be more conservative than Bush.

As we follow these elections, the predominant message nearly all Republican candidates are sweating to get across to their voters is that they are NOT "Bush-era" Republicans. The last 8 years have built a mighty wall for the GOP to scale over. Whether or not they will be able to achieve such a feat before November is only a matter of time. Time that, with 47 days left till the election, is quickly running out.

Supporting Evidence: Time Running (www.nytimes.com)
| Side: Time Running
BigIron(475) Disputed
1 point

As far as "speaking in numbers," it'll drive a man or woman mad to follow this election year by the fresh crop of new numbers and poll results hitting the news cycles and blogospheres every morning when the sun rises, but (as pitiful as it is) I can't help myself.

This morning (Tuesday, September 16th) Rasmussen put Obama and McCain in a deadlocked 47% tie. For the past three days, Obama has plateaued at 47%, while McCain has come down two points over the past two days. Last week, the Senators were also tied up at 48% and it seems that this neck-to-neck race is going to run its course all the way to November. Unless, of course, someone trips up and the "American public" (of whom the Rasmussen gathers these results) reacts in drastic fashion to the left or to the right.

The Palin factor has put a lot of traffic on that "road" that looked "pretty clear" for Obama more than three weeks ago and it will be even more interesting to see how these numbers move around after the market fallout from yesterday starts to sink into the political emotions of the American voter.

Personally, I admire Obama's dedication to the "thinking man's" campaign. However, I'm not placing any bets that he can pull it off in November if he keeps up the "positive politics" angle against the refined, polished, and incredibly effective Republican assault he's going to be up against for the next fifty or sixty days before we go to the booths.

As much as I hate to say it, the Obama/Biden ticket, as devoted as they claim to be on a "real discussion of the issues", may have to put their own gloves and fight back sooner or later or they're going to find themselves knocked out when it's all said and done.

Supporting Evidence: Tied up in the ring (www.rasmussenreports.com)
| Side: Tied up in the ring
3 points

It is a real test of our democracy when the will of the People is so clear yet the possibility of that will being unrealized is also clear. It has become a cliche to suggest that it is time for a change but history ebbs and flows and clearly the Bush/McCain tide is ebbing. Our elections are a test of the campaign staff's ability to communicate and react in a way that moves voters to action. Who are you most afraid of? Who would you prefer to have a beer with? Just as in the movie "The Candidate" style over substance and packaging a candidate like a box of detergent can lead to disastrous results. It's time for Obama but can he move the American People to vote their interests? Time will tell. In the future I'll breakdown the issues in the naive hope that the issues matter.

| Side: The Past Or The Future
3 points

This election has already been touted as the most important election of perhaps the last 50 years (though, of course, we could debate that all day and night), but the pot has now been stirred yet again as McCain has announced his running mate, Alaskan Governor Sarah Palin, to stand beside him as the GOP Vice President.

The pick comes somewhat as a surprise to the political analysts, wizards, and 24 hour punditry who might of expected (and tossed around the names of) Joe Lieberman or Ridge (or some even mentioned Powell {?}).

The pick has a lot of potential to dig a bigger wedge into the gap created by the Obama/Hillary split in the Democratic Party (which, I'd be willing to bet, is still a festering wound despite what the networks and James Carville might have you believe) as the election now takes its turn into the straightaway to November.

But, as strategic as the Palin choice may seem, I don't see how she compliments McCain other than that she's a woman and may gain some support from fiscally conservative voters from both sides of the partisan divide. She has disqualified the GOP attack against Obama's "lack of experience" as I would think it very difficult for McCain to continue that jab with a VP who has but two years of prominent political experience.

Joe Biden seems to compliment Obama as a VP running mate more than Palin does McCain as he has six and a half terms under his belt in the Senate (to address Obama's experience issue); he's a chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee and has a son serving in Iraq (to address questions of Obama's angle towards national security and fighting the war on terror); and he's a well-respected and notably moderate Democrat with significant pull among blue-collar voters (to address Obama's lack of connection to middle America.)

While both VP choices are refreshing in their consideration of the respective Presidential candidates' shortcomings, Biden is the stronger pick and (I believe) will strengthen the Obama campaign as we move into debate season more than Palin.

Supporting Evidence: Measuring the VP picks (voices.washingtonpost.com)
| Side: Measuring the VP picks
3 points

I think that the American people at this point in time have decided that things need to change. I think this election will see things change as often and in as many ways as the voters can have influence over. For example, here in Provo, Utah, the incumbent republican candidate for the house in my district actually lost, and will not be on the ticket as the Republican candidate in the actual election. Since this is Utah county Utah, a Democratic candidate doesn't stand much of a chance, but the people still spoke and their voices said "we want change." For that reason, regardless of platforms, positions or performance, I think that Obama will win. Also, he has a huge following in popular "hip" media, which I really think is going to bring out the College kids in droves.

| Side: Barack Obama
3 points

Recently another move to make the United States part of a one-world government occurred in the United State Senate when the bill “Global Poverty Act” passed, which was sponsored and or created by Sen. Obama, Sen. Hagel and Sen. Cantwell.

This bill would do the following:

• Declares it official U.S. policy to promote the reduction of global

poverty, the elimination of extreme global poverty, and the

achievement of the Millennium Development Goal of cutting extreme

global poverty in half by 2015.

• Requires the President to develop and implement a comprehensive

strategy to carry out that policy.

• Includes guidelines for what the strategy should include - from aid,

trade, and debt relief, to working with the international community,

businesses and NGOs, to ensuring environmental sustainability.

• Requires that the President’s strategy include specific and

measurable goals, efforts to be undertaken, benchmarks, and

timetables.

• Requires the President to report back to Congress on progress

made in the implementation of the global poverty strategy.

| Side: Barack Obama
3 points

"Amend the North American Free Trade Agreement: Obama believes that NAFTA and its potential were oversold to the American people. Obama will work with the leaders of Canada and Mexico to fix NAFTA so that it works for American workers."

Several things are wrong with this plan and contradictive at the same time. One) He will not end NAFTA, even if he believes his own rhetoric, it will not be allowed because of special interests. Two) His wife is part of the Council on Foreign Relations, and he, himself, is a member. Three) The North American Union is being implemented. Four) He stated in a town-hall meeting that he has never even heard of the NAU that, in itself, is grounds for not being President.

| Side: Barack Obama
2 points

As we embark on the future the world will change in ways we have never seen before,I truly believe the emergence of Barack Obama is the beginning of that experience.The new energy,fresh breath and winning spirit Obama has created around the world will never be defeated by such a weak opponent such as McCain,to be honest his greatest challenge was defeating Clinton-which has done with ease and calculated moves unseen in my generation.So yes America should prepare herself for a HUGE CHANGE on all fronts

| Side:
Barack Obama
sparsely(495) Disputed
4 points

lmao

"As we embark on the future the world will change in ways we have never seen before"

Well no shit, Sherlock. That's the keen thing about the future, you know. We can't see it.

Your opinion sounds all poetic and nice (kinda like a vacation ad), but that's all it is. Fluff. Where's the beef?

| Side:
John McCain
chica(26) Disputed
3 points

There's that word again "change". Everything changes, the world turns and new things happen. That doesn't mean that "change" is a good thing. Wake up. Pogo said it all: "I have seen the enemy, and it is us". Let's try and not be our own worse enemy, OK?? Try this "for a change" why not "google" some info on Obama and then make a clear decision. Don't you like the lifestyle your living? He will not make it any better, maybe worse. Take a look, wake up....

| Side:
Barack Obama
Hairchrm(25) Disputed
3 points

The only thing you say in this paragraph is that Obama has energy, [is a?] fresh breath, and winning spirit. You then continue to call McCain weak, without any evidence. How can you call McCain weak when he was winning over Obama only a few months ago in polls (http://www.usatoday.com/news/polls/tables/live/2008-01-13-poll3.htm)? Also, how can you claim that defeating Clinton was the "greatest challenge"? I am sure that you are aware that half of the country did not vote in this election. Without such a substantial number of voters, nobody ought to claim that this was his greatest challenge. I am also appalled that you would claim his defeat of Clinton was done "with ease". Clinton still has not even admitted defeat, claims to own the popular vote, and is still fighting. I think that this argument has no basis, and that if you had to vote on this statement alone you should choose McCain.

| Side:
John McCain
2 points

Easy win. McCain has been a tool for the Bush administration, supports ever more war, offers not one wit of an idea about how to move forward on anything except "stay the course," and everyone is sick of that now.

As my senator, Arizonans are very skeptical of this idiot. Try calling his office some time. Who in their right mind plays John Phillps Souza marches on call waiting?! What a freaking nut.

Soon the rest of the world will know what we in Arizona know and loathe.

| Side:
Barack Obama
bpadair(17) Disputed
6 points

I don't think that your argument is accurate. If everyone in Arizona "loathes" him, why does he keep winning reelection. Your argument needs to be reevaluated.

| Side:
John McCain
2 points

"Raise the Minimum Wage: Barack Obama will raise the minimum wage, index it to inflation and increase the Earned Income Tax Credit to make sure that full-time workers earn a living wage that allows them to raise their families and pay for basic needs."

I always wondered why we had a federal minimum wage. Aren’t spending, the economy and jobs different in New York than it is in Utah? Leave it up to the States (see 10th Amendment).

"Expand High-Quality Afterschool Opportunities: Obama will double funding for the main federal support for afterschool programs, the 21st Century Learning Centers program, to serve a million more children. Obama will include measures to maximize performance and effectiveness across grantees nationwide."

This may give you a nice feeling in your stomach however, again, this is up to the States (see 10th Amendment) and former Senator and Presidential Candidate Barry Goldwater warned of this in his book The Conscience of a Conservative.

| Side: Barack Obama
2 points

"Create Fund to Help Homeowners Avoid Foreclosures: Obama will create a fund to help people refinance their mortgages and provide comprehensive supports to innocent homeowners. The fund will be partially paid for by Obama's increased penalties on lenders who act irresponsibly and commit fraud."

Isn’t buying a house up to the homeowner and not the Federal Government? Will we have any money left over at the end of Senator Obama’s first term? Why am I paying for someone else’s mortgage?

| Side: Barack Obama
2 points

For so many reasons I think he will but a few:

1. He exhibits great leadership qualities.

2. He's not GWB

Oh and I like that he's not older than William Harrison was when elected and then died 30days later.

| Side: Barack Obama
2 points

Connect the dots please:

Top 10 Corporate PAC Contributors:

Obama:

Goldman Sachs $739,521

UBS AG $419,550

Lehman Brothers $391,774

Citigroup Inc $492,548

Morgan Stanley $341,380

Latham & Watkins $328,879

Google Inc $487,355

JPMorgan Chase & Co $475,112

Sidley Austin LLP $370,916

Skadden, Arps et al $360,409

| Side: Barack Obama
2 points

"For the last twenty-four hours headline news have been the New Yorker front cover" but not the recent passing of the FISA Bill Amendments Act of 2008 or the HCON Res 362, which is a blockade and sanctions against Iran.

Mr. Obama had flip-flopped and actually voted for the FISA Amendments, which would give past, present and future immunity to telecommunications companies of wiretapping citizens of the United States, both foreign and domestic. This is unconstitutional and strictly goes against the fourth amendment

| Side: Barack Obama
2 points

An Associated Press article on MSNBC's website today reports that Barack Obama has already spent $3.3 million in television advertisements with a projected total of $90 million in campaign advertising to be spent by November 4th.

The dollar amounts are also buttressed by Obama's 11 percent point lead over McCain in the Gallup polls ("the largest advantage since the organization began testing voter opinions in their matchup early in the summer" the report claims.)

Yet, I think the most persuasive argument in support of Obama's advantage is the fact that his ad campaign has been predominantly positive as only a mere "34 percent of his ads attacked McCain directly."

The McCain/Palin campaign, on the other hand, seems to be scraping for negative attacks against Obama and nearly all of McCain's television spots have focused on Obama. The GOP's resort to personal attacks on Obama's personal life, his past affiliations (see the Bill Ayers issue), and campaign finances wreak of desperation and (I think) will ultimately prove detrimental to the McCain/Palin ticket as the more they try to pin the tail on Obama the less they are able to effectively address the economic crisis, which is going to be the deciding issue for American voters in this election.

Obviously, the economic crisis is playing into the hands of Democratic candidates across the nation as Republicans seem to be incapable of separating themselves from the disastrous fiscal idiocy of the last eight years and McCain is no exception.

Whether or not the situation we're currently in actually is the Bush administration's fault or not is not the issue, in the collective voting conscience across America it is. Perhaps it'd be more beneficial to McCain and Palin to redirect their attack-dog-tactics towards the Bush Administration rather than Obama. The problem lies in the obvious risk in such a move, Palin's utter incapability of making such a turn, and the bottomless ocean of fresh material it'd give Democrats to use against the Republican ticket.

The math for Obama, from this perspective, is much, much better than even the polls or dollar numbers can show.

Supporting Evidence: Obama's Math (www.msnbc.msn.com)
| Side: Obama's Math
2 points

How come no one ever discusses his ties to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac when he was a lawyer promoting Government to give loans out to people who couldn't afford them? Giving loans out to people with little or not credit. Obama is a fraud and should never be trusted.

| Side: Barack Obama
1 point

Presidential Candidate Barack Obama never states an actual timetable. When the surge was first enacted President Bush stated he would increase troops by 30,000 but would only take out 5,000 by summer of 2008 (that still has not happened).

The supposed anti-war party, the Democrats, won the election in 2006 on promising removal of troops in Iraq, which was a complete lie. Democratic officials keep claiming that their bills keep getting vetoed. All they have to do is not supply the troops with funding and that would end the war.

Every week a new meeting is held in either Afghanistan or Iraq to discuss future long-term deals when a week before a public official says the war will come to an end soon. No progress is being made in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The only reason why there is less violence in Iraq is because the U.S.-led coalition is paying off insurgent groups. Not to mention any time a soldier or civilian dies, that is not a win in my book. What are soldiers dying for in Iraq? Proponents of the war cannot give the same precise answer because no one knows why we have 4,000 dead Americans.

Mr. Obama was in Afghanistan last week to; once again, discuss long-term initiatives with President Hamid Karzai. Mr. Obama wants to redeploy, at least, 10,000 American troops from Iraq into Afghanistan.

| Side: Barack Obama

Obama is young, energetic, a great speaker with big ideas. He's exactly the man (or woman, but this just happens to be a male presidential race) that we need to bring change to this country. He's got all the right ideas, form the Global economic crisis, to the war in Iraq, he's just a guy bursting to get his ideas into the playing field. He's a great man for the job, and he beats out McCain by a mile.

| Side: Barack Obama
1 point

Honestly I have not payed much attention to the debates and I know nothing about either one of these men, but if Obama were to win the race card could almost be appealed and the nation could be stronger in years to come because of this election.

| Side: Barack Obama
1 point

obama is going to be president because he is lowing down tax fairs and gas prices

| Side: Barack Obama
-1 points

As an independent, I don't agree with the beliefs of either candidate, but as an informed citizen, I am regretful to say that Barack Obama will win. It is unfortunate, however, because most of his policies are Bull-S* and a lot of what he says will weaken this country. But I grew up with this rule of life my dad always made sure I remembered: ":People are stupid." and that is exactly why Obama is going to win, because uniformed voters are stupid voters, and a lot of the people that vote are uninformed, and a lot of what Obama says appeals to the uninformed voter. Informed voters should know that Obama talks nonsense and shouldn't be trusted at the head of this country, but following my first rule of life, I say that Obama will win. We were stupid enough to put Bush # 2 into office and with G-d as my witness we will be stupid enough to put Obama into office!

| Side:
Barack Obama
-1 points

٩๏̯͡๏)۶ ٩๏̯͡๏)۶ ٩๏̯͡๏)۶ ٩๏̯͡๏)۶ ٩๏̯͡๏)۶

| Side: Barack Obama
-2 points
-4 points
-6 points
-7 points
9 points

So do you constantly repeat vacuous nonsensical comments constantly on this site just to raise the number by your name?

Methinks you misunderstood the scoring system.

| Side:
John McCain
altarion(1935) Disputed
2 points

I think you may have misunderstood Joe's reasons for these posts. If you read his earlier post you would realize that he said "How many points do I have to lose before my efficiency drops to zero?" It may be a stretch for me to say this, but that could very possibly be his reasoning.

And apart for the spam posts, I think that Joe is a very intelligent intellectual who just likes to have a little fun.

| Side:
Barack Obama
-15 points
-17 points
-18 points
Maria0305(37) Disputed
7 points

Jeeessssuuusss you're an idiot.

| Side:
John McCain
altarion(1935) Disputed
1 point

He could do that even if he did win this year! It'd be a whole lot funnier if he lost, but it would still apply pretty fairly.

| Side:
John McCain
-6 points


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