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You make our work harder in trying to spread Gods word and glory.
Open letter to Atheists......
We don't all think like this arrogant ass who authored this debate.
Most of us are rational and we know there are plenty of Intelligent and good and kind atheists in the world. As well as many so called Christians who are simply miserable human beings.
As I do not judge you just for not having found God yet, I also humbly ask you not to think we were all arrogant zealots like Saint Nobody.
Thank you.
I am new but cannot create debates yet. So till I can I invite any questions or comments on my faith or testimony. Either here of please feel free to pm me.
Oh no, is little Saintnow getting offended because DemonHunter is telling the truth? And I guess he can't take it like a man 'cause he doesn't got the balls to and he's going to ban DemonHunter.
I don't care if you ban me. If you do, that just proves that I am telling the truth and that you can't stand to have anyone against you.
This video has a person of lower intellect playing the part of both the Christian and the Atheist. The Christian that made the video has never studied the origin of the universe and doesn't understand Big Bang theory at all. This Christian doesn't understand much about matter and energy. If they would have had a real atheist play the part of the atheist it would have been called' "How to make a Christians brain short circuit and explode.
I smile a lot, knowing God brings smiles. Jesus promises life, and life more abundantly to those who believe on Him and receive Him as their Savior. His life is a life full of joy, peace, love, and good works and He will never leave you or forsake you and be your life, a river of living water in you springing up to eternal life if you will ask God in Jesus name to save you from your sins, believe God has raised Him from the dead, and receive Him as your Savior.
And even though I am a Christian, I am also a fan and a student of science.
So I can debunk the moronic theme of that video.
Time itself came into being with the Big Bang. As did all the laws of physics. Including the law of cause and effect. Which is not the proper title of that law, btw. They are speaking of either Newton's Law of equal and opposite actions and reactions, OR the Law of the Conservation of Energy from the Four Laws of Thermodynamics.
So since everything including time and those laws did not come into being until after the BB, then it's occurrence as most reasonable believe, actually violates nothing.
The law of cause and effect is ONLY ever used to show God must exist. Theists claim that everything must have a cause, therefore God is the cause for the universe; oh, and this God doesn't need a cause. This scenario only ever explodes the heads of theists.
so explain where the universe came from, and if it was always there, doesn't that prove God can be there without a cause?
Explain where you think the universe came from and I'll walk you through the steps which will make your brain explode. Talk stupid and use profanities and you are banned. Discuss with me like a adult and you are welcome.
so explain where the universe came from, and if it was always there, doesn't that prove God can be there without a cause?
I have never once said that God was impossible. Nobody accepts things exist just because you point out that they have the possibility of existing, especially theists (which makes the argument incredibly weird). There is a huge leap from "well, God is possible" and "God definitely exists". You aren't explaining the leap.
Explain where you think the universe came from and I'll walk you through the steps which will make your brain explode.
I think all of the matter in the universe existed in a single point in the form of energy and a singularity caused an infinite expansion. I'll await an explosion.
You think all of matter in the universe existed in a single point in the form of energy and a singularity caused and infinite expansion. So what do you think the singularity was, where did it come from, or do you think it was always there? Are these things you think are true actually true or do you believe they are true because you think they are true?
at some point, you have to admit if you believer everything was always there in one form or another, or it was not, and nothing was there, but then something must have caused it to be there. What was this thing you refer to as a singularity, and was it always there along with everything else. If everything was always there with nothing causing it to be there, then everything is supernatural.
The problem is not explaining the leap to conclude God is there. The problem is accepting the fact that God is there. You are making a much larger leap of faith to believe the universe is eternal, and this unknown and undefined singularity caused an infinite expansion. How did it all come together in one point for a singularity to cause it to expand? This kind of thinking, a hypothesis you prefer to believe in, is a much larger leap of faith than to believe God created all things and always was there before all things. The reason you prefer your chosen leap of faith is that you imagine yourself to be free of accountability for your actions believing you get out of your record in death, so in your chosen leap of faith you have no superior to be your judge.
I suggest you watch the video again and answer the questions as asked. You don't have to submit to God, but to say He is not there is the most foolish thing anybody can say. There is no hope for anybody who has shut the door of their heart and mind against God, all is lost without God, if God is not your Savior you have no way of being saved and everything you do is futile....your bubble needs to be burst or you will suffocate inside it. God loves you and wants to get you out of death, wants you to be in life, forever, in Heaven with no more sorrow or pain or sickness or dying. If you keep Jesus shut out so He can't come in and be your Savior, you keep yourself shut in dying and you won't get out of it in the grave.
I don't know what you are fighting against other than your own life, and you are losing the fight.
You think all of matter in the universe existed in a single point in the form of energy and a singularity caused and infinite expansion. So what do you think the singularity was, where did it come from, or do you think it was always there? Are these things you think are true actually true or do you believe they are true because you think they are true?
I don't have anything specific that the singularity was. I only believe it because I think it is true and I concede that we don't actually have an answer right now.
at some point, you have to admit if you believer everything was always there in one form or another, or it was not, and nothing was there, but then something must have caused it to be there.
I don't have to admit that. I don't actually know how it got there, so it would be intellectually dishonest to say that I know something caused it to be there.
What was this thing you refer to as a singularity, and was it always there along with everything else. If everything was always there with nothing causing it to be there, then everything is supernatural.
That wouldn't make everything supernatural. I have no objection to calling the singularity supernatural. But, once the supernatural singularity completed everything afterward was natural.
You are making a much larger leap of faith to believe the universe is eternal, and this unknown and undefined singularity caused an infinite expansion.
No. That is an equal leap of faith. A belief in the eternal and in something unknown and undefined.
How did it all come together in one point for a singularity to cause it to expand?
Don't know. There is an infinite set of incorrect answers.
This kind of thinking, a hypothesis you prefer to believe in, is a much larger leap of faith than to believe God created all things and always was there before all things.
No. That is an equal leap of faith.
I suggest you watch the video again and answer the questions as asked.
I can't. The video involves an incredibly strange strawman argument. The theist is claiming that the arguments made by theists are being made by atheists. Every claim the theist made in the video that is attributed to atheists is only ever made by theists against the universe.
You don't have to submit to God, but to say He is not there is the most foolish thing anybody can say.
Your only presented reason for believing in God is that we don't know what happened trillions of years ago. That is foolish.
I don't know what you are fighting against other than your own life, and you are losing the fight.
I am fighting against you claiming that you could explode my mind. I am winning that fight easily.
supernatural singularity completed everything afterward was natural.
I"m not trying to be sarcastic like you often have, and you surprise me now by actually trying to discuss things reasonably. I hope you keep up this trend. Again, I'm not trying to be sarcastic, but this statement of yours does not make sense....how could a supernatural singularity complete everything and then everything is natural and the singularity became nothing? If I did not believe God created all things, I would just say I don't know and I would not believe anybody who tries to tell me stuff like you are trying to make yourself believe.....and again I am not trying to be sarcastic or nonsensical or insulting.
Most of my life I did not believe in God, but I saw no logical reason to rule Him out of being God, and knew that if He is God He would have to know and care for me personally. I found it hard to believe that He did know and care for me, but I never ruled out that possibility. I did explore Hinduism which is right in line with your singularity thinking...not much different, Vishnu or no Vishnu, the spark of divine in Hinduism is the same as your singularity idea from which our lives came....and it's very similar to atheism as it's god is impersonal and leads one to believe there is no punishment in death.
I don't know what got into you, but I do appreciate you trying to discuss things reasonably and logically explaining your belief and thinking.
how could a supernatural singularity complete everything and then everything is natural and the singularity became nothing?
It is the cycle of life. One thing emerges gives way to something new, then goes away. For example, a star forms, creates heavier elements, then explodes and goes away. The singularity is only supernatural because it has to exist outside of nature.
If I did not believe God created all things, I would just say I don't know and I would not believe anybody who tries to tell me stuff like you are trying to make yourself believe
You haven't given any reason why God is the only belief that is exempt from being considered making yourself believe. I am saying that I don't know what happened. You asked for a possible alternative.
and you surprise me now by actually trying to discuss things reasonably
I always try to discuss things reasonably. You then start complaining that it is too reasonable and you can't compete.
I don't know what got into you, but I do appreciate you trying to discuss things reasonably and logically explaining your belief and thinking.
You are a fucking retard. I always give you great responses. You choose to ignore them. You have constantly complained about people providing you with logic, then you go and do the very thing you complain about.
See? Your brain exploded when you looked at how silly and nonsensical your beliefs are, trying to contradict your own life hoping to escape punishment in death, believing you have the right to exist outside of Hell as a sinner. Keep talking as long as you can so we will know you are here, you'll be missed in this world when you are gone.....family and friends will be forced to carry on without you, have a long life and enjoy while you can....but then again, time is short no matter how you look at it.......wellllllllll enjoy.
clinging to nonsensical arguments saying things like "a singularity which was supernatural caused the natural universe to be what it is and now the singularity is no longer supernatural"........if talking like that keeps your head from exploding, by all means continue because I don't want your head to explode.
I didn't say the singularity is no longer supernatural, I said it no longer exists. Just like your ancestors no longer exist. And, you have to explain how it is nonsensical.
by all means continue because I don't want your head to explode.
That was supposed to be your goal. You are supposed to prove that you can cause my head to explode.
ok, the singularity was supernatural and caused the universe to be what it is, and now the singularity no longer exists. Where did it go, and what caused it to no longer exist? Wouldn't it have to be there still if it was there before?
Help me to make sense out of what you are saying you believe.
I don't want your head to explode, I simply got a kick out of the simple logic in the video asking questions of reality to get an atheistic viewpoint, now I want your view point. What happened to the singularity? How could it have been there before but not be there now? If it changed into the universe, then doesn't that mean the universe IS the singularity? Please help me get this straight so I can accurately state your beliefs in a way I can speak them logically in my own words...so far you are not making sense, but I"m sure you can help me get it right.
ok, the singularity was supernatural and caused the universe to be what it is, and now the singularity no longer exists. Where did it go, and what caused it to no longer exist? Wouldn't it have to be there still if it was there before?
99% of everything that ever existed in the universe no longer exists. Nothing is eternal. Why would I have to explain it's eternal behavior?
I simply got a kick out of the simple logic in the video asking questions of reality to get an atheistic viewpoint, \
That video was using premises that only THEISTS ever use. It is a strawman to pretend that atheists ever make those arguments. That video proves that theists heads explode using their own arguments.
How could it have been there before but not be there now?
How can your ancestors be here before, but not be here now?
So the remaining 1 percent of everything that has ever existed is on it's way out of existence? And your head is not exploding?
Are you kidding? Atheists never ask stupid questions like, "Where did God come from?"
I was in the genes of my ancestors, and their genes are in me. They were in the genes of their ancestors. There is a genetic record. They came from their parents, I came from them. The fact that they are not here now is not evidence that they no longer exist, nor is it evidence that 99 percent of the universe used to exist but no longer exists. If things existed and then they no longer exist, then matter and energy can be destroyed and you are believing in supernatural things because in nature matter nor energy can be destroyed or created. So are you trying to say the singularity was God and now God is gone and everything else is going out of existence as did the singularity? So nature is not bound by natural laws, but is supernaturally un-existing with only 1 percent of what was here left as it is on it's way out? Wouldn't that prove that your head is exploding, though slowly, poofing itself out of existence?
So the remaining 1 percent of everything that has ever existed is on it's way out of existence? And your head is not exploding?
No, of course not. All you have to do is watch the Lion King to learn about the circle of life. Why would not being eternal explode anyone's head? It should explode your head for thinking anything could be eternal when we see absolutely everything not be eternal.
Are you kidding? Atheists never ask stupid questions like, "Where did God come from?"
That's not the question the video represents. Atheists ask those questions because theists say everything has a cause, so the universe must have come from God. So, the atheist asks "Where did God come from?" because the THEIST presented the idea that everything came from something.
I was in the genes of my ancestors, and their genes are in me. They were in the genes of their ancestors. There is a genetic record. They came from their parents, I came from them.
That means they existed, not that they still exist.
So are you trying to say the singularity was God
No. You are trying to say the singularity was God.
and now God is gone and everything else is going out of existence as did the singularity?
No, I am saying this come in and out of existence. Nothing is eternal.
So nature is not bound by natural laws, but is supernaturally un-existing with only 1 percent of what was here left as it is on it's way out?
Nature is bound by natural laws which means that it can't be eternal. The current form of everything that exists only represents 1% of all of the forms that ever existed. The universe is cyclical and things form and exist, then cease to be in that form any more and no longer exist.
Wouldn't that prove that your head is exploding, though slowly, poofing itself out of existence?
Actually, it is proof that your head is exploding because you can't handle it.
Nature is bound by natural laws which means that it can't be eternal. The current form of everything that exists only represents 1% of all of the forms that ever existed. The universe is cyclical and things form and exist, then cease to be in that form any more and no longer exist.
So you are saying things change forms but do not cease to exist? Wouldn't that mean the singularity still exists, but in a different form?
First you say things go in and out of existence, then you say they change forms.....so which is it?
So you are saying things change forms but do not cease to exist?
The material that made up the thing continues to exist, but that actual thing no longer exists once it changes forms.
So if water changes to steam, then back to water, then to ice, then to water, then to steam, when the water is steam the water does not exist? When the water is ice, the water does not exist?
If your head explodes, it continues to exist in a different form but it's no longer your head so your head has ceased existing?
So if water changes to steam, then back to water, then to ice, then to water, then to steam, when the water is steam the water does not exist? When the water is ice, the water does not exist?
If you boiled away all of your drinking water and died of thirst while you were staring at the empty pot of water that became steam you would think the water didn't exist either.
If your head explodes, it continues to exist in a different form but it's no longer your head so your head has ceased existing?
Yes, it is safe to say that if you were actually able to get my head to explode it would no longer exist.
If a pot of water boiled until the water had all turned to steam and drifted away, why would I think the water no longer exists? The fact that it turned to steam and floated away only means I can't drink it. I would have to be hallucinating to believe the water went out of existence rather than vaporized and floated away. Please try to be logical and realistic, I don't want your head to explode.
Isn't your head deteriorating in corruption of death the same as it exploding? The chemical bonds holding it together release their energy and the bonds fall apart and the particles become scattered........isn't that an explosion? And does your head un-exist or does it simply change forms as it turns back into the dust from which it was made?
Isn't your head deteriorating in corruption of death the same as it exploding?
No. Is that what you thought the video was showing? You thought the video was pointing out the guy's corruption?
The chemical bonds holding it together release their energy and the bonds fall apart and the particles become scattered........isn't that an explosion?
How did it all come together in one point for a singularity to cause it to expand?
Don't know. There is an infinite set of incorrect answers.
You don't know and there is an infinite set of incorrect answers? So you do not know the correct answers? So I'll never get a correct answer out of you because you don't know what you are talking about, but as long as you are talking your head has not exploded? Am I getting it now?
You don't know and there is an infinite set of incorrect answers?
You don't know how periods work?
So you do not know the correct answers?
No, I have no way of knowing the correct answer, just like you have no way of knowing the correct answer.
So I'll never get a correct answer out of you because you don't know what you are talking about, but as long as you are talking your head has not exploded?
You don't have any idea why the theist illustrated an exploding head in the video, do you?
The only thing I have been able to make sense of in any of your statements here is that when you said there is an infinite number of incorrect answers, meaning you don't have a correct answer, meaning you don't know what you are talking about but as long as you can keep talking, it proves your head is not exploding.
You are telling me that you are going out of existence. If that belief is correct, how is it different from your head exploding? Your head is building up under pressure of time to explode in un-existence, is it not?
God could not be God if something caused Him to be God....if something caused God to be God, He would be less than God and not God. Of course there is no cause for God. There can't be a cause for God or He could not be God.
" therefore God is the cause for the universe; oh, and this God doesn't need a cause."
You are implying that God would need a cause to be God, and then as being caused He could not be God because God created all things but something caused Him so He can't be God while maybe the thing that caused Him is God...........and then you tell me you are not trying to use the law of cause and effect against God?
God could not be God if something caused Him to be God....if something caused God to be God, He would be less than God and not God. Of course there is no cause for God. There can't be a cause for God or He could not be God.
So, you don't believe in cause and effect, right? Therefore, the universe doesn't need a cause. Thank you for illustrating that the video illustrates the theist argument and not the atheist argument.
You are implying that God would need a cause to be God
No, you imply that God would need a cause to exist.
and then you tell me you are not trying to use the law of cause and effect against God?
Of course I am. That's because you use it show God. You have to have cause and effect and not have it at the same time.
I'm still trying to figure out how you are not contradicting yourself. So far, all I get is that you are trying to convince me that you are going out of existence, and would that not mean your existence is contradicted so you are self-contradicting, contradicting yourself? Or are you being contradicted by nothing outside of yourself?
Banned, you went back to your old ways of turning things around backwards in nonsensical statements avoiding discussion. This one was a bit of fun, but I think your head exploded toward the end and you fell apart. Back on my auto ban list.
Why do I hear so many atheists, Ph D's, and so many people on here saying "where did God come from?" Implying God cannot exist unless something caused Him to exist, which is a straw man argument because by definition God is eternal. Ask an atheist "where did the universe come from" and they will state their belief in one or more of the options shown in the video. To say the universe exists eternally implies it is supernatural as it would exist without a cause, so the current appearance of nature would be an illusion destined to change to another illusion after the universe dissipates through entropy or collapses or whatever you want to believe it will do.
The law of cause and effect seems to me to be the most common approach atheists use to try to prove God is not there, and it is a straw man argument as it is not discussing the eternal God which is the only God, and anything that had a beginning cannot be God...which is why atheists need to say the universe is eternal because they worship it in place of God.......This is what it's all about, people want to replace God with created things, with themselves and their own ideas, in order to excuse themselves for sin's pleasures.....
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
All this proves is some have way too much time on their hands and that they need to get a job of something productive so they can be contributing members of society.
