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They have the majority They shouldn't have a say
Debate Score:60
Arguments:44
Total Votes:72
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 They have the majority (26)
 
 They shouldn't have a say (22)

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Kuklapolitan(4250) pic



Why Do Straight People have the Call on Marriage or Civil Unions?

Every time we have a question about Gay Marriage or Civil Unions it's always put forth from the straight person's point of view.  Like how dare you steal my word for your paltry little ceremony and call it marriage.  You don't love, you just have sex and that's noting to get married about!  Oh no?  Even the good book says no sex before marriage.  So let's hear from some gay people on this one.  What do you think?  Shall we be the ones who choose the name for our ceremony   or should they?


They have the majority

Side Score: 31
VS.

They shouldn't have a say

Side Score: 29
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5 points

If it really came to down to just titles, we live in a Fuckin' Democratic Republic where shit like this doesn't make a difference.

To me, marriage should just be abolished as a government institution and it should just be Civil Unions. Government should have nothing to do with who loves who, and Marriage is EXACTLY that.

238 days ago | Tagged As: They have the majority
- joecavalry(10443) Supported
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3 points

The Pyg is right:

marriage should just be abolished as a government institution and it should just be Civil Unions. Government should have nothing to do with who loves who, and Marriage is EXACTLY that.

238 days ago | Tagged As: They have the majority
Vote Up Vote Down
2 points

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy

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Supporting Evidence: Democracy (en.wikipedia.org)
237 days ago | Tagged As: They have the majority
- pvtNobody(624) Disputed
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1 point  

The United States isn't a democracy Jake, if that's what you're trying to get at. Nor do the majority have the right to impose their beliefs on a minority. This is the exactly the sort of reason that the United States was established as a Representative Republic. The majority's prejudices and inability to cope with people and ideas they disapprove of is precisely why the founding fathers distrusted rule by the mob.

237 days ago | Tagged As: They shouldn't have a say
- JakeJ(2891) Disputed
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2 points

I know that the U.S. is not a direct democracy.

I was just trying to say that straight people should and do have a say. there are obviously more straight people so naturally when put to a vote (like prop 8) straight people will have the majority call no matter what it is.

I thought about putting a link to Representative Democracy to be safe from any loopholes like the one you scrambled up. Guess I have to be more specific next time. Nice try.

237 days ago | Tagged As: They have the majority
Vote Up Vote Down
1 point  

Gays should have never asked to be allowed to marry. They should have just asked for the same rights as marriage. Then, after obtaining said rights, they should have just started calling it a marriage and if someone objected, they should have said, "Well, what the hell would you call it?" By asking to be allowed to marry, they gave straight people the power to decide. It is better to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission ( but don't try that at home with your parents, boys and girls ) ;)

238 days ago | Tagged As: They have the majority
- Pineapple(1360) Disputed
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1 point  

Forgiveness for what?

We do want the same rights, and that's what we asked for. But we got civil unions, which is a second class solution.

So pushing for marriage rights was the solution. By settling for anythig less, the LGBT community is letting straight people stand above us.

And the aren't: were equal.

237 days ago | Tagged As: They shouldn't have a say
Vote Up Vote Down
1 point  

My whole view on this is that gays can do whatever the hell they want. They can have civil unions, get married, etc, but I have always preferred it to stay out of a religious ceremony. I'm not against some new religion that allows it (hint hint lol), but Christianity is so against it and always has been. There's no point in trying to get it because the church will never back down... like ever.

235 days ago | Tagged As: They have the majority
Vote Up Vote Down
1 point  

Straight people shouldn't have a say in what a gay couple decides to call their union. But they do.

End of story.

229 days ago | Tagged As: They have the majority

There is no way any straight person should have a say on what we call our ceremonies. When two people are joined together by a minister or a Justice of the Peace they take their vows and are married. It's no different in the straight world and I make no distinction on what they are called so why should they? It's my business and my wedding and I'll call myself married if I want to whether you like it or not. I'm trying to make this mean something serious and not minimize it in any way. It seems to me that straights wish to minimize our rituals and rites of passage while enjoying the same names themselves. If they can chip away at it, it means less and I'm not having it...are you?

238 days ago | Tagged As: They shouldn't have a say
- ThePyg(3446) Disputed
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1 point  

Well, I want to refute you on your statement.

The good book says no sex without the purpose of having a baby. and since the "good book" also encourages a strong family, it says that you can't have sex until you're married because you must procreate with the intention of raising a healthy child.

Since gays can not procreate, gay marriage doesn't exist in the bible. And, since gays can't procreate, gay sex is considered a sin. When it comes to marriage and sex, that's what the "good book" says.

238 days ago | Tagged As: They have the majority
- Argento(432) Disputed
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1 point  

I've always wondered...

What does the "good book" and the church have to say about sterile couples?

.

Since sterile couples cannot procreate, marriage between sterile couples doesn't exist in the bible. And since sterile people can't procreate, sex between sterile people is a sin. When it comes to marriage and sex, that's what the "good book" says.

So the union between two sterile people shouldn't be called "marriage" and the church should refuse to perform the service...

Right?

238 days ago | Tagged As: They shouldn't have a say
Vote Up Vote Down
1 point  

Hi Pyggy! While I do understand where you're coming from with you dispute I just want to say that even though we cannot procreate in the real sense of the word we can have children by other ways and means. Perhaps I used the phrase too loosely...sorry!

237 days ago | Tagged As: They shouldn't have a say
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2 points

First of all, I personally could care less about what the so called good book has to say one way or the other. Spare me your imaginary playmate in the sky. Secondly, gay folks pay taxes just the same (probably more) as straight people. And thirdly, I couldn't care less what straight people think about gay people. Most times they wouldn't know a gay person if they were bitten on the butt by one. Fourth: Straight people should have absolutely no say in the matter whatsoever. I don't get to vote on whether they should be married, why should they vote on whether I should be married to the partner of my choice. The whole notion that they have a vote is totally absurd and one day everyone will look back on it and agree. President Obama included.

237 days ago | Tagged As: They shouldn't have a say
- iamdavidh(2002) Supported
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1 point  

First of all, I personally could care less about what the so called good book has to say one way or the other. Spare me your imaginary playmate in the sky.

lol, well said, up vote.

And I don't want people to get us confused. I'm David, from LV, and I have no idea what my astrological sign is.

235 days ago | Tagged As: They shouldn't have a say
Vote Up Vote Down
1 point  

Letting this be a referendum issue allows the tyranny of the majority to continue depriving rights from a minority, which is wrong.

238 days ago | Tagged As: They shouldn't have a say
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0 points

Marriage = Religious

And so whatever religion one prescribes to should have the say,

Now I have no idea what the sexual orientation of any religion would be (though I think they're all gay, get it, punny stuff)

but I'm completely baffled as to why a bunch of gay people have not yet come together to form their own religion, in which marriage between gays is considered part of their "religious" freedom, and hence protected by our constitution under freedom of religion.

At any rate, as pyg said on the other side, government has no business in marriage; just as I, you, Rev whatever, Pastor whoever, Father whatshisname should have no say in what two consenting adults want to do, and what ceremonies they want to play dress-up for.

But as long as gov. does decide to take it upon itself to get all in everyone's business, they should allow everyone to have equal business going on, regardless of their personal tastes.

237 days ago | Tagged As: They shouldn't have a say
- Banshee(242) Disputed
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0 points

Marriage is not just a religious institution; it's a civil institution regulated by the State. One's religious freedoms exist only to the extent that they are not, and cannot be, circumscribed by law.

"Religious freedom" is not carte blanche. You cannot legally murder people or perform "human sacrifices" in the name your religion. You cannot take illegal drugs in the name of your religion. And you can't get legal recognition for a purely religious marriage unless the State endorses it, either.

Polygamous marriages are not allowed by law, and it doesn't matter if you belong to a religious sect that thinks otherwise. Child marriage is not allowed by law, and again, it doesn't matter if you belong to a religious sect that thinks otherwise. You still have no legal right to form those types of marriages and there is no Constitutional protection to do so.

Because marriage IS a civil institution regulated by the State, the particulars of its regulation MUST go through state legal processes (e.g., legislative proposals and court decisions). It doesn't even particularly matter whether we like that process, because it is simply not possible to hand over the powers of state and national sovereignty in that fashion -- and to whom would the powers of sovereignty be handed? "The gay community"? What governing body speaks for them? Are gay people and straight people now to be subjected to entirely different governments? Should we also have separate governments for men and women, or for people of different races? It seems clear that that's absurd, and would fundamentally unravel our political process and our state and federal governments.

I personally support gay marriage, and I support the democratic process of government. You don't like what the government is doing, that's great -- vote, protest, and engage in political and social processes to encourage a change in law.

We've tried "separate but equal", and we all know how that worked out. If "separate but equal" was insufficient to address racial discrimination, and is an insufficient expression of the rights of gay people to form "marriages" or "civil unions", how could "separate" governing bodies or voting rights formed solely in order to make decisions for minority members of society possibly do us any good?

236 days ago | Tagged As: They have the majority
- iamdavidh(2002) Disputed
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0 points

Marriage is a religious institution... it was made up by religion.

You either don't understand my arguement, or you're misinformed

Just because there are laws around the institution, does not magically make it not religious anymore.

I mean, your arguement is basically describing what marriage is, and that's fine.

But what does that have to do with my arguement?

Okay, so this is the process now. What? I'm not allowed to disagree with the process?

Argue my points, don't just throw back procedures and make week comparisons.

Gay marriage is nothing like polygamy, incest, murder, etc.

And the reason these things aren't protected under religious freedoms is because they interfere with others rights.

Two consenting adults being married does not interfere with anyone's rights.

236 days ago | Tagged As: They shouldn't have a say
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