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 Why atheists can't be libertarians (25)

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Swashbuckler(62) pic



Why atheists can't be libertarians

If one is an atheist, and believe there is no objective right beyond the whims of individual men, or "might makes right", then they cannot be a libertarian or believe that there's anything inherently wrong with wealth redistribution or taxation.

Because right and wrong have no meaning beyond what those in power decide, therefore state socialism is no more "wrong" than libertarianism and individual rights if those in power decide to make it right.
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Because right and wrong have no meaning beyond what those in power decide

Nope.

2 points

Why exactly can't atheists be libertarians? I am reading some pretty interesting....stuff that you are trying to suggest but the only thing it's showing is you don't really know what an Atheist is.

Because right and wrong have no meaning beyond what those in power decide,

To quote pirate....Nope.

Swashbuckler(62) Disputed
1 point

Then you're not an atheist. Since from a materialistic perspective, right and wrong mean nothing beyond whether or not they serve a means to an end.

You can't for example say there's any objective 'moral' right to free speech, it only exists as a right if one has the might to make it so.

Mint_tea(4641) Disputed
1 point

I already know that I'm not an atheist. Do you know what an atheist actually is though?

1 point

Materialism: the philosophical position that matter and energy are the fundamental substances of nature, and that all phenomena are thereby a result of the interactions thereof.

We have proven that matter and energy are the fundamental substances of nature. Does this mean we can't have morals? Absolutely not.

Morals: the distinctions between right and wrong behaviours.

Do I have distinctions between right and wrong? Yes, I do.

Objective: not influenced by personal feelings or opinions.

Are Christian morals influenced by personal feelings and opinions? Yes they are: the opinion that the bible is Godly, and the personal feeling that it should be taken seriously. Are atheist morals influenced by personal feelings or beliefs? Yes, they are.

Objective morality does not exist. It is a misnomer.

You choose to believe that a two thousand year old figure spoke moral facts given down by an omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent God that you have absolutely no evidence for. That is a personal choice, a chosen belief, a feeling. You have no better justification for morality than I do.

I would argue your justifications are worse: "because the collection of shepherds' sayings, compiled and chosen by genocidal post-Romans, told me to do it" is not a better reason than "I have considered it empathetically, logically and motivationally, and decided it is so".

1 point

I AM an Atheist, and I agree with Pirateelfdog AND Mint tea. Funny, YOU don't seem to have any idea what an Atheist believes.

NEWS FLASH! You can't group us together as you'd like to! The people you can group together are the people who need others to think for them, It's easy to follow someone that will say what you want to hear, THEN you can group up ... like a Libertarian. WE ALL have different opinions on MANY things! Like .... I say, "Why would I WANT to be a Libertarian?" I agree with a few Libertarian things, but, MOST of them, even the ones I think would be "nice", are mostly impractical or "WAY out there"! Then I say: "Why would I want to be a Christian ... or a Muslim, .... or a Jew?? THEY don't say anything I want to follow either. I'd rather think for myself! Not believing in a god does NOT make you a hater or into genocide. I don't believe in "God" because "believing in a cruel "god" makes a cruel man!"

Those in "power" right now are worse, and more dangerous than even "God"!

1 point

It looks like you are assuming atheists have given up, or are incapable of holding any moral principles because they don't believe in a god or afterlife, or maybe I'm just being presumptive.

luckin(175) Clarified
2 points

I think it would be more reasonable to say that atheists can have moral principles, they just can't justify them outside of God

1 point

just testing sorry, not able to find a way to delete this message :)

1 point

Or, they can't be Libertarians because believing everyone should just get what they can pay for themselves is a greedy and ugly way to run society and they're better people than that.

Hey, there are factions within the Libertarian Party which have called for private ownership of nuclear weapons, the Navy, all schooling, all healthcare. There are members who would stop building roads and bridges just because it's not a road or bridge they ever consider using themselves.

Once you stop making your decisions solely because god told you what to do and start thinking instead about living in a society you will see that life isn't as simple as a political ideology. Life is a balance, society is a balance, and all you folks who smear whomever disagrees with your ideology are simply poisoning society, not making it any stronger.

Swashbuckler(62) Disputed
1 point

Greed and ugliness go hand in hand with atheism, so the only way they could be better than that is if they aren't truly atheists and believe in an objectively greater good than greed and materialism.

Corporatistic libertarianism is a degenerate atheist ideology adhered to by atheistic degenerates such as Ayn Rand.

Grenache(6053) Disputed
1 point

Really? Because clearly you're a believer, yet when I click on your profile and look at the balance of your debate work over the last six days since you joined it's pretty ugly. By your own theory you should be an atheist then.