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Debate Score:23
Arguments:16
Total Votes:25
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GuitaristDog(2546) pic



Why do people view big government like this?

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4 points

That's an insult to unicorns everywhere! Down with government!

Don't forget rainbows, fairies and other magical creatures such as Buckbeak from Harry Potter.

1 point

Self regulation is the last part of the brain to develop (frontal lobe). Being able to self govern requires a well developed fore brain which is not always possible. Therefore, the idea or concept of individual sovereignty is lost, the concept of individual responsibility, long term decision making and reasoning ability. If a person doesn't have these abilities, they must 'outsource' them to something else; anything else.

These days, it's the government, and their power is granted to them by the consent, habituation, indifference of the people. (boetie)

Outsourcing governance from the self to the state.

The concept of "if I work hard enough, I can accomplish" is lost in a welfare state. (bastiat)

1 point

Because the world is hard and daddy gov'munt promises to make it awww betturrr.

Seriously though, what has happened is a large amount of historical revision and disinformation by the government to make it appear as though quality of life rose along with the expansion of the state. But hey, that's just what happens when you allow education to be controlled by the very people who have the most to gain from lying.

To be fair, most people twist facts to make themselves look better when they write their autobiographies. The problem comes when we forget that The government is composed of people, not Gods.

1 point

I don't think people (at least rational people) view government like this. I am a Communist and I am completely aware of the flaws of government, and that it is easily susceptible to negative human influence. That being said, I also recognize that government can also be a catalyst for change which otherwise could not be accomplished, and allows the voice of the "little guy" so to speak, be heard. I think that most people in the world are mostly aware that Utopia is not possible in actual reality. But I will keep it simple for you:

Would you rather have America as the way it is, or an America without government?

0 points

It is because most people don't understand that there is no such thing as world peace.

They believe that the government can solve everything and that without it we go into anarchy....

to some extent that is true because one of the original purposes of government was to establish order....

However, the government was not intended to meddle much in public affairs so that the people were free.

But, the thing is this, the Constitution was grounded in Christian morals and without them the nation cannot stand. Regardless of whether you are Christians or not, you must still abide by good morals to allow this nation to succeed.

This has not happened. The nation fell apart as the nation's morals went through the window and now the government is hard pressed to make sure everyone is safe and okay (peace).

People depend on the government and believe that they can create a peace that will not come.

logicsoup(39) Disputed
1 point

Wow. Your argument has more plot holes than a Michael Bay movie, and the logical reasoning of a middle schooler who thinks he knows politics based on his parents beliefs. Very well let us begin

"It is because most people don't understand that there is no such thing as world peace."

I think most people understand that there is no such thing as world, peace because world peace has not yet been achieved, therefore it would be impossible to not understand it? I didn't know that you were an omnipotent all powerful being who knew the minds of "most people". Thank you for your enlightenment oh powerful one.

"They believe that the government can solve everything and that without it we go into anarchy....

to some extent that is true because one of the original purposes of government was to establish order....

However, the government was not intended to meddle much in public affairs so that the people were free."

Merriam-Webster defines Anarchy as An absence of government Its not that people believe that without government we go into anarchy, it is that without government it IS an anarchy, no ifs, ands, or buts, about it. Your statement about the role government was supposed to play is extremely broad, and really it depends on what you define as "public affairs". Im glad that you recognize that the government was founded to establish order, however I'm a little confused as to how establishing order wouldn't be considered meddling in public affairs? If public affairs under anarchism meant everyone was stealing from each other, and the government was created to prevent that kind of chaos, how is that not meddling in public affairs? And yes, while I'm sure that the government was not necessarily created to "meddle" in public affairs such as health care or whatnot, the constitution was document written in 1787, do you really expect that government wouldn't fluctuate to the needs of whatever the current time was? Slavery was completely legal in that time as well, and the time came where people realized that slavery needed to be abolished, and it was. My point being, unless the constitution explicitly declares "The government shall not intervene in X and Y" who are you to say what the government of that time intended to do or not? The Intention of the government as written in the constitution is to "establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity" Did they say how that should be carried out? Absolutely not. The founding fathers were intelligent enough to understand that times would change, and in Article 1 section 8, lay out the "Necessary and Proper" clause which gives power to Congress "To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper". This speaks for its self.

"But, the thing is this, the Constitution was grounded in Christian morals and without them the nation cannot stand."

Haha you sounds as ignorant as my indoctrinated private school peers. You speak of the Constitution, but no where in the constitution do I see any mention of the word "Holy Bible" Or "Jesus Christ". Sure there are talks of "God" but really just how broad is the term "God"? A very broad term. If Jesus Christ was mentioned, that would certainly give that argument some more credibility,but there is no mention of Jesus Christ anywhere. And if you have done your proper research, you would be aware that a large majority of the founding fathers were Deists (The belief in God, but he stays out of human affairs). Now I am not saying that all of the founding fathers were Deist, but it would be foolish and ignorant to claim that the constitution is a christian document, when christianity isn't even mentioned in it. Further proof of America not being a Christian nation can be found in the First Amendment of the United States, which I will trust you are familiar with, but in case not, it lays out the foundations for freedom of religion i.e the separation of church and state. More proof can be found in a little document called the Treaty of Tripoli. Written under the presidency of George Washington, and signed by John Adams during his presidency, it states "the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion." Convinced yet?

"Regardless of whether you are Christians or not, you must still abide by good morals to allow this nation to succeed."

Im sorry, I wasn't aware that Christians were the only one with good morals.

"This has not happened. The nation fell apart as the nation's morals went through the window and now the government is hard pressed to make sure everyone is safe and okay"

Please clarify on the exact morals that have as you say "went through the window\". And is not the governments job to "establish Justice,[and] insure domestic Tranquility"? Come on now you are just being ridiculous.

"People depend on the government and believe that they can create a peace that will not come."

Once again, people depend on the government to do what it was designed to do first and foremost. If you can not recognize that, I honestly don't know what more I can say to you.

lolzors93(3225) Disputed
2 points

1) Actually, I can name a multitude of people who believe in world peace.

2) That is why I said "without IT (being government) we go into anarchy." I know what anarchy is without using the dictionary. You have heard of Adam Smith's theory about the role of government? I said, "not intended to meddle MUCH in public affairs." You still have made no argument.

3) “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” - John Adams

Are you to deny this? I didn't say that it was founded on Christianity (even though it was) because thats another argument. My argument is that it is founded on Christian MORALS.

4) It is morally and ethically correct to be independent. If you rely on some one else to do work for you while you do nothing, that is morally incorrect.

5) Are you trolling me?

lolzors93(3225) Disputed
1 point

I do, however, see how the anarchy thing might be confusing... so I'm sorry!