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Arguments:177
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Why has evolution not been proven yet?

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20 points

What do you mean by proven?

It has been proven, better than almost any theory in any subject. It is backed up by evidence in embryology, archeology, geology, and numerous different fields of biology, including genetics.

I am going to assume that you are referring to the fact that evolution is a scientific theory. In science, theories aren't proven. Theories are akin to explanations, not guesses. For example, the theory of gravitation is the explanation of how gravity works. We can see gravity, measure gravity, and we explain this through the theory. Evolution is the same way: we see evolution occurring today, we have tons of evidence for evolution that happened in the past through fossils, and we explain this through the theory.

If there was a way to prove a theory, evolution would have met that burden of proof, however, in science there is no way to "prove" a theory.

Irrefutable Arguments for Evolution

5 years ago | Side: It is proven
1 point

I am going to assume that you are referring to the fact that evolution is a scientific theory. In science, theories aren't proven. Theories are akin to explanations, not guesses. For example, the theory of gravitation is the explanation of how gravity works.

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2 years ago
1 point

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2 years ago
1 point

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2 years ago
G0m3r347(1) Disputed
1 point

Evolution isn't a theory. It's a verified fact. Evolution can and has been demonstrated in the lab repeatedly. All evolution is change in any given system (biological or not) over time in direct response to external forces. Speciation is a theory. We have yet to to find a verifiable and credible example of speciation (one species becoming another). Every time a researcher thought they found one after careful examination they found it to be misidentification or errors in their process. So far we have yet to see one species become another in the lab.

1 year ago
1 point

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1 point

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1 year ago
ptosis(242) Disputed
-1 points

A theory means it hasn't been proven - that's why it's called a theory. I'm not disputing the theory just your answer that a theory is proof becuase it's not. Can't prove it like a math proof.

BTW the gravity example is kinda funny since we don't even have a Theory of Everything - The unification of the electroweak, strong nuclear and gravitational forces in two generic forces.

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3 years ago | Side: theory
8 points

Well when speaking about evolution you have both the fact and the theory.

The theory (which as you said cannot be proven in the same way mathematical proofs can't be proven) is about how life changes over long periods of time.

Individual instances of observed evolution though, are facts. In this sense evolution is both fact and theory.

3 years ago | Side: It is proven
4 points

"BTW the gravity example is kinda funny since we don't even have a Theory of Everything"

If there was a theory of everything, I'm sure there would still be people complaining about it, since it's a "Theory of Everything," rather than a "Proof of Everything."

3 years ago | Side: It is proven
Bohemian(3464) Disputed
1 point

A theory means it hasn't been proven

Please explain to me Germ theory, then.

2 years ago
5 points

Science has already proven. Only religious people are not quite convinced.

3 years ago | Side: It is proven
4 points

Evolution has been proven to the extent anything can be proven.

If you try hard enough you can disprove anything - the pen in front of you, isn't really a pen, but just your senses being trick. You're not actually in the place you think you are, you are actually on the moon - the government drugged you and flew you in a rocket and has now placed you in a fake version of your room. You didn't feel woozy waking up? New high-tech drug. You actually went outside your house 5 minutes ago? Stimulation.

What creationists do is they fight logic with faith. Basically, they cover their ears with their hands and shouted "la, la, la, not listening. The Bible is right". They either ignore evidence, and say there is no real proof, or they say that they should just trust in God and stop questioning him.

Evolution has been proven. Undoubtably so. The Genome Project, where they mapped out the human DNA, only provided more evidence.

4 years ago
canteenkenny(62) Disputed
1 point

Actually, you are incorrect. No matter how solid a believer any scientist is in evolution, not reputable scientist would say it is proven, because it is not provable (short of using a time machine), it is a theory.

One major argument against Darwin's THEORY, is the adamant refusal of some scientists to consider any other possible explanation. There is absolutely no other area of scientific discussion where discussion is closed. It reminds me of the stories we heard in school of scientists who were hanged, burned, stoned for the suggestion that the world is round.

Darwin proposed that, essentially, all of life has a common ancestor, and that gradual changes over large periods of time led to the variety of life as we know it. Ok, lets go with that. Then we find that the fossil record (primarily the Cambrian) shows that, rather than a long slow process of fossil change, species burst onto the scene fully formed. So, we need a new theory. Now we have "punctuated equilibrium", the theory that rather than Darwin's long slow process, we have a long process with quick bursts of change. And this is one of many revisions in the THEORY of evolution.

Note the necessary word theory. New evidence continually causes the need to revise what you and other evolutionists call an established fact. You can't have it both ways.

Sorry, it is not faith that disagrees with you. It is reason and science.

2 years ago
imrigone(767) Disputed
3 points

No matter how solid a believer any scientist is in evolution, not reputable scientist would say it is proven, because it is not provable (short of using a time machine), it is a theory.

You are sort of right, but for the completely wrong reason. While it is true that theories will not ever be considered to be proven, this is not the definition of a scientific theory. In science, the differentiation between fact/law and theory/hypothesis is that a fact is a description of a recorded event that always repeats itself in the same situations. A theory tells us WHY that happens. This does involve some degree of extrapolation, and theories are limited by known evidence. As a result, since we know we don't know everything, a theory must be considered unproven until such a time when we definitively know everything there is to know (which is not likely to ever happen). Further, in most cases (and evolution is one of these case) the theory is created to DESCRIBE A FACT. Gravity is a law, the theory of gravity is an attempt to figure out why gravity happens, how it works. The same goes with evolution. By modern understandings, evolution is the variation of allele frequencies within and between populations over time. This variation is fact, observed countless times. The theory of evolution (which is really the Theory of Natural Selection) is an attempt to explain WHY this happens. After over 150 years of intense, regular and heavily scrutinized research, natural selection has easily trumped all competing hypotheses by fitting nicely with all of the data we have discovered so far. Evolution/Natural Selection is one of strongest scientific theories ever conceived, stronger than atomic theory (the basis for most chemistry and nuclear physics. We actually realize that atomic theory is at least partially wrong, unlike evolution, but it still provides an adequate model for continuing our research and making products based around it. And Evolution is much more supported than Atomic Theory.)

One major argument against Darwin's THEORY....

Hold on a second. Its not just Darwin's theory anymore. Literally thousands of researches had added to the theory in the past 150 years. Our current understanding of evolution is exponentially greater than what Darwin discovered. His writings on the subject are now like a 3rd grade math class compared to a College Calculus Class. He wasn't even the first to propose the basic theory of natural selection, he was just the first to get famous doing it. Continuing on...

One major argument against Darwin's THEORY, is the adamant refusal of some scientists to consider any other possible explanation.

Even if this were true, which it isn't, this wouldn't be an argument against the theory itself but against the scientific community. The theory itself would be true or false regardless of the scientific community's reaction to it or competing theories. Basic logic.

And yes, the other possibilities have been entertained, but found lacking in the face of available data. Creationists aren't being blackballed because they believe in God. They are being ignored because that they propose that all current life was created simultaneously and in its current form. But this idea is not supported by any available evidence, in fact it is refuted by a nearly infinite stream of evidence from every major scientific field. If God does exist, then all of the evidence in the world around us shows that he used evolution/natural selection to sculpt the current variety of life found.

Darwin proposed that, essentially, all of life has a common ancestor

Actually, we are fairly sure that that was probably not the case anymore. Archea, Eukaryotes and Prokaryotes seem to have emerged from multiple cases of abiogenesis, and unraveling the exact lineage is quite difficult. We don't claim that Darwin was right about every little detail. But he does appear to be right about natural selection, which would happen regardless of how many ancestors current life had.

Then we find that the fossil record (primarily the Cambrian) shows that, rather than a long slow process of fossil change, species burst onto the scene fully formed.

Untrue. What we saw was a sudden increase in the diversification of life, and these things were not fully formed. Within the Cambrian itself, we have a period of over 250 million years to work with. That IS quicker than what we are used to seeing in evolution considering the extent of the diversity in question, but hardly sudden. Further, in the past few decades we have found fossils of closely related ancestors preceding the Cambrian by over 70 million years. Not exactly over night.

So, we need a new theory

Wrong. Punctuated evolution is not a competing theory, it is a part of the overall theory. It helps us better understand the "boundaries" of evolutionary timing. Punctuated evolution is no more mutually exclusive with Natural selection than walking is mutually exclusive with driving, or flying, as a viable means of traveling 20 miles. No matter what method you take, the distance traveled is the same, and so is the scenery when you get there. The only difference is how long it takes. We already know that environmental conditions were massively different during the CE than before or after it. Since Natural Selection is dependent on environmental factors, it makes perfect sense that the timing could be altered. The "slow, gradual" evolution is basically just an overall average that compares the amount of changes within the time involved. But in smaller increments, this timing can change substantially.

Note the necessary word theory.

Not until you learn what a "Scientific Theory" IS. Which is probably the first or second thing you should be knowledgeable about BEFORE discussing a scientific topic.

New evidence continually causes the need to revise what you and other evolutionists call an established fact. You can't have it both ways.

We aren't trying to have it both ways. When new evidence comes along, we alter our assertions. Its how a rational being would solve any problem, and it is the life blood of scientific inquiry.

It is reason and science (that disagrees with us).

Try again when you've learned a little something about reason and science :)

2 years ago
Bohemian(3464) Disputed
1 point

Actually, you are incorrect. No matter how solid a believer any scientist is in evolution, not reputable scientist would say it is proven.

Yes, but this has more to do with the nature of science than it does with the certainty of Evolutionary theory. Theories are not proven. Proof is not a scientific concept. Proof applies only to math, logic, and Jurisprudence. No credible scientist would say that any explanation has been proven, including those which we can demonstrated beyond all reasonable doubt.

Most nearly what you mean to say is that Evolutionary theory is not falsifiable, but it has been subject to various tests which given a certain outcome would undermine the credibility of the Theory. So it is quite falsifiable. Many fossils have been discovered because scientists knew where to look based on predictions from the Theory of Evolution. The Titaalik for example. On the other hand if one were to find a giraffe or squirrel fossil in pre-cambrian rock this would undermine the Theory of Evolution, as it so happens no one has found this. There is a distinct order in which extinct fauna appear in the fossil record.

Ok, lets go with that. Then we find that the fossil record (primarily the Cambrian) shows that, rather than a long slow process of fossil change, species burst onto the scene fully formed.

Well, I really wouldn't call 80 million years "bursting" onto the scene. 80 million years is fast by evolutionary terms but it is still a very long time. The Cambrian explosion is nothing more than a period of rapid diversification, and while scientists have struggled to explain the cause of this rapid diversification, it doesn't exactly fit within the creationist framework either and perhaps even less so. The creationist might have difficulty explaining how over a period of 80 million years species are diversifying at all without appealing to evolutionary mechanisms. Furthermore the creatures that came about as a result of the Cambrian Explosion were nearly all sea creatures unlike anything alive today and most of which are now extinct. (see link below)

Cambrian critters:

http://astrobio.net/albums/origins/agb.jpg

To say they came about "fully-formed" is is somewhat deceptive. It assumes that there are partially formed species, which of course there aren't, and this is not the way that evolution works anyway. There is no goal, no intent, and no ending point to evolutionary forms. Every species is independently capable of surviving in it's particular niche, and if it's not then it goes extinct.

And this is one of many revisions in the THEORY of evolution.

It's more of a refinement than a revision, the same mechanisms still apply but the overall picture is a little different. Science is a self-correcting process which serves only to become more accurate over time.

2 years ago
3 points

The fact is that evolution is a complex subject that with as many back ups will still need a support. Besides, every non believer disputes over the minutest flaws.

Evolution is in a lot of bits. It has believers that accept these evidences quite well. And others who just don't!

3 years ago
2 points

because evolution is slow historical process. It takes scale number of ages and we can't notice it. Be honest, I think that no one knows answer, it is not a fact that evolution has been. But they say that it was, by historical antropolgy sighns. For example, we all know that in south Africa, there were found a skeleton of one monkey type which was close to humans, the skeleton which found was named as "Lucy". After some scientistic tests, they found an answer that it was the very first type of people look a like as monkey. They prove that, from this type of monkey nowadays human was developed. But there is no fact that evolution was at all! We will never get the answer. But from Darwin theory I knew that before death, he said that there is no evolution, everything was created by God!

2 years ago | Side: theory
2 points

But from Darwin theory I knew that before death, he said that there is no evolution, everything was created by God!

Psst...

With Moody's encouragement, Lady Hope's story was printed in the Boston _Watchman Examiner_. The story spread, and the claims were republished as late as October 1955 in the _Reformation Review_ and in the _Monthly Record of the Free Church of Scotland_ in February 1957. These attempts to fudge Darwin's story had already been exposed for what they were, first by his daughter Henrietta after they had been revived in 1922. "I was present at his deathbed," she wrote in the _Christian_ for February 23, 1922. "Lady Hope was not present during his last illness, or any illness. I believe he never even saw her, but in any case she had no influence over him in any department of thought or belief. He never recanted any of his scientific views, either then or earlier. We think the story of his conversion was fabricated in the U.S.A. . . . The whole story has no foundation whatever."' (Ellipsis is in the book)

http://www.ediacara.org/hope.html

2 years ago

The very title of this debate is wrong, it has been proven.

2 years ago
1 point

Same reason why Gravity wasn't proven.

we don't actually see it before us. We can't show hardcore, in your face evidence that Gravity is happening, but we figure "i'm still on the ground, so gravity must be happening".

Evolution, also, still has plenty of holes and many unanswered questions, but the basis of it can be agreed upon everyone that it is true.

5 years ago | Side: Like Gravity
xaeon(1069) Disputed
6 points

"Evolution, also, still has plenty of holes and many unanswered questions..."

None that I know of. I think these unanswered questions came from a lack of specific knowledge. I'd be happy to fill you in on your knowledge gaps if you wish. Where are the holes you speak of?

5 years ago
ThePyg(6743) Disputed
2 points

missing links, how life started (which still hasn't actually been answered yet), yadda yadda.

5 years ago | Side: Like Gravity
lawnman(1104) Disputed
1 point

It's the lawnman again,

What is to be understood as being evidence of the theory of evolution. And please do not assume the conclusion of the argument in the premise for that is the fallacy of petitio principii.

5 years ago
1 point

Which holes and unanswered questions would you be referring to?

5 years ago | Side: It is proven
ThePyg(6743) Disputed
1 point

mainly the missing links.

5 years ago | Side: Like Gravity
THETRUTH88(25) Disputed
1 point

I think that it is very sad that people believe evolution. all it is saying is that there is no God and I don't have to follow any rules. What if you are taking a chance at not going to heaven? It really is sad.

4 years ago | Side: because Evolutionists don't have proof
1 point

As far as I'm concerned, it has been.

3 years ago

Evolution has been proven, scientists are just wishy-washy and don't like calling all theories 'laws' until hundreds of years after they are proven for a fact. They're assholes that way. That's why they didn't let Sir Issac Newton's Laws become laws until a really long time after he died.

3 years ago

Now if we came from moneys and apes....and evolved into what we are today......how do you explain the monkey and apes in our zoos and in the wild?

3 years ago
casper3912(1553) Disputed
4 points

Its not a magical transformation.

A literal monkey doesn't become a literal man.

Even if they did then perhaps not all monkeys would become men.

Rather both monkeys and man have a common ancestor from which they both descend.

The differences between them came about though different adaptations to different environments.

3 years ago
1 point

Isn't it proven yet? Maybe some aspect of evolution is already resolved. But I do agree that it is not yet proven 100% because evolution is a very complex topic. I enjoyed this discussion. Thanks!

Andy @ Rank and Pillage

3 years ago

Evolution is not fact but rather fiction. It is based on the principle of drawing a straight line through random dots. If A exist and G exist then the conclusion must be Z. The rest of the letters aren't important and so they are discarded. Critical thinking at its best.

If apes exist, why not cavemen? Dinosaurs died off and apes live on. Atheist claim miracles don't happen but wish for one (evolution).

3 years ago | Side: It is a lie

We have seen it happen, in bacteria. The only reason it's not considered a fact is that the creationist all was complain about it.

3 years ago | Side: It is proven
1 point

Yes, in bacteria only it happens but if we can extend upto the perfection they can be good!

smoke deter

2 years ago
1 point

It has not been proven. When people dig up bones and skeletons, they don't have a label on them saying where they came from, who's they were, or how old they are.

Only humans can think of that.

3 years ago | Side: theory

Quite frankly it has been. Whether it is the true and only way that humans have evolved I am not completely sure. In fact I am a tad skeptical though that is a subject for another day should it arise.

3 years ago | Side: It is proven

Regardless of my or others opinions evolution has not been proven. It is merely a theory for a reason. "The reason for this is that science does not deal in absolute proof, only in the balance of the evidence." However much some do not want to believe science does not in fact deal with absolute proof, a theory could be proven wrong or right by new discoveries therefore no theory can be irrefutable.

Source:

http://www.ebonmusings.org/evolution/proven.html

3 years ago
1 point

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smoke deter

2 years ago
1 point

As far as I'm concerned, it has been... the cheetah and gazelle alone is enough proof for me.

2 years ago
1 point

I say evolution makes more sense then adam and eve. I beleive in science. facts are facts. and science is is trying to tell us the truth. We should listen. the bible is just an idea. i'm not saying its right or wrong.But I will say (anything is possible) all you closed minded people seem to forget that

2 years ago
1 point

If evolution is proved should we have run out of monkeys by now ? Some of you think we evolved from monkeys when we really didnt

Question: "What does the Bible say about Creation vs. evolution?"

Answer: It is not the purpose of this answer to present a scientific argument in the creation vs. evolution debate. For scientific arguments for creation and/or against evolution, we highly recommend Answers in Genesis and the Institute for Creation Research. The purpose of this article is to explain why, according to the Bible, the creation vs. evolution debate even exists. Romans 1:25 declares, “They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.”

A key factor in the debate is that the majority of scientists who believe in evolution are also atheists or agnostics. There are some who hold to some form of theistic evolution and others who take a deistic view of God (God exists but is not involved in the world, and everything proceeds along a natural course). There are some who genuinely and honestly look at the data and arrive at the conclusion that evolution better fits with the data. However, these represent an insignificant percentage of the scientists who advocate evolution. The vast majority of evolutionary scientists hold that life evolved entirely without any intervention of a higher being. Evolution is by definition a naturalistic science.

For atheism to be true, there must be an alternate explanation—other than a Creator—for how the universe and life came into existence. Although belief in some form of evolution predated Charles Darwin, he was the first to develop a plausible model for the process of evolution—natural selection. Darwin once identified himself as a Christian but as a result of some tragedies that took place in his life, he later renounced the Christian faith and the existence of God. Evolution was invented by an atheist. Darwin's goal was not to disprove God's existence, but that is one of the end results of the theory of evolution. Evolution is an enabler of atheism. Evolutionary scientists likely would not admit that their goal is to give an alternate explanation of the origins of life, and thereby to give a foundation for atheism, but according to the Bible, that is exactly why the theory of evolution exists.

The Bible tells us, “The fool says in his heart, 'There is no God'” (Psalm 14:1; 53:1). The Bible also proclaims that people are without excuse for not believing in a Creator God. “For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—His eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse” (Romans 1:20). According to the Bible, anyone who denies the existence of God is a fool. Why, then, are so many people, including some Christians, willing to accept that evolutionary scientists are unbiased interpreters of scientific data? According to the Bible, they are all fools! Foolishness does not imply a lack of intelligence. Most evolutionary scientists are brilliant intellectually. Foolishness indicates an inability to properly apply knowledge. Proverbs 1:7 tells us, “The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and discipline.”

Evolutionary scientists mock creation and/or intelligent design as unscientific and not worthy of scientific examination. In order for something to be considered a “science,” they argue, it must be able to be observed and tested; it must be “naturalistic.” Creation is by definition “supernatural.” God and the supernatural cannot be observed or tested (so the argument goes); therefore, creation and/or intelligent design cannot be considered science. Of course, neither can evolution be observed or tested, but that does not seem to be an issue with evolutionists. As a result, all data is filtered through the preconceived, presupposed, and pre-accepted theory of evolution, without alternate explanations being considered.

However, the origin of the universe and the origin of life cannot be tested or observed. Both creation and evolution are faith-based systems in regards to origins. Neither can be tested because we cannot go back billions (or thousands) of years to observe the origin of the universe or of life in the universe. Evolutionary scientists reject creation on grounds that would logically force them to also reject evolution as a scientific explanation of origins. Evolution, at least in regard to origins, does not fit the definition of “science” any more than creation does. Evolution is supposedly the only explanation of origins that can be tested; therefore, it is the only theory of origins that can be considered “scientific.” This is foolishness! Scientists who advocate evolution are rejecting a plausible theory of origins without even honestly examining its merits, because it does not fit their illogically narrow definition of “science.”

If creation is true, then there is a Creator to whom we are accountable. Evolution is an enabler for atheism. Evolution gives atheists a basis for explaining how life exists apart from a Creator God. Evolution denies the need for a God to be involved in the universe. Evolution is the “creation theory” for the religion of atheism. According to the Bible, the choice is clear. We can believe the Word of our omnipotent and omniscient God, or we can believe the illogically biased, “scientific” explanations of fools.

2 years ago
Bohemian(3464) Disputed
4 points

If evolution is proved should we have run out of monkeys by now ?

Dogs came from domesticated wolves, so why have we not run out of wolves by now?

Obviously because this is not how evolution works. First and foremost humans did not come from monkeys but rather we share a common ancestor with them, an ancestor that is now extinct. Secondly, even if humans did come from monkeys, this does not require that all monkeys become human. Often times one group will split off from a parent group and both will live simultaneously. This is called speciation. The notion that monkeys should be extinct if humans came from monkeys is based on the assumption that evolution is a linear progression, which it is not.

Hopefully this clarifies any misunderstandings.

2 years ago

I think that there are many hints saying that we evolved. But if we actually had evolved why haven't we evolved into something after humans. Things that evolve continue evolving. It is just a theory not a law

2 years ago
1 point

At this point, you don't even need the fossil record to show how evolution is far more plausible and has far more supporting evidence than any other theory in its field. As far as I'm concerned there's thermodynamics, then evolution.

2 years ago | Side: It is proven
1 point

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2 years ago
1 point

What creationists do is they fight logic with faith. Basically, they cover their ears with their hands and shouted "la, la, la, not listening. The Bible is right". They either ignore evidence, and say there is no real proof, or they say that they should just trust in God and stop questioning him.

how to talk dirty

2 years ago
1 point

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2 years ago
1 point

In science, a theory is much like a recipe to make a meal. The recipe tells you which ingredients and tools you need to reproduce the meal and it explains in which order these ingredients are mixed together and manipulated with which tool at what time and for how long to get the final result that the recipe theorizes.

The theory of evolution describes why there is so much diversity between life forms on earth. Darwin didn't dare to state we humans are just a different species of apes at the time, because of the religion's grip on the "civilized" world. However, when DNA was discovered, much of Darwin's theory was proven to be correct, because after comparing DNA of different species of animals it revealed an ancestry.

For instance our DNA is much more like a chimpanzee then a rabbit, however rabbits and humans do share an ancestry as well, meaning all animals having 2 eyes, 2 ears, 2 nostrils and 1 mouth and has 4 limbs and a tail, share an ancestor in the tree of life. If you go back in time you'll see that dinosaurs had the same configuration as today's mammals, so this ancestor lived on earth even before them, meaning we need to look for this "missing link" maybe a half a billion years back, or even further. Finding such a creature is near impossible, however we know it had to exist since equally configured creatures are still here today.

Take a good look into the mirror and realize you are just like any other living creature, the next step in evolution created by a mix your parents DNA. You're not a exact copy of one or the other, but a mutated copy that started it's own branch of mutations. If you reproduce, your children will be a mix of your DNA and of your partner e.g. yet another mutation. If you give it enough time, say 100 million years, that branch may have been evolved into... who knows what, whoever we know thanks to Darwin, we also know that environment and habitat plays a mayor role in which state a species will evolve.

If you try to find a other explanation for this all, the scientific community welcomes you... unless you start with supernatural beings, e.g. God, Allah, Vishnu, Wodan, Zeus, because the "super" natural belongs into the realm of fantasy where you have unicorns, Pegasus, cyclops and the like.

2 years ago
1 point

A "Theory" is the highest, most prestigious title a body of scientific work can be given save a a "law." Evolution is observable and irrefutable.

You would have to be high on at least three different illicit drugs to claim that Evolution is false.

Dang creationist rednecks!

2 years ago
1 point

My biggest issues with evolution are:

1. Why haven't we found any fossils of transitional life forms; if Darwin was correct we should be able to find many examples of this?

2. Why have we not been able to observe one species becoming another?

3. If we all came from a common ancestor, most likely from a single cell organism (I don't see the claim of abiogenesis producing a mammal or anything that complex); at what point did life forms change from asexual reproduction to sexual reproduction? Additionally what selective pressures would cause such a thing?

2 years ago
Bohemian(3464) Disputed
1 point

My biggest issues with evolution are:

1. Why haven't we found any fossils of transitional life forms; if Darwin was correct we should be able to find many examples of this?

We have:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_transitional_fossils

2. Why have we not been able to observe one species becoming another?

We have:

Three-spined stickleback

Hawthorn Fly

Peppered Moth

Fruit fly

Mouflon

Canines speciated from wolves

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-speciation.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speciation#Example_of_three-spined_sticklebacks

3. If we all came from a common ancestor, most likely from a single cell organism (I don't see the claim of abiogenesis producing a mammal or anything that complex); at what point did life forms change from asexual reproduction to sexual reproduction? Additionally what selective pressures would cause such a thing?

We cannot say with certainty exactly at what point this happened, but we do know that certain species are both asexual and sexual and each confers certain advantages and disadvantages.

The advantages of asexual reproduction is that it doesn't require mobility. Asexual organisms can reproduce in great numbers without expending very much energy. Asexual organisms need not wait for a suitable mate. The advantage of sexual reproduction is that it creates greater genetic diversity and thus greater adaptability. Sexually reproduced organisms are not clones and thus detrimental mutations do not pose much danger to the whole population. Most sexual organisms are mobile and do not need to compete with each other for food and space. The selective pressure would most likely be the habitability and stability of the environment, asexual organisms seem to live in places that sexual organisms can't but still require a stable environment as they are slower to adapt, but where the two co-exist sexual organisms tend to sit higher on the food chain.

2 years ago
Apollo(1593) Clarified
1 point

We cannot say with certainty exactly at what point this happened, but we do know that certain species are both asexual and sexual and each confers certain advantages and disadvantages.

I always though of Mitosis/Meiosis to be a very plausible divergence.

2 years ago
WVRN212(41) Disputed
1 point

First of all I would suggest not using Wikipedia as a reference...anyone can post anything on there and it is not peer reviewed.

Secondly we are still seeing species reproducing after their kind...you see variations of species; big dogs, small dogs, furry dogs, furless dogs...but they are still dogs. Mosquitoes are still producing mosquitoes,fish are still producing fish, and flies are still producing flies.

Lastly I don't believe my last question was answered regarding a selective pressure that would cause an asexual organism to reproduce sexually...if it were to happen what are the odds that a male and female of that species to be produced and manage to find each other.

2 years ago
Apollo(1593) Disputed
1 point

1. Why haven't we found any fossils of transitional life forms; if Darwin was correct we should be able to find many examples of this?

2. Why have we not been able to observe one species becoming another?

Bohemian did an excellent job of disproving these.

at what point did life forms change from asexual reproduction to sexual reproduction?

We can say for certain, but the difference between the two is relatively small.

Look up Mitosis and then compare that to Meiosis.

This is the divergence is very plausible.

2 years ago
1 point

It has not been proven because it is a myth .

2 years ago
1 point

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2 years ago

It has not been really proven if half the world says it has and the other says it has not. I think what is really stopping it from being proven is religion. The conflict would arise saying that "you guys do not believe in god" the others would say "you do not believe in logic or the truth" these conflicts and arguments MAY be the reason for evolution not having been proven yet.

2 years ago
1 point

Its not been proven, but its a fairly good scientific explanation of things. But did any of us witness it ? can we show enough evidence of it happening to PROVE it ? no.

2 years ago
1 point

Evolution has not been proven. There are flaws in evolution and it can be disproved. The theroy of evolution is foolish and people who believe it are foolish also

2 years ago
ChuckHades(3190) Disputed
1 point

Please explain why you think evolution has not been proven.

2 years ago
1 point

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2 years ago

evolution doesnt need to be proved if people are against it than they can belive what they want to elive and not care about the other. i am for evolution because they have proof that the different spiceis have changed and still contain identical DNA

2 years ago
1 point

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2 years ago
1 point

Then we find that the fossil record (primarily the Cambrian) shows that, rather than a long slow process of fossil change, species burst onto the scene fully formed. So, we need a new theory. Now we have "punctuated equilibrium", the theory that rather than Darwin's long slow process, we have a long process with quick bursts of change.

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1 point

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I think what is really stopping it from being proven is religion. The conflict would arise saying that web design company

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2 years ago
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By this I mean we would have to, from scratch in an isolated system, evolve a race of creates of intelligence equivalent to human intelligence, with absolutely no direction from humans, and it would have to be explicable in its entirety. This is impractical if not impossible at this point in time.

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2 years ago
1 point

I have read how most people are on the side of Evolution. there arguments are basically they fact how Bacterial can defend against antibiotics. If we evolved then why haven't we evolved enough to fight and beat cancer. There are more people being getting sicker by Cancer instead of beating cancer. We are getting weaker instead of stronger. If we are evolving has most beleave then how come we have not gotten stronger in time against all of diseases? Why havent any of the past animals people beleave we have evolved from are still the same never to evolve into a human again, like all the monkey's they still remaine monkey's. please dont correct spelling or anything like that....

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1 point

the only way to prove a lie is by calling it a theory Creation is proven and to know this all you have to do is get to know your creator. Why don't you? because you love your life more than you want the truth seek and you will find ask and you shall receive the Holy Spirit is in the World He came to set the captives free,

1 year ago
1 point

some things are designed to adapt this is not evolution it is intelligent design but nothing can decide it wants to fly it must be designed that way.

1 year ago
1 point

This is not a battle of flesh and blood but of principalities and powers. We where all born into this spiritual battle weather we know it or not. Evolution is designed to keep Gods Created people from searching for the truth and sadly it is working on so many lost souls but the good news is He is Risen and the Holy spirit is in the world if you want to know the truth that sets men free seek Jesus. If you want to believe in lies harden your heart get proud and selfish love your foolish theory its never gonna do you any good. you ask the question who made God but never ask what made matter ? i ask the question what's the matter with people. why do so many chase after the wind when they can know the truth?

1 year ago
1 point

It is fact i have no clue why it is not sed to be proven i can even prove and i dont even have any collge yet. It simple we all know that servlie of the fittist is true we see it every day we all know the gentic mutation is real just look at hair, disease there is even a villege of only deaf human they had no other contact.obvilsy genics get passed down we are human and dogs are dog that proves that. the resion why we dont see evltion to day is because it is slow as a soth held up by snail it take more the 10,000 years just for a change and i would say we are more evloed then be for.

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Because it is a theory. Even those most people agree it is the most likely theory, it can never be proven because that is the nature of scientific study.

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Evolution isn't a theory. It's a verified fact. Evolution can and has been demonstrated in the lab repeatedly. All evolution is change in any given system (biological or not) over time in direct response to external forces. Speciation is a theory. We have yet to to find a verifiable and credible example of speciation (one species becoming another). Every time a researcher thought they found one after careful examination they found it to be misidentification or errors in their process. So far we have yet to see one species become another in the lab. best annuity

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A common misunderstanding employed by opponents of evolution is what the term 'Theory' means, quick to say 'Its just a theory!'

They confuse theory with hypothesis- hypothesis being a tentative assumption made based on observation, that further study and experimentation is based off of.

In science, a Theory is backed up by all available observational evidence thus far. It is 'not proven yet' in the sense that by its very nature it is almost impossible to design an experiment to prove or disprove it. Even using fast-reproducing specimens, we're looking at a timetable beyond measuring the viscosity of pitch here.

But all available data so far seems to support evolution. Or at least, none directly discredits evolution and most directly support it. While opponents are quick to point out gaps in the current fossil record, it should be noted that corpses fossilize only under very particular conditions, and as such there are likely many species that never fossilized at all due to their own life cycle or tendencies. Also consider the rather small portion of the earths surface we've actually dug up looking for fossils... New species are being discovered frequently even now.

I should probably note that the impossible to experiment portion that I'm referring to is speciation, as would be required for the scope the theory refers to. I'm aware that selective tendencies for specific genetic traits has been observed.

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0 points

Evolution is a process, based on unclear initial conditions. It has not been proven because we can't completely simulate it or "redo" it from scratch.

To prove it would require nothing less than the evolution of a new sentient race. By this I mean we would have to, from scratch in an isolated system, evolve a race of creates of intelligence equivalent to human intelligence, with absolutely no direction from humans, and it would have to be explicable in its entirety. This is impractical if not impossible at this point in time.

"Seeing is believing" and it cannot be seen from start to finish because in practice the process of evolving takes longer than any one person's lifetime. Adaptation and mutation are short term and can be viewed by an individual, but those are only aspects of the larger process, which is the topic of conversation.

5 years ago | Side: Impractical
jessald(1906) Disputed
7 points

We have directly observed evolution in action in the peppered moth, to take one example. Bacteria becoming resistant to antibiotics is another laboratory provable example.

5 years ago | Side: It is proven
lawnman(1104) Disputed
1 point

Would you therefore say there is a new species of bacteria?

5 years ago | Side: Petitio principii
terryw03(3) Disputed
1 point

That does not prove evolution at all. Just because it becomes resistant to an antibiotic does not mean anything. who says the antibiotics were mixed correctly. What about the peppered moth proves Evolution?

2 years ago
stevo(4) Disputed
1 point

how is that evolution it looks like intelligent design from where i,m sitting.

1 year ago
1 point

wouldn't it be awesome if we did that though?

create a new type of life.

o shit, "Spore".

5 years ago | Side: Like Gravity
18129(1) Disputed
2 points

and what do you think breeders do? all those fast growing chickens and enormous cows. the hairless dogs and cats (and pigs! they where hairy at first)

4 years ago | Side: It is proven
0 points

The Fossil Record is still lacking:

The Fossil Record

Contrary to what most scientists write, the fossil record does not support the Darwinian theory of evolution because it is this theory (there are several) which we use to interpret the fossil record. By doing so we are guilty of circular reasoning if we then say the fossil record supports this theory.’

- Ronald R. West

Yet despite more than a century of digging, the fossil record remains maddeningly sparse. With so few clues, even a single bone that doesn't fit into the picture can upset everything. Virtually every major discovery has put deep cracks in the conventional wisdom and forced scientists to concoct new theories, amid furious debate.

Time Magazine, 1994

Since 1859 one of the most vexing properties of the fossil record has been its obvious imperfection. For the evolutionist this imperfection is most frustrating as it precludes any real possibility for mapping out the path of organic evolution owing to an infinity of "missing links".

- Arthur J. Boucot

Evidence for natural selection does not exist in the fossil record.

- Lipson, FRS

[F]or more than a century biologists have portrayed the evolution of life as a gradual unfolding ... Today the fossil record ... is forcing us to revise this conventional view.

- Stanley, S. M.

The known fossil record is not, and has never has been, in accord with gradualism. What is remarkable is that, through a variety of historical circumstances, even the history of opposition has been obscured. ... 'The majority of paleontologists felt their evidence simply contradicted Darwin's stress on minute, slow, and cumulative changes leading to species transformation.' ... their story has been suppressed.

-Stanley, S. M.

It remains true, as every paleontologist knows, that most new species, genera, and families, and that nearly all categories above the level of families, appear in the [fossil] record suddenly, and are not led up to by gradual, completely continuous transitional sequences.

- Simpson, George Gaylord

Despite the bright promise that paleontology provides a means of "seeing" evolution, it has presented some nasty difficulties for evolutionists the most notorious of which is the presence of "gaps" in the fossil record. Evolution requires intermediate forms between species and paleontology does not provide them. The gaps must therefore be a contingent feature of the record.

- David B. Kitts

Contrary to what most scientists write, the fossil record does not support the Darwinian theory of evolution because it is this theory (there are several) which we use to interpret the fossil record. By doing so we are guilty of circular reasoning if we then say the fossil record supports this theory.

-Ronald R. West

Anything truly novel always seemed to appear quite abruptly in the fossil record.

- Ernst Mayr

Well, we are now about 120 years after Darwin and the knowledge of the fossil record has been greatly expanded. We now have a quarter of a million fossil species but the situation hasn’t changed much. The record of evolution is still surprisingly jerky and , ironically, we have even fewer examples of evolutionary transition than we had in Darwin’s time.

- Dr David M. Raup

Darwin's prediction of rampant, albeit gradual, change affecting all lineages through time is refuted. The record is there, and the record speaks for tremendous anatomical conservatism. Change in the manner Darwin expected is just not found in the fossil record.

- Niles Eldredge

One might suppose that Darwin, like his modern intellectual descendants, saw in the fossil record a confirmation of his theory -- the literal documentation of life's evolution from the Cambrian to the present day. In fact, the two chapters devoted to geology in The Origin of Species are anything but celebratory. On the contrary, they constitute a carefully worded apology in which Darwin argues that evolution by natural selection is correct despite an evident lack of support from fossils.

- Andrew Knoll

It is a feature of the known fossil record that most taxa appear abruptly. They are not, as a rule, led up by a sequence of almost imperceptibly changing forerunners such as Darwin believed should be usual in evolution. A great many sequences of two or a few temporally intergrading species are known, but even at this level most species appear without known immediate ancestors, and really long, perfectly complete sequences of numerous species are exceedingly rare.

- George Gaylord Simpson

2 years ago


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