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Debate Score:90
Arguments:103
Total Votes:113
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 Why in the USA does Capitalism seem unappealing to some? (68)

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smilinbobs(600) pic



Why in the USA does Capitalism seem unappealing to some?

If we were to get rid of the government intervention in capitalism it would work better but politics and corruption are always a major factor in the evils of the corporate world. With that said only in capitalist societies can an innovative ambitious poor person become a wealthy person. Capitalism creates a society where you can choose your level of financial success or failure, better if we limit government interference.
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2 points

Clearly you're oh so right. All those people that are in slums chose to be at that level. All those child-marriages to escape poverty were entirely chosen circumstances.

/sarcasm

0 points

Clearly you're oh so right. All those people that are in slums chose to be at that level. All those child marriages to escape poverty were entirely chosen circumstances.

Don't you DARE use sarcasm, Mingipoowoo.

As Amarel rightly pointed out just days ago, these are all "voluntary transactions".

outlaw60(14189) Disputed
1 point

http://www.worldstopexports.com/united-kingdoms-top-exports/

Technically named the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, the United Kingdom shipped US$484 billion worth of goods around the globe in 2018. That dollar amount reflects a -5.3% slowdown since 2014 but a 9.5% expansion from one year earlier in 2017.

Based on estimates from the Central Intelligence Agency’s World Factbook, United Kingdom’s exported goods plus services represent 30.2% of total UK economic output or Gross Domestic Product. The analysis below focuses on exported products only.

From a continental perspective, 54.2% of UK exports by value were delivered to other European trade partners with 46.6% going to European Union members. Another 23.1% was sold to Asian importers while the United Kingdom shipped 15.2% worth to North America. Smaller percentages arrived in Africa (2.3%), Oceania (1.5%) led by Australia and New Zealand then Latin America (1.3%) excluding Mexico but including the Caribbean.

Given United Kingdom’s population of 65.1 million people, its total $484 billion in 2018 exports translates to roughly 7,400 for every resident in the western European country.

The United Kingdom’s unemployment rate was 4% as of December 2018. That UK jobless rate is the lowest level since the 1970s according to Trading Economics.

The Limey's must be slaves to the Capitalist!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

-1 points

And he uses a UN-endorsed more accurate understanding of freedom that is named Economic Freedom scale but ranks those nations lower as they know how negatively the Economic Freedom affects them and which still ignores that even in those nations of New Zealand, Hong Kong and Ireland that the ability to work freely comes still at a price and is why those nations don't score as high on happiness ratings as Denmark, Sweden and other full-on social democracies.

It's just sad how small hos scope of understanding is but you're just as bad in a different way. You still think MJ wasn't a paedohpile because a corrupt course case resulted in that. Research Leaving Neverland and learn how wrong you are. Same with your views on Israel vs Palestine. You refuse to ever be open-minded or accept alternate outlooks.

That's what most people on this site do. I'm weaning myself off of online debating. Maximum gonna a be doing it one to 1.5 hours per day avg. If you know how addicted I was before, this is serious weaning and I'm genuinely feeling both benefits and mental withdrawal symptoms all at once. You should try it. It's harder than you think at first, but has a very fast reward. I'm experiencing a sense of calm and patience-threshold that was definitely inhibited by interacting so harshly and frequently with people here and on DA.

For the record, the day I lashed out at you was the day where I truly realised the effect it was having on me and my blood pressure. So, yeah you are to thank for inspiring me to finally cut down on this toxic habit.

I will never fully quit, this definitely has helped my brain in ways no other hobby can or will. Debating is such a unique brain-stimulating habit that I truly will do it to my grave but less than I used to, is all.

smilinbobs(600) Disputed
0 points

They are chosen outcomes. everyone has choices in life not all of our choices are good but they are ours. I come from poverty and I have chosen to live at a certain income level, stress level, location, in a certain type of relationship, ect. I could have chosen drugs, public assistance, homelessness, ect. People have to stop blaming everyone and everything else and be responsible for your own destiny.

Mingiwuwu(1736) Clarified
1 point

You are either a very stupid person or a very ignorant one. I am not sure which. There is something called 'born into poverty' where no matter how hard you study or work, your qualifications and career prospects stay narrow and shit and one year of bad harvest for your farm will starve you so badly you can barely focus at school with yoru stomach rumbling and no vital minerals and such to your brain and body. You speak so much for a guy who hasn't spent a day in Kenya or Bangladesh and if you can't afford to see real poverty due to the cost of such journey(s) then at least watch documentaries on the matter.

0 points

You are 100% correct and proof of how the choices we make in life determines the quality of our lives.

FromWithin(6937) Disputed
0 points

Your sarcasm was actually the truth.

The condition of our lives is most times dependent on the choices we make in life. Unless there are health problems (not stemming from drugs or alcohol), the quality of our lives falls squarely on our shoulders.

No one forces people to have those one night hook ups, or having premarital unprotected sex, or taking hard drugs, or abusing alcohol, etc. etc. etc.

The choices people make determine their quality of life. How do you think people end up in the slums? I'm not speaking about children raised in the slums by dead beat parents.

Those children are victims of the irresponsible lifestyles I'm speaking to.

I realize the Left hates any such notions of personal responsibility and accountability for one's choices in life. The Left believes in a no fault anything goes culture whereby people are bailed out from their irresponsibility for their entire lives.

This socialistic commune type culture does nothing but create more poverty and broken lives. Just look at the record numbers of people living off food stamps after eight years of Obama's bleeding heart socialistic ideology.

2 points

BOB you mean Capitalism is unappealing to the Leftist Jeff Bezos ?????????

Jeff Bezos/Net worth

138.1 billion USD

2019

With a net worth of $134.5 billion as of Friday, Amazon founder and CEO Jeff Bezos is the world's richest person. But due to his pending divorce from his wife, MacKenzie, his net worth could soon be cut in half -- to $67 billion.Feb 5, 2019

What a tragedy for a Leftist !!!!!!!!!!!!!

1 point

When people are forsaken for profits, it's not a mystery why capitalism is unappealing. For example, The healthcare industry is inefficient and costly. People die just because they can't afford medicine or surgery when if we switched to a universal healthcare system, we would save money and raise life expectancy. Then when you think about the people that live paycheck to paycheck with little to no leisure spending, they're basically slaves. A good summary of slavery is "A portion of the population produces a surplus for a separate portion which they don't have control over". That is effectively what is happening in capitalism. Private prisons are a good example of the wrongness of capitalism. Prisons make money by having more prisoners which leads to exactly what the US is today. More prisoners per capita than any nation in history. They have to send a minimum amount of people to jail each year which means that people who don't deserve to go to jail, do anyway because it makes money. Another simple example is dirty energy. People will poison the planet, which will kill us all if we don't change it, for the sake of short term profit which obviously is incentiveized by capitalism. You leave the choice of poisioning the planet up to average everyday people, they won't do it unlike dirty capitalists. Then the fact that WAR is good for capitalism which is why the US is constantly at war. War can make a shit ton of money. We will literally go kill other people who are foreign to us for the sake of money. Civilians too not just "Militiants" or whatever the bullshit US is calling them

A lot of this really isn't a mystery. Capitalism works for a small portion of people. Propaganda has led people to believe otherwise. It fundamentally doesn't change the dynamic of the Lord and the serfs as seen in Fuedalism. Now you have the capitalist and the proletariat. In summary capitalism is fundamentally un-democratic and goes against actual freedom.

Socialism, as it is actually defined,(not the typical american definition of socialism) would fix a lot of the issues that capitalism has. When the workers actually control the means of production and democratically vote on how to run the business they work for, many of these issues will go away because people are not gonna vote against their interests, unlike how it works in capitalism where the executives do whatever makes them the most money and says "fuck you" to those that are negatively affected by their business decisions.

smilinbobs(600) Disputed
1 point

You mention war as being the product of capitalism but again war is the product of government. Socialist economies also welcome war more so than capitalist economies. War to government (socialist) accomplishes a number of important functions. Population decrease which = better economy. The need for materials of war = better economy. Unifies the statist nationalism and pride which = obedience. Capitalist societies can benefit from war but don't need it. Politicians who invest in war related industries like Dick Cheney and countless other politicians are the real problem

1 point

You mention war as being the product of capitalism but again war is the product of government.

You keep pretending that government is a separate entity from the capitalist state so that you can use it as a red herring to shift blame upon every time you are faced with a reasonable point.

1 point

Politicians who invest in war related industries like Dick Cheney and countless other politicians are the real problem

I'm certainly not going to argue with you that Dick Cheney is a problem, but you are vastly underselling the point. There is considerable mobility between high level politics and high level jobs in the private sector. Besides which, the entire American political system is funded by capitalist donors. You keep blaming a government which capitalists have specifically chosen with their own wealth and power.

smilinbobs(600) Disputed
0 points

I happen to know a great deal about healthcare as I work in healthcare. Here are some truths that you can fact check if you doubt my word. Health care is so costly because of government not capitalism. Healthcare is so over regulated that it cost a fortune to meet all of the government imposed criteria. An example of this is the fact that 20 years ago health insurance premiums were a small percentage of the current cost. Our hospital to meet all of the regulatory requirements employs about 800 people to take care of an average 30 patients daily. The government keeps requiring all kinds of positions where people are checking on the people who are checking on the other people. None of these people have anything to do with the health of the patient. They send inspection teams annually to find minor deficiencies then they fine the hospital for each of them. Better yet they are normally things which have been the same way for many years without issue and cost thousands to fix. Our most recent was the replacement of many fully functional doors at the cost of $180,000 plus 11,000 in fines. These are why health care is in the state it is in. Then the governments solution is not to have public owned hospitals and reduce regulation. The government answer is to make it more costly then steal more tax money to give to the insurance companies (Banking institutions) along with increasing the cost of health insurance for all.

2 points

I happen to know a great deal about healthcare as I work in healthcare. Here are some truths that you can fact check if you doubt my word. Health care is so costly because of government not capitalism.

I think you need to formulate a better understanding of the function of government, my friend. Government is there to protect capitalists in nations which use capitalism as their main economic system. Capitalists simply point their finger at the government whenever they are caught doing anything wrong because it's a great method of deflecting blame onto a party which pretty much can do whatever it wants anyway, so it's never really a big deal. When people think banks did something wrong they rally and protest. When they think the government did something wrong they usually just shrug their shoulders and curse. The only time the government and the capitalist parasites are ever truly, genuinely at odds with one another is over tax.

smilinbobs(600) Disputed
0 points

Again with prisons, capitalism is not the problem with the prison system it is government. The US government is the largest organized illegal drug syndicate in the world. This was confirmed with the 80's cocaine trade Barry Seals, the Iran Contra case, ect. Now it's the Opium trade (hence the reason we invaded Afghanistan) If you look at the UN poppy production stats you will see that in 2000-2001 the Taliban had burned the poppy fields and threatened the poppy farmers. The US military was sent in to protect the existing poppy fields and now poppy production is at an all time high. If you keep up on current events you would know there is a heroin epidemic. The US government also has a war on drugs so they can use the prison industrial complex to cash in on more money. For politicians it's a win win. Capitalism is not the problem there it's government.

1 point

Again with prisons, capitalism is not the problem with the prison system it is government.

Buddy, if the society is capitalist then people go to jail because they break the laws of the capitalist state. For example, under capitalism you are not permitted to just take stuff that you need. You go to jail for that, even if you need it because you will die without it. Hence, capitalism is the problem if it is putting people in jail because they need stuff and have taken it, and that wording also applies to the drugs I mentioned in my last post.

1 point

This was confirmed with the 80's cocaine trade Barry Seals, the Iran Contra case, ect. Now it's the Opium trade (hence the reason we invaded Afghanistan) If you look at the UN poppy production stats you will see that in 2000-2001 the Taliban had burned the poppy fields and threatened the poppy farmers.

The Iran-Contra case obviously confirms nothing except the Iran-Contra case. The entire reason people sell drugs is because of capitalism. It makes them rich, and they are taught that being rich is what they need to be. They are taught that is what being successful means. Hence, of course drugs are going to be a problem in capitalist society. It's inevitable, because they are a very marketable product.

1 point

Why in the USA does Capitalism seem unappealing to some?

Hello Smiley:

Under Trump, capitalism is left unfettered.. Under that scenario, money moves to the TOP. It works great for the rich - not so much for the middle class and the poor.. But, that's NOT the fault of capitalism.. It's the fault of congress.. If capitalism is going to work for everybody, there needs to be RULES.

Here's a GOOD example.. Left unfettered, lenders charge the poor upwards of 400% to borrow money.. The rich pay about 12%.. That's NOT good for the poor. If capitalism is to work for EVERYBODY, the rich need to STOP ripping us off.

excon

3 points

If capitalism is to work for EVERYBODY

Capitalism CANNOT work for everybody. That's a total logical contradiction of itself. Capitalism is premised upon there being an economic hierarchy, which means there are always going to be poor twats at the bottom with less than everybody else. Socialism can -- in theory at least -- work for everybody. Capitalism cannot do this even in theory.

2 points

Under Trump, capitalism is left unfettered.. Under that scenario, money moves to the TOP.

Money always moves to the top. That's the very basis of capitalism you fool. Twits like you were simply conned by the no true Scotsman fallacy offered by capitalists in the wake of the 2008 disaster. It wasn't REAL capitalism. That was some abhorrent other system we are going to create a different name for. How about UNFETTERED CAPITALISM? Is that catchy enough? It is? Great. Now, where's that idiot, Excon?

smilinbobs(600) Disputed
1 point

When you have 1,000,000 dollars and you decide to lend it out to make money you can set your own rate on lending. You can lend it to the poor at 12% and hopefully it works out for you. My guess is that it won't. You will most likely lose on some of your investments. If you lend it to the wealthy they will either pay it back or you will take it using the law out of their wealth (which they have being wealthy) It's not a matter of fair it's just reality. The thing about reality and truth is that it's not always fair.

If we were to get rid of the government intervention in capitalism it would work better

You tried that already in 2008 and it led to the near-total collapse of the entire western economy.

Literally, you should be banned from having an opinion.

smilinbobs(600) Disputed
0 points

Who do you think caused the economic collapse of 2008? It was government and it's rulers that is why the taxpayers gave them 800 billion dollars.

excon(11479) Disputed
2 points

Who do you think caused the economic collapse of 2008? It was government and it's rulers

Hello again, smiley:

Nahhh... It was the banks.. They ran amuck. You've played Monopoly, haven't you? That's how UNFETTERED capitalism works.. The game is over when ONE guy owns EVERYTHING.

When libs were in charge, there was a REGULATION that said saving and loan banks could ONLY lend to home buyers.. That's because we didn't want these banks to invest YOUR money into all sorts of WILD and CRAZY investments.. Historically, that was the role of commercial banks. When you put your money in them, you KNEW they would gamble with it.. That's WHY you put your money in there.. But, when you put your money in a savings bank, you didn't want them to gamble with it.. You wanted them to invest in very safe home mortgages.

But, when right wingers took over, they REMOVED that REGULATION. And, guess what happened??? Your savings and loan invested YOUR MONEY into all sorts of wild and crazy schemes. Not surprisingly, they LOST it all, and almost bankrupted the WORLD.

We're about to do it again.. Buy gold.

excon

2 points

Who do you think caused the economic collapse of 2008?

Deregulating capitalism is what caused the economic collapse. In particular, deregulating the mortgage industry.

It was government and it's rulers

It was if you agree that the capitalist junta rules the government. Nobody forced the banks to sell bad mortgages. They did it because they didn't think they could lose. Customers who default on secured loans have their properties taken away and the bank resells them.

I defend a little capitalism- just with strict rules. I also defend socialism to some extent. If you understood dualities, u would understand that extremes are never good. Extreme left (sticklers creativity and innovation. Extreme right, allows a class system to develop until the working class breaks down and revolts. What we have now in America is an EXPERIMENT . 1st time in human history we didn’t live in little Tribes that were lil socialist tribes. Man has not lived without small socialist tribe

I defend a little capitalism- just with strict rules. I also defend socialism to some extent. If you understood dualities, u would understand that extremes are never good.

This is why I laugh when you identify as a nationalist socialist, because you're probably the most sensible centrist here.

smilinbobs(600) Disputed
1 point

Socialism only works in small groups like a family where the supporting members voluntarily contribute to the group wealth. This is done because the supporting members feel an obligation to care for the non contributing members.

If socialism contributions are involuntary (this is theft) this creates an atmosphere of dissent. This is where socialism fails because the contributors and non-contributors are essentially equal. Why would you want to be a contributor?

In capitalism your worth is determined by your contribution and with ambition you can achieve any reasonable desired wealth. If you offer no contribution it is your choice but you should not expect others to support you.

0 points

In this case The ''some'' are life's losers.

Life is a game, and in all games there will be winners and losers.

The losers usually blame the game rather than recognising that they are at the bottom of the league due exclusively to their own failings.

2 points

Life is a game, and in all games there will be winners and losers.

You appear to be confusing two different things here: life and capitalism.

Refusing to play a game you can't win isn't the same thing as losing. It's the same thing as being intelligent.