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Cheap propaganda They are right, here's facts
Debate Score:9
Arguments:10
Total Votes:9
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 Cheap propaganda (4)
 
 They are right, here's facts (4)

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BigOats(1449) pic



Why is Western media constantly lying about the new Russian laws?

Since Russia had adopted the new anti gay - propaganda laws, I have seen numerous articles in Western media sources, caliming that these laws set jail sentences for being homosexual.These claims are in fact stupid bullshit, and have nothing to do with reality. The so-called "anti - gay law" introduced a new paragraph 6.21 to the Russian code of Administrative Violations. Here is a full translation of the paragraph:

"6.21. Propaganda of non - traditional sexual relationships among minors.
1. Propaganda of non - traditional sexual relationships among minors, expressed in the dissimation of information aimed at forming non - traditional sexual attitudes among minors, attractiveness of non - traditional sexual relationships, distorted image of social equality of traditional and non-traditional sexual relationships, or the imposition of information about non - traditional sexual relations, which can attract interest to such relations, if these actions do not make up a criminal offence, -
shall entail the imposition of an administrative fine in the amount of 4000 to 5000 rubles for citizens; in the amount of 40 000 to 50 000 rubles for oficials; and in the amount of 800 000 to 1000 000 rubles for organizations, which can in the latter case be replaced by suspension of activity for up to 90 days.
2. Actions provided for by paragraph 1 of this Article, committed with the use of the media and (or) information and telecommunication networks (including network "Internet"),if these actions do not make up a criminal offense, -
shall entail the imposition of an administrative fine on citizens in the amount of 50 000 to one 100 000 rubles; for officials - from 1000000 to 200000 rubles; for legal entities - 1000 000 rubles or administrative suspension of activity for up to 90 days.
3. Actions provided for by paragraph 1 of this Article, committed by a foreign national or a stateless person, if these actions do not make up a criminal offense, -
shall be punishable by a fine of 4000 to 5000 rubles followed by administrative expulsion from the Russian Federation or administrative arrest for up to 15 days followed by expulsion from the Russian Federation.
4. Actions provided for by paragraph 1 of this Article, committed by a foreign national or a stateless person with the use of the media and (or) information and telecommunication networks (including network "Internet") if these actions do not make up a criminal offense, -
shall be punishable by a fine of 50 000 to one 100 000 rubles followed by administrative expulsion from the Russian Federation or administrative arrest for up to 15 days followed by administrative expulsion from the Russian Federation."

So, Russian individuals who violate this law can only be charged with a relatively small fine of $170.This law does not mention the sexual orientation of the violators. It targets gay rights activists, regardless whether straight or gay.

Cheap propaganda

Side Score: 4
VS.

They are right, here's facts

Side Score: 5
1 point

I think Western media deserves a Stalin prize for propaganda, as a reward for this.

Side: Cheap propaganda
addltd(5144) Clarified
1 point

But, why would they make this law in the first place?

Side: Cheap propaganda
BigOats(1449) Disputed
1 point

Well, I think the main reason was to avoid following the anti - example set by some other countries, like USA and some from EU. In the modern world, it seems to be impossible for Russia not to make a decision on this: whether we follow the PC madness, or oppose it. There is no in - between.

This in no way means that I support everything our parliament does, in fact I think they are usually incompetent and create very silly laws. The anti - gay propaganda law was one exception that really surprised me. I had actually been thinking of something like that myself.

As to why the gay agenda is a negative thing, - well a lot can be said, and has already been said by American people. Just one source:

http://www.massresistance.org

Side: Cheap propaganda

You seem to be under the misconception that the purpose of the news is to report and inform, when in reality the purpose of news is to entertain ;)

Side: They are right, here's facts
1 point

I have never seen one western article about the laws you are talking about.

Side: They are right, here's facts
Cartman(18192) Disputed
1 point

One article is constant now?

Is the article true? Is adoption banned for gay couples? Can you be arrested in relation to homosexuality?

Side: They are right, here's facts
1 point

"So, Russian individuals who violate this law can only be charged with a relatively small fine of $170.This law does not mention the sexual orientation of the violators. It targets gay rights activists, regardless whether straight or gay. "

As far as I'm aware, and correct me if I'm wrong, the initial drafting of the bill banned homosexuality. The wording has since changed but the intention is clear.

What the act does is ban people from sharing information (does this include talking, potentially?) about being gay and gay relations. They've said this only applies to minors but it means that the media, broadcasting to everyone, won't be able to transmit anything to do with being gay. This means that politicians that are in favour of gay rights will be unable to express this view. To prevent your opponents from speaking out, on pain of criminal sanctions, is abhorrent. The fact that some USA newspapers have misinterpreted the law (I sometimes think with the USA that its a question of immaturity and lack of intelligence than intention...) is nothing compared to the effect of and intention behind this law.

Side: They are right, here's facts
BigOats(1449) Disputed
1 point

1."As far as I'm aware, and correct me if I'm wrong, the initial drafting of the bill banned homosexuality. The wording has since changed but the intention is clear."

I am not sure what you mean by "banning homosexuality". If you mean introducing criminal punishment for being a homosexual, then you are wrong indeed. From the very start, this law was about homosexual propaganda, and nothing else. The wording has indeed changed, but only in the respect of refining the definition of the term "propaganda of non - traditional relations".

This law introduces administrative punishment, which is something completely different from criminal punishment. For administrative violations, the maximum punishment is 15 days, or suspension of business activity / driving license. They are not considered criminal offense, and do not add to the criminal record.

In Russia, homosexuality was decriminalized in 1994. Unless the political system changes completely, this will not be reversed. Specifically, Putin would never sign such a law.

2. "What the act does is ban people from sharing information (does this include talking, potentially?) about being gay and gay relations."

If somebody talks about gay relations to an adult or a group of adults, then it will not be a violation of the law. The law is aimed to prevent the "sharing" of this information among minors.

3. "They've said this only applies to minors but it means that the media, broadcasting to everyone, won't be able to transmit anything to do with being gay."

The law is indeed not specific enough when it comes to defining what is propaganda over media channels.

It has to be applied in conjunction with the other bill, the Protection of Minors from Harmful Information bill. That bill contains a list of what information is considered harmful for minors, and sets appropriate airing times for TV programs which might expose minors to such information.

So, recording a TV program which contains information on gay relations, does not in itself qualify for violation of the law. It's up to the TV company to ensure it's aired at the appropriate time, and if it isn't, then the company will be held responsible.

If there is a live show, where gay relations are discussed, and it's aired during the inappropriate time, then indeed the participants of the show may be charged with fines for violating the said law.

5 "This means that politicians that are in favor of gay rights will be unable to express this view.To prevent your opponents from speaking out, on pain of criminal sanctions, is abhorrent."

I'm not sure if we need such politicians in Russia. I am convinced that the "gay rights" movement has nothing to do with human rights, but is actually working in favor of a special interests group. I have no statistics on Russia, but in the USA gays do not qualify for being an oppressed minority.

Source: http://www.crrange.com/wall34.html

Homosexuals do not meet the three criteria that characterize minority groups that have been accorded special legal protections.

The three criteria being: economic deprivation, political powerlessness, and immutable characteristics.

Homosexuals do not meet any of those three criteria.

As I've mentioned before, the anti gay-propaganda law does not introduce any criminal sanctions, so there is possibility of such a threat to political opponents. The new law introduces amendment to the administrative violations code. Russians can only be prosecuted by fines. Russian businesses can be prosecuted by fines, or alternatively by up to 90 days suspension of activity.

6. "The fact that some USA newspapers have misinterpreted the law (I sometimes think with the USA that its a question of immaturity and lack of intelligence than intention...) is nothing compared to the effect of and intention behind this law."

I can't believe your journalists can be so incompetent. After all, it's your media that helped bring down the USSR, and during these days they had to be very intelligent and accurate in their work.

Side: Cheap propaganda
Atrag(5666) Clarified
1 point

Well you make some interesting points. Thank you.

I can't believe your journalists can be so incompetent. After all, it's your media that helped bring down the USSR, and during these days they had to be very intelligent and accurate in their work.

I'm not USAian, I'm British. I'm living in Spain and would very much like to be Spanish rather than British.

Side: Cheap propaganda