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Debate Info

507
412
Yes, of course! No, it is Raffles!
Debate Score:919
Arguments:277
Total Votes:1086
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Argument Ratio

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 Yes, of course! (159)
 
 No, it is Raffles! (118)

Debate Creator

JenniferTay(40) pic



William Farquhar ought to be honoured as the rightful founder of Singapore

This debate invites you to contribute your thoughts on who ought to be honoured as the rightful founder of Singapore.

 

You are to make use of the following information to help you:

1) Previous individual/group/class definitions of "Founding" to structure your arguments on what constitutes our criteria in recognising a "Founder".

2) Evidences shared in the last lesson based on the 9 sets of readings we went through in class.

 

3) The question cards which have been distributed to you. Please use these to evaluate your friends' arguments so as to gain points for your stand!

 

 

Enjoy the debate and remember not to get personal in your comments! 

 

 

Yes, of course!

Side Score: 507
VS.

No, it is Raffles!

Side Score: 412
9 points

Farquhar won the affection and respect from the people with his doings. When he was sacked, thousands of people bade him farewell on the day he left Singapore. This proves that Farquhar is very important to the people.

Side: Yes, of course!
Praveen98(24) Disputed
5 points

Does winning the affection of people make Farquhar the founder of Singapore?A founder is someone who establishes something.Farquhar did not establish the free trade in Singapore.Raffles did.

And does winning the affection of someone make them the founder?He might be important as you said but he just solved some everyday problems in Singapore

Side: No, it is Raffles!
SimBowen(24) Disputed
3 points

I have to disagree with that. if a founder is someone who establishes something won't there be plenty of founders in this world?

Side: Yes, of course!
Sheares(19) Disputed
3 points

Many of the citizens support Farquhar because he was the one who appeared the most to them, and they were the one who could see the effects of his contributions first-hand. But they did not see the contributions of Raffles in the bigger picture. The contributions of Raffles were bigger than Farquhar. He had ideas, he had the support of the British when he selected Singapore. But his contributions were hidden to the common people

Side: No, it is Raffles!
SimBowen(24) Disputed
2 points

Please explain what you mean by common people. Do you mean that only nobles can see Raffle's contribution? AND if Farquhar was the one that appeared most to them, why do we now forget him? Even the street bearing his name has been removed.

Side: Yes, of course!
Edwin(11) Disputed
3 points

Please explain further about the affection and respect. Does that mean that I win the affection and respect of the people, I am the founder of something? Sometimes people win people's affection and respect by doing some other good deeds and they may not have founded anything.

Side: No, it is Raffles!
9 points

Even though Raffles did all the so-called planning, Farquhar did make some plans of his own, too, since Raffles had to leave for Bencoolen. This means that Farquhar had to plan on his own, too.

Side: Yes, of course!
Chinni(35) Disputed
2 points

So did raffles planned on his own .. Raffles did not run away it was his duty..

Side: No, it is Raffles!
sweetsecrecy(21) Disputed
5 points

Raffles planned. Yes, this the credit we can give him. But the fact that HE DID run away and NEGLECT singapore for FOUR whole YEARS remains as a fact that cannot be changed. It may have been his duty, like what you have stated, but he pushed this responsibility to Farquhar, letting him do the job instead.

Side: Yes, of course!
8 points

Farquhar did all the ground work to improve Singapore but Raffles only dreamt about what to do.

Side: Yes, of course!
JenniferTay(40) Disputed
5 points

What evidence is there to support what you are saying? Can you please provide an example of the ground work which Farquhar did?

Side: No, it is Raffles!
8 points

Farquhar was the one to implement the actual operations, whereas Raffles only came up with the ideas, which would or would not work. Actions require action, and Farquhar implemented those ideas.

Side: Yes, of course!
Swiftassasin(5) Disputed
5 points

So you mean if I follow orders from people it makes me a founder?If I was the commander of an army I gave the command and the proper strategy while you to do work.Without my planning you wouldn't know the proper strategy. It doesn't mean that if i do the work I get the rights

Side: No, it is Raffles!
GundamRyan(31) Disputed
4 points

What has the commander of an army have to do with this? And commanders are never given a strategy for combat. They themselves are the ones who create the strategy. Is your example even related to the question?

Side: Yes, of course!
bradleyng123(1) Disputed
2 points

After all the problems he had solved he did not do anything about the opium dens,crimes and vices.If he had done something about it I would have voted for Farquhar

Side: No, it is Raffles!
8 points

He invited the immigrants from Malacca to come and trade and stationed an office at St. John’s Island to inform the trading ships passing by about the settlement in Singapore.

Side: Yes, of course!
3 points

I agree with this point. Raffles did not help William Farquhar for this matter and many others.

Side: Yes, of course!
8 points

Farquar dealt with every day problems during the early years of Singapore.He also attempted to know the people and understood malay, whereas Raffles hardly communicated with the people.

Side: Yes, of course!
Swiftassasin(5) Disputed
4 points

So are you trying to say that by helping people with every day problems,it makes you a founder?

Side: No, it is Raffles!
SimBowen(24) Disputed
4 points

He did not say anything of such. He just pointed out that William Farquhar made more effort to communicate with the people.

Side: Yes, of course!
Chinni(35) Disputed
4 points

Well okay but how will it affect of being a founder i am sure Raffles did the main contribution to Singapore like developing it.. Farquar juz took in charge of it ?

Side: No, it is Raffles!
SimBowen(24) Disputed
4 points

He made the main contribution? Don't make me laugh. Farquhar made many times the contribution that Raffles did.

Side: Yes, of course!
Praveen98(24) Disputed
4 points

Give me some examples of the problems he solved...How does that help?

Side: No, it is Raffles!
GundamRyan(31) Disputed
3 points

He solved a rat and centipede infestation, defended Singapore from the Dutch and managed Singapore without any support for four years.

Side: Yes, of course!
8 points

Farquar weeded out many problems, such as the rat and centipede infestation. It took only a few days for Farquar to finish destroying the infestation, whereas Raffles did not do anything about the problem at all.

Side: Yes, of course!
7 points

Farquhar was the one that played the role of a 'mother' to Singapore.He contributed more to Singapore than Raffles supporting the fact that he was the founder of Singapore.

Side: Yes, of course!
Harindrar(13) Disputed
4 points

a mother to one may seem as a demon to another so the point must be elaborated

Side: No, it is Raffles!
SimBowen(24) Disputed
1 point

Why on earth would a mother be considered as a demon? Unless you are looking at it from another point of view namely the Demon's point of view, if so of course the good stuff that a mother does would seem 'evil' to you

Side: Yes, of course!
Chinni(35) Disputed
4 points

Are there any evidences that Raffles contributed more? PLs state...

Side: No, it is Raffles!
SimBowen(24) Disputed
1 point

Simple. Because Raffles(bluntly put) 'ditched' Singapore for bencoolen and left Farquhar fend for the country. an example would be a divorced mother being left to take care of a child alone. Do you know that is hard? multiply that by a 100-10000 times and you'll get the difficulty of raising a country.

Side: Yes, of course!
Harindrar(13) Disputed
3 points

can you give me an example? Tell me why raffles cant be considered a "mother" as well

Side: No, it is Raffles!
SimBowen(24) Disputed
2 points

Simple. Because Raffles(bluntly put) 'ditched' Singapore for bencoolen and left Farquhar fend for the country. an example would be a divorced mother being left to take care of a child alone. Do you know that is hard? multiply that by a 100-10000 times and you'll get the difficulty of raising a country. Raffles was just the irresponsible father that left the mother and child alone.

Side: Yes, of course!
GWQ98(10) Disputed
2 points

In what way did Farquhar contribute more? Please state examples.

Side: No, it is Raffles!
SimBowen(24) Disputed
1 point

Simple. Because Raffles(bluntly put) 'ditched' Singapore for bencoolen and left Farquhar fend for the country. an example would be a divorced mother being left to take care of a child alone. Do you know that is hard? multiply that by a 100-10000 times and you'll get the difficulty of raising a country.

Side: Yes, of course!
Praveen98(24) Disputed
2 points

Can you tell me why Farquhar played the role of a mother to Singapore

Side: No, it is Raffles!
SimBowen(24) Disputed
0 points

Simple. Because Raffles(bluntly put) 'ditched' Singapore for bencoolen and left Farquhar fend for the country. an example would be a divorced mother being left to take care of a child alone. Do you know that is hard? multiply that by a 100-10000 times and you'll get the difficulty of raising a country.

Side: Yes, of course!
Praveen98(24) Disputed
2 points

You said that "He contributed more to Singapore than Raffles supporting the fact that he was the founder of Singapore."

Does contribution make one a founder?

Side: No, it is Raffles!
SimBowen(24) Disputed
1 point

Then what makes a founder? To me it is one who contributes their time, sweat, money, blood, and most importantly MAKES THE PLACE BETTER.

Side: Yes, of course!
7 points

Farquhar was the one to take charge of the new settlement and keep it running against all odds after British presence was introduced, as Raffles had to return to Bencoolen.

Side: Yes, of course!
Edwin(11) Disputed
7 points

How does that relate to what we have been talking about? You say that Farquhar was the one to take charge of the new settlement and keep it running against all odds, but it does not mean that Farquhar founded Singapore, he just kept the new settlement running, but the actual founder was Raffles. He laid the foundation for the new settlement and let Farquhar do the rest of the easy job of running it.

Side: No, it is Raffles!
GundamRyan(31) Disputed
3 points

How is running a population is easy? It is easy to build houses but harder to keep it operational for a long time. In this case, Farquhar had the most difficult task of managing Singapore and keep it running.

Side: Yes, of course!
jeremeho(12) Disputed
3 points

Running a country is never easy. It is a very huge responsibility and whenever something about corruption pops up in the country, the Prime Minister/President is the person who takes the most flak. If you think that running a country is that easy, there wouldn't be any stories of politicians like Gandhi going through hardship just to get self-independence.

Side: Yes, of course!
Chinni(35) Disputed
2 points

Well how does it relate or affect out arguement? It was juz his duty...

Side: No, it is Raffles!
SimBowen(24) Disputed
1 point

Firstly.I would like to point out your spelling mistake.

Secondly.Since you said it just his duty, Why did he get sacked for it, may i ask?

Side: Yes, of course!
7 points

Raffles unjustly removed Farquhar from his position in Singapore and accused him of ' being too close to the local population '. I think that it is unfair that a person who contributed so much to Singapore's development be unjustly sent off like that.

Side: Yes, of course!
2 points

I think Raffles was right to remove Farquhar from his position as he was 'being too close to the local population'. If Farquhar was too close to the citizens, the decisions made by him may be affected, since he may be already close to them and care about what they want, not what is good for them.

Side: Yes, of course!
SimBowen(24) Disputed
4 points

If he was close to the citizens he would know more of what they need wouldn't he? So that is pure guessing.

Side: No, it is Raffles!
Chinni(35) Disputed
1 point

He had to because Farquar started doing things that are illeagal like opium selling? Juz to make money..

Side: No, it is Raffles!
SimBowen(24) Disputed
7 points

I would like to point out that opium selling was not illegal when he started it. So I still feel that he is unjustly treated.

Side: Yes, of course!
GundamRyan(31) Disputed
1 point

When you are the government, your actions are not exactly illegal. Moreover, Farquhar sold opium to earn money FOR the people. Not to harm them.

Side: Yes, of course!
6 points

William Farquhar was sacked. Despite his many positive achievements in the formative period of Singapore's development, he adopted measures in his administration which conflicted with Raffles' instructions, so a lot of people would just ignore Farquhar's contribution and credit them to Raffles

Side: Yes, of course!
lindsay844(1) Disputed
4 points

Raffles was the boss of the Farquhar, Farquhar should have listened to Raffles

Side: No, it is Raffles!
jeremeho(12) Disputed
5 points

Are you saying that a person who did his best to fulfill his superior's instructions and helped him in many other ways should be prosecuted? How is this related to the topic we are debating about?

Side: Yes, of course!
4 points

As lindsay says raffles IS the boss and raffles had plans for the country. And these plans were 'ruined' by farquhar doesn't he have the right to sack him? As a boss he has a good status and shows that he can do a lot to with his position. Probably more contacts than farquhar, and money

Side: No, it is Raffles!
shiying98(19) Disputed
4 points

Do you mean that if a boss instructs his assistant to murder or do illegal things, that assistant MUST listen to him?!

Side: Yes, of course!
Swiftassasin(5) Disputed
3 points

How do you know that only Farquhar contributed,Raffles also contributed

Side: No, it is Raffles!
SimBowen(24) Disputed
4 points

May i know exactly how much he contributed in comparison to William Farquhar?

Side: Yes, of course!
GundamRyan(31) Disputed
4 points

He did not mention anything like that. Raffles also contributed, but it is significantly lesser compared to Farquhar's contributions, which is keeping a country running.

Side: Yes, of course!
jeremeho(12) Disputed
2 points

Could you please state that in what way did Raffles contribute to Singapore, other than the Town Plan, which actually involved forcing people off their land?

Side: Yes, of course!
6 points

Farquar protected Singapore from Dutch attacks and attracted traders to Singapore while Raffles was away.

Side: Yes, of course!
Edwin(11) Disputed
4 points

How does that relate to what we have been talking about? He just merely protected Singapore from Dutch attacks and attracted traders to Singapore, so does that mean that if I protect a poor country from attacks, I am considered its founder? Also, all he did was the continue what Raffles left behind for him, which means that he may already had some help with attracting traders to Singapore, and also, Raffles also wanted to attract traders to Singapore, but he had to return to Bencoolen, so he only attracted a few traders, and Farquhar just continued. Which means that Farquhar is not the actual founder of Singapore. It should be Raffles as he already did all the underlying work and also the foundation of the Singapore Settlement.

Side: No, it is Raffles!
GundamRyan(31) Disputed
1 point

How is defending Singapore from Dutch attacks considered "mere"? He had to defend an entire nation from hostile forces. If he had not done that, Singapore could have been taken over from by Dutch. And what evidence do you have that Raffles helped attract more traders to Singapore?

Side: Yes, of course!
Chinni(35) Disputed
1 point

It was his duty to protect the country he is in charge of ? SO how does it affect?

Side: No, it is Raffles!
6 points

Farquhar was unjustly exiled by Raffles even though William had done a lot to help Singapore.

Side: Yes, of course!
lindsay844(1) Disputed
2 points

Farquhar should have listened to Raffles instead, this way he will not get kicked out.

Side: No, it is Raffles!
GundamRyan(31) Disputed
3 points

What exactly did Raffles say? Do you have evidence that Raffles left instructions for Farquhar?

Side: Yes, of course!
Praveen98(24) Disputed
2 points

There is a reason why Farquhar was exiled.He did not listen to what Raffles said

Side: No, it is Raffles!
GundamRyan(31) Disputed
3 points

Farquhar is unjustly exiled. What evidence is there that shows that Raffles left Farquhar instructions about how to run a country?

Side: Yes, of course!
SimBowen(24) Disputed
3 points

He would have not listened to Raffles if he thought it was not a good idea. For example would you listen to a friend teach you if your ideas were better and correct?

Besides not listening to what people say can get you exiled? Lets say you din't do your homework. The teacher then has the right to kick you out of the school? Sounds a bit harsh if you ask me.

Side: Yes, of course!
Chinni(35) Disputed
1 point

Well, what exactly did Farquar do? How will it be unjust when Farquar started opium selling to make money?

Side: No, it is Raffles!
GundamRyan(31) Disputed
4 points

When you like something very much, you would do anything right? So in this case, Farquhar cared for Singapore and sold opium to make more money to help Singapore develop.

Side: Yes, of course!
jeremeho(12) Disputed
1 point

He needed to raise money to further develop Singapore. Raffles wanted to convince the East India Company that Singapore needed little money and gave back a lot of money back. So he gave Farquhar the near impossible task of running a country with a lack of funds. Farquhar had to resort to selling opium and gambling so he had enough money to run Singapore. If he had not done that, all of Raffles' hard work would have gone to waste.

Side: No, it is Raffles!
6 points

Faruhar carried out the 'grand plan' of Raffles'. Raffles practically just sat there and watched it all go, not even lifting a finger to help. It doesn't matter if Raffles was the head of the so-called operation, Farquhar was the one to DEVELOP Singapore to what it is today.

Side: Yes, of course!
lemoncarissa(11) Disputed
2 points

Can you give me evidence of Raffles "sitting there and watched it all go".

Side: No, it is Raffles!
GundamRyan(31) Disputed
2 points

Raffles did not even help Farquhar while he was doing all the work and went to Britain for a very long time.

Side: Yes, of course!
6 points

Farquhar ordered his men to go to Malacca and bring some food back. The traders in Singapore also brought some of the necessities here.

Side: Yes, of course!
6 points

When Farquar was fired by Raffles, he was given a grander ceremony before he left compared to Raffles, which show how much the people loved him.

Side: Yes, of course!
lemoncarissa(11) Disputed
3 points

How does this relate to William Farquhar has as the rightful founder of Singapore? If he is well loved by the people does not mean he is the founder of Singapore

Side: No, it is Raffles!
SimBowen(24) Disputed
1 point

How does it not? It shows that he had the support of the people. That is what a founder needs. The support.

Side: Yes, of course!
Praveen98(24) Disputed
3 points

Love does not make one a founder of something.If that happened , how many founders will there be in this world?

Side: No, it is Raffles!
SimBowen(24) Disputed
1 point

Lets say a country hated you, would they still let you be the founder of their country?

Side: Yes, of course!
Swiftassasin(5) Disputed
2 points

Farquhar might have done his ceremony using his own expenses.Are you trying to implement that by having more affection you are the founder of an island

Side: No, it is Raffles!
SimBowen(24) Disputed
1 point

Why would he spend money on his own farewell party? He was obviously reluctant to leave as shown by the court battle in which he wanted to go back to Singapore.

Side: Yes, of course!
6 points

There were pests like centipedes and rats all over the island. These pests hurt some people. The rats also destroyed the food supplies. Tigers were also a threat to the people here. He solved it by giving rewards were given to those people who killed these pests.

Side: Yes, of course!
Harindrar(13) Disputed
3 points

Does doing this make someone a founder? I can do that as well.

Side: No, it is Raffles!
GundamRyan(31) Disputed
1 point

How is that related to the question? Just because you can get rid of centipede and rat infestations(which I doubt) does not really relate to the topic right?

Side: Yes, of course!
Swiftassasin(5) Disputed
2 points

These are every day problems during those times.So if you are implementing that if I solve every day problems I am the rightful one

Side: No, it is Raffles!
SimBowen(24) Disputed
1 point

In that context you are quite right. But i would like to point out one thing. Solving problems is not the only thing that makes you a founder. Solving one problem for one person does not make a difference. Farquhar solved MANY problems for MANY people

Side: Yes, of course!
6 points

Even though William had legalized gambling, he did it so that Singapore can prosper, but Raffles had turned it down, leaving Singapore alone.

Side: Yes, of course!
6 points

Farquhar contributed significantly, even forking out his own money to start up the colony carved out of the jungle, by first offering money as an incentive for people to hunt and to exterminate rats and centipedes. Raffles did nothing of that sort.

Side: Yes, of course!
Swiftassasin(5) Disputed
2 points

Are you saying that without Raffles' idea Singapore would still be what it is

Side: No, it is Raffles!
waikitchin(1) Disputed
1 point

Maybe, but then again, without Farquhar, Singapore would still be a run-down place if not for Farquhar

Side: Yes, of course!
6 points

Faquhar solved the problems in Singapore using cash from his own pocket. When Singapore was once infested with rats and centipedes, Farquhar rewarded the people with coins for every pest they catch. This solved the problem quickly, as he held to his promise.

Side: Yes, of course!
lindsay844(1) Disputed
3 points

Farquhar was paid to do so with his huge salary and funds from the EIC

Side: No, it is Raffles!
shiying98(19) Disputed
2 points

He paid using his own money to solve the problems in Singapore. He did not feel selfish, and this proves that he did not do these things for Singapore just for the salary.

Side: Yes, of course!
6 points

There were a lot of pests at that time, and the people were suffering from them. Raffles wasn't around, and William had to think of a solution himself.

Side: Yes, of course!
6 points

Crimes like robbing and fighting often occurred. Farquhar set up a small police force.

Side: Yes, of course!
6 points

Without William Farquhar Singapore would have perished. Only because William was there to govern the country, Singapore continued to exist. Raffles left to govern another country.

Side: Yes, of course!
Chinni(35) Disputed
0 points

Can you give me an example? What did he actually do for Singapore?

Side: No, it is Raffles!
waikitchin(1) Disputed
0 points

And can U give me an example to what Raffles did for Singapore?

Side: Yes, of course!
6 points

To me, a founder would be a leader, well respected by the organisation/group he is managing. Both Raffles and Farquhar were good leaders. However, when William Farquhar was sent off to Britain, more people went to send him off than the combined number of people that sent Raffles off during the three times Raffles left Singapore. This shows that the people of Singapore respected Farquhar more than Raffles, and to them, Farquhar was a more competent leader.

Side: Yes, of course!
Sheares(19) Disputed
2 points

Are you saying that just because more people liked Farquhar, he was a more competent leader or that a leader must be well liked in order to be competent?

Side: No, it is Raffles!
jeremeho(12) Disputed
4 points

What I meant is that the people supported Farquhar's decisions more than Raffles' decisions. Farquhar understood the people more than Raffles did, and was able to solve more problems than Raffles. Farquhar fulfilled the demands of the people, while Raffles forced people off their land just to make the place neater.

Side: Yes, of course!
6 points

The people recognized William Farquhar as the founder because he was there to deal with the country's problems when Raffles failed to be there for them. William Farquhar even took money out of his own pockets to resolve certain issues. When he was forced to leave, the people sent him off with sorrow in their hearts.

Side: Yes, of course!
lemoncarissa(11) Disputed
2 points

Raffles did leave some policies and plans that were important for Singapore's growth before he left. Raffles also had to leave as his boss told him too. If others were to use their own money to help the country or development, does that mean they are the founders too? And being popular does not support Faquhar as the founder of Sinagpore.

Side: No, it is Raffles!
6 points

Raffles doesn’t care about the citizens, doesn’t spare a thought at all.

So what if he discovered the island majulah singapura, he did not help in the least in singapore’s development. so why in the world should he deserve the title of ‘singapore’s founder’?

Farquhar developed the island, with all his ideas contributing to the development.

Side: Yes, of course!
lemoncarissa(11) Disputed
2 points

Why are you saying Raffles did not care for the citizens? Please elaborate or give me an example. If raffles really did not care for Singapore, why would he bother planning for it in the first place?

Side: No, it is Raffles!
1 point

Raffles did the town planning for Singapore so that the people would enjoy living here

Side: No, it is Raffles!
GundamRyan(31) Disputed
1 point

Raffles did not care that much for the citizens as much as Farquhar. Farquhar learnt malay to communicate better with the locals and fixed many everyday problems. Raffles did nothing. He only made a town plan. He set up Singapore because of its location for Britain, not the citizens there.

Side: Yes, of course!
goyanfeng(14) Disputed
2 points

You seem to be assuming that Raffles didn't care for Singapore, how can you verify that assumption?

Side: No, it is Raffles!
Bleah Disputed
1 point

No, that is not true. Raffles planned and visioned Singapore to be well developed according to Raffles Town Plan. He decided that Singapore would be a well-developed colonial country rather than one of those asian countries with slavery, cockfighting, murders, etc.

Side: No, it is Raffles!
5 points

William Farquhar had helped more citizen of Singapore than Raffles did. Raffles was just more of the idea man. William Farquhar was more of a founder of Singapore than Raffles.

Side: Yes, of course!
Sheares(19) Disputed
2 points

Can you provide evidence that Farquhar helped more of the citizens than Raffles? The ideas are the base for Farquhar's contributions. Without a base, how can you hope to build?

Side: No, it is Raffles!
SimBowen(24) Disputed
1 point

If a base is not provided, build one yourself. Make your own ideas.

Side: Yes, of course!
5 points

William made the initiative to understand the locals and to communicate with them. He even learnt Malay just so to make conversation easier.

Side: Yes, of course!
bryanswh(3) Disputed
3 points

Who benefits from it? Learning a new language to communicate with the locals does not make him a founder too

Side: No, it is Raffles!
waikitchin(1) Disputed
3 points

At least he had made and effort to understand their current situation, Raffles had just made use of Singapore as a port.

Side: Yes, of course!
GundamRyan(31) Disputed
1 point

Both William and the locals benefitted from it. Their communication is improved, therefore, they can understand each other perfectly, and can work together properly.

Side: Yes, of course!
GWQ98(10) Disputed
3 points

Raffles also knew Malay and communicated with the people, so why can't he be also considered as the founder?

Side: No, it is Raffles!
Chinni(35) Disputed
1 point

Why is it necessary to consider is it Malay or any other religion?

Side: Yes, of course!
Chinni(35) Disputed
2 points

Who will benefit from it? From learning Malay think only muslims would benefit not the other races ?

Side: No, it is Raffles!
goyanfeng(14) Disputed
1 point

Why are you saying that? Does that mean that just because Farquhar made the initiative to communicate with the locals, he is considered the founder of Singapore?

Side: No, it is Raffles!
5 points

Raffles neglected Singapore when he went around conquering other 'more useful' countries for about FOUR years, leaving all the work to Farquhar to settle. Plus, to drive my point further, the countries that were run by Raffles all ended up BADLY. This shows that Raffles was a bad developer of the country.

Side: Yes, of course!
bryanswh(3) Disputed
3 points

What evidence do you have about Raffles running a country badly? Raffles ran Singapore, so does that mean Singapore is bad?

Side: No, it is Raffles!
Praveen98(24) Disputed
3 points

It was not his choice to leave singapore.He was called back to where he came from

Side: No, it is Raffles!
SimBowen(24) Disputed
1 point

Well if Farquhar was not afraid of his superiors and decided to do whats best for Singapore he had a choice. Same with Raffles, being called back is just an excuse.

Side: Yes, of course!
5 points

Raffles came and left Singapore, returning after a long period of time. Farquar stayed here all the time, and solved many problems. Raffles did not do much at all compared to Farquar.

Side: Yes, of course!
Chinni(35) Disputed
2 points

Are you sure that Raffles did nothing compared to Farquar?

Side: No, it is Raffles!
GundamRyan(31) Disputed
2 points

Raffles did do something, but it is significantly lesser compared to Farquhar's contributions.

Side: Yes, of course!
4 points

It is clear that Stamford Raffles was the basis for the idea but the implementation was left to Farquhar so i believe he is the rightful founder of Singapore. Raffles was just the 'idea man' before the founding but was summoned to Bencoolen by his superiors and did not have much contribution to the founding of Singapore.

Side: Yes, of course!
Chinni(35) Disputed
3 points

How does it affect ? Raffles was still the idea man right?

Side: No, it is Raffles!
4 points

William Farquhar stayed in Singapore longer than Raffles, so Farquhar had more time to get to know the people more, to earn the trust of the people, to find out the problems that the people were facing and to solve those problems

Side: Yes, of course!
3 points

Can you give me an example of Farquhar trying to earn the trust of the people and trying to find out what problems the people were facing?

Side: Yes, of course!
Harindrar(13) Disputed
3 points

If I stay at home for a day am I going to take more time to get to know the people more, to earn the trust of the people, to find out the problems that the people were facing and to solve those problems?

Side: No, it is Raffles!
goyanfeng(14) Disputed
2 points

What would happen if Raffles didn't leave Singapore and stayed in the country with Farquhar ?

Side: No, it is Raffles!
4 points

William Farquhar was removed from his position by Raffles because Farquhar had grown too close to the people. However, knowing the people well is necessary to help Farquhar solve the problems faced by the people.

Side: Yes, of course!
Praveen98(24) Disputed
2 points

Does solving problems make one a founder?He can know the people well and solve problems.What about Tan Tock Seng ? was he the founder of

singapore to know the people well and build a hospital?

Side: No, it is Raffles!
Praveen98(24) Disputed
1 point

And is it because he was too close to the people or because he did not listen to what raffles said?

Side: No, it is Raffles!
4 points

When Farquhar left Singapore, more people were there to send him off than Raffles. This shows that the people recognized Farquhar as their founder, not Raffles

Side: Yes, of course!
bryanswh(3) Disputed
3 points

Many people seeing someone off does not totally mean that the person is very important.

Side: No, it is Raffles!
GundamRyan(31) Disputed
1 point

It is not the amount of people, but the celebration is better compared to the one Raffles had. This shows that the people loved and acknowledged him more compared to Raffles.

Side: Yes, of course!
Harindrar(13) Disputed
2 points

So if I leave singapore and there are 100 people in the airport whereas when a minister leaves there are only 5 I am a minister?

Side: No, it is Raffles!
SimBowen(24) Disputed
2 points

How does this relate to the topic? Ministers and founders are another different thing.

Side: Yes, of course!
Praveen98(24) Disputed
2 points

Farquhar was just raffles' assistant.So what if people liked Farquhar more?Does that make him the founder?

Side: No, it is Raffles!
SimBowen(24) Disputed
1 point

So what if Raffles was the leader? does being a leader make you a founder?

Side: Yes, of course!
1 point

Not Raffles because right after the treaty was signed raffles left for four years so Farquahr had to stay and be in charge of the settlement in singapore. So even if Raffles found singapore and gave it to the british, Raffles only found an island, but Farquhar actually founded SINGAPORE and made it into the colonial singapore we all know and love.

Side: Yes, of course!
9 points

well the definition of founder discussed in class that day that founder was not the person who discovers the place but he is the key in the development of the place and raffles came to singapore and established it on a global level...although it may have been farquhar who suggest this to raffles

Side: No, it is Raffles!
sweetsecrecy(21) Disputed
1 point

Why are you saying that? Raffles did not help in any part of the key development in Singapore; it was all Farquhar's hard work.

Side: Yes, of course!
Sheares(19) Disputed
3 points

Are you saying that a person can be considered a founder just because he did the grunt work? If so, why does the contractor get more salary then the workers at the construction site. The workers obviously do more than their bosses yet they get less

Side: No, it is Raffles!
8 points

Schooling

Raffles established the Singapore Institution ( Now known as Raffles Institution ) which completed its construction on the year 1837.

Side: No, it is Raffles!
GundamRyan(31) Disputed
1 point

How is this related to what we are talking about? Anyone can establish a school, as long as they have the resources. And how does establishing a school make a person founder of a country?

Side: Yes, of course!
sweetsecrecy(21) Disputed
0 points

What has establishing a school got to do with the founding of Singapore? Who does it benefit--> only BOYS

Side: Yes, of course!
Praveen98(24) Disputed
4 points

If it is only for boys,it cant be helped . People were biased towards boys at that time

Side: No, it is Raffles!
SimBowen(24) Disputed
0 points

If Raffle institution was names Farquhar Institution then what would happen? Would your idea of a founder change to be Farquhar?

Side: Yes, of course!
3 points

I agree. If more landmarks and places be named after him, more people will be more bias towards him.

Side: Yes, of course!
8 points

Even though Raffles sacked Farquhar when he came back to Singapore, this was because Farquhar was adopting measures that were not approved by Raffles. I believe Farquhar was adopting measures that were indirectly harmful to the population and Raffles sacked him for the best interests of Singapore's population at heart

Side: No, it is Raffles!
GundamRyan(31) Disputed
2 points

On what authority are you basing your argument? How did you know Raffles sacked Farquhar with the best interests of Singapore at heart and not sack him due to other reasons? And what are some examples of the measures that Farquhar made that were indirectly harmful to the population?

Side: Yes, of course!
3 points

From what I know, Raffles sacked Farquhar based on the fact that Farquhar did not exactly follow the plan that he had done up for Singapore, but instead changed it a little-->putting the PEOPLE'S interests at heart. While Raffles just wants to stick to his plans, THINKING it will benefit the people of Singapore. So on what grounds has Raffles to sack Farquhar?

Side: Yes, of course!
6 points

It was undoubtedly Raffles' ambition and vision which led him to search for another British base in the Straits of Malacca, and to select Singapore as the best location to achieve British economic and strategic objectives in the region. Without Raffles, it is likely that Singapore would have remained a sparsely inhabited island, on the margins of the Dutch colonial empire in the East Indies.

Side: No, it is Raffles!
JenniferTay(40) Disputed
8 points

Raffles had only worked in Singapore for a few years, and contributed little to Singapore’s development.

Side: Yes, of course!
jeremeho(12) Disputed
1 point

So what if he did not? Sooner or later, someone else would have discovered Singapore

Side: Yes, of course!
6 points

Before leaving Singapore, Raffles did leave some plans and policies that were important for the development of the settlement.

Side: No, it is Raffles!
shiying98(19) Disputed
4 points

Can you give me an example? What are some of the plans and policies? If those were good plans, did he carry them out?

Side: Yes, of course!
chelzea(13) Disputed
2 points

You seem to be assuming that William Farquhar actually went through with Raffles' plans. What evidence is there is support what you have said?

Side: Yes, of course!
lindsay844(1) Disputed
2 points

It was because of Farquhar reluctance to follow the plans that raffles fired him

Side: No, it is Raffles!
sweetsecrecy(21) Disputed
2 points

Yes, he did leave some pans and policies. But in the end, did he carry it out? What would the consequences be if Farquhar wasn't there to CARRY OUT his plans and modify it for the good of the people of Singapore, having the citizens' interests at heart?

Side: Yes, of course!
6 points

Although Farquhar was said to be the one who stayed in Singapore to support its development, Raffles provided the planning, the strategizing, and was the one to select Singapore as another British base, giving early Singapore support of the British. If William Farquhar was to be proclaimed the founder because he did the "grunt work", shouldn't the supervisor of a construction site get the most commission, instead of the contractor? And besides, Raffles left Singapore under the orders of his superiors and he did not leave of free will

Side: No, it is Raffles!
GundamRyan(31) Disputed
1 point

Do you have proof that Raffles provided detailed strategies and plans or Singapore? And if what you say is true, that means the leader of Britain is the founder of Singapore, not Raffles.

Side: Yes, of course!
6 points

Some would say that raffles left singapore for a few years and left farquer incharge therefore he negleted us. Imagine SST Ngee Ann Poly and NTU have done so much for us and are considered the founders of us are you trying to imply that because now they are back taking care OF THEIR OWN SCHOOLS. Another good example would be if Lee Hsien Lioeng took a day off for family time would you say he is not our prime minister anymore? Would you say he is neglecting singapore? He has a life!

Side: No, it is Raffles!
Dylan(7) Disputed
3 points

Raffles left Singapore for a few years, whereas the examples that you are giving are not related to the subject at all. Now, imagine the prime minister taking a day off. Would Singapore collapse? Now, Ngee Ann Poly and NTU just help to further improve on SST. SST still has to run itself. The founder has to take care of it, not depend on others related to it.

Side: Yes, of course!
Dylan(7) Disputed
3 points

Raffles left Singapore for a few years, whereas the examples that you are giving are not related to the subject at all. Now, imagine the prime minister taking a day off. Would Singapore collapse? Now, Ngee Ann Poly and NTU just help to further improve on SST. SST still has to run itself. The founder has to take care of it, not depend on others related to it.

Side: Yes, of course!
SimBowen(24) Disputed
1 point

These matters are two different things. Prime ministers are prime ministers and founders are founders you are looking at it from the wrong angle.

Side: Yes, of course!
Harindrar(13) Disputed
3 points

They have both very important jobs by the way, and live hard lives. I am just trying to state an example to be referred to and an argument to a point I have seen.

Side: No, it is Raffles!
Huitinggggg Disputed
1 point

All SST Ngee Ann Poly and NTU has done is to groom us in our studies. Are they in your whole life? No. Besides, a human cannot have a founder. You own your body! Lee Hsien Long taking a day off is insignificant to all the days he were present. Raffles absent for many years is considered significant to the 200 days he spent in Singapore. You don't make sense!!!

Side: Yes, of course!
6 points

Raffles found that Farquhar had done a bad job of raising the city of Singapore, he also introduced opium selling into Singapore in order to raise more money to build Singapore.

Side: No, it is Raffles!
SimBowen(24) Disputed
2 points

Are you saying that William Farquhar's contributions were bad? or just that Raffles introducing opium selling were better than William Farquhar good contributions?

Side: Yes, of course!
sweetsecrecy(21) Disputed
1 point

If Farquhar had done a bad job of 'raising' the city of Singapore, then Raffles did worse. Not only because he left Singapore to Farquhar, the countries of which Raffles took care of were in dire straits.

Side: Yes, of course!
5 points

It was Raffles who signed the treaty with the Sultan Hussein,not Farquhar. Farquhar was just Raffles subordinate.

Side: No, it is Raffles!
jeremeho(12) Disputed
4 points

Do you mean that it's fair for Raffles, who just signed the treaty and ran off, to receive more credit than Farquhar, who went through tight budgets to make a better life for our forefathers?

Side: Yes, of course!
2 points

I agree. He just ran off and let Farquhuar play the role of a 'mother' to Singapore!

Side: Yes, of course!
5 points

Raffles was the person that signed the treaty with the temenggung and claimed Singapore for the British people not Farquhar

Side: No, it is Raffles!
shiying98(19) Disputed
1 point

Is this reason good enough? This may be biased. The temenggung may be biased and may have chosen to sign with Raffles instead.

Side: Yes, of course!
lindsay844(1) Disputed
3 points

No it was Raffles that asked for the treaty. Since he was the leader of the expedition,he was assigned to sign the treaty

Side: No, it is Raffles!
5 points

Sir Raffles is the rightful founder because ,he increased the economy of Singapore by using the Straits of Malacca as a trading route. He established free trade and thus many people came to Singapore to trade with each other, boosting Singapore's economy.

Side: No, it is Raffles!
GundamRyan(31) Disputed
1 point

What is the point of that statement? If what you are saying is true, anyone that increases the economy is a founder. And how does using the Straits of Malacca as a trading route to increase the economy makes a person as a founder?

Side: Yes, of course!
5 points

Raffles conceived a town plan to remodel Singapore into a modern city. The plan consisted of separate areas for different ethnic groups and provision of other facilities such as roads, schools and lands for government buildings. In October 1822, a Town Plan Committee was formed by Raffles to oversee the project.

Side: No, it is Raffles!
5 points

Raffles established local magistrate in Singapore.This local magistrate led to activities such as public gambling and slavery to be controlled Farquar protected Singapore from the Dutch attacks and attracted traders to Singapore while Raffles was away.

Side: No, it is Raffles!
5 points

Raffles had a vision for Singapore that it will be an orderly, elegant, rational and modern and he worked towards it. And while Raffles was gone, Farquhar only help to modify Singapore a little.

Side: No, it is Raffles!
chelzea(13) Disputed
1 point

You seem to be assuming that Raffles had already transformed Singapore into an orderly, elegant, rational and modern country.

Side: Yes, of course!
Praveen98(24) Disputed
2 points

Raffles had a vision for Singapore that it will be an orderly, elegant, rational and modern and he worked towards it. And while Raffles was gone, Farquhar only help to modify Singapore a little.

She is not assuming..."Raffles had a VISION for Singapore...."

Side: No, it is Raffles!
sweetsecrecy(21) Disputed
1 point

He may have worked towards it, but mainly, he left the job to Farquhar to finish. He contributed little, not as much as you assumed.

Side: Yes, of course!
5 points

Raffles conceived a town plan to remodel Singapore into a modern city. The plan consisted of separate areas for different ethnic groups and provision of other facilities such as roads, schools and lands for government buildings. In October 1822, a Town Plan Committee was formed by Raffles to oversee the project.

Side: No, it is Raffles!
5 points

To be able to have a succeful trading port you must have good contacts with many people and raffles had those contacts without him we would not have a trading port at all! I would like to mention that raffles had all the important qualities of a founder and he was in good position to do so. He invested a lot and we therefore credit him as our founder! We say Obama is the “founder” of health reform WHY because he was in such a high position and he could do something like invest money time and effort in such a project.

Side: No, it is Raffles!
5 points

On 28 January 1819,Raffles came to Singapore. When Raffles saw the good location of Singapore and he signed a agreement with the Sultan of Johor on behalf of the British East India Company on February 1819 to use the southern part of Singapore as a British trading post and settlement.

Side: No, it is Raffles!
5 points

Raffles was the one who came to Singapore in 1819 and improved it by setting up trade. He improved the economy which is very important to a country.

Side: No, it is Raffles!
5 points

Raffles was the person who signed a treaty with the Temenggong and also the Sultan Hussien, and not William Farquhar. I agree that William Farquhar was the one that remained in Singapore to keep it running and also developed it further, but Raffles was the one who gave him the position because he had to leave and return to Bencoolen, also, he was the one who laid out the foundation of Singapore's Development, so he should be considered a founder.

Side: No, it is Raffles!
shiying98(19) Disputed
1 point

A founder should be devoted to the country and do what is best for it. Raffles should not have left a huge pile of work for Farquhar and leave, and only returning some time later. He should stay in Singapore to continue helping in the development of the country. You seem to be assuming that a founder can just leave the work to his assistants after directing the job.

Side: Yes, of course!
lindsay844(1) Disputed
2 points

He had been ordered to by his bosses from the East India Company.

Side: No, it is Raffles!
5 points

Even though it was Farquhar who was responsible for most of Singapore's development, it was Raffles who wanted to make Singapore a trading port, so if Raffles hadn't set eyes on Singapore at that time, Farquhar wouldn't have been able to accomplish this.

Side: No, it is Raffles!
5 points

When Raffles came back to Singapore after leaving Farquar in charge . Farquar had done something bad.. He started opium selling in order to make money..

Side: No, it is Raffles!
waikitchin(1) Disputed
2 points

Are u saying that opium selling was bad? Singapore was not earning money and the people were poor, what if opium selling was a desperate situation?

Side: Yes, of course!
5 points

Even though it is true that Raffles did not work closely with the population to develop Singapore, he provided plans, ideas and was going to put them in action by himself when his superiors ordered him to Bencoolen. Hence it was common sense for Raffles to leave his subordinate to finish his ideas

Side: No, it is Raffles!
4 points

The Singapore Treaty is signed between Raffles,Sultan Hussein and the Temenggong with Commandant under the accompanying seven ships witnessing the event.

Side: No, it is Raffles!
GundamRyan(31) Disputed
4 points

Just because you signed a Treaty does not make you a founder right? Treaties are made by countries everywhere, yet there are no founders as a result of them.

Side: Yes, of course!
Sherwinseah(20) Disputed
2 points

How sure are you that they witness? Maybe all are all lying?

Side: Yes, of course!
4 points

The Singapore Treaty is signed between Raffles,Sultan Hussein and the Temenggong with Commandant under the accompanying seven ships witnessing the event.

Side: No, it is Raffles!
4 points

It was Raffles that led the expedition in order to find a new trading port. Farquhar only tagged along with Raffles. So even if Farquhar did not come Raffles would have still founded Singapore.

Side: No, it is Raffles!
waikitchin(1) Disputed
2 points

How do you know this? If Farquhar had not "tagged" along, Singapore would not be a trading port at all!

Side: Yes, of course!
Sheares(19) Disputed
3 points

If Farquhar had not come along, there would be other subordinates of Raffles to take his place. Therefore, logically, Farquhar was not an irreplaceable person in Singapore's founding. But without Raffles ideas, Singapore would be very different. Although Farquhar did affect Singapore's development, it was minimal. His contributions were still largely dependent on Raffles ideas and aspirations

Side: No, it is Raffles!
Edwin(11) Disputed
2 points

Can you rephrase that, please? How about if Raffles had not travelled the ocean, he may not have founded modern Singapore and William Farquhar may not even know where Singapore was, or maybe he may not even contribute to any settlement at all.

Side: No, it is Raffles!
Dylan(7) Disputed
2 points

Think, if Farquhar had not followed. Raffles had to leave for Bencoolen shortly after, whatever he had planned for would immediately have crumbled as he left for a long time and his plans would have no action taken. It would all perish as a horrible experiment.

Side: Yes, of course!
4 points

FOUNDER IS NOT A PERSON WHO “DISCOVERS” A PLACE if so i can say the prince Sanila Utama is the founder of singapore!(this for some who say farquhar saw the island first) And I do know that farquer has been very involved in this help and sometimes even does all the work but let me remind you that being raffles “assistant” he still had to consult raffles and raffles had all authority over Singapore therefore he was given credit. Then i would like to ask u a question why then does the names “raffles institution” “raffles hospital” raffles medical clinics”

Side: No, it is Raffles!
Sherwinseah(20) Disputed
2 points

It could be Farquhar who found the country and told it to Raffles. Raffles implanted a plan of naming some buildings under his name.

Side: Yes, of course!
chelzea(13) Disputed
2 points

You seem to be implying that Raffles could have been sitting around and just letting Farquhar do the work and Raffles would still have been given credit for whatever Farquhar has achieved for Singapore just because Raffles had full authority over Singapore.

Side: Yes, of course!
4 points

When Raffles came back after a period of time, he changed rules and concepts Farquhar had set according to the people’s needs. This can show that he cares for the people.

Side: No, it is Raffles!
sweetsecrecy(21) Disputed
1 point

Yes, that is when Raffles totally neglected Singapore for FOUR ENTIRE years. Assuming that Raffles did change the rules, what rules did he change, according to the people's needs?

Side: Yes, of course!
4 points

Raffles was followed by Farquhar during his visit to Singapore.This shows that Raffles saw Singapore before Farquhar making him the founder

Side: No, it is Raffles!
waikitchin(1) Disputed
2 points

How does this affect the founder ship? Raffles did not do much for Singapore, everything was left to Farquhar to do!

Side: Yes, of course!
4 points

Raffles was responsible for Singapore's boost of economy

He increased the economy of Singapore by using the Straits of Malacca as a trading route.

He established free trade and thus many people came to Singapore to trade with each other, boosting Singapore's economy.

Raffles was responsible for Singapore's boost of economy

Side: No, it is Raffles!
chelzea(13) Disputed
3 points

If this is so then why did Farquhar need to sell opium to support the country?

Side: Yes, of course!
jeremeho(12) Disputed
1 point

Your first and last statements are the same. I advise you that you should be more careful next time.

Side: Yes, of course!
4 points

IF YOU go live in that olden time conditions in just one month in those conditions it would be a surprise if you did not catch a disease every single day.hospitals was one thing raffles built and that would have saved so many people in those times because the living there was conditions were bad. another reason he has helped on the development

Side: No, it is Raffles!
sweetsecrecy(21) Disputed
3 points

So you mean Tan Tock Seng is the founder of Singapore too?

Side: Yes, of course!
waikitchin(1) Disputed
2 points

Raffles was trying to solve the problem of disease, Farquhar directed his solution to the source of the disease.

Side: Yes, of course!
Sherwinseah(20) Disputed
2 points

If you think that building a hospital is very great, won't Farquhar be very great too as there were pests like centipedes and rats all over the island. These pests hurt some people. The rats also destroyed the food supplies. Tigers were also a threat to the people here. Farquhar rewarded money to those who killed the pest and the money came from himself

Side: Yes, of course!
4 points

It was undoubtedly Raffles' ambition and vision which led him to search for another British base in the Straits of Malacca, and to select Singapore as the best location to achieve British economic and strategic objectives in the region. Without Raffles, it is likely that Singapore would have remained a sparsely inhabited island, on the margins of the Dutch colonial empire in the East Indies.

Side: No, it is Raffles!
SimBowen(24) Disputed
1 point

It was his ambition but mostly Farquhar's work that got Singapore to where we are today.

Side: Yes, of course!
4 points

Raffles founded Singapore and Farquhar was just a subordinate for Raffles. So it was normal that Raffles gave he duty of turning Singapore into a successful city and left the city to Farquhar to handle.

Side: No, it is Raffles!
4 points

He revived the cultural heritage of the region by setting up schools for the Chinese and Malays and did a lot for the people while Farquhar just wanted to gain control through his actions.

Side: No, it is Raffles!
farrellnah(25) Disputed
2 points

Can you give me an example of how Farquhar wanted to gain control of Singapore instead of wanting to make Singapore a better place?

Side: Yes, of course!
SimBowen(24) Disputed
2 points

I believe if he wanted control over Singapore (which I think he did not) it would only be for the good of Singapore.

Side: Yes, of course!
4 points

Raffles established local magistrate in Singapore.This local magistrate led to activities such as public gambling and slavery to be controlled.

Side: No, it is Raffles!
SimBowen(24) Disputed
0 points

How does establishing a local magistrate make you a founder?? Example:I come to a country and appoint a magistrate. YAY! I'M A FOUNDER!!

Is that what you are trying to say??

Side: Yes, of course!
4 points

Raffles had written his discovery wrongly as 29 February 1819.It was later corrected. He thought he had discovered Singapore on his firs journey

Side: No, it is Raffles!
farrellnah(25) Disputed
2 points

How does this affect the founding of Singapore? No matter which date it was founded, Singapore was still founded. I don't think there would be any changes if SIngapore was founded later or earlier.

Side: Yes, of course!
3 points

Raffles was the one who stopped Singapore from being taken by the Dutch, as the Dutch were upset that Singapore would be taken by the British. but Raffles stop the Dutch from taking Singapore. If it had not been for Raffles, the Dutch would have taken Singapore.

Side: No, it is Raffles!
SimBowen(24) Disputed
0 points

May i ask HOW exactly does that make him the founder? lets say the army stops other countries from taking over Singapore, does that mean the army is (in fact, are!)

founders?

Side: Yes, of course!
2 points

HE HAS A BOSS(RAFFLES) HE HAS TO FOLLOW HIM AND NOT GO ABOUT DOING ANYTHING ELSE IF THEN WHY CANT FARQUHAR HELP SINGAPORE AFTER HE WAS FIRED!!! I SAID HE DOES NOT HAVE THE POSITION TO BE THE FOUNDER!!!!

Farquhar has a boss!(raffles) he has to follow raffles and not go about doing anything else if then why cant farquhar help singapore after he was fired? I say again you do need to be in a certain position to be a founder as time, money, effort is all invested. You must know people who would help you.

Side: No, it is Raffles!
1 point

Farquhar spoilt Raffles plan and developed Singapore poorly. Raffles was the BOSS and ought to have much more power and rights than Farquhar.

Side: No, it is Raffles!
2 points

Farquhar has a boss!(raffles) he has to follow raffles and not go about doing anything else if then why cant farquhar help singapore after he was fired? I say again you do need to be in a certain position to be a founder as time, money, effort is all invested. You must know people who would help you.

Side: No, it is Raffles!
SimBowen(24) Disputed
2 points

He did go to court to argue to be reinstated. That is one way he tried to get back to Singapore and help. You can't say that he did not do anything else. His appeal was crush by the judge so what could he have done??

Side: Yes, of course!
Praveen98(24) Disputed
1 point

So what if he goes to court to be reinstated?

Even if he got reinstated , he will not be suddenly called the founder.The judge is right!He did not listen to Raffles orders and because of that , got fired.

Side: No, it is Raffles!
shiying98(19) Disputed
1 point

Farquhar made some decisions on his own to help Singapore as well. He paid the people out of his own pocket to settle the issues in Singapore. What would happen if Farquhar was not around?

Side: Yes, of course!
Praveen98(24) Disputed
2 points

Isn't paying them out of his own pocket considered bribery?

Side: No, it is Raffles!
lindsay844(1) Disputed
1 point

He had funding from the East India Company because they were claiming it from the British so the Brits funded him

Side: No, it is Raffles!
2 points

Definition of Founder

found·er

Noun

A person who establishes an institution or settlement

Raffles was the person who established that Singapore should be a trading port, and he was the one with the visions and goals for Singapore. I do agree that Faquhar contributed alot, maybe even more than Raffles did in the growth of Singapore as a country, but Raffles was the person who FOUNDED it. Also, during the reign of Faquhar, he allowed gambling, cock fighting, secret societies and crimes to take place without harsh punishment. Thus its somewhat incorrect to say that his contributions were without flaw. However, when Raffles came back to Singapore, he decided to put in place law and order to prevent this, and so we can see that he did actually contribute to the growth of Singapore as well.

Side: No, it is Raffles!
1 point

No.If you research about FarQuhar.He didn't do anything to help Singapore while Raffles was away,instead of doing anything he just made a big mess and allowed things like vice,crimes and gambling dens carry on.

Side: No, it is Raffles!
1 point

Raffles was the boss of farquhar and thus should be the founder of Singapore sine he was the leader and had more rights than farquhar. In addition, farquhar did not carry out his duties responsibilily and allowed slaves, cockfighting and murders everywhere in Singapore. Singapore was so poorly developed that Raffles was unhappy.

Side: No, it is Raffles!
1 point

Raffles had a vision for Singapore that it will be an orderly, elegant, rational and modern and he worked towards it. And while Raffles was gone, Farquhar developed Singapore poorly causing Raffles to feel dissappointed.

Side: No, it is Raffles!
1 point

Founding means someone who put a country into hands and control it, the boss. Raffles was the one who stopped Singapore from being taken by the Dutch, as the Dutch were upset that Singapore would be taken by the British. but Raffles stop the Dutch from taking Singapore. If it had not been for Raffles, the Dutch would have taken Singapore.

Side: No, it is Raffles!