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 Without Mantra, can you explain what being "a believer" got to do with ignorance? (27)

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jeffreyone(1137) pic



Without Mantra, can you explain what being "a believer" got to do with ignorance?

The Vice president of Donald Trump is a strong believer, extremist conservative... with the depth of his knowledge and magnitude of his position.
There are top Scientists/Engineers/Doctors/etc. who equally posses the highest depth of knowledge as their fellows that their universities, Fields of expertise and the world could offer....but because they have religious affilitions somehow people think they have the right to tag them as ignorant and less intelligent...
and i mean this is outright insult to their hardwork over so many years of money and time spending, health risks they had to overcome just to acquire the current knowledge they have... but they are now projected as inferior in intelligence...
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2 points

Being a believer does not make you ignorant. What makes you ignorant is if you use being a believer to:

Censor or ignore anything from nonbelievers or different believers

Block or abolish processes (like science) which challenge beliefs

Be mean to those who do not believe or are different believers

And the reason those three scenarios tie to ignorance is you are then actively suppressing the competition of ideas and the discovery of new information.

But if you can be a believer and not do those things then cheers to you.

Dermot(3644) Banned
1 point

Most Christian believers aren't ignorant or less intelligent than atheists they're just victims of indoctrination and had no choice in the matter as they were merely infants when first introduced to the concept of god ( mostly ) The reason a Christian is a Christian is mostly because his / her parents are , if born in Saudi Arabia the same Christians would be a Muslim

Choice rarely comes into it unless if one on reaching maturity changes religion or embraces rationality and becomes an atheist , agnostic etc ,etc .

2 points

Most Christian believers aren't ignorant or less intelligent than atheists they're just victims of indoctrination and had no choice in the matter as they were merely infants when first introduced to the concept of god ( mostly ) The reason a Christian is a Christian is mostly because his / her parents are , if born in Saudi Arabia the same Christians would be a Muslim.

Definitely agree with this.

jeffreyone(1137) Disputed
1 point

With Myopia the mother of your clicheric mantra, are you saying there are no saudi arabian,chinese natives who are christians and european natives who are muslims but didn't meet those religions from infancy but rather old matured ages...perhaps even after graduating from the university?

3 points

With Myopia the mother of your clicheric mantra, are you saying there are no saudi arabian,chinese natives who are christians and european natives

He said "most", not "all", you goddamned idiot.

Dermot(3644) Disputed Banned
1 point

You've misused two terms as in "myopia " and "mantra " and then compound that by using a gooblegook term of your own invention

..... YOU ASK .... are you saying there are no saudi arabian,chinese natives who are christians and european natives who are muslims but didn't meet those religions from infancy but rather old matured ages...perhaps even after graduating from the university?.....

NO I'M NOT , get your helper to assist with your woeful lack of comprehension

Belief implies that you accept something as true without actually knowing whether it is true or not which is fundamentally ignorant. There is essentially no use for belief, the entire concept of belief is insane because everything that is not a fact should be open for examination, in fact, even facts should be open to examination because a lot of the time the established "facts" get proven wrong, so you shouldn't even believe in facts. You shouldn't believe in jack shit, because no one really knows jack shit for the most part, especially the schizophrenic barbarians from the bronze ages who wrote the bible.

jeffreyone(1137) Disputed
1 point

Belief implies that you accept something as true without actually knowing whether it is true or not which is fundamentally ignorant.

you have just said it..without backing up as usual. That is what i term mantra.

because everything that is not a fact should be open for examination, in fact, even facts should be open to examination because a lot of the time the established "facts" get proven wrong, so you shouldn't even believe in facts.

Has any religion restricted you from examining their doctrine?

If no, can you show any examinations you have taken to affirm your position?

If yes, which religion? and how do they restrict you?

1 point

Has any religion restricted you from examining their doctrine?

The entire concept of religion is that you are supposed to believe something without examining it scientifically.

There are top Scientists/Engineers/Doctors/etc. who equally posses the highest depth of knowledge as their fellows that their universities, Fields of expertise and the world could offer....but because they have religious affilitions somehow people think they have the right to tag them as ignorant and less intelligent..

I remember that Dawkins looked into this in The God Delusion and discovered about 4 percent of scientists are actually religious in the traditional sense.

jeffreyone(1137) Disputed
1 point

If you will appeal to authorities, please appeal to intelligent ones especially not religious leaders like dawkins(Pope of atheism).

You were just not born to think.

1 point

@jefferyone, "The Vice president of Donald Trump is a strong believer, extremist conservative... with the depth of his knowledge and magnitude of his position...."

Are you suggesting that Pence has a deep knowledge and understanding of the nature of reality analogous to a respectable scientist? Do you think that Pence is amongst humanities "greatest minds"? I'm genuinely confused why you would want to invoke the Vice President as a strong Religious believer and claim compatibility with deep knowledge, intellect, and understand of what we know to be true/or probable about the Universe/World (e.i. point him out as a "big hitter" on your team). I understand why you would want to claim esteemed Scientists/Engineers/Medical doctors/ect. to your team but Pence I would think you want to distance yourself from people like Pence, Sarah Palin, ect. Do you think Sarah Palin/George Bush/McCain/Romney are up there with humanities great minds as well thus demonstrating the compatibility of strong religious faith and learnedness and intellect?

jeffreyone(1137) Disputed
1 point

Do you think that Pence is amongst humanities "greatest minds"?

Perhaps.

I chose him because he fits perfectly the criteria for my point making and nothing personal.

I was looking for a man of high knowlegde or a highly educated man, of a reputable social status and popular so that everyone can easily relate to and most importantly attached to these qualities, is a believer.

So i can ask why such a man who is no where close to illiteracy is not atheist??

Are you right to overlook his intellect and call him dumb just because he is a believer??

xMathFanx(673) Clarified
1 point

@jeffreyone. To be clear, before I directly respond to your points, you are arguing that you think Sarah Palin/George Bush/McCain/Romney/Michael Pence are up the with humanities greatest minds, and are in no way illiterate with respect to knowledge and understanding of a very broad range of salient topics concerning our modern world? Do you accept everyone in this grouping as fitting that category, is there anyone you would not want to include in this group or just specifically stick to Pence?

On a side point, I agree that there are very intelligent, literate people who are religious. There is a problem with the term "religious" or "believer" however, because it gives you very little information about what it is they believe and to what extent (e.i. are they 100% sure, do they have some level of probability attached to their belief). Now, you will find that people who are religious and highly intelligent/literate are on some scale of religious moderate nearly out of necessity because if you are a Fundamentalist religious believer (of essentially any religion) those beliefs are completely out of step and in contradiction to what we know to be true (probably true) about reality as well being adamant about a belief (100% certainty) when the evidence is poor to lacking entirely is not at all a enlightened vision of the world, epistemology, ect.

1 point

@jeffreyone-

Be honest, you rode the short bus to school didn't you?

jeffreyone(1137) Disputed
1 point

i don't know what a short bus is but i used to ride a one tyre acrobatic cycle to school.

Do you believe me....?