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Liberalism at its best Liberalism is mental illness
Debate Score:9
Arguments:13
Total Votes:15
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 Liberalism at its best (3)
 
 Liberalism is mental illness (2)

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Liberals take us back to medievial, religious, blasphemy laws

Woman who insulted the Prophet Mohammed loses free speech case at the European Court of Human Rights

The court upheld an Austrian woman’s conviction for 'attack on the Prophet of Islam'

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.thenational.ae/world/europe/woman-who-insulted-the-prophet-mohammed-loses-free-speech-case-at-the-european-court-of-human-rights-1.784583

Liberalism at its best

Side Score: 6
VS.

Liberalism is mental illness

Side Score: 3
0 points

Classical liberalism IS the best.

This ruling of the ironically named European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) is NOT classical liberalism, but precisely the oppressive governmental overreach that classical liberalism developed to oppose.

People often forget that the vast majority of the people called conservatives in Europe and the US are the ones who continue to hold the values and philosophy of classical liberalism. By doing that, these faux liberals try to hide that the vast majority of people called leftist and many called liberals are actually AGAINST the freedoms and personal accountability (ensconced in the sanctity of the individual) that classical liberalism is focused on protecting.

The very illiberal "liberals" in Europe and the US seek to sacrifice the right to behave and speak, and ultimately think freely in order to enforce the sort of societal peace that only comes from the oppression of the masses who do not buy into their particularly oppressive vision .

Consider the ruling of the ECHR.

The European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) ruled that courts in Austria, where the woman was found guilty, had balanced the "right to freedom of expression with the right of others to have their religious feelings protected, and served the legitimate aim of preserving religious peace in Austria."

That sounds really nice until one stops to think about the ramifications of protecting one's feelings (religious or otherwise) at the expense of the freedoms of others.

We all have feelings, and they are in opposition to the feelings of others. Lots of people with all sorts of different ideas and beliefs feel anger or hurt or humiliation when presented with ideas they disagree with or with facts that countermand beliefs to which they are emotionally attached. If left unchecked, governmental protection of feelings can go one of two ways.

- 1 - One possibility is that free expression, including speech, art, writing, the press, and even scientific discovery all go away for everyone simply because somebody's feelings might get hurt. Society becomes silent and static, and ultimately withers away in fear and weakness and poverty.

We only get this option if everybody is very lucky.

- 2 The other possibility is that free expression, including speech, art, writing, the press, and even scientific discovery all go away for everyone EXCEPT those in power. However well-intentioned it is when it starts, government becomes Orwell's "boot stamping on a human face — forever."

Side: Liberalism at its best
-1 points

So, capitalist is right because animals do it but free speech is right because less civilised civilisations didn't do it... Okay.

Side: Liberalism at its best
2 points

If the woman had insulted Jesus Christ, as most of the Liberal world does, she would have made it on the Good Morning America TV show.

The hypocritical phoniness of Liberals is so easy to see if you are not one of their low end voters.

The Left hates Christianity, and are willing to support Islam (no matter it supports everything they say they hate). This is how far they will go to demonize Christianity.

Christianity is at odds with their no fault anything goes humanistic Socialized Government.

Christianity teaches people to live responsible moral lives, and most times because of this, having no need to live off a big corrupt Government.

The Left wants people living irresponsible immoral lives so that they create a dependency on Government from the many problems in their lives, and voting for those politicians who will take other's money to support their irresponsibility.

Side: Liberalism is mental illness
marcusmoon(578) Clarified
1 point

FW,

The Left hates Christianity, and are willing to support Islam (no matter it supports everything they say they hate). This is how far they will go to demonize Christianity.

I think you are mischaracterizing the left, here.

I don't see anything to indicate the left cares about morality, one way or another. Certainly the traditional values and moral codes of modern Islam are far stricter than those of modern Christianity, yet the Euro-American left advocate for catering to Muslim religious culture, and for intolerance of Christian cultural values.

I think this is just a symptom of what is actually going on in leftist thinking.

Near as I can tell, The Euro-American left feels shame and guilt for the prosperity and freedom that have grown out of Western culture and values, including (but not limited to) modern Christian values, free market capitalism, and classical liberalism. Everywhere these values have taken root, freedom and prosperity have bloomed.

However, most cultures that have not embraced these values have languished and failed to advance into free and prosperous societies. Many on the left blame this on Western society and values, colonialism, capitalism, etc.. As a result of this, they seek to undermine the values in the West, and supplant them with the values of other cultures, never acknowledging that what makes many of these societies so poor and oppression-ridden are the same cultural attitudes and behaviors the left seeks to import into the West.

It seems to me this is NOT the result of bad intentions, but rather of good intentions combined with bad logic.

The Left wants people living irresponsible immoral lives so that they create a dependency on Government from the many problems in their lives, and voting for those politicians who will take other's money to support their irresponsibility.

I can see why you would think that, but I think you are assuming people on the left are malicious, rather than foolish.

(Frankly, folly and bad logic cause far more pain and havoc than malice ever hopes to cause.)

On the other hand, I think most on the left are kind people with inadequate thinking skills and a belief that it is impossible for adults to effectively run our own lives without leftist (government) intervention.

I cannot accent enough that I believe that there is NOTHING more destructive of human liberty, prosperity, and dignity than the combination of good intentions with bad logic.

Don't misunderstand me, please. The resulting actions of such a combination are violations of the Ten Commandments and many other moral codes. In this case, it is on the left, but it happens on the far right, too. People become so tied up in their belief that their way is the only right way, and that the end they want is so "virtuous" that any means is justified.

This is how the left comes to justify the covetousness and theft intrinsic to socialism.

This is how the Medieval Christian Church justified the murder and torture of the Inquisition.

This is how Islam justifies the oppression of women and the enslavement and murder of non-Muslims.

This is how Nazis justified wholesale slaughter.

This is how Fascists justified force-feeding dissidents castor oil until they publicly shat themselves to death.

This is how the ECHR justify stealing freedom of speech from the many in service the comfort of the few.

Side: Liberalism at its best
FromWithin(6937) Clarified
1 point

Thank you for your well written response to my argument, and doing so without mindless insults.

Both you and I can see the damage caused from this Euro-American socialistic ideology, built on a supposed Liberal compassionate tolerance for those they call less fortunate, and embracing it with what you call "bad logic".

We are both capable of seeing the destructive side of this no fault anything goes amoral socialistic ideology, but we disagree on the motive and sincerity of their thirst for power.

First of all I agree there are some Liberals (non politicians) who have bought into this notion of a socialized utopia, and who do so out of foolishness rather than a political maliciousness.

The problem I have with these so called compassionate tolerant people is how easily they fall into line with the extremely Liberal, extremely hard line factions controlling the Democrat Party.

For one to so easily embrace No Restriction abortions... to so easily embrace the censorship of religious expression such as displaying, or not displaying, nativity scenes on public grounds, all under the lie of so called "separation of Church and State".

No one on the Right ever wanted a theocracy whereby a big federal Government forces every community to display nativity scenes, but this is what the deceptive Left tries to claim.

As always the Left uses scare tactics to facilitate the censorship of what they do not like.

You are suggesting, that for many Liberals, their hearts are in the right place, while I am suggesting they have a disdain for Christians, a disdain for notions of morality, a mentality of superiority whereby it is their duty to enlighten the masses to humanistic political correctness.

They judge today's Christians by constantly comparing them with so called Christians of the past committing atrocities in the name of Christ. God says in the Bible that you will know a Christian by their love.

I believe that in the past, evil power hungry men used Christianity as their tool to control the people.

Today I see evil power hungry Liberal Politicians using Political correctness as their tool to control the people.

I simply do not believe that a Liberal can be that blind to what he is supporting, all under the guise of so called compassion and tolerance. When it comes to supporting the right to kill viable babies, for any reason, weeks from birth, I do not think this is a position of foolishness. I call it an issue of inhumanity that flies in the face with their claims of compassion ad tolerance for the least of us.

I seldom hear Liberals speaking out against the radical extreme side of their Party. The silence says it all.

Side: Liberalism at its best
1 point

Liberals take us back to medievial, religious, blasphemy laws

Hello Ex:

Us??? US??? DUDE! Us AIN'T Austria!!

DUDE again..

excon

Side: Liberalism is mental illness
ViceMaga(38) Disputed
1 point

Us??? US??? DUDE! Us AIN'T Austria!!

Us would be the West.

Us would be Liberals.

Us will be the United States next.

Don't you every look out into reality and just get sick and tired of the left being as illiberal and tyranical as is possible, acting as the word police, and taking us straight for Orwell's "1984"?

Side: Liberalism at its best