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So long as they are reasonable enough to have legitimate conversations about it with me, not ignore it or not even consider other options. That's not to say I'd want to convert them or anything, but I like discussion too much xD
But there are so many other factors. If I were to find someone who I truly liked who was willing to date me, there is no inherent reason why it wouldn't work out, as far as I can see.
Insofar that I believe in meaningful one night stands, yes I would. Indeed I would probably see them more than once if they were looking for ''some fun''. It's after the first month or so when they become inquisitive and start asking questions like, what's your name, where do you live that I clear off pretty god damned quickly. Actually, I'm living proof that mixed marriages definitely work, I'm a human being and my wife is a Klingon.
I would easily and that there is nothing wrong with having a different religion than your partner. Sure there may be some problems in the relationship and that could easily be worked out. Religion is not the only thing to look at a person there is many other things that will make you forget about the person's religion and look at the things that you guys have in common.
I tried and it always failed, our way of thinking is to different our ideology just don't mesh and in the end it just never works, at least that's how it is for me.
As a human would you date a monkey? A monkey is less evolved intellectually, other then throwing shit at each other on a drunken night what would you have in common with a religious person as an atheist?
As for different beliefs but both delusional theist ....well tomato, tomatoes both smelling like shit just different Oder's.
The overwhelming majority of relationships don't work out. We each only get a maximum of one relationship that works out for us, and that only because we die before the relationship ends.
If you aren't now in a permanent relationship, you're looking at a correlation in some cases, but not necessarily a causal factor. These are obstacles that can and are overcome- I know of two elderly married Catholic ladies that work at the daycare my son is in. One of them is married to an atheist, the other to a Jew. Doesn't seem to hold any of them back.
I imagine the issues with these relationships of yours had more subtle problems that you are attributing to religion.
I would also throw out there that it is highly unlikely that you've dated a statistically significant sample of individuals with differing religious beliefs.
Well would you,yeah there are some open-minds who prefer to cast aside all social,regional barriers and go on a date but certainly that won't be anything of a date for the two would never come to anything mutual
I could never date a gay guy who belonged to any of the mainstream religions. I have no tolerance towards others gays who adhere to belief systems that so clearly against us. Any gay that is a believes in that crap is no true prideful gay. I hate knit-your-own birkenstock cherry pickers who ignore all of the crap in these awful texts that is against them.
There are people out there who are Christian, in that they believe in the divinity of Christ, but at the same time do not believe in the legitimacy of much what was written by the disciples. Since Jesus did not speak out against homosexuality, what would be wrong with someone holding that belief system, since there wouldn't be anything they are particularly "ignoring"?
Jesus spoke about the validity of the teachings that came before him, which includes what it says in the Old Testament about killing gays. Also the fact is most mainstream Christian organizations are the ones rallying against gay rights so it upsets me to see my kindred spirits joining their side.
The only good thing about being in a relationship with a Christian is the fact that dumb guys can be pretty cute.
What is wrong with agreeing with the positive values of a religious belief if you do not adhere to the abhorrent parts of that religion? Shouldn't that be admired, not shamed?
Because it's dumb to just pick and choose between the bits that are against the way you live your life. It's dumb to associate yourself with the enemy. It is dumb to look for advice in a religious teacher who doesn't agree with what you are.
So everything has to be an absolute? Do you mean to say that you disagree with everything in the Bible? Every single value?
Just because you don't agree with the idea of God or if a teacher has taught some things that are negative, that doesn't invalidate everything they've ever done.
No, I do not disagree with everything in the bible. But the only good things in the bible are the generic simple values found in every religion, so are worthy of no credit. It doesn't take much moral wisdom to figure out killing and stealing is wrong.
You are correct, from an objective point of view, if a religious teacher says something that is wrong about gays it doesn't invalidate everything they've ever done. But from the point of view of gays it does mean that they are worthy of none of our respect. All gays must disagree with the idea of the Abrahamic God as he condemns us. Otherwise they are letting our community down.
All gays must disagree with the idea of the Abrahamic God as he condemns us. Otherwise they are letting our community down.
Of all the things that factor into one's religious beliefs, I don't believe that disagreeing with the doctrine or dogma on a specific condemnable issue is the highest. I mean, members of the Catholic priesthood have been known to engage in homosexual pedophilia. Christians have been known to have premarital sex, children out of wedlock, to have abortions and get divorced. Such individuals are already overly and unnecessarily burdened by guilt stemming from incorrect but deeply held beliefs. I think it's rather callous to dump that on them as well. Besides, some of those gay christians are helping some branches reduce or eliminate their anti-gay stance, surely you can see how having men on the inside helps?
Even if having men on the inside does help I don't want my future hubby to be one of them. I do not want to be associating myself with such evil.
Anyway my attitude is to fight the evil of Christianity, not to try and befriend it. I have no interest in enlightening these morons only showing their evil and stupidity.
Even if having men on the inside does help I don't want my future hubby to be one of them. I do not want to be associating myself with such evil.
I didn't go so far as to say marry a christian guy- simply that many gay Christians are already unduly burdened, and really don't need to be ostracized by the gay community in addition to all that. They can't help the fact that they were indoctrinated into christianity at a young age any more than they can 'help' the fact that they are gay. Some can get past the indoctrination, some can't, and some try to work to improve things from within.
Anyway my attitude is to fight the evil of Christianity, not to try and befriend it. I have no interest in enlightening these morons only showing their evil and stupidity.
This remark strikes me as being simultaneously overly optimistic and pessimistic. But again- I wasn't suggesting that you support, befriend, or enlighten christianity. Just that maybe that you not be so hard on gay christians- they have enough on their plate. By all means, be hard on christians all you want, but it seems like you're harder on gay christians than otherwise. Essentially, you're simultaneously discriminating against both their religious beliefs and sexual orientation, despite sharing the latter (sort of; I gather that you're bisexual favoring men, 4-5 or so on the Kinsey scale? I've been a 1 or 2 at various stages of my own life, never a 3 or higher, and currently a 0 in practice only due to marriage). You're basically taking the worst of both the anti-gay and anti-religion attitudes and dumping them on someone who already has a massive burden to carry.
Well even if they do have enough on their plate already it's not as if I'm harassing any of them for it or giving them a harder time. I simply cannot understand them and find their behaviour to be disloyal to the rest of the LGBT community. They are wasting their time trying to reform Christian view on us because Christians will always be biggots.
I'm not discriminating on them for their sexuality I am discriminating against them for being disloyal to our cause. I could never discriminate against someone for their sexuality as I know how it hurts. Also I am not at all bisexual, I am completely gay and would be a solid 6 on that scale.
Well even if they do have enough on their plate already it's not as if I'm harassing any of them for it or giving them a harder time.
Your posting here seems to be rather loaded otherwise- though I'll concede you aren't likely to be (indirectly) harassing a very large number of gay christians given the membership of this site. So why should they prioritize the LGBT community above all else? Why do they 'owe' loyalty to said community. A gay dude isn't just a gay dude- he might also be a liberal or conservative, a theist or atheist, etc etc. I object to it for the same reason that I object to the term 'alternative lifestyle' used to describe gay individuals. Sexual orientation does not define a persons lifestyle- it is simply an aspect of it. Simply because an individual is gay, does not necessarily mean gay rights should be their number one priority. A feminist lesbian, for example, may well put women's issues ahead of gay issue's. She isn't betraying anyone by doing so.
They are wasting their time trying to reform Christian view on us because Christians will always be biggots.
Really? Here's a [list of gay-friendly christian churches in England]. Doesn't seem like a waste of time giving the impact it's having, in practice.
I'll agree that Christians will always be bigots- but only as an extension of the fact that everybody is bigoted in some way.
I'm not discriminating on them for their sexuality I am discriminating against them for being disloyal to our cause. I could never discriminate against someone for their sexuality as I know how it hurts.
The reasoning behind it is immaterial. You are judging these gays differently than other gays due to their religion. Reasoning aside, that is religious discrimination. You are judging these christians differently than other christians due to their sexual orientation. Reasoning aside, that is discrimination based on sexual orientation. It's no more valid than discriminating against black people, not because they are black, but because they are statistically convicted of more crimes. The effect is the same.
Also I am not at all bisexual, I am completely gay and would be a solid 6 on that scale.
I could have sworn you said at one point that you were bisexual- my apologies there, I may have been thinking of someone else.
Fair point but if this "gay dude" believes in something (religion) that is responsible for the majority of persecution of "gay dudes" and is fundamentally against "gay dudes" then this "gay dude" is a bit of a twat. As a gay person, to me religion means oppression.
Simply because an individual is gay, does not necessarily mean gay rights should be their number one priority.
No but it still should be very important to them. If you don't care about avoiding persecution and having your rights then you are a moron. A black person would not support something that is prejudice against them, even if racial equality wasn't their number one priority.
A feminist lesbian, for example, may well put women's issues ahead of gay issue's. She isn't betraying anyone by doing so.
That's totally different. Feminism and being a lesbian do not conflict at all. If anything they complement each other. Gay and Christian doesn't go well together at all. A gay Christian is like a Jew being a Nazi.
[list of gay-friendly christian churches in England].
Just because they are supposedly gay friendly doesn't mean they actually believe in equal rights for gays, for example gay marriage. It simply means they accept and tolerate gays. There's a bit of a difference.
I'll agree that Christians will always be bigots- but only as an extension of the fact that everybody is bigoted in some way.
The religious are especially though.
You are judging these christians differently than other christians due to their sexual orientation. Reasoning aside, that is discrimination based on sexual orientation.
I am judging them differently but in a positive way. As they are gay I consider them to be above religion and I expect more from them than I do from your average Christian ratbag.
I could have sworn you said at one point that you were bisexual
So? That was then and now is now. It's hardly uncommon for people at this age to feel like they are one thing and then realize they are actually something else.
Fair point but if this "gay dude" believes in something (religion) that is responsible for the majority of persecution of "gay dudes" and is fundamentally against "gay dudes" then this "gay dude" is a bit of a twat. As a gay person, to me religion means oppression.
But is the religion really responsible? You don't believe the abrahamic god exists, so you acknowledge these are creations of man; the anti-gay aspects in a religion are used as a tool to justify and perpetuate an evil form of bigotry that existed long before religions were concocted to push them. A tool that's been frighteningly effective at it's job- but a created tool nonetheless.
I understand your stance on the matter more than I think you appreciate, but I really don't think you have the perspective to look down on them en masse this way. Remember that gay christians are far from the only christians. Something about that mythos is extremely compelling to a certain mindset in a way that you and I can't really grasp, but can only come to know in a diluted vicarious way through extended time spent in the company of "good examples" of the religion in question. It's historically been compelling enough for people to do all manner of things for, which is one of the very reasons it can be called evil and even frightening.
No but it still should be very important to them. If you don't care about avoiding persecution and having your rights then you are a moron.
I don't entirely disagree with you there, but 1) don't you already consider those who believe in Christianity to be morons anyway? And, 2) Isn't it possible to have a personal system of priorities that does not place 'avoiding persecution' at the number 1 spot?
A black person would not support something that is prejudice against them, even if racial equality wasn't their number one priority.
Many black police officers would disagree with you, amongst numerous other professional examples alone. There are even a small minority of black people who genuinely believe themselves to be of an inferior race, who strive to be more "white." I could go on.
That's totally different. Feminism and being a lesbian do not conflict at all. If anything they complement each other. Gay and Christian doesn't go well together at all. A gay Christian is like a Jew being a Nazi.
Just because they are supposedly gay friendly doesn't mean they actually believe in equal rights for gays, for example gay marriage. It simply means they accept and tolerate gays. There's a bit of a difference.
Oh, not all of them, but some of them do. In many cases decisions like these aren't really in the hands of the local church itself, but are controlled by an organized denomination. Making these changes in many cases would require splitting from the denomination, which often means a loss of an important source of funding, as well as a loss of membership such that many churches could not sustain themselves.
That said, it has happened. The same site also has a section for christian gay-affirming denominations; some are new, having split off from an older denomination with sufficient members and capital to survive, some are older ones that have officially adopted the stance. Gay marriages are conducted by most of these (where legal, anyway), and membership in the clergy (professional in those where such exists) is available to gay members, etc etc.
The religious are especially though.
No arguments there.
I am judging them differently but in a positive way. As they are gay I consider them to be above religion and I expect more from them than I do from your average Christian ratbag.
Therein lies the problem; you're labeling them as unacceptable because of your stereotypical assumptions regarding your own sexual orientation. This statement means that you have a positive bias towards gays, considering them better in some ways than those with differing sexual orientations. Further, you have a negative bias towards these gays because they fail to meet your standards. It's wrong for exactly the same reason that guys using degrading female slurs to denigrate another guy that is perceived as feminine or insufficiently masculine is wrong.
So? That was then and now is now. It's hardly uncommon for people at this age to feel like they are one thing and then realize they are actually something else.
I'm not saying there is anything wrong with that, I was just confused. If you had mentioned that you used to feel that way but no longer do I would understand. I wasn't objecting to the concept, I simply thought that I was mistaken, that's all.
Actually that is wrong. It is okay to date someone of a different religion than you, what you are saying is that its wrong to talk to someone who isn't the same belief as you. But if that's so, how does a non-Christian become a Christian if a Christian won't talk to them? You are supposed to treat a non Christian the same as you would any other person.
Different religious views is what for society and making perspectives diverse, but if I end up living with this person, no way I will be able to tolerate the differences. I prefer women with little to no religious beliefs.