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Debate Info

3
2
Yea Nay
Debate Score:5
Arguments:4
Total Votes:5
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Argument Ratio

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 Yea (2)
 
 Nay (1)

Debate Creator

JustIgnoreMe(4290) pic



You make the call.

Pretend you are a state legislator.

A bill comes up that proposes an after school program.

Evidence is presented to your satisfaction which shows that the program keeps one kid per year from going to juvenille detention.

The amount the government would spend on the program is the same as the cost of keeping one kid in juvenille detention.

How do you vote on the bill?

Bonus question: if you would vote yea, how much more would the program have to cost for you to vote nay; if you would vote nay, how much less?

Yea

Side Score: 3
VS.

Nay

Side Score: 2
2 points

If the cost either way is neutral then it would be irrational to vote against it.

In any trial project lessons are learnt and if the project is successful and can be replicated it may prove to become less costly per person once the infrastructure is in place. The end result being more are kept out of detention for less cost than detention. Win Win

Side: Yea
JustIgnoreMe(4290) Clarified
1 point

So, would you consider a libertarian who votes against the program to be irrational?

Also, any thoughts on the bonus question?

Side: Yea
nobodyknows(745) Disputed
2 points

Most libertarians are opposed to such programs for many possible reasons or combinations of reasons:

1) they believe the benefits are exaggerated

2) they believe the estimated costs are too optimistic

3) governments are slower to respond to new information than individuals, they have little incentive to do so. If a new program comes along that is twice as effective for half the cost, the community would have to fight a long political battle against all the special interests who have benefited from the old system to make the change. In a world where the after school program was run and funded by private individuals, they could adopt the new program immediately and would have a strong incentive to do so.

4) they believe that over time politically-connected cronies will take advantage of the government money being poured into the program. Ten years into the program we wouldn't be surprised if they were spending $5 million dollars for 500 pencils.

5) Bureaucrats lack accountability and incentives to achieve results. If the program started to fail and students started to end up in juvenile detention, what real consequences would a bureaucrat or politician face? Right now our schools are failing, is anyone facing any consequences? All the while taxpayers are still paying for these ineffective programs.

6) Unintended consequences. Most of the time, policies have unintended consequences. These consequences can often be much more expensive than just the dollar cost of the program. The after school program could cause more kids to fail high school, as the problem kids are not in juvenile detention and instead distract other students from learning.

Side: Nay
1 point

I consider it would be irrational not to vote for it.

I do not speak for anyone else, they will have their reasons as to how they vote and why.

As far as the bonus Q is concerned

If freedom was cheaper than detention I would go for freedom

If detention was cheaper than freedom I would look for reasons not already taken into account to justify to still go for freedom

Side: Yea
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