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Islam, Judiasm, Hinduism, corrupt churches etc are all unnecessary and I agree with this. But is God unnecessary? God is very different from religion and I do believe that God is the debate in question here, not religion therefore state whether you believe one to be unnecessary or both.
I never asked whether my belief in Him is relevant or not, as this is not the debate in question. If you believe God to be unnecessary, why are you participating in debates that are very much related to Him?
absolutely correct. religion is the best way to have reasons for madness. as someone else so eloquently put it: where will god go to hide from the fatal harbinger that is logic, rationality, and scientific understanding?
I would rather not say that God is not real, because not real is a positive assertion of fact and has a burden of proof. Rather I would say God is an unfalsifiable hypothesis and cannot be proven not to exist. Much like if I say I can fly when no one is looking or that I own an invisible hamster that can't be measured or sensed in any way, you can't disprove any of it. But just like God, there is insufficient evidence to claim the existence of God. I cannot conclude God is not real because you cannot disprove (or prove) something that cannot be falsified. I can however lack a belief in God because I see no more evidence for God than I do for Zeus, Allah or my invisible hamster.
tell me,do you support jesus and the bible? if you do, then you are also a supporter of mass genocide on a global scale, as well as slavery, and killing of homosexuals.read the bible, and youll see its shocking brutality and its fallacies.
tell me,do you support jesus and the bible? if you do, then you are also a supporter of mass genocide on a global scale, as well as slavery, and killing of homosexuals.read the bible, and youll see its shocking brutality and its fallacies.
I would rather not say that God is not real, because not real is a positive assertion of fact and has a burden of proof. Rather I would say God is an unfalsifiable hypothesis and cannot be proven not to exist. Much like if I say I can fly when no one is looking or that I own an invisible hamster that can't be measured or sensed in any way, you can't disprove any of it. But just like God, there is insufficient evidence to claim the existence of God. I cannot conclude God is not real because you cannot disprove (or prove) something that cannot be falsified. I can however lack a belief in God because I see no more evidence for God than I do for Zeus, Allah or my invisible hamster.
What do you want then, for Him to appear before you and ask you to believe in Him? What is it that would make you believe He is true?
Yes, I require irrefutable evidence to believe in something. If I told you that leprechauns existed, you would call me a liar and I would absolutely deserve it, and your lack of belief in leprechauns would be completely rational. The same is true for the claim of God's existence. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Extraordinary claims do not become ordinary simply by their repetition by the religious. If I am to believe in anything extraordinary, I will require extraordinary evidence. Faith is not noble or something to be prized. Believing in something for which no evidence exists is a dangerous condition. Like if I were to believe that I was impervious to fire, I would then light myself on fire and die. Why then would I die if I believed I was fire-resistant? Because my beliefs did not have accurate foundations in reality. Belief alone has absolutely nothing to do with reality.
If I am to believe in anything extraordinary, I will require extraordinary evidence
The idea of men evolving from hairy apes is extraordinary, therefore you require extraordinary evidence yet this is not presented to you. Yet you believe it? Your claim is flawed I do believe.
Faith is not noble or something to be prized.
Quite the contrary, faith is one of three most important things; faith, hope and love. Faith holds relationships between men firm, faith saves lives, faith allows prayers to be answered, faith inspires good behaviour and moral living, faith enriches persistance and whilst it is one of the most powerful things, it cannot be seen. Faith is many things and it certainly is something to be "prized".
Believing in something for which no evidence exists is a dangerous condition.
I whole-heartedly agree therefore you should quit believing in the invention of fools and look toward the Truth which will embrace you with open arms. :)
The idea of men evolving from hairy apes is extraordinary, therefore you require extraordinary evidence yet this is not presented to you. Yet you believe it? Your claim is flawed I do believe.
Evolution has been proven and is accepted by the vast majority of scientists around the world and by the most legitimate scientific organizations around the world including the national academy of sciences. It's not that it hasn't been proven but that you won't accept the proof because it contradicts your beliefs. Why is it that there is no debate going on in the LEGITIMATE scientific community about creationism vs. evolution? That is because it was settled a long time ago by biologists, paleontologists, etc from universities and organizations around the world and is known to be true. This debate only goes on from those who are uneducated in the subject, and no, readings blogs and websites does not make you educated, I mean reputable university education and field research. Evolution has been proven and accepted by anyone who is willing to put logic, evidence and the findings and discoveries of modern science above belief. Evolution has been accepted and proven with irrefutable fossil evidence and whether or not you accept that has no bearing on reality. And I am not here to debate you on evolution because the scientific community has already settled that, this debate is about whether God is real, not evolution, in fact every christian I know accepts evolution because they would have to be completely ignorant to deny it.
Quite the contrary, faith is one of three most important things; faith, hope and love. Faith holds relationships between men firm,
faith does not hold relationships firm, trust based on experience holds relationships firm. You don't have faith in people, you trust them because you have experience telling you they are trustworthy. That is why people give their babies to baby sitters or close friends or families and not random people on the street. It is not because people have faith in each other, it is because they have trust founded in reality and experience.
faith saves lives, faith allows prayers to be answered
How? Did faith develop vaccines? Is faith the foundation for medical science? If faith saves lives why don't we close down the hospitals and turn them into churches, because clearly that would be more effective if we had faith. Science has a much better track record on reliability than prayer or faith does because it can be tested and proven. In fact faith is one of the leading causes of death. People killing each other left and right because God told them it was a good idea. More people have been killed over their faith than any other man made cause in history.
faith inspires good behaviour and moral living, faith enriches persistance and whilst it is one of the most powerful things
sure faith can be good. There are plenty of good morals in the bible, but there are also bad ones, like condoning slavery, rape, sexism, killing witches and gays or killing your neighbor for picking up sticks on Sunday. Hitler had faith that he was doing the will of God, but that didn't make what he was doing right or moral, faith is irrelevant when it comes to reality.
faith is many things and it certainly is something to be "prized".
Not really, faith means you are willing to believe something without evidence for it. Another word for that description is gullibility or stupidity. I could have faith that I was meant to blow up an orphanage, or I could have faith that Oreo's are healthy, the thing is that my faith would not change the fact that I would be delusional and an idiot. Contrary to popular belief, faith cannot alter reality. And if you believe faith can break the laws of physics than I'm sorry but that character trait is not faith but stupidity, or at least ignorance of the laws of physics.
I whole-heartedly agree therefore you should quit believing in the invention of fools and look toward the Truth which will embrace you with open arms. :)
The inventions of fools: such as vaccines, penicillin, the computer, the telephone, or the light bulb to name a few. I find it quite ironic that you will call the advances of modern science the inventions of fools yet you cannot get through a single day (unless you are Amish, in which case you wouldn't be using this computer) without relying on the secular inventions which have no components involving faith. You take the advances of science for granted, there is a reason life expectancy skyrocketed after we escaped the dark ages and it wasn't because we started praying more and having more faith. The reality is you would most likely die by the age of 40 if it weren't for science and medicine, yet you mock them and deny their foundations. You reap the benefits of modern science yet deny it's findings when they contradict your beliefs. I don't understand how you can be so hypocritical.
Nautilus, here is my response to your first paragraph: take your fingers out your ears and listen to the truth as it may be too late tomorrow.
It's not that it hasn't been proven but that you won't accept the proof because it contradicts your beliefs
Evolution hasn't been proven, no one has given me factual evidence that backs up the claims that are made. Of course it contradicts my beliefs; lies (evolution) and truth (Christianity) don't sit together.
every christian I know accepts evolution because they would have to be completely ignorant to deny it
Its funny you say that because all the Christians I know (and that is thousands) think evolution is absolutely ridiculous - and some are far more intelligent and wise than yourself and I.
faith does not hold relationships firm, trust based on experience holds relationships firm
If you were my best friend and you were about to run a race that would save your life, I would not have trust in you, I would have faith in you. Trust plays a major part in relationships, but faith plays a major part also. If my parents had no faith in me I would not be where I am today, and I certainly would not love them so much. If my husband had no faith in me I would not be where I am right now and our relationship would never have worked out. Faith holds relationships firm.
How?
How does faith save lives? Well, all you have to do is think and answers will come to you. If someone feels they cannot beat a disease/cancer or something and this causes their inner fighting to lack, a loved one who has faith in them will tell them "you can do this, I have faith in you, you can beat this" and this may save their life; I have seen it on more than four occasions. My second point was that faith allows prayers to be answered. We are told that a man in prayer who is doubting will not have his prayer answered, but a man who places His faith and trust in God will have His prayer answered if it be His will.
People killing each other left and right because God told them it was a good idea
Ahh, another main shelter that atheists hide under - the terrorist argument. Men have used God as an excuse for their actions for thousands of years. What is the point in repeating it over and over?
More people have been killed over their faith than any other man made cause in history.
Men who are willing to die for their faith are similar to men who are willing to die for their country in many ways. Yet you view the first as a negative? Just because it relates to God does not suddenly make it evil. I view them as heroes just as I view soldiers in war. (For the record, I don't believe in men ending their own lives for God by crashing planes into towers, I am speaking on a level of men that are murdered for their faith).
Not really
No offence intended here but you are not in the position to make such a claim as God does indeed "prize" faith, we humans do not have the ability to "prize" faith like God will.
faith means you are willing to believe something without evidence for it. Another word for that description is gullibility or stupidity
Explaining faith to an atheist is truly like explaining the process of digestion to a dog.
You take the advances of science for granted
You are out of your depth here as you know nothing of what I "take for granted". I adore science and like I said many scientists over the centuries are a great inspiration to me. There is a difference between the advances of science and the inventions/lies that some scientists claim. I don't believe lies like yourself and this is definitely not a bad thing nor does it result in me "taking science for granted".
Hitler had faith that he was doing the will of God, but that didn't make what he was doing right or moral, faith is irrelevant when it comes to reality
Again, your views are twisted. Hitler was not the ordinary man and although in his famous book he speaks about doing the will of God etc he is doing what thousands of other men have done; using God as an excuse for their actions. The devil works in evil ways, and nothing pleases him more than to see men pointing the finger at God for this, that and the next thing. You are a victim of his crimes.
The inventions of fools: such as vaccines, penicillin, the computer, the telephone, or the light bulb to name a few
You need to stop deliberately misunderstanding me it gets rather boring after a while. The fools I was referring to are the men who have lied to the nation advertising their inventions and making claims that they cannot provide evidence for so resort to big words and pretty pictures. Fools are men who lie in order to take the eye off God. If you twist these words again I can predict I won't bother responding and if I do I will be grouchy thus will probably use foul language.
Evolution hasn't been proven, no one has given me factual evidence that backs up the claims that are made. Of course it contradicts my beliefs; lies (evolution) and truth (Christianity) don't sit together.
Evolution has been proven, it is accepted by the scientific community where these debates are, and have been, settled by professional academics, not online debtors, you just won't accept the proof.
its funny you say that because all the Christians I know (and that is thousands) think evolution is absolutely ridiculous - and some are far more intelligent and wise than yourself and I.
Sure, bu can you explain why the vast majority of the greatest minds on earth right now are atheist, and almost all believe in evolution, big bang, etc. Can you explain why 99% of The American Academy of sciences, containing many noble prize winners, infinitely smarter than you, me and your friends combined, are atheist. These are literally the smartest people on the planet, committed to research and expanding the knowledge of mankind, and they don't believe in God, what a coincidence.
Faith holds relationships firm.
not always, I have known people who have been drawn into the world of drug abuse and died as a result. I could have faith that they would get better, but just because you have faith in something does not mean it will happen.
If someone feels they cannot beat a disease/cancer or something and this causes their inner fighting to lack, a loved one who has faith in them will tell them "you can do this, I have faith in you, you can beat this" and this may save their life; I have seen it on more than four occasions.
4 occasions that faith "worked" (yeah no other factors could have influenced that, good controlled experiment) as opposed to how many times it didn't work. There are hundreds of cases of parents withholding medical treatment for their child and praying for them and that child died, you know why? because prayer doesn't work. That is demonstrated by the thousands of dead children left in the hands of faith. You know what works better? Medical technology. I have a feeling you have had your fair share of vaccines in your life and seen a doctor a few times. If you have an infection they will prescribe antibiotics that will fight that strain of bacteria, they won't tell you to pray because there is no evidence to suggest prayer works. Since the invention of modern medicine life expectancies have largely doubled, now I would say the people in the dark ages were quite pious, prayer does not save lives, vaccines, medicine and scientific advances save lives.
We are told that a man in prayer who is doubting will not have his prayer answered, but a man who places His faith and trust in God will have His prayer answered if it be His will.
Wow what a convenient way to excuse prayer from scrutiny. If you pray for something and it didn't work it's because you didn't have faith or you didn't trust God. Medicine is not the bible's area of expertise, and prayer has no place in it. Medical treatment is infinitely more likely to work than prayer because medicine has research and testing to back it up and prove why and how it works. We understand the human body, we understand chemistry and biology. If you are infected with a bacteria causing a disease medicine can diminish the effects of the bacteria and kill it using the knowledge we amassed through research. Prayer will not do that, there is a reason you can be charged in court if you let your child die and opt to pray for him.
the terrorist argument
what the hell are you talking about? People don't use God as an excuse for their own agenda, these are religious extremists who follow the direct word of god in their holy book and it happens from all religions. Now you say people use God as an excuse for murder, well here is a quote from Numbers 31: 17-18 attesting to quite the opposite "Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves." You are wrong, this is God commanding Moses to murder all the civilian boys and rape the virgin daughters of their slain enemies.... yeah God endorses war, rape, murder, and lots of terrible things you don't seem to attribute to him.
Men who are willing to die for their faith are similar to men who are willing to die for their country in many ways
These are not the same because #1, I do not support wars such as those in Afghanistan or Iraq. #2 These are not the same because extremists follow the commands of their God to kill others in the name of that God while fighting for your country is a choice (except inscription which I don't agree with if I don't support the war).
I am speaking on a level of men that are murdered for their faith)
I agree that that is a terrible thing but it happens from all sides. Muslims killing Christians, Hindu's killing Sihks, Christians killing Jews, and switch those orders around if you like but the thing is that people have killed those who don't aggree with them in the name of their God, and their sacrifice does not somehow legitimize and validate their
beliefs.
No offence intended here but you are not in the position to make such a claim as God does indeed "prize" faith, we humans do not have the ability to "prize" faith like God will.
Okay I see your point that I am not in a position to judge but I can still voice my argument. Okay well faith in God has nothing to do with the rest of your characteristics, things Jesus would have wanted people to follow like love your neighbor and be compassionate. I know many people who have faith in God but are complete assholes. Meanwhile I, if you knew me, am a very nice person, I volunteer, I help others all the time as much as I can and I do much more for the poor and downtrodden than most Christians I know. Now why would a God send some crotchety asshole who never helped someone in their life to heaven for having faith, while sending me to hell for living my life as a compassionate human being who happens to require evidence as a prerequisite for belief. What kind of a loving God would do that? Belief seems like an odd trait to prize to me.
Explaining faith to an atheist is truly like explaining the process of digestion to a dog.
Okay well if you think I do not understand the concept of faith then please explain it to me and correct me as opposed to disputing me on things for which I have no understanding according to you.
I don't believe lies like yourself and this is definitely not a bad thing nor does it result in me "taking science for granted".
Okay well things like antibiotics have to be re-made to bacteria that have evolved to become resistant to the drugs that were used to treat them. Now you don't happen to believe in evolution so if you get a Staphylococcus infection from a strain which has evolved through natural selection to become resistant to methicillin then you can just refuse the new treatment because you don't believe the "lies" behind the science to treat it.
The devil works in evil ways, and nothing pleases him more than to see men pointing the finger at God for this, that and the next thing. You are a victim of his crimes. Back to the devil, what a convenient scapegoat which you do not have to justify in any way
Then show me the proof and raw data that prove it.
you just won't accept the proof
I don't accept lies. I have seen no proof.
Sure, bu can you explain why the vast majority of the greatest minds on earth right now are atheist, and almost all believe in evolution, big bang, etc
Greatest minds? Very debateable. Furthermore, yes I can explain why many are atheist; they fall into the trap. Simple as that.
These are literally the smartest people on the planet
Where do you get this from? Of course they are not the smartest people on the planet, have you been round every person individually on this planet and tested their IQ? Of course you haven't. Where I work there is an elderly man that often visits early in the morning and he is the most intelligent man I know; his ideas, language, general knowledge of basically everthing is astounding. Just because he is not in a famous work place and down on some records with famous achievments does not make him suddenly less smart than some scholars.
not always, I have known people who have been drawn into the world of drug abuse and died as a result. I could have faith that they would get better, but just because you have faith in something does not mean it will happen.
You clearly didn't read my post. I stated that it had a fair chance of making a difference, as i have seen a few times. Furthermore, you stated that "faith does not hold relationships firm" and now you have changed to "not always". I think we can agree that faith does often make a huge difference to an individual in distress.
(yeah no other factors could have influenced that, good controlled experiment)
This is correct; they had refused to undergo treatment and had given up hope. Only when faith came into the picture did they fight and live.
there is no evidence to suggest prayer works
This claim is an ignorant one; thousands, billions of Christians have had their prayers answered. I have had mine answered on numorous occasions so that disproves your claim right here and now.
People don't use God as an excuse for their own agenda, these are religious extremists who follow the direct word of god in their holy book and it happens from all religions
Its amusing to see how you have fallen for the words of such evil men. Both amusing but also dangerous. Of course they use God as an excuse, they have for centuries! Look at the time when 'Christians' burned witches alive; they used God as an excuse for that didn't they? Thats just one example. Of course men use God as an excuse; Hitler wrote all about God in his famous book and how He was doing the will of God; of course He wasn't doing the will of God though, God would never wish for such an event to take place. Your claim is completely false and you have fallen for the words of fools. Again.
Now you say people use God as an excuse for murder, well here is a quote from Numbers 31: 17-18 attesting to quite the opposite
This is the OT, my friend, when killing was viewed very differently. Furthermore, the verse in no way relates to the examples I am giving due to the fact that Moses was actually spoken to by God whereas the men that commit evil acts lie and pretend God has spoken them when He has not.
extremists follow the commands of their God to kill others in the name of that God
Wake up. Wake up. Wake up. They claim He has spoken to them as an excuse, why can you not see this?
These are not the same because #1, I do not support wars such as those in Afghanistan or Iraq.
All that does is show that it is not the same to you due to your opinion. Anyhow, I was just speaking on the spur of the moment hence the end part "in many ways" which implies they are also different from each other "in many ways".
Muslims killing Christians, Hindu's killing Sihks, Christians killing Jews, and switch those orders around if you like but the thing is that people have killed those who don't aggree with them in the name of their God, and their sacrifice does not somehow legitimize and validate their beliefs.
What men have done in history and continue to do in the present day was and is evil. This does not make the religion evil, it makes them evil. For example, in school I was taught Biology by a really awful teacher and she was completely useless, mean and picked on most of the pupils. This does not make me dislike Biology though, it makes me dislike her and dislike the fact that she portrayes it wrong to 30/40 pupils each year. Its the same for Christianity, the man who abuses the faith and uses God as an excuse for evil things he does is the one to be blamed, not God or the faith.
I know many people who have faith in God but are complete assholes.
I could not agree more.
Now why would a God send some crotchety asshole who never helped someone in their life to heaven for having faith, while sending me to hell for living my life as a compassionate human being who happens to require evidence as a prerequisite for belief. What kind of a loving God would do that?
God asks us to believe in Him, worship Him, love Him for what He has done for us and to repent. Whoever does this goes to heaven. Whoever rejects Him will not go to heaven. There will be those in heaven who have done evil things. Look at Paul in the bible for example; before he became an incredible man and one of the best preachers to ever live, he murdered believers. There will be men and women in heaven who have not been good people, and God will deal with that. If you reject Him, your Creator, your God, why should He let you be with Him for eternity?
Belief seems like an odd trait to prize to me.
I believe we were discussing faith being prized?
Okay well if you think I do not understand the concept of faith then please explain it to me and correct me as opposed to disputing me on things for which I have no understanding according to you
No, that is not what I said. I said " Explaining faith to an atheist is truly like explaining the process of digestion to a dog." So why would I explain faith to you when it would be as though explaining the process of digestion to a dog?
Okay well things like antibiotics have to be re-made to bacteria that have evolved to become resistant to the drugs that were used to treat them
And because bacteria changes this suddenly means that we must have been big hairy apes at one time? Talk about extremists!
Back to the devil, what a convenient scapegoat which you do not have to justify in any way
He is most certainly not a convenient scapegoat! If anything he is the opposite.
I'm honestly getting tired of trying to reason with you, you seem to be quite hypocritical in your statements and willfully ignorant. I'll just show you a video what contains the sentiment and reasoning I am trying to convey http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWdvuSUMipM&feature;=relmfu. I have studies and a life which I also have to attend and I don't have the time to begin another tirade of multi page debates.I suggest you watch the entire series of those videos since someone with your intellectual supremacy should surely be able to dispel any arguments and evidence put forth in those videos.
you seem to be quite hypocritical in your statements and willfully ignorant
And you my friend ignore every point I make and continue to believe I dislike science - all because you are a blind willfully ignorant victim of lies.
Forget the video, you say it provides reasoning yet not evidence therefore it would be an entire waste of my time if it contains not one scrap of evidence.
I have studies and a life which I also have to attend and I don't have the time to begin another tirade of multi page debates
I have a family, work and a life to attend and I don't have time for the willfully ignorant who deliberately misinterpret every statement I make just to make their argument appear strong. Pathetic.
I suggest you watch the entire series of those videos
On your bike! I refuse to watch something that has no evidence, complete waste of my royal time thank you very much.
Really, i don't blame you guys for your lack of belief in a true God but think about it, could we simply be time-wasting with our existence? That us as humans are intelligent beings, that us as humans control to a very great extent the affairs of this globe. Is it this pure natural co-incidence? It is indeed uncontestable that we indeed exist for a purpose. that with our knowledge,talents, abilities we are in a position to change the way the world thinks. The embodiment of a human being defeats the consideration that it all happened naturally-it had to have been planned. Think about this.
Really, i don't blame you guys for your lack of belief in a true God but think about it, could we simply be time-wasting with our existence? That us as humans are intelligent beings, that us as humans control to a very great extent the affairs of this globe. Is it this pure natural co-incidence? It is indeed uncontestable that we indeed exist for a purpose. that with our knowledge,talents, abilities we are in a position to change the way the world thinks. The embodiment of a human being defeats the consideration that it all happened naturally-it had to have been planned. Think about this.
Really, i don't blame you guys for your lack of belief in a true God but think about it, could we simply be time-wasting with our existence? That us as humans are intelligent beings, that us as humans control to a very great extent the affairs of this globe. Is it this pure natural co-incidence? It is indeed uncontestable that we indeed exist for a purpose. that with our knowledge,talents, abilities we are in a position to change the way the world thinks. The embodiment of a human being defeats the consideration that it all happened naturally-it had to have been planned. Think about this.
Really, i don't blame you guys for your lack of belief in a true God but think about it, could we simply be time-wasting with our existence? That us as humans are intelligent beings, that us as humans control to a very great extent the affairs of this globe. Is it this pure natural co-incidence? It is indeed uncontestable that we indeed exist for a purpose. that with our knowledge,talents, abilities we are in a position to change the way the world thinks. The embodiment of a human being defeats the consideration that it all happened naturally-it had to have been planned. Think about this.
Really, i don't blame you guys for your lack of belief in a true God but think about it, could we simply be time-wasting with our existence? That us as humans are intelligent beings, that us as humans control to a very great extent the affairs of this globe. Is it this pure natural co-incidence? It is indeed uncontestable that we indeed exist for a purpose. that with our knowledge,talents, abilities we are in a position to change the way the world thinks. The embodiment of a human being defeats the consideration that it all happened naturally-it had to have been planned. Think about this.
What do you want then, for Him to appear before you and ask you to believe in Him?
Why not? It would be more successful than people knocking on my door, telling me he is real, and expecting me to just take their word for it. Who themselves are just taking the word of someone else.
The billions of reasons that can be listed here are too much and would exceed the limit of characters in this post and the numorous others that it would require to list them. One reason and perhaps the most simple of all is that He is our Creator and God therefore does not have to present Himself to us. He desires that we have faith in Him therefore He would not appear before us and change His opinion on us having faith just for a few atheists who commanded He come down here.
It would be more successful than people knocking on my door
It would also defeat the purpose of faith and would also mean He is obeying men who hate and reject Him.
expecting me to just take their word for it
The true ones are not expecting you to, they are desiring that you do for your own safety and happiness.
Who themselves are just taking the word of someone else.
Taking the word of God, yes, which is more than I can say for those who believe in evolution etc who really are just believing the words of someone else.
The billions of reasons that can be listed here are too much and would exceed the limit of characters in this post and the numorous others that it would require to list them.
I think you greatly exaggerate your ability to contrive reasons.
One reason and perhaps the most simple of all is that He is our Creator and God therefore does not have to present Himself to us.
As an omnipotent being doesn't HAVE to do anything, but perhaps he would WANT to make himself known, so that people can believe in him and only him.
He desires that we have faith in Him
More so, than he desires to "save" mankind.
He would not appear before us and change His opinion on us having faith just for a few atheists who commanded He come down here.
Not just atheists, but all non-christians which is the majority of the world.
And no one is commanding him to do anything. I am stating the obvious. If your God wants us to believe in him, and does nothing, either he doesn't want it that bad, or he is unable (via being nonexistent).
It would also defeat the purpose of faith
That is the thing isn't it? Religion is able to thrive through Faith, and only through faith. As soon as we begin to apply reason, it all falls apart. With faith you can convince people to believe in almost anything without evidence, so long as you convince them that they are 'good' for believing it. If we all waited for God to tell us things directly no one would ever believe in God. This is why messages must always come from people claiming to speak on God's behalf.
Give me one good reason why I should care about faith.
The true ones are not expecting you to, they are desiring that you do for your own safety and happiness.
They are not mutually exclusive. They may still expect me to take their word for it --for-- my own good and happiness.
Taking the word of God, yes, which is more than I can say for those who believe in evolution etc who really are just believing the words of someone else.
You're a fool, if you don't think you are taking someone's word for it when you read the bible.
The bible was written by men. Interpreted by men, and selectively edited via a bureaucracy. The councils of Nicaea decided BY A VOTE what books to be included in the bible, and what books to excluded. They decided again BY A VOTE that the Trinitarian doctrine is true, and should be taught exclusively.
I think you greatly exaggerate your ability to contrive reasons.
They are not reasons that I just invent - that is what your religion does.
As an omnipotent being doesn't HAVE to do anything, but perhaps he would WANT to make himself known, so that people can believe in him and only him
No, He wouldn't want to pander to the needs of fools.
More so, than he desires to "save" mankind.
He has already given us a second chance and you are blowing yours right now.
And no one is commanding him to do anything
Wrong, you want Him to come down here and present Himself before you. That is a command - which just by the way He isn't going to do.
either he doesn't want it that bad
He wants us so much He gave His only Son for us, why sould He keep doing great things for men that reject Him every day? He shouldn't.
via being nonexistent
LOL, you believe He is unable because He is non-existant. Well, thanks for the laughs. Just because He doesn't come down here does not mean He is non-existant, seriously where is your intelligence?
Religion is able to thrive through Faith
Christianity has three major incredible things threaded through it; faith, hope and love. Not just faith. Furthermore, the true Christians are spoken to and guided by God Himself - it has so many levels :)
As soon as we begin to apply reason, it all falls apart.
LOL, I'd like to see you try knock Christianity down with "reason". Go on, I dare you - it will be rather a funny thing to watch as you fall flat on your face.
If we all waited for God to tell us things directly no one would ever believe in God.
That is a rather peculiar statement as steadfast faith and patience results in communication with Himself. So, its a funny thing because this is exactly why so many people believe in God. Do you even know anything about what you are talking about?
Give me one good reason why I should care about faith
Why should I, its rather funny seeing you talk about something that you know absolutely nothing about lol.
You're a fool
This made me burst out laughing; the bible interprets a fool in places as a man without God - LOL that totally backfired on you, dumbass. Thanks again for the laughs though.
if you don't think you are taking someone's word for it when you read the bible
God wrote the bible through His servants; I am reading His Word. Seriously, you need to do something about your lack of knowledge on this subject.
The bible was written by men
Men that were under the power of the Spirit and who were spoken to by God - men that He wrote the bible through.
I think you greatly exaggerate your ability to contrive reasons.
They are not reasons that I just invent - that is what your religion does.
As an omnipotent being doesn't HAVE to do anything, but perhaps he would WANT to make himself known, so that people can believe in him and only him
No, He wouldn't want to pander to the needs of fools.
More so, than he desires to "save" mankind.
He has already given us a second chance and you are blowing yours right now.
And no one is commanding him to do anything
Wrong, you want Him to come down here and present Himself before you. That is a command - which just by the way He isn't going to do.
either he doesn't want it that bad
He wants us so much He gave His only Son for us, why sould He keep doing great things for men that reject Him every day? He shouldn't.
via being nonexistent
LOL, you believe He is unable because He is non-existant. Well, thanks for the laughs. Just because He doesn't come down here does not mean He is non-existant, seriously where is your intelligence?
Religion is able to thrive through Faith
Christianity has three major incredible things threaded through it; faith, hope and love. Not just faith. Furthermore, the true Christians are spoken to and guided by God Himself - it has so many levels :)
As soon as we begin to apply reason, it all falls apart.
LOL, I'd like to see you try knock Christianity down with "reason". Go on, I dare you - it will be rather a funny thing to watch as you fall flat on your face.
If we all waited for God to tell us things directly no one would ever believe in God.
That is a rather peculiar statement as steadfast faith and patience results in communication with Himself. So, its a funny thing because this is exactly why so many people believe in God. Do you even know anything about what you are talking about?
Give me one good reason why I should care about faith
Why should I, its rather funny seeing you talk about something that you know absolutely nothing about lol.
You're a fool
This made me burst out laughing; the bible interprets a fool in places as a man without God - LOL that totally backfired on you, dumbass. Thanks again for the laughs though.
if you don't think you are taking someone's word for it when you read the bible
God wrote the bible through His servants; I am reading His Word. Seriously, you need to do something about your lack of knowledge on this subject.
The bible was written by men
Men that were under the power of the Spirit and who were spoken to by God - men that He wrote the bible through.
I think you greatly exaggerate your ability to contrive reasons.
They are not reasons that I just invent - that is what your religion does.
As an omnipotent being doesn't HAVE to do anything, but perhaps he would WANT to make himself known, so that people can believe in him and only him
No, He wouldn't want to pander to the needs of fools.
More so, than he desires to "save" mankind.
He has already given us a second chance and you are blowing yours right now.
And no one is commanding him to do anything
Wrong, you want Him to come down here and present Himself before you. That is a command - which just by the way He isn't going to do.
either he doesn't want it that bad
He wants us so much He gave His only Son for us, why sould He keep doing great things for men that reject Him every day? He shouldn't.
via being nonexistent
LOL, you believe He is unable because He is non-existant. Well, thanks for the laughs. Just because He doesn't come down here does not mean He is non-existant, seriously where is your intelligence?
Religion is able to thrive through Faith
Christianity has three major incredible things threaded through it; faith, hope and love. Not just faith. Furthermore, the true Christians are spoken to and guided by God Himself - it has so many levels :)
As soon as we begin to apply reason, it all falls apart.
LOL, I'd like to see you try knock Christianity down with "reason". Go on, I dare you - it will be rather a funny thing to watch as you fall flat on your face.
If we all waited for God to tell us things directly no one would ever believe in God.
That is a rather peculiar statement as steadfast faith and patience results in communication with Himself. So, its a funny thing because this is exactly why so many people believe in God. Do you even know anything about what you are talking about?
Give me one good reason why I should care about faith
Why should I, its rather funny seeing you talk about something that you know absolutely nothing about lol.
You're a fool
This made me burst out laughing; the bible interprets a fool in places as a man without God - LOL that totally backfired on you, dumbass. Thanks again for the laughs though.
if you don't think you are taking someone's word for it when you read the bible
God wrote the bible through His servants; I am reading His Word. Seriously, you need to do something about your lack of knowledge on this subject.
The bible was written by men
Men that were under the power of the Spirit and who were spoken to by God - men that He wrote the bible through.
Of course they are. Unless there is already a list of a million reasons established somewhere, which I find doubtful.
No, He wouldn't want to pander to the needs of fools.
Have you read the book of Job?
He has already given us a second chance and you are blowing yours right now.
Oh, no!
Wrong, you want Him to come down here and present Himself before you.
Sure why not. It would settle this dispute, wouldn't it?
That is a command
A command implies authority. I have no authority over supernatural beings.
He wants us so much He gave His only Son for us, why sould He keep doing great things for men that reject Him every day?
Why should he allow his "children" to go to hell, when it would be so easy for him to convince us that he exists?
LOL, you believe He is unable because He is non-existant. Well, thanks for the laughs. Just because He doesn't come down here does not mean He is non-existant
No, but him being non-existent does mean that he cannot "come down". I do not believe he exists because there is no more evidence for his existence than for that of any other supernatural entity.
You have a book of myths. No more likely to be true than any other religious book.
Christianity has three major incredible things threaded through it; faith, hope and love.
When you believe something for emotional reasons, no evidence or logic can persuade you otherwise.
LOL, I'd like to see you try knock Christianity down with "reason". Go on, I dare you - it will be rather a funny thing to watch as you fall flat on your face.
Why are all of your responses so child-like? As a a matter of fact, I can show you the logical and evidential holes in your religion, and when I do, I get angry responses from people like you. As I've stated above, what you don't accept on reason, I cannot dispute using reason.
That is a rather peculiar statement as steadfast faith and patience results in communication with Himself. So, its a funny thing because this is exactly why so many people believe in God.
Communication with God is indistinguishable from communication with oneself.
Do you even know anything about what you are talking about?
From the sounds of it, I've been debating the existence of God since you were in diapers.
Why should I, its rather funny seeing you talk about something that you know absolutely nothing about lol.
Well, for one, it might actually help your argument. So far all you are capable is desperate ad hominems.
the bible interprets a fool in places as a man without God - LOL that totally backfired on you, dumbass.
No, it didn't backfire, because I know what the bible says about fools, I just don't care. The bible is wrong just like it is on numerous subjects.
God wrote the bible through His servants
Why, because the men who wrote the bible says so? If I wrote a book and claimed it was inspired by God, you believe it?
This is circular reasoning.
; I am reading His Word. Seriously, you need to do something about your lack of knowledge on this subject.
I have read the bible, front to back. My father was a gospel singer. I used to be a christian myself.
Eventually I found the stories about virgin birth, Noah's Ark, Talking Bushes, magical gardens, walking on water, angels to be too fantastical to be true. I also found prayer to be wholly ineffective.
Men that were under the power of the Spirit and who were spoken to by God - men that He wrote the bible through.
You don't know that. The only people who COULD know that, are the people who wrote it, you're just taking their word for it.
Yes and I can assume you haven't as Job was most certainly not a fool.
Oh, no
Truly.
Sure why not. It would settle this dispute, wouldn't it
Stop attempting to be smart and read that I proved you wrong instead of jumping in with an irrelevant reply. This debate is seriously verging on pointless if it isn't already.
I have no authority over supernatural beings
Which is precisely why He would not obey you or pander to your needs so quit asking Him to come down here 'cuz it ain't going to happen.
Why should he allow his "children" to go to hell, when it would be so easy for him to convince us that he exists?
You say you have read your bible yet near every statement you make disproves this claim.
No, but him being non-existent does mean that he cannot "come down".
What are you even talking about? I seriously can't be bothered with this debate its boring.
You have a book of myths.
You have a head of mince.
From the sounds of it, I've been debating the existence of God since you were in diapers.
If this is so, then it really isn't obvious as you clearly know very little on this subject.
No, it didn't backfire, because I know what the bible says about fools, I just don't care
Lol, whatever man. This discussion doesn't even have a point. I don't wish to debate with you anymore; you make claims of reading the bible numorous times yet you clearly know nothing about Christianity. This debate is over and if you respond I will not reply.
Yes and I can assume you haven't as Job was most certainly not a fool.
I'm referring to Yahweh making a bet with satan. This not only contradicts your previous claim, but also raises the question as to why an All-knowing Omniscient being would have to enter into a wager at all, causing suffering to an innocent person only to prove something which he (according to modern Christians) already knows.
Which is precisely why He would not obey you or pander to your needs so quit asking Him to come down here 'cuz it ain't going to happen.
I already know he isn't going to come down. You says this is because he doesn't want to. I say it's because he can't.
If an all-knowing, all-powerful, all-loving God could come down, convince every person on the planet, or even just one, that he exists and subsequently "save" them from eternal damnation. I don't see any valid reason such a God wouldn't do so.
Your reason is tantamount to pride, which the bible specifically calls a sin.
You say you have read your bible yet near every statement you make disproves this claim.
The Bible is the single greatest cause of atheism in the western world. I know this because I was once christian myself. Many Christians don't understand the basic tenets of their own religion. A recent study shows that Atheists on average know more about religion than believers.
Most Churches teach what is equivalent to the "Greatest Hits" of the bible. Most of the abhorrent passages are regularly ignored.
Do this for me: Google "Exodus 21:7" and tell me what you find, then explain to me why this is never taught in churches, and trust me I've been to many churches.
You have a head of mince
Yes, that surely shows the superiority of your logic!
ol, whatever man. This discussion doesn't even have a point. I don't wish to debate with you anymore; you make claims of reading the bible numorous times yet you clearly know nothing about Christianity. This debate is over and if you respond I will not reply.
This is as close to someone losing a debate, as I will ever seen on this site.
This is as close to someone losing a debate, as I will ever seen on this site.
I don't debate with assholes, savvy? Have a look on my 'about me' page - you fit in that category. If I sense one (an asshole), I ignore him. I am aware I noted I wouldn't respond but I felt that you needed to know this. P.S. learn to spell. Peace out.
I don't debate with assholes, savvy? Have a look on my 'about me' page - you fit in that category. If I sense one (an asshole), I ignore him.
Yet apparently calling someone a dumbass because they disagree with you is okay, but when someone calls you a fool, suddenly they're the asshole. I've re-read our discussion, and nothing I said was out of line.
The only thing I did, was to make a convincing argument, which made you uncomfortable.
I am aware I noted I wouldn't respond but I felt that you needed to know this. P.S. learn to spell. Peace out.
Of course, you want to end the debate, but you also want the last word. Can't have both.
I think you greatly exaggerate your ability to contrive reasons.
They are not reasons that I just invent - that is what your religion does.
As an omnipotent being doesn't HAVE to do anything, but perhaps he would WANT to make himself known, so that people can believe in him and only him
No, He wouldn't want to pander to the needs of fools.
More so, than he desires to "save" mankind.
He has already given us a second chance and you are blowing yours right now.
And no one is commanding him to do anything
Wrong, you want Him to come down here and present Himself before you. That is a command - which just by the way He isn't going to do.
either he doesn't want it that bad
He wants us so much He gave His only Son for us, why sould He keep doing great things for men that reject Him every day? He shouldn't.
via being nonexistent
LOL, you believe He is unable because He is non-existant. Well, thanks for the laughs. Just because He doesn't come down here does not mean He is non-existant, seriously where is your intelligence?
Religion is able to thrive through Faith
Christianity has three major incredible things threaded through it; faith, hope and love. Not just faith. Furthermore, the true Christians are spoken to and guided by God Himself - it has so many levels :)
As soon as we begin to apply reason, it all falls apart.
LOL, I'd like to see you try knock Christianity down with "reason". Go on, I dare you - it will be rather a funny thing to watch as you fall flat on your face.
If we all waited for God to tell us things directly no one would ever believe in God.
That is a rather peculiar statement as steadfast faith and patience results in communication with Himself. So, its a funny thing because this is exactly why so many people believe in God. Do you even know anything about what you are talking about?
Give me one good reason why I should care about faith
Why should I, its rather funny seeing you talk about something that you know absolutely nothing about lol.
You're a fool
This made me burst out laughing; the bible interprets a fool in places as a man without God - LOL that totally backfired on you, dumbass. Thanks again for the laughs though.
if you don't think you are taking someone's word for it when you read the bible
God wrote the bible through His servants; I am reading His Word. Seriously, you need to do something about your lack of knowledge on this subject.
The bible was written by men
Men that were under the power of the Spirit and who were spoken to by God - men that He wrote the bible through.
I think you greatly exaggerate your ability to contrive reasons.
They are not reasons that I just invent - that is what your religion does.
As an omnipotent being doesn't HAVE to do anything, but perhaps he would WANT to make himself known, so that people can believe in him and only him
No, He wouldn't want to pander to the needs of fools.
More so, than he desires to "save" mankind.
He has already given us a second chance and you are blowing yours right now.
And no one is commanding him to do anything
Wrong, you want Him to come down here and present Himself before you. That is a command - which just by the way He isn't going to do.
either he doesn't want it that bad
He wants us so much He gave His only Son for us, why sould He keep doing great things for men that reject Him every day? He shouldn't.
via being nonexistent
LOL, you believe He is unable because He is non-existant. Well, thanks for the laughs. Just because He doesn't come down here does not mean He is non-existant, seriously where is your intelligence?
Religion is able to thrive through Faith
Christianity has three major incredible things threaded through it; faith, hope and love. Not just faith. Furthermore, the true Christians are spoken to and guided by God Himself - it has so many levels :)
As soon as we begin to apply reason, it all falls apart.
LOL, I'd like to see you try knock Christianity down with "reason". Go on, I dare you - it will be rather a funny thing to watch as you fall flat on your face.
If we all waited for God to tell us things directly no one would ever believe in God.
That is a rather peculiar statement as steadfast faith and patience results in communication with Himself. So, its a funny thing because this is exactly why so many people believe in God. Do you even know anything about what you are talking about?
Give me one good reason why I should care about faith
Why should I, its rather funny seeing you talk about something that you know absolutely nothing about lol.
You're a fool
This made me burst out laughing; the bible interprets a fool in places as a man without God - LOL that totally backfired on you, dumbass. Thanks again for the laughs though.
if you don't think you are taking someone's word for it when you read the bible
God wrote the bible through His servants; I am reading His Word. Seriously, you need to do something about your lack of knowledge on this subject.
The bible was written by men
Men that were under the power of the Spirit and who were spoken to by God - men that He wrote the bible through.
for ever since the beginning of time, it seems, people have had a feeling that theres something special about life...there isnt.god does not exist. ask me any question or give me an argument against my claim.
If you pray with a faithless attitude and a generally disrespectful manner and only wanting to test God's reaction for the sake of wondering if He is real or not, of course He isn't going to snap His fingers for you.
ok. i will. YOU BELIEVE IN GOD BECAUSE YOUR PARENTS TOLD YOU JESUS IS THE SON OF GOD WHEN YOU WERE LITTLE,RIGHT?
well, honestly, i have all the arguments against god right with me and i can debate this all day buddie, im like a fuckin 50 cal. locked n loaded so give your best shot,and oh, i own this debate, as in i started it, so I say who stays and whos banned and the only one i feel like banning is you with your degenerate old world beliefs.
YOU BELIEVE IN GOD BECAUSE YOUR PARENTS TOLD YOU JESUS IS THE SON OF GOD WHEN YOU WERE LITTLE,RIGHT?
Hell no. I rebelled something awful and rejected Christianity for a long time, too long. I soon enough realized the error of my ways though, thankfully.
i have all the arguments against god right with me and i can debate this all day buddie
Well as soon as you begin presenting some solid argument I will debate with you although I don't have all day like yourself as I have work, a kid and husband to look after, so whilst I'm doing that why not go search for a job?
i own this debate, as in i started it, so I say who stays and whos banned and the only one i feel like banning is you
If you ban me, you will only look like you are too afraid to debate me which will further present you as a thick, stupid, cowardly, pathetic little atheist and I'm sure you really don't want this. If you do, go ahead and ban me. If you don't, either debate me with a logical understanding of what we are debating or sit down and shut up. Why ban me just because my beliefs differ to yours? Pathetic. Lastly, has threatening people ever worked for you?
God is a human invention it existed from the beginning of human kind the concept growed with humans first it was fire and the one who controlled fire then when we discovered the logic of fire we started worshiping nature power the sun the wind earth and imagined they had a physical form that could walk talk fight like humans then the concept growed again to many gods doesn't make it a unique thing so the idea shifted to one god some settled that the sun is god but most adopted the one concept that god is there but we can't see him, that with theories of blind faith and our own representation of the fear of death "the after life" ;then to control peoples behaviors split the after life to 2 sections one for the bad "hell" one for the good"heaven". God is our own delusion a delusion of somebody else doing the heavy lifting someone in control that also makes god the perfect way to control people. People will fight great wars in the name of god will justify anything by "the will of god" so god is dangerous in the hand of maniacs and blind believers.
No one has a good reason? For a start, why don't you list the reasons you have been presented with and we can progress from there? If you've "looked everywhere" you must have a fair amount of reasons therefore can list a decent few of them here.
most people don't believe a God exists majorly for lack of proof. Now here,of all the millions of people who are into spiritism,mysticism, soothsaying and witchcraft if there was no value whatsoever with participating in spiritual activity that it has passed on from time to time, why would all these people be wasting their time?! Even from where i come from, what we call JUJU-spiritism is a reality,it's an African reality! It is considerable that there is indeed a spiritual dimension to existence-Proof number one. So Now science holds in it's own territory. Just like the spiritual. As i earlier disputed man,and life in nature generally is too complex and too en sync too have occured by accident, man rules his world, co-exists with animals,he affects the life of people, he improves the life of people, he kills,manipulates, and does any activity worth considering you may argue that that's how life is but could it have been purely by accident? There is a greater force that affects life.
most people don't believe a God doesn't exist majorly for lack of proof. Now here,of all the millions of people who are into spiritism,mysticism, soothsaying and witchcraft if there was no value whatsoever with participating in spiritual activity that it has passed on from time to time, why would all these people be wasting their time?! Even from where i come from, what we call JUJU-spiritism is a reality,it's an African reality! It is considerable that there is indeed a spiritual dimension to existence-Proof number one. So Now science holds in it's own territory. Just like the spiritual. As i earlier disputed man,and life in nature generally is too complex and too en sync too have occured by accident, man rules his world, co-exists with animals,he affects the life of people, he improves the life of people, he kills,manipulates, and does any activity worth considering you may argue that that's how life is but could it have been purely by accident? There is a greater force that affects life.
most people believe a God doesn't exist majorly for lack of proof. Now here,of all the millions of people who are into spiritism,mysticism, soothsaying and witchcraft if there was no value whatsoever with participating in spiritual activity that it has passed on from time to time, why would all these people be wasting their time?! Even from where i come from, what we call JUJU-spiritism is a reality,it's an African reality! It is considerable that there is indeed a spiritual dimension to existence-Proof number one. So Now science holds in it's own territory. Just like the spiritual. As i earlier disputed man,and life in nature generally is too complex and too en sync too have occured by accident, man rules his world, co-exists with animals,he affects the life of people, he improves the life of people, he kills,manipulates, and does any activity worth considering you may argue that that's how life is but could it have been purely by accident? There is a greater force that affects life.
Just because you do not understand the universe, how it began, and how i came to be as is, does not mean you can substitute in an easy answer that God must have done it. The thing is that we all want the answers to life's big questions, I am willing to continue searching tirelessly until I can answer the questions without a doubt using testable scientific method, the greatest minds on earth right now are working on that, probing deep space, smashing open atoms and exploring the history of the universe, we are trying to get real answers. I would rather die not knowing how the universe began, than make up an answer to make myself feel warm and fuzzy inside. The thing is that you aren't willing to wait for a substantive answer that explains reality, you would rather make up an answer than go without knowing. And I understand your position, I understand that it is gratifying to walk around thinking you understand the world because you made up an answer that exempted itself from scrutiny and evidence. But keep in mind, that you don't really know, Science doesn't know all the answers but it is willing to look for them, and you are not, because science prizes truth above satisfaction.
god is an illusionary belief which has been passed on so much some people will just believe. If you look on facts, there is none that solidly prove that it,he,she or whatever exists.
if you think about it belief in god is a simple mistake of forethought and judgement,most people think "of course he exists,''. but then you run into a problem.if god exists,can you prove it. actually i have info from another site that states:if you believe in god then your probably in denial and suffer from ''wishful thinking''. see,if god exists, he must be perfect,right? well problem is well, many different things. you cannot simply group people into plain ''good'' and ''bad'' and send group one to heaven and group 2 to hell. people dont work like that. ive met people who have horrible mental problems and who have ''evil thoughts'' but theyd never act on them.
this is for the person who called me ''an ignorant assumption maker''. god is not real because ive been struggling with mental health issues for the past 4 years. ive had voices tell me, ''im worthless, i should die.''god is not real because ive had images in my head of being drowned by my father as a baby when in fact nothing of the sort ever happened. we are alone in this world. there is no eternal paradise. the quicker you learn and accept that, the easier life will be.
God/Gods and goddesses were the creation of human minds who did not understand how their world worked, due to lack of scientific breakthroughs and technology. It at the time seemed the most logical assumption that all powerful human like entities had power over everything and everyone! We now live in the age of science and have proven this is NOT the case! Those who keep faith in God are looking in the wrong place. You are actually looking within yourself for answers and finding them that way. people need to give themselves more credit and God less! if God did exsist I doubt he would have any interest in who won your baseball game or gold medal etc!
Its has been said that necessity is the mother of invention. The idea of god is a delusion and was invented and reinvented by some intelligent people over centuries because it was necessary back then when physically challenged or mentally weak people who realized it almost impossible to survive otherwise. They made a protection shield around them with the idea of untouchable and unquestionable god and it remained same ever since.
If the majority of people in the world believe in god or gods then im afraid it is a delusion not too believe not the other way around. You say no one can give you an argument that proves god exists well i say give me one that proves he does not.You can neither prove god is there nor prove he is not. What i can show you is that many people are moved to do extrodinary things in the name of god ie. the diciples gave there lives to be tortured and killed because they believed Jesus died and was ressurected.were they deluded?
People have various reasons for believing in a god or gods but not all things are as simple as to be proven by touch and sight.
Logical deductions and reasoning are insignificant in comparrison to wealth of possibilities in the universe. It is like putting together a puzzle if you do not have the full picture so the first thing we do is test the pieces and guess their places this might work wonders for a 200 piece puzzle if you lucky for a 500 piece now image a 1000 piece can you imagine a million or a billion pieces.god is not a 1 piece puzzle that either exist or doesn't. We are deluded if we think we can know God exists!
oh,so your one of those strength -in- numbers type people.ok how about this:have you ever thought about the offering plate in church?why do they have to pass it? now heres a thought, why dont the ministers and members of the church get together and sincerely pray for the money they need? why do churches have to beg mere humans when they have god. now this is what god says in the bible:pray to me for anything and i will hear and answer your prayers. but heres the catch. he needs just one thing in return. i need you to tithe 10 percent of your income to me.etc.
You argue against the Church and provide some valid pointers against their altruism but the Church is not God that Church is human, God is beyond them. Do not judge the message by the quality of the envelope you receive it in.
A skeptic or atheist is governed by two main principles: 1) all beliefs must be supported by
observational evidence, and 2) beliefs that contradict observational evidence cannot be tolerated.
However, strong atheism states that there is no god, even though observational evidence indicates that the universe has a
cause that cannot be detected observationally. So despite the lack of observational evidence for a naturalistic cause for the
universe, the strong atheist believes that the universe has a naturalistic cause and that there is no god, contradicting the tenet that all beliefs should be based upon observational
well why the hell not? people have made up all sorts of ridiculous fantasy creatures like unicorns,elves and fairies. cant people be happy and awe struck by the mere power of nature itself instead of holding onto 2000 year old superstitions? you claim atheists only use ''observational evidence'' to ''prove''things. sorry but thats just the way reality works.
I can not make a logical argument about the existance of God because He is above human logic.I can not describe proof for that which I am unable to fully comprehend. The world faith is largely misconceived as a delusion but the whle concept of belief is that others will miscontruct as such and that there will be doubts and it will shake but the few who truly do belief will be welcomed into the kingdom of God.
ok think about this then: god is outside human logic. if human logic is not enough to understand reality, then debating the existence of god is pointless. it is because of human logic that we arrive at the concept of god.
It is the same thing as asking is earth real? Because God is in earth but not from it. God is real in me. He is only nonexistant to you because you are blinded. You can choose wether or not to beleive in him or not. Regardless God is real God is still here.
It is the same thing as asking is earth real? Because Zeus is in earth but not from it. Zeus is real in me. He is only nonexistant to you because you are blinded. You can choose whether or not to beleive in him or not. Regardless Zeus is real Zeus is still here.
Please tell me how your statement is any more accurate than mine
Because God is not real............Any more then fairys are real.
Your argument explains nothing and can't be used to justify your position as opposed to any other one because there is nothing to back it up. It is a blank statement and if you are going to espouse the reality of your specific god you are going to need a lot better of an argument than that, otherwise I don't know why you believe in your god as opposed to any other noun that can be substituted into your statements.
oh uhm oops sorry im new to this, im kaidon, maybe you were talking to someone else? but if you were talking to me , sorry i keep getting confused about which side of page to type on, my bad:)
All that time I was debating you and you were... Muslim?? Why is your post tagged as 'God is not real' then if you believe in Allah who Muslims believe is God?
I am not Muslim, I thought you could assume that based on my profile or past debates. I simply replaced God with Allah, but I could have used any words such as Zeus, leprechauns or Thor. I am using other words to demonstrate how your argument is no more valid for God than it is for any other deity people have thought up over the years. The argument has nothing unique to it and doesn't persuade me in the slightest, I would ask you if you were persuaded by my reply involving Allah to show you how others who do not share your belief would see your argument.
It wasn't intended to persuade, my persuasion skills work rather differently let me assure you. Furthermore, I don't view people's profiles I tend to just debate hence the reason I assumed you were Muslim when you mentioned Allah is real.
