There is only one question when it comes to abortion, what is it? If it is a human being then it requires a very high level of justification to take it's life. I have simply seen no argument that comes close to proper justification for the taking the life of a innocent human being. The only arguments I have seen are those that try to take away the embryo's humanity and make it less than human. Roe vs Wade was a very poor decision by the Supreme Court because it introduce a major contradiction in the law. The unjustified taking of a human life is considered murder under current law and we have different degrees to further define it. Consider the fact that if you kill a woman with child; you will be charged for two counts of homicide. But if a doctor kills only one of those persons; no charge. The Supreme Court by their ruling overturned the law they were supposed to uphold. The right thing to do would be to overturn this erroneous ruling and restore our rule of law.
76 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
Brilliant. That's it. Abortion is WRONG, and I don't know why some people can't get it through their thick skulls. Hmmm if you were a baby and were going to be born and you were aborted, you probably would care.
47 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
attn Jstantall: so why did Bush change the law when he had a Republican Congress and receptive Federal judges ??? you can't blame this on limp Democrats or socialist liberals
76 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
Well, if you have a lame duck congress who stonewalls him on everything; I think it would be reasonable to blame them. But that's not the question at hand is it? The question is; what is being killed in an abortion? that's the only one that matters.
76 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
is Bush # 43 ancient history? during his eight years, he had a Republican controlled Congress that was NOT in a lame duck status even when it was so-called lame duck, are yah telling me that the Republicans would have voted against Bush administration abortion restrictions ? they had the 50+% Congressinal majority and could have forced a Senate filibuster debate but i suspect that the Republican leadership primarily give the anti-abortionist lip service
76 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
FYI Jstantall in 2004 Bush won re-election the Republicans increased their Senate majority from 51 to 55 seats the Republicans increased their Congressional majority from 229 to 231 the Republican party was not in a lame duck status and could have curbed Roe versus Wade excuses, excuses, excuses ...
76 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
FYI The question is not who did or didn't do this or that. The question is should abortion be banned. I say it already is. We already have laws against murder; it's just that Roe vs Wade made a loop hole in the law and that ought to scare the hell out of any sane individual. Because with that ruling a whole class of people just became non persons and no longer protected under the Constitution. Abortion is the unjustified taking of a human life in the early stages of development and that is wrong. And if it is within in your power to stop it and you don't; you are just as guilty, regardless of your political affiliation.
75 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
Even if the senate could overturn Roe vs Wade, 55-51 in the Senate is really not much of a majority. Hell, if you look at the current Senate they have 60 members and they can't even get anything done. The Democrats could have easily filibustered any attempt that would have been as controversial as removing abortion laws.
75 days ago | Tagged As: Both sides are self-righteous assholes
I agree, go back and look at the record of Congress under Bush; it's record is shameful. If Bush couldn't get appointees even voted on; How could he possible address such a controversial subject as abortion?
75 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
... okay, I just looked at it. So what exactly did Bush want that he didn't get? I see nothing here... including that bs war in Iraq, the unconstitutional "Patriot" Act, and that 900 billion dollar tax cut that didn't do jack to help the economy. That's not really the point though. This is about abortion, go ahead, try and make it illegal. The world has been through this a dozen times, and for hundreds of years. Illegal Abortions prevent 0 abortions from happening, and kills woman that have to go to basements and the homes of people who may or may not be doctors to get the procedure, and who often die as a result. Amen right man ._.
71 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
I would rather lose a handful of women occasionally through botched abortions than sacrifice on average 1500 children daily to save those women. If perfection is your standard for law then you are correct, however laws were meant to restrain. And prior to Roe vs Wade the law against abortion did that quite well, perfection? No. Made it rare? most certainly. And what happened after Roe vs Wade? abortions went through the roof. Laws are meant to keep us from killing ourselves off but Roe vs Wade does the opposite. it sanctions it. Consider Europe, within a hundred years, if not sooner, Europeans will cease to exist as a unique people group. Why? Zero Population growth. They're not reproducing and when they do, they kill it. Europe will be a Muslim nation within our lifetime, Why? They're having families. So please tell me why we should follow the Europeans into extinction?
69 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
1. duh, the point is these woman are going to have an abortion whether it's banned or not. So either the cluster of cells is removed and the woman lives. Or the cluster of cells is removed and the woman dies. Either way, abortion being banned has never in human history stopped people from getting abortions. 2. No, it didn't make it rare, that's the point. Banning abortion doesn't stop it, it just hides it and demonizes woman, who many times are only children at the time, and who many times were raped. And you wonder why no one likes talking hardcore Christians about this kind of thing. 3. wtf? have you been reading the white supremacist newsletter again? Europe's population is doing just fine. And there's nothing wrong in and of itself if they do end up having more muslims than whatever they have now. Who cares? Why's it your business what someone else does? And who the fuck is "we" you arrogant ass. The US does not have a "we" we're supposed to be founded on the idea of diversity and freedom. I find this entire post incredibly offensive, and you get a rare downvote from me.
69 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
You said 'who many times were raped' I say ONLY 1% OF ALL ABORTIONS IN THE UNITED STATES ARE BECAUSE THE PREGNANCY IS THE RESULT OF RAPE OR INCEST!!!!! I have posted this many times. What would you say if a court ruling said that a child is not a human being until the age of 15? The murder rate of children would INCREASE. The abortion numbers INCREASED AFTER Roe v. Wade. The numbers would DECREASE SIGNIFICANTLY if abortion was illegal.
14 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
I am pro-life. I am a faithful Christian. I have five younger siblings. The two youngest I remember their life clearly. I want you to look at a one day old baby, look at her fingers, toes, face, legs, watch her breathe, and watch her interact with people and tell she was not a human being in the womb. I want you to watch a 2 year old play with her baby sister and tell me that the baby was not a human being in the womb. I want you to look at a one day old baby, look at her fingers, toes, face, legs, watch her breathe, and watch her interact with people and tell she was not a human being in the womb. If you can do either of these, I will be astounded about how emotionless you are. And I will pray that some day abortion is illegal.
14 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
I've seen these videos. If it's not self-aware it's not a human yet, no matter what it looks like. You're talking about you're feelings and what you believe because you're a typical self-righteous self-involved christian completely incapable of understanding that what you think and feel is not what everyone else thinks and feels. The laws put in place on abortion take into account what science finds to be true not how you feel helliom or what you think some invisible daddy in the sky wants you to feel. Abortion is illegal after the third trimester except in extreme circumstances. Before then it's not a human yet, it's the specific woman's body and not yours, and it's none of your business. That's how it is and that's how it should be, no matter how many of you right wing nuts highjack this site and serial downvote us sane and logical participants on the site.
14 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
Its me again! "...If it's not self-aware it's not a human yet, no matter what it looks like" Then why are we so worried about the trees? Are they are "self aware"? Actually, human children are not self aware for some time AFTER birth. Does that mean we can dump them if we change our minds? "...Abortion is illegal after the third trimester except in extreme circumstances" Not exactly true. There are states, and forgive me for not remembering right off the top of my head which ones, that allow abortion "up to the moment of birth" I will see if I can find that one. "...no matter how many of you right wing nuts high jack this site and serial down vote us sane and logical participants on the site." Now thats disappointing. I really thought after reading some of you responses that you were more open and intelligent than this. Isn't it cool to be tolerant anymore?
14 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
great ._. 1. Who's worried about trees? It just doesn't make sense to cut all of them down without planting new ones, since then all humans would die, born or not. 2. Um, kids are self-aware, they just don't develop empathy until sometime after birth. But a new born has feelings, knows when it's hungry, etc. Therefore it's wrong to throw them in dumpsters. 3. True, and it's state to state. But even the states that do allow it up to birth, again it is only in extreme circumstances. If I'm a woman in any state and I'm due in a week, and my life is not in danger, and I'm not a child myself and I wasn't raped by my dad or something, then abortion is not an option. And I'm fine with that actually, I think it's the right law. 4. About 2 or 3 months ago I'd say 5 right wing nuts showed up here and downvoted nearly every argument I've ever made in my over a year on this site. It's why I don't show up as often. If someone wants to disagree fine, but use facts and logic. I'm tired of having the Bible quoted at me, responses rife with logical fallacies, responses that didn't bother to read what I wrote, and those who need to announce their faith before making an argument when their faith has 0 to do with the argument. I never downvote or insult anyone just because I disagree, I do so when they act like a moron, whether I agree with them or not.
14 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
1. The argument I was trying to make is that the Left seems to be more concerned about saving trees than they are HUMAN BEINGS. Thats another "debate" I guess. 2. OK not an argument here but I would appreciate some clarification...is it empathy or self awareness we are waiting for before we call them human? The reason I am asking is because it was my experience with my son that he almost immediately could sense his mothers emotional state and reacted in kind. He recognized both my wife's and my voice and music that he heard while in the womb. 3. I somewhat agree on this one in that if the birth risks the life of both the mother and the baby then there is no choice. I will admit I would anguish over a decision like that for the rest of my life. As far as rape goes...while it is certainly not the fault of the mother that it happened to her it is also not the fault of the child. 4. I understand that but remember "when your enemy makes you angry ...they win" Someone really smart and famous said that but for the life of me I cant recall who. Try not to forget that "facts" and "logic" vary according to each individuals viewpoint and at times, can be subjective both on the right and the left. They are as tired of you quoting science that they dont believe in as your are of them using a book that you dont believe in. Both groups have absolute belief in their sources. If they are "right wing nuts" let them be....wont that just about make your argument for you? Dad always said that we catch more flies with honey than we do vinegar!
14 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
1. The left is generally anti-war, pro healthcare, pro helping starving people in Africa, etc, all of which saves lives. Since I don't consider a fetus a life, from my standpoint the right is more concerned with vague moral standards only shared by the right than saving lives, but whatever. 2. I'm talking about self-awareness, as in feelings. A fetus before the third trimester has 0 capacity to feel. They're not sad about being aborted, it doesn't hurt them, they don't have these human emotions yet. This is what I'm talking about. That an already born child likes its mom in no way invalidates this point. 3. And here is the disconnect, you are absolutely correct. But the leap so many on the right are not willing to make is that abortion is always something to anguish over. Sure, there are bitches (and I don't use that term lightly) who simply don't care. But the vast vast vast majority of abortions are performed by women who feel they simply have no choice. It is not a party. But it's their choice, something they have to live with. Not the right wing, not you personally, just her, no one else's business. The only thing making abortions illegal would change is the number of mothers who die with the child. That's all it changes no matter how pretty this anti-abortion idea that "if we just shove what we really really really feel down everyone's throat everyone will live happily ever after, amen" - that's not how it works. Woman have been having abortions one way or another, legal or illegal, since the beginning of time. As for your point about rape. It's not the fault of the "child" only because the "child" doesn't exist. It's a cluster of cells and if she wants to abort it it's her choice, again, not yours. 4. facts and logic never vary. People are wrong about facts and logic, but in and of themselves, they are constant. It is a fact the earth is round for example. Some have the "opinion" it is not, but this is not an opinion, this is simply wrong. There is a fact at the bottom of when a fetus becomes self-aware, people who study biology for a decade before becoming a doctor believe this to be around the 3rd trimester. Whatever the answer really is, I trust the dude who studied it for a decade over people who think they speak in tongues and give their live savings to Jerry Falwell. Is the exact moment as definite as the shape of the earth? No, probably not. But it's not that big a mystery, and while a valid opinion may vary by a month or so of when this elusive self-awareness begins, it most certainly is not upon conception, or even 2 or 3 months later. It's akin at that point to saying the earth has to be flat because when I stand on my roof I can't see it curve. Here's the difference between an argument with two different opinions, and the abortion debate. Indulge me, I enjoy coming up with analogies. 2 people are walking through a forest. 1 wants to go left, the other right. The one who wants to go right says they both have to go right. The one who wants to go left says his friend can go right if he likes, but for himself, he thinks he should be able to choose. That's the gist of it. It's not a matter of two sides fighting about what everyone should do. It's about one side trying to force everyone to do something they may or may not want to and the other saying since we really don't know where either leads, people should have the choice.
12 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
Have you ever seen an ultrasound? Have you ever seen a desperate teen change her mind to have an abortion after seeing her ultrasound? Have you seen a 3-D ultrasound? All these moments are life changing!
10 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
This is ridiculous. Yes I've seen all of this stuff. I even had a girlfriend who had an abortion. You're being ridiculous, just because you feel something doesn't make it true.
7 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
What videos? I never mentioned videos or movies! I was talking about watching my two baby sisters play with each other
10 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
I assumed another ultrasound video, and I've seen like 50 of them. But this is even worse, no one wants to see your sisters, and that video has 0 to do with abortion since they are already born.
7 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
He tried to fight abortion, the double homicide law was put in place when he was in office. The problem with the Roe vs Wade ruling is that in order for it to be overturned the Supreme Court must take action because of checks and balances. So people can protest to Congress and the President all they want, but unless the courts take action it won't matter.
75 days ago | Tagged As: Both sides are self-righteous assholes
You are correct about the double homicide law; however the contradiction is inherent in the ruling itself. The double homicide law was only raised to illustrate this. In fact I would argue that the law (double homicide) came to be because of the contradiction. You might be correct about overturning the ruling. It might take another case challenging this ruling and it's constitutionality.
75 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
You are correct about the double homicide law; however the contradiction is inherent in the ruling itself. The double homicide law was only raised to illustrate this. In fact I would argue that the law (double homicide) came to be because of the contradiction. You might be correct about overturning the ruling. It might take another case challenging this ruling and it's constitutionality.
75 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
There is only one question when it comes to abortion, what is it? There are more questions than that.. sorry If it is a human being then it requires a very high level of justification to take it's life. So you admit that there are some cases where it is justifiable. The next question then is who gets to decide? Should it be society at large via established government institutions or should it be a private matter left to the sovereignty of the family unit and those health care professionals they consult?
71 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
Let me clarify my position, since I misstated it. The first question that needs to be asked is " what kind of life is it?" If it is a human life then no reason for abortion is adequate. Therefore no further questions are needed. I find it rather disturbing that we want to have sex without commitments so badly that we are willing to kill the result of that sexual union. But isn't that just like human nature, everything is just fine until something conflicts with what we want and stands between us and what we desire. Then laws get broke, peace treaties ignored, property taken and people killed. But the most heinous crime is when we make laws to exonerate ourselves. When we call evil, good. We may be guiltless before the law but that doesn't mean we are not without real quilt. But praise be to God that He has provided a solution to the two greatest problems man faces, guilt and death. With God there is forgiveness, but not without great cost.
69 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
Since I disagree with you so often I will snip out some portions of what you typed that I do agree with: I find it rather disturbing that we want to have sex without commitments so badly that we are willing to kill the result of that sexual union the most heinous crime is when we make laws to exonerate ourselves. When we call evil, good. See I don't disagree with you completely.
69 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
The first question that needs to be asked is " what kind of life is it?" If it is a human life then no reason for abortion is adequate. Therefore no further questions are needed. That is an example of what is called jumping to conclusions. You have not established that it abortion is never justified. Even if it is agreed (which I do agree with you) that it is a human life.
56 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
Ok let me clarify,But let me say I'm not sure why you are pushing this point, but my guess is that it has something to do with authority and you want to make a point about that. So let me modify what I said; the reasons commonly given for abortions are in adequate. In the case that the mothers life is endangered, it should be the case that the attending physician should make every attempt and exhaust every means possible to save the life of mother and child, Abortion should never be considered as an easy out, quick fix or money saving option, But if it comes down to it, I think every mother would lay down their lives for their children, it's the most humane thing to do and the most loving; to lay down your life on behalf of someone else. So even in this case I would still maintain that it should not be an option and I think it would be hard to give an adequate reason why the child's life should be taken and not the mothers. I think this maintains the sanctity of the child's life throughout and at this point the moral dilemma moves from the child into other areas. And the Husband and Wife should make the call, if circumstances necessitate it.
54 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
OK this is not an argument against abortion but I do think it is a good reason they should be banned. I'll let the story speak for it's self.
Supporting Evidence:
Be a Voice for Life
(deltackett.com)
27 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
Most abortions occur at 10 weeks, can somebody please look at these pictures and please tell me what that is if it's not human. And if you dare go watch the video silent scream and please tell me what is going on there, because they sure aren't removing a clump of cells. If your are for abortion please tell me what that is they are sucking out into the trash. I don't think most people know what an abortion is, nor have they seen one. If you are for abortion at least inform yourself and watch the video silent scream and make an educated call about abortion
Supporting Evidence:
Fetus at 10 Weeks
(www.baby2see.com)
69 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
You're so closed minded it's ridiculous. In fact, quite a few people have experienced abortion first hand, and it's never an easy decision, but sometimes it is the right one. It doesn't matter what the thing looks like. Science tells us that thing is not yet a sentient being, therefore it is not killing a sentient being. Cute pictures does not = sound scientific reasoning. You don't like abortion. Fine, don't have one, but that you choose not to believe the fact that at ten weeks that little thing has 0 sense of self, does not constitute any type of proof that abortion should be banned for those who choose to undergo it before that thing is sentient. No one is for abortion once the child is self-aware. A self-aware human should not be aborted. That is not a self-aware human, no matter how cute. And that said, the vast vast majority of abortions take place before the first couple weeks. And that said, most science says there is not even a hint of possible self-awareness until around 26 weeks!
69 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
I guess you were not man enough to match the video Silent Scream because that video clearly show a fetus doing what you say it can't; showing signs of awareness. I also I didn't say" few people have experienced abortion first hand". What I said is that few really know what it is. About being "closed minded "it doesn't matter what the thing looks like." If it looks human and genetically it's human; it probably is human. The question still remains unanswered: What kind of being is it? Your attempt to redefine the question hasn't changed the question, nor does it answer it. And a question not properly answered doesn't go away. That's why abortion is still a hot topic 35yrs after Roe vs Wade. There are a lot of people for whom something seems dreadfully wrong and for those of you who support abortion to dismiss us with some fancy mental gymnastics is simply inadequate. So please, answer the question. You also lose credibility with statements like these"the vast vast majority of abortions take place before the first couple weeks." How do you abort something you don't know you have? In most cases it's a missed period that tips the woman off and that takes time. Facts are annoying things when they contradict you and you can't make them go away by changing them. Do your research first before you make assertions like this, Because for those of us who have. you lose credibility. But I think you make my point that most people don't know much about abortion. But tell me iamdavidh, were you ever an unborn baby? Because if you were. you have to acknowledge that an abortion would have killed you, not something else but you. And that means abortion kills people in the early stages of their life not something else that later becomes them, but them.
67 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
Listen, you want to believe it's a living thing based on that video, fine, I'll trust science. If science says it's a sentient being, I'll be against it. In the meantime, don't make these poor girls feel worse they they already do about the whole thing. So you're against it, but obviously a lot of people think that "silent scream" is rubbish. You know what, beatles make a noise when you squish them. They're not sentient though, and they actually have more brains than a fetus before the first couple weeks. Meanwhile, these poor girls, half the time they were raped, or their still just kids them self, and you get these nuts calling them nazis and killers and everything else, you know what, they're not killers. I don't know what a fetus is, you don't, but science does, and science says they aren't people yet. It says they're people after the third-trimester, before then, leave these girls alone until you have some scientific proof beyond, "I really really really really feel it's a living person." And to the last ridiculous paragraph. Had I been aborted I would have never existed, and so no, I would not have been killed. So there. I was a sperm once too, should guys stop ejaculating?
67 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
Science has been wrong in the past. If science were always blindly trusted, we would never progress. It is challenging science that makes us find new and better answers.
58 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
You are wrong about science saying it is not a human being. SCIENCE SAYS IT IS A HUMAN BEING. SCIENCE SAYS THAT THIS BABY IS VERY DEVELOPED AT TWELVE WEEKS. I thought you might want to know this.
Supporting Evidence:
MIlestones of Early Life
(www.abortionfacts.com)
14 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
You should spend more time thinking about what you say before you type because you are starting to appear irrational.
64 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
... science is irrational ... and pretending you hear the screams of things that haven't developed vocal cords is perfectly sane got it, thanks for the heads up :/ These downvotes don't impress me either. I realize there is a religious coupe going on on create debate right now. But you'll get bored of being wrong eventually and move along to a site that will reinforce your misguided opinions instead of challenging them. Don't worry about saying good-bye, I hate long good byes and I tear up, you know, the emotion and all...
64 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
You are good at making my point thank you. A question not properly answered never goes away, and equivocating on terms is a poor attempt to cloud the issue. It does appear you are rather uninformed about fetal development. I do hope you would be more open minded and consider the possibility that you might actually be mistaken. I only down vote faulty logic :) and insult is no argument, please deal with ihe issue at hand and actually respond to what is said and not what you think is said.
64 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
AT NINE WEEKS A BABY HAS A HEART BEAT ONCE AGAIN I ASK YOU TO READ THIS LINK!!!!
Supporting Evidence:
Milestones of Early Lif
(www.abortionfacts.com)
14 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
I'd like to take the time to address several tings that have been raised in this debate and clarify my argument against abortion. First, the affect this debate has on women who have had abortions. This reality has weighed heavily on my conscience. But I think a greater issue is at stake here and therefore the cost is worth it. The greater good that is being served here is the hope that abortion on demand might someday be ended and that the emotional trauma it causes to women will be ended also. The holocaust of abortion will not be ended until people see and know the reality of what it is. It has been stunning to see through the course of this debate the lengths people will go to so as to sugar coat this issue and make it appear not so bad; and actually justifiable. So my effort is to make that know as best I can. But the truth is that when women, who have had abortions, come to a correct understanding of what has happened there is real pain and real quilt; and that certainly is not to be dismissed. So for those who have had abortions I say there is a way out of the pain and quilt; true forgiveness is possible. There is only one way out and that is through the great exchange; God in Christ takes your life and He gives you His. When He died, you died and the charges against you are paid in full, the debt is canceled. Then the life of perfection He lived becomes yours; it is laid to your account. So you go from an infinity negative debt to an infinity positive righteousness. And through His resurrection you are raised to newness of life. This is only possible through repentance and faith. Confess your sins and trust God to do for you what he said He would in Christ. This faith is not a leap in the dark, like crossing your fingers. It is an active trust, like standing on solid ground; a confident expectation in the faithfulness of God. With that said I would like to clarify my argument against abortion further and answer the question should abortion be banned. But let me preface my argument with a disclaimer. I realize there is a difference between proof and persuasion. There is no argument that I can put forth that can't be disputed. There are actually people who will argue for the reality of square circles. So I put this argument forth for those who are truly open-minded; in hopes you will be persuaded. The taking of the life of an innocent human being without proper justification is murder and murder is illegal. Abortion takes the life of an innocent human being without proper justification. therefore it is murder and should be illegal
61 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
I should further say to disprove this argument you have to falsify it's key premise and that is: abortion takes the life of an innocent human being That' why this whole debate hinges on one key question: What is it? And genetically it is human. It has it's own unique and complete chromosome which makes it distinct from it's parents and wholly different from the egg and sperm used to create it. Since this syllogism is sound and it's premises are verifiable you will have to resort to irrationality and unscientific assertions to disprove it.
60 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
I will take the bait for fun. I assume (unless you refute it explicitly) you agree that there are somecases where abortion is merited or "medically necessary" Who is the proper authority for determining medical necessity? expected answer from you (according to the way I think you think):Government Answer I would give: The doctor and those consulted by the pregnant woman. Abortion is not banned. The murder of the unborn is illegal and punishable as murder. Abortion is not murder if you admit that it is ever done by medical necessity and without malicious intent. since this argument is flawless, all who disagree are just plain old sloppy thinkers ~sarcastic snicker
57 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
No, I disagree. There is no right time to have an abortion.
14 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
OK agreed you have to establish intent. However, all abortions are premeditated, what say you? Your assumption of my answer would be false, see my other response for the answer. However to your point,you plain old sloppy thinker you, My qualification was: without proper justification and in this case it could be argued as proper justification. However, the point of my syllogism was to highlight the importance of the question: what kind of life is it your objection highlights the point more becuse there would be no moral dilemma if it was a chicken.
54 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
During the Holocaust, approximately 11 million people were killed between 1933 till 1945. These people include Jews, homosexuals, Slavics (Russians, Poles, and others), Gypsies, mentally and physically disabled, Communists, Socialists, Jehovah's Witnesses, and Christians found helping the targeted people. That was fifty years ago and today Hitler and the Nazis are known as criminals and mass murderers. But why are the doctors who perform abortions not called criminals or mass murderers? From 1973 to 2005, over 46 million abortions have been performed. This is much higher death rate than from the Holocaust. For abortion the approximate death rate is 1.4 million babies each year. The approximate death rate for the Holocaust, however, is about 917 thousand people a year. The Nazis targeted the people they did because they believed they were inferior to themselves. Women who have abortions kill their babies because they believe that they are superior to these children. To this day, Germans have collective shame because of what the Nazis did, even though they did nothing to help. In fifty years will Americans have collective shame because so many abortions were performed? Will Americans be known as mass murderers and criminals? The subject of abortion and the Holocaust are very closely related subjects. The Jews were killed because they were unwanted and inconvenient. A child is aborted because they are unwanted and inconvenient. I want you to tell me the Holocaust was wrong and then tell me abortion is okay. You just can't do that. One can't be wrong and the other right. That is like saying rape is wrong but incest is okay.
14 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
come to think of it... Many childern have been killed due to abortion. But if you had given them a chance to live, then they would have proved worthwhile to live! Just think how many masterminds have been killed before birth? If they had lived, may be they would have made their world a peaceful heaven!!
54 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
I would just like to add one more thing. Everyone who is for abortion seems to insist this should solely be the woman's decision. Why is that? What about the father? Why should he have no say in a child that he would have to bear legal responsibility to if it were born? Suppose, a father says he does not want the child and she has it anyway. He is still legally liable to this child. Now, suppose the opposite. He wants the child, is willing to raise this child without any financial support from the mother and is willing to bear all financial burden of the mother while she is unable to work. He should not have this right?
53 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
Abortion should definetly be banned! Their is a lot of things to prevent pregnancies such as condoms, birth control and getting your tubes tied! If you know you are not old enough or financially stable to take care of a child then don't have sex, just use protection. Don't just look for the easy way out because of your mistake! i don't get how if you kill somebody then you get charged for murder, and spend the rest of your life in prison....when on the other hand having an abortion is murdering a baby. To me that doesnt make any sense...and some people say but what if the person got raped and ended up pregnant.....well you can give it up for adoption, i feel that women who have abortions are selfish and are only thinking about themselves. They really don't care about what the baby goes through and that is completely wrong!
49 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
100% i think its wrong! I am not religious, but who has the right to take a life? Isn't that the very reason Murderer's are punished? If a person really can't have a child because they aren't ready, or any other reason, then surly it is fairer to still give that life a chance and put the baby up for adoption to a family who is desperate for a baby and can't have one for themselves?
47 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
15 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
15 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
Unborn babies are living things and when you kill them, it is the same thing as killing an adult or a child. God is the creator of life and when you kill unborn babies you are destroying his creations. In the beginning God created Adam by breathing the breath of life into his nostrils. “For you formed my inward parts; you knitted me together in my mother’s womb.” Psalm 139:13. Abortion is when you kill an unborn baby, and the people who do this are selfish because they don't want to spend money on the baby, confused because they don't want to be pregnant, and evil because they kill children, they also don't trust god and what he provides. If somebody did this they would be breaking the fifth commandment: You shall not murder. He or she is also breaking the first commandment : You shall have no other gods. You should help everyone stay healthy and alive. I have four sisters and I am glad none of us have been aborted.
14 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
I wrote this speech...read it and it will answer your questions. Abortion: Choose Life-it begins at Conception: Think about this. A girl had an abortion, thinking that the baby wasn’t living so it wouldn’t matter. But, after she had the abortion, she saw what she thought wasn’t living, and it actually was. The baby was living and she watched it die. From then on, she couldn’t even live with herself knowing that she killed a living human being. This story that I just told you is true. A lot of women think that it isn’t a baby before they have the abortion, and I will explain to you that abortion is the killing of a living baby. Well, if life doesn’t begin at birth, then when does it begin? Life begins at conception. This is a fact, because there is a lot of proof that can back that fact up. For example, there is scientific proof and there is Biblical proof. To further explain what abortion is, I will talk about these important things: one, it is spiritually right that life begins at conception, two, how scientifically there is proof that life begins at conception, Three, what we can do about the abortions, and finally, why girls get abortions. Those are all the things that should be thought about, so I will be explaining them, to help you understand them. Some woman have abortions because of these three things: one, They might think that they’re too young to have a baby, two, their boyfriend or spouse makes them have an abortion, three, if they do have the abortion the girl’s parents would get mad at her. The case also might be that she just doesn’t want to deal with the baby. First, you probably ought to know what abortion is. Abortion is killing the baby inside you when you are pregnant. Every year 1.5 million babies are killed by abortion. That’s 125,000 babies killed a month, making it 4,000 babies killed each day, or one baby killed every 20 seconds, that is so amazingly awful. That is basically one murder happening every 20 seconds. How brutal. The fact that life begins at conception is spiritually right. As it says in the Bible; Jeremiah 1:5 says, “Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you, before you were born I set you apart.” The Bible says that life begins at conception, meaning that right at conception the baby becomes a living human being. There are many Bible verses that back up the fact that life begins at conception, like the one I just said. That Bible verse, Jeremiah 1:5 is saying that God intended a unique human being, starting at conception. Just because you can’t see or feel the baby inside of you, doesn’t mean it’s not a baby, and alive and a human being, just like you. That is what a lot of people do not think about, even though you really should. There also is scientific proof. Some people may think that life begins at birth, or some people even later, but that is wrong, life begins at conception. Because of the fact that the baby forms gradually after conception, then conception is the only real point where you can say that the baby is a living human being. For example, the heart beat starts gradually, over a period of time so conception is the only exact starting point of life. Also, DNA defines a separate human being, and so when does a person form their own DNA? A person gets their own DNA at conception. That is a whole lot of proof, so it is just like saying it is a crime to kill a 1 year old, so why isn’t it a crime to kill a baby when he or she is still in the mother’s womb? That is a question that probably will go unanswered forever, or they will just say that the baby is not living, which is a complete lie. Now, what can we do about abortion? There many things that we can do about abortion. If you start supporting this pro-life movement then it will keep growing so much then no one will have an abortion. Hopefully then the abortion clinics will shut down, and the law will have to change. But, most importantly you can change the hearts of the people who support abortion, and save the innocent little babies. Now, how can we stop abortion? There are many ways to help stop abortion. Another way is you can donate money to a place like The Pregnancy Resource Center and they will use it to buy an ultrasound machine and to then show the women their babies to try to convince them not to have an abortion. You can also write to the president or another government representative, and tell them about all this proof that I have told you, hoping that their hearts will change and then the law. In conclusion to all of this, it is spiritually right that life begins at conception, and scientifically there is proof that life begins at conception. There are many ways that you can help stop abortion, so I hope that you take a while and do that. There are a lot of things wrong with having an abortion, so you really should not have one. Just remember that God loves the person getting the abortion AND the beautiful, innocent little babies. Thank you and I hope that you have realized that life begins at conception, you should help the pro-life movement, and that having an abortion is wrong. My own mother has 6 children and has never had an abortion!!
13 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
I say they should, but it depends. If the woman got raped or a mother could die, I could see some instances where they should not be banned. But basically everything else to me should be banned. So, due to majority, I will say it should be banned :). The term abstinence has apparently become extinct these days...
76 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
I agree with you except on the issue of rape. Why should the child be killed for a crime they didn't commit?
75 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
Why should the woman carry out the child for a crime in which she was a victim and for a child she did not want to have? It could go both ways. Leave it up to the woman to decide.
75 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
Abortion for Rape Victims? By Gregory Koukl If we allowed an abortion under those circumstances it would send a terrible message, that when someone reminds you of something extremely painful you can eliminate them. But you can't kill another human being just because their existence makes your life physically or emotionally burdensome. If I had a law on my desk that restricted abortion except in the cases of rape or incest I would sign it, even though I don't think rape and incest ought to be exceptions. I'd just rather save 98% of the children whose lives are taken through abortion rather than none. ©1999 Gregory Koukl. Reproduction permitted for non-commercial use only. For more information, contact Stand to Reason at 1438 East 33rd St., Signal Hill, CA 90755 (800) 2-REASON (562) 595-7333 www.str.org
You are assuming from a Christian article that everyone in the world must believe in Christianity, which can't happen because God gave man free will. Of course it is not morally right if you are a Christian, but not everyone is a Christian and you have to respect their rights as well. Did not Jesus command, 'love your neighbor as yourself'? Your neighbor could be a Christian, atheist, wiccan, whatever, could they not? It is not up to you to judge someone, leave that to God. No matter what you do or say, people will continue to have abortions in the world. It is an unfortunate fact of life, similar to war, similar to racism, similar to obesity. You see them committing a sin and loudly call them out, but you are being hypocritical because you also sin. You are saying that you are perfect and never sin, which, unless you are Jesus coming back down again, is impossible. I am a Christian as well, but I realize that it is wrong to judge and criticize someone for sinning when I do the same thing as well, albeit a different type. Like I said earlier, leave the judging to God.
74 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
So let me see if I understand you. Killing children isn't actually wrong. It is only if you believe it is. So what Hitler did was good because he thought it was. And it would be good, by your logic, to kill you so long as I believed it was right. Since when does right and wrong depend on what one believes? This is certainly not the view of right and wrong that Jesus of Nazareth held. To be a follower of Him means to hold the same worldview has he does. About loving: To love someone means to seek the very best for them and protect them from what harms them, You can't say you love someone and then stand by when they are being harmed when it is within your power to do something. Humans in the early stages of life just happen to be your neighbor. Go back and read the passage on the Good Samaritan. Your position is the one the Pharisee took and the one Jesus condemned. about judging: The passage of scripture were Jesus deals with judging doesn't condemn judging nor forbid it. It does condemn judging hypocritically however. It then goes on to say " first remove the log from your own eye and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brothers" If judging is wrong for you? why did you judge what I wrote? are you saying that you are perfect and never sin? I guess you don't leave the judging to God do you.
74 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
No, you are way out in left field. Stop the red herrings and keep it to the topic. What does Hitler have to do with abortions? As I said earlier, one of two commandments to adhere to as a Christian (that Jesus said himself in the gospels) is to love your neighbor as yourself. Let me ask you, what did Jesus believe about abortions, since you feel that my interpretation is not right? What is the view of right and wrong according to Jesus of Nazareth? You stand by and watch people kill each other during war. What kind of love is this? Yes, you can do something concerning abortions. Judging them as a murderer however does not encompass this. That is the main point of my argument. I am saying you cannot judge someone to be murderer and that they are automatically going to hell because they have an abortion. What do you mean by 'judging what I wrote'? Judging to me is calling a male gay because he wears pink, calling a person retarded because they fail a grade in school, and calling a person hell-bound who has an abortion. Apparently you did not read the last part of my statement concerning sin. Also, I need to know what your definition of judging is, since you disagree with mine.
74 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
Lets see Hitler killed people. abortions kill people. Wow your right, no correlation at all, a true red herring. Want to know what Jesus taught about abortion, right and wrong and judging people? Go get your Bible and knock off the dust because it would be wise to ask Him not me. Final thought; We are all lawbreakers and apart from the grace of God, all of us are going to prison for a long time for comic treason. And since the one we offended is infinite in worth, the debt we owe is infinite also. So consider what infinity minus 10 thousand is, infinity. That's how long it will take to pay the debt. But that's not the question at hand is it; it's about abortion. And for that there is only one question; what's being killed? If it's not human, no justification is necessary. No one needs justification to remove a tumor do they? But if it's a human being killed in an abortion then no justification is adequate. So if you think abortions shouldn't be banned, please tell me exactly what is being killed in an abortion,
73 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
Hitler was a murderer for having abortions? Like I said, keep it to the topic. Hmm, lets see...You dispute me, I ask for evidence as to why you dispute me, you come up with "go check the Bible." I'm still waiting for the evidence. I ask two simple questions. What did Jesus say about abortions? What is right and wrong according to Jesus? I mean, if you want to cop out and not answer them, you shouldn't keep the debate going, since you were the one who disputed me. We are all lawbreakers. So how should one type of sin get emphasized over the other? God looks at every sin the same way, except for blasphemy against HS. A person who commits a murder commits the same sin in the eyes of God as someone who lies. Why are you trying to deny it? You have no right to tell someone that their sin is worse than yours, because you are not God, and God does not judge sins that way except for one, blasphemy against HS. "Go get your Bible" if you think I am wrong. I can't keep arguing with you if you continue to take the debate off topic. We are talking specifically about whether you should judge someone as a murderer and hell-bound if they have an abortion. I have said this throughout my past statements, yet you want to keep diverting the topic to something you feel comfortable with. I put my first statement under the 'abortions should be banned' view for a reason. The question is not about what is being killed in an abortion. Obviously it is a human being imo. Again, stop cop-ing out and keep it to the topic. Should you judge someone as a murderer and hell-bound if they have an abortion?
73 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
The funny thing is you say that I say a whole lot of things that I can't find in the things I write. Maybe you could help me out and tell me were I said such things like: "Hitler was a murderer for having abortions" "You have no right to tell someone that their sin is worse than yours". I said that? "Should you judge someone as a murderer and hell-bound if they have an abortion?" Were did i do that? I thought the question was; Should abortion be banned. And help me with this one: "We are talking specifically about whether you should judge someone as a murderer and hell-bound if they have an abortion." Who is judging someone as a murderer and hell-bound if they have an abortion? Please show me were I said that. Just for the record; my view is that everyone of us, apart from the grace of Jesus Christ, is hell bound for the high crime of cosmic treason, aka idolatry. Romans 1:18-25 Romans 1:25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. If I remember correctly you responded to a post I made quoting Greg Koukl who i thought made a very good point regarding the question of this debate and you responded with, you can't use that, it's Christian. How very judgmental of you. Anyway, since your not to familiar with what scripture teaches. I'll help you out. And note the part were Jesus says you shall not murder. About right and wrong; notice that Jesus quoted the Ten Commandments here. That's an objective standard, not a subjective one as you suggest. And he says in the last passage that all men will be judged by this law. That means it applies to all men, at all times and in all places. that is the polar opposite of what you say. So one of you has got to be wrong. Matthew 19:17-19 17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 He said to Him, “Which ones?” Jesus said, “ ‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’” Matthew 5:20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.
72 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
infer (v)- to derive by reasoning; conclude or judge from premises or evidence ----- I have stated in my previous arguments that you should not judge someone as a murderer and hell-bound if they have an abortion, and you disputed my argument. Therefore, I can infer that you are against what I have said. ---- I can see now that we have been arguing two different questions. The question is not about whether abortions should be banned or not. I already answered that they should, with there being exceptions for special circumstances. One of those special circumstances I mentioned was rape, and you disputed me on that circumstance. That does not mean that I am against abortions being banned; I would like for that to happen. I think you got mixed up when I said that and inferred wrongly. ----- Practically all Christians are against abortions, because it goes against what the Bible says. I am against them too, however I do not believe it is right to judge someone in a negative manner if they do have an abortion. The same goes for gays as well concerning harassment. You shouldn't judge someone, period. When you judge someone, it eventually leads to hate, and God will not forgive you if you do not forgive you neighbor for what they have done. People make bad decisions every day. Their (people having abortions) sin should not be ridiculed upon or emphasized as one of the worst sins, because we also commit sin, and God looks at every sin the same way, except for the one I mentioned in my previous statement. You should tell them that what they are doing is sinful and pray for them, but I don't believe you should harass them and look down upon them for what they have done. ----- I am inferring that you are a Christian, although I may be wrong. Could you specify what religion you follow? I am a nondenominational evangelical. ----- I get what you are saying with Romans 1:18-25, but what you fail to realize is that although a person has an abortion, that does not mean that they cannot be forgiven of it and become Christians later on. The only sin in which you cannot be forgiven is blasphemy against the HS (Mark 3:29). You should not degrade them for what they have done, but encourage them to turn to God so that He can forgive them of their past wrongdoings. ----- How very judgmental of you. You took it out of context. Read the entire paragraph and you will see my response. I also put in in bold in response to your other statement. ----- Anyway, since your not to familiar with what scripture teaches. Wow, and you are calling me judgmental... ----- note the part were Jesus says you shall not murder. About right and wrong; notice that Jesus quoted the Ten Commandments here. Jesus condensed them into two commandments for Christians to follow. See Matthew 22:36-40. They revolve around love, not murder. ----- Hmmm...so let me see here. According to the verses you mentioned, you believe that you must follow the Ten Commandments in order to have eternal life? I want to make sure I understand your point of view, because I disagree with it if it is so. Romans 10:9,10 "If you confess with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord,' and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved." Ephesians 2:8,9: "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from youselves, it is the gift of God--not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do" I can't go on until I know which religion you follow, but it is clear from these two verses that if you are a Christian, you are saved by faith in God, not by obeying the Ten Commandments. Paul touches on this in his letters. I don't have the time right now to look them all up, but I will list them later on if you would like me to.
72 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
You are correct in your assessment of me. Doctrinally I consider myself a Reformed Baptist, but primarily a follower of the historical Jesus of Nazareth. I also think we agree for the most part, however I took exception with several things you said because I found them to be inconsistent with a Christian World-view. Primarily your statement that Christian morality applies solely to Christians. That is known as moral relativism (for a full discussion of this please see the book by Francis J. Beckwith and Greg Koukl titled: Relativism: Feet Firmly Planted in Mid-Air ) The scripture I quoted was to make the point that morality, according to Jesus, was objective. I was very explicit about that; to infer anything beyond that is to read into what I said something that is not there. I also took and take exception to your insistence that we are commanded not to judge. The only thing I can find is a command not to judge hypocritically and then a command to judge once we have dealt with our own sin. I do agree with your sentiment of judgmentalism and the holier than thou attitude I think your are trying to address. If we are saved by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone then we have nothing in which to boast. Even the faith I have is a gift from God Ephesians 2:8 I am by nature a murderer and hell bound sinner and deserving of the wrath of God, but I have received mercy and I 'm now commanded to go and show mercy as I have been shown mercy. But I ask how are we to fulfill the great commission if we first don't judge that people are murderers( see the sermon on the mount) and hell-bound? If there is no peril, there is no need of a savior and no need to warn people. And that means that Jesus died in vain. But Jesus made a judgment, people are murderers and hell-bound and it matters not how they got there, only that they need to be saved. And He asked me to go for Him and seek and save that which is lost. If I'm His follower than I'll do what he commands me. “If you love Me, keep My commandments" John 14:15 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen. Matthew 28:19-20
69 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
No, as a Christian, I believe the morality that God gave and still gives applies to everyone of every race, regardless of religion. There is no such thing as another religion, for they are committing idolatry. Either you interpreted my statement wrongly or I misspoke. I don't believe morals are relative to peoples of a certain religion or a certain culture. If I did, I wouldn't be a Christian because I would be contradicting myself and my beliefs. I think it is important that we go over the verses in question and see the meaning behind it. Matthew 7:1-5 "Stop judging others and you will not be judged. For others will treat you as you treat them. Whatever measure you use in judging others, it will be used to measure how you are judged. And why worry about a speck in your friend's eye when you have a log in your own? How can you think of saying, 'let me help you get rid of that speck in your eye,' when you can't see past the log in your own eye? Hypocrite! First get rid of the log from your own eye; then perhaps you will see well enough to deal with the speck in your friend's eye." My interpretation of these verses are that Jesus is warning you from judging someone else for their sin when you sin even worse, in other words being hypocritical. Now, as a Christian, it is your duty in Matthew 18:15-17 to kindly confront the person about what they have done, with the goal being to bring repentance in that person (James 5:20). You could also look at 2 Timothy 4:2, where it says that you should kindly correct, rebuke, and encourage with good teaching. You see what I am saying? You are not to judge someone, but to rather point out the truth to them so that James 5:20 can occur. To kindly come up to someone and tell them that what they are doing is wrong for the purpose of bringing them closer to Christ is not the same as pronouncing judgment upon someone. We are to judge the sin as murder, and always with the goal of helping the person see that Jesus is a solution for the consequences of sin. Now, if I go up to someone who commits an abortion and yell at them that they are going to hell for being a murderer, what does that solve? It doesn't solve anything. This is the kind of hypocritical judgment Jesus was talking about in Matthew 7. On the other hand, if you kindly go up to the person, show them where they made the mistake, tell them that they can be forgiven of it with the blood of Jesus Christ, and send them on their way, you plant the seed in them in which they can hopefully come to Jesus. Of course, it is up to them to decide, but by showing them the solution to the problem, you have a much greater chance of that person coming to grips with what they have done, and then turning to Jesus and becoming saved.
69 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
Palinin, Help me with something if you can. As I read back through this debate something odd jumped out at me. You dismiss and ignore every point I raise and then expect me to answer every point you raise; why is that? waiting for a response.
72 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
There is a difference between refuting and ignoring. I addressed every point you made and didn't keep bringing up topics that were irrelevant to the debate, such as Hitler. Abortion for Rape Victims? By Gregory Koukl You are assuming from a Christian article that everyone in the world must believe in Christianity, which can't happen because God gave man free will. So what Hitler did was good because he thought it was. What does Hitler have to do with abortions? To be a follower of Him means to hold the same worldview has he does. As I said earlier, one of two commandments to adhere to as a Christian (that Jesus said himself in the gospels) is to love your neighbor as yourself. We are all lawbreakers and apart from the grace of God We are all lawbreakers.
72 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
The Jewish Holocaust is considered a life issue. Life issues also include abortion and euthanasia.
10 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
HItler has everything to do with abortion! The only difference between the Jewish Holocaust and the Abortion Holocaust is that the abortion holocaust is longer and many more people have died!
10 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
nearly everyday of the week, the US government (your tax dollars) is killing innocent children in Iraq and that does NOT seem to be such an issue
75 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
Prev, show me how this has to deal directly with abortions being banned and I will answer it. I think you meant Afghanistan now anyways, we are pulling out of Iraq.
75 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
attn Palinin2040: the double standard used by many anti-abortionist/pro-lifers makes me kinda blah about the so-called abortion debate [just give 'em education and contraception and watch the number of abortions drop] they wail-n-moan about innocents murdered in the womb (something the government has nothing to do with in comparison to war) but turn a blind eye every time a bullet or bomb. that they paid for, kills murders an innocent Iraqi or Afghan child why even bother discussing the thousands of Vietnamese killed in "free fire zones" and during "carpet bombing" raids a young woman decides to "kill" her baby and the "lifers" don sack clothes and ashes. your government kills and the "lifers" rally behind the flag and cry patriotism thank goodness this rank hypocrisy is being well documented and will not be erased from history
75 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
To sum up your argument: Pro-lifers are hypocrites because they oppose the killing of babies from abortions while approving of the killing of babies during war. I understand your viewpoint, but I disagree with it. I don't approve of war at all, and I am pro-life for the most part. There are other people just like me as well, but you said many, so you are pretty much correct in your reasoning.
75 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
Well, once it is a child, it already is illegal to kill it. Before the first tri-mester it's a cluster of cells with no more self-awareness than a kitchen table. So that wouldn't be "killing a child" at all. And don't start with the potential bs. Because by that logic you would also have to outlaw masterbation, and save every ejaculation in a cup separating out the thousands of sperms representing "potential" life and finding female eggs to inject them in. ... 'course judging by your past arguement, I guess you'll try anyway.
72 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
Yes, you are absolutely right, it is illegal to kill a child, but just because it a simple "cluster of cells" in the early stages of pregnancy, does that give us any further right to destroy it? Not convinced? Perhaps this example will help my point: You are walking through a farm one day, and you stumble upon a chicken egg that has been freshly laid. You step on it, and guess what? You have commited murder! I instantly know the reply to that statement, after all, it's just an egg, so therefore there isn't any developed life growing inside... yet! It doesn't matter how far the stages of development have gone, because there is ultimately going to be a child, and forcing an early abortion is the prevention of life, and in my eyes, is nothing short of an abortion at say the six month stage of a human pregnancy. By the way, if I may add this, then I would say that your view on the "potential bs," and how we should "outlaw masterbation," is either incredibly misguided, or incredibly stupid. Need I remind you that there are several billion sperm cells in each male. So, how many sperm cells are produced during the process of masterbation? I certainly wouldn't think billions, millions, or even several thousands!
70 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
Oh jeez, I don't know where you and that J whatever guy came from, but your critical thinking skills are absolutely awful on this topic. My point about the thousands of potential lives every time a guy cums are accurate. There are thousands of sperm, each "potentially" able to make a life if it finds an egg. This is every time a guy cums. Look it up. There stored in you, if you don't jack it or screw they're dissolved in the body or come out in your sleep. But it's a sperm holocaust literally everyday within our bodies. And I used that example to show J whatever exactly how silly the "potential" life argument is. Potential life is not a legitimate excuse against abortion. Because, exactly... like... I... said... we destroy thousands of potential lives every single time we masturbate, or don't masturbate, or even when we do have sex. Now, reread this twice if you feel a need to reply, and consult a dictionary if you have to, I'm tired of having to over-explain the simplest things.
70 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
Every sperm is sacred, every sperm is graced; If a sperm is wasted, God gets quite irate. Let the heathens spill theirs on the dusty ground -- God shall make them pay for each sperm that can't be found. Every sperm is wanted; every sperm is good. Every sperm is needed in your neighborhood! Hindus, Taoists, Mormons, just spill theirs anywhere, But God loves those who treat their semen with more care. Every sperm is sacred! Every sperm is great! If a sperm is wasted, God gets quite irate! -- Monty Python
67 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
By the end of the 1st trimester a baby . . . has started to develop blood vessels, brain, spinal cord, nervous system, eyes, ears, arms, legs, mouth, nose, thyroid gland, tongue, color of retina, fingers, toes, joints, teeth, facial muscles, eyelids, fingerprints, fingernails, vocal chords, and taste buds the heart has begun to beat makes reflex movements, swallows, and practices 'breathing' every organ is present I want you to read that and tell me this is not a baby.
15 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
great, another one. I've read it. I've read it a million times on this lame debate alone. You're not saying anything new, there's no great revelation anywhere in your arguement. None of what you say in any way points toward any kind of self-awareness. Science says it's not a baby, and nothing you said will stop a single abortion from happening. So stop, find another cause. Abortions have been going on since the beginning of time and all this foaming-at-the-mouth zealous ignorance has never stopped a single one. Every time in history you zealous foaming-at-the-mouth looney tunes have gotten your way and made abortion illegal it has lead to nothing but a bunch of dead little girls from botched abortions, and still not a single abortion is ever stopped. If you don't want an abortion, you don't have to get one. But if some poor young girl thinks that's her best option, then that's her choice. If god or whoever doesn't like it, then he can come down here and tell her himself. Stay out of it.
15 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
Science says it's not a baby. I beg to differ. Science said it is a baby. The baby has its own DNA and at nine weeks he has a heartbeat. A baby at twelve weeks is very complex. Every organ is present. This link lists the development of a baby in the womb. PLEASE READ THIS!!!!!!!
Supporting Evidence:
Milestones of Early Life
(www.abortionfacts.com)
14 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
Why counter a wrong with a equally wrong action? The evil of abortion is equal to the evil of rape. Only 1% of all abortions are performed because of rape or incest. (Guttmacher Institute)
15 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
I find the fact that there are instances where women think that it is right to abort the birth of a child is incredibly outrageous! To think that people would rather cut of life in its entirety than to take wiser options, such as setting their child up for an adoption, or even personally entrusting the baby to someone close to them. If I could 'personally' define the word 'abortion,' then it would be as follows: 'ABORTION: The term refers to the irrational decision to KILL the child before it has been birthed from the womb' I am not going to sugar-coat abortions, because it's true, they are nothing short of murder! 'The children are killed before they can even process the thought' is one term that I have seen a few times in this debate (of course they have been worded differently, but again, I am not here to sugar-coat this sort of thing), and I can say that the mother/father has STOLEN the right and privilege of thought from these children by killing them. They have also denied them of love, care, protection and most of all, they have denied them of a life. As I have stated previously, I cannot even begin to understand why so many pregnant women do not consider putting the child up for an adoption rather than simply cutting the child off completely! Surely the majority of you all would agree with me that a child has its rights even if it cannot understand them! But the second that an abortion begins, you have stripped that child of it's rights, and there is no way that you can ever make amends. And no, I am not trying to send anyone on a guilt-trip, but I would be glad to know that some of you have come to realize what exactly an abortion does, and not just to think of the process as "stabbing someone in the vagina."
70 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
how is stabbing a pregnant dog, the same as abortion. it is completely different. we're not saying u can stab a pregnant person but we're saying that the pregnant person should have the option to abort. not that it is ok to go and stab any person that is pregnant.
68 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
Read what I was replying to. I was being facetious. Following the logic of the statement I was replying to, it would wrong to have an abortion ever under any circumstance, but something like say, stabbing a pregnant dog in the vagina, would be just fine... if one were to follow the logic, which it's become quite apparent few posting under this topic are capable of.
68 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
we're saying that the pregnant person should have the option to abort. Then why is your argument tagged "abortion should be banned"? Also funny to note is that (at this time) your post is the top post on this side!?
58 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
No answer to my retort, just a down vote. That helps alot!?
56 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
Yes, this type of stupid hypocracy must be banned! The parents have right to kill themselves but not their growing babies. Many countries face a crisis due to this. If the abortio is not a safe mode executed, then it can affect the parent's health too. Friends, How can you accept the death of an innocent infant who never harmed you?
54 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
“For You created my inmost being;You knit me together in my mother's womb. I praise You because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; Your works are wonderful, I know that full well. My frame was not hidden from You when I was made in a secret place. When I was woven together in the depths of the earth, Your eyes saw my unformed body. All the days ordained for me were written in Your book before one of them came to be.” Psalm 139:13-16. God created you, He created me, and He has created everybody. Life is a gift. Nobody has a right to take away that gift. Life starts at conception. Mother Teresa said "What is taking place in America is a war against the child … And if we accept that the mother can kill her own child, how can we tell other people not to kill one another." This war against the child is abortion. If I tell a pregnant woman she can kill her baby, why can't I tell a man that it is alright to murder a three year-old. What is the difference between killing a baby nine weeks after conception and murdering a child nine weeks after birth? During the Holocaust, approximately 11 million people were killed between 1933 till 1945. These people include Jews, homosexuals, Slavics (Russians, Poles, and others), Gypsies, mentally and physically disabled, Communists, Socialists, Jehovah's Witnesses, and Christians found helping the targeted people. That was fifty years ago and today Hitler and the Nazis are known as criminals and mass murderers. But why are the doctors who perform abortions not called criminals or mass murderers? From 1973 to 2005, over 46 million abortions have been performed. This is much higher death rate than from the Holocaust. For abortion the approximate death rate is 1.4 million babies each year. The approximate death rate for the Holocaust, however, is about 917 thousand people a year. The Nazis targeted the people they did because they believed they were inferior to themselves. Women who have abortions kill their babies because they believe that they are superior to these children. To this day, Germans have collective shame because of what the Nazis did, even though they did nothing to help. In fifty years will Americans have collective shame because so many abortions were performed? Will Americans be known as mass murderers and criminals? Dr. Richard Land, president of The Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission,said "We lose more babies through abortion every year than the total fatalities in all of the wars in which we have ever participated, commencing with the French and Indian War and including the Revolutionary War, the War of 1812, the Civil War, the Spanish-American War, World War I, World War II, Korea, Vietnam, Gulf War I, and Gulf War II.” In 2005 1.2 million abortions were performed. Even though this number is the lowest since 1974, this is still too many abortions. Every twenty seconds a child is aborted. Fifty-six percent of women who have abortions are in their twenties and sixty-one percent of women who have abortions have one or more children. According to Guttmacher Institute, the reasons women give for having an abortion underscore their understanding of the responsibilities of parenthood and family life. Three-fourths of women cite concern for or responsibility to other individuals; three-fourths say they cannot afford a child; three-fourths say that having a baby would interfere with work, school or the ability to care for dependents; and half say they do not want to be a single parent or are having problems with their husband or partner. Many pro-choice posters say “My Body. My Right.” Woman don't take into consideration that their decision to have an abortion affects not only their body, but the unborn babies. Jeremiah 1:5 says "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart.” The Lord knew you, even before conception! Women who have abortions are only thinking about themselves. What have they forgotten? Have not considered that this baby is a living person? Three weeks after conception a baby has a heartbeat and at four and a half months she can experience pain. By nine weeks, he has begun to develop blood vessels, eyes, lungs, ears, arms, legs, mouth, nose, the color of his eyes, fingers, toes, brain, joints, teeth, spinal cord, nervous system, and facial muscles. He can also hiccup frown, squint, turn his head, touch his face, breath (without air), stretch, and yawn. He is well proportioned, about the size of a thumb, and every organ is present. Exodus 21: 22-25 says “If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman's husband demands and the court allows. But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.” But instead of condemning women who have made this choice, we should come to them with compassion, offering them help. After a woman has an abortion, her initial response in most cases is a feeling of relief. Then, with repression and denial, she avoids the problem, usually for years —5 years is common, 10 or 20 not unusual. Guilt, regret, remorse, shame, lowered self-esteem, dreams and nightmares, flash-backs, anniversary reactions, hostility toward men, crying, despair, and even suicide attempts are symptoms of Post-Abortion Syndrome. Many women turn to drugs and alcohol as a way of masking the pain. Anniversary reactions are an increase in symptoms around the time of the anniversary of the abortion, the due date of the aborted child, or both. We should also inform women who are considering abortion about the procedure and effects of abortion and other options such as adoption. Crisis Pregnancy Centers can be found in most metropolitan areas. Many Crisis Pregnancy Centers in Illinois metropolitan areas offer pregnancy tests, ultrasound services, adoption plans, parenting education, clothing rooms, and post-abortion help. According to Hope Pregnancy Ministries ninety percent of abortion-minded women choose life after seeing their ultrasound. Luke 1:42-44 says “In a loud voice Elizabeth exclaimed: "Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the child you will bear! But why am I so favored, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? As soon as the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby in my womb leaped for joy.” When Mary enters Elizabeth's house, John, an unborn baby, leaps for joy because he is in the presence of the Christ, another unborn baby. Dr. James I. Lamb, executive director of Lutherans For Life, said “Both Mary and Elizabeth experienced an ‘unplanned’ pregnancy. Both their babies were still in their wombs. Both trusted God in seemingly impossible situations." That the Christ would become a baby shows just how sacred life is.
15 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
In 95% of cases it is the woman's fault for becoming pregnant, especially in teen cases.
15 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
Abortion is stupid. All thes chicks that have abortions are stupid.
15 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
Abortion is dumb, all the woman who have any are STUPID!!!! Abortion could ruin the race of mankind!! Then we would all be dead!!!!!!!!! AAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!!! I do NOT like the idea of abortion and obama is stupid to give federal funds to abortion!!!!
14 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
This is not an argument but supporting evidence of why abortion should be banned. This woman knows first hand what abortion is and what it does. If you are going to argue for abortion you will need to overcome this woman's testimony. But I bet most people will just attack her character falsely.
Supporting Evidence:
Life begins again
(www.worldmag.com)
2 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
Yes it should be banned. People shouldn't be having sex if they don't wanna a baby. Or it should be protected. Killing babies is a crime.
2 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
Abortion: One Key Issue By Gregory Koukl Abortion involves killing and discarding something that's alive. Whether it's right or not to take the life of any living being depends entirely upon the answer to one question: What kind of being is it? The answer one gives is pivotal, the deciding element that trumps all other considerations. Let me put the issue plainly. If the unborn is not a human person, no justification for abortion is necessary. However, if the unborn is a human person, no justification for abortion is adequate. ©1999 Gregory Koukl. Reproduction permitted for non-commercial use only. For more information, contact Stand to Reason at 1438 East 33rd St., Signal Hill, CA 90755 (800) 2-REASON (562) 595-7333 www.str.org
Many abortion doctors admit that this baby is a living human being. Many baptize the babies after the abortion is finished.
14 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
Well, the question is what makes us a person, and what makes us special above those beings which are okay to kill (most animals, insects plants etc...). I would argue that it's our ability to think and feel at a higher level. An embryo cannot think, feel, see, hear, remember, or do any of the other things that distinguish us as people and therefore must be put into a separate category then a fully formed person. Considering your ignorance on the topic of biology that you demonstrated in the evolution debate, I would not be surprised if you were unaware of this, but if you don't believe me I would be happy to provide evidence (or you could save me the trouble and trust me). The question then becomes: at what point does the unborn embryo/fetus gain the rights of a full grown person? There are two extremes: 1) The moment after conception. 2) The moment of birth. My problem with number one is that a single celled organism shouldn't have rights that are equal to those of a person, and my problem with number two is that mere physical location (outside rather than inside the womb) shouldn't dictate whether we have rights, so I propose that the embryo/fetus gains rights over time as it develops. How early these rights are given is obviously something that is going to be debated, and, in my own opinion, should be debated because it will be a much more fruitful debate than the current "all or nothing" one that is all too common.
72 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
The question isn't about person hood, The question is what kind of life is it? By your logic it is OK to kill another human, especially if they are smaller and less developed than you , if they can't think, feel, see, hear, or remember than by all means, kill em. What you have just done is discriminated against a whole class of humans that are inferior to you and deemed them unworthy of life by your arbitrary standard. That sounds just like the logic of the Third Reich to me. And that's exactly how they categorized it; the life unworthy of life. But let me ask you; were you ever an unborn child? If you ever were the unborn child your mother carried, then you have to accept an undeniable truth: killing that child through abortion would have killed you. Not a potential you. Not a possible you. Not a future you. Abortion would have killed you. Aren't you glad your mother didn't view you in the same crass way you view other humans in the early stages of development. You are in essence arguing for a right that could have taken that very right from you. And just for the record, most abortions are performed at about 10 weeks. I've included a link so you can see what those embryos look like at 10 weeks. And please tell me what that is if it isn't human. Also in regards the fetus's (it's a fetus at 10 weeks) ability to think, feel, see, hear and remember watch the video "Silent Scream" to get a sense of just what it is you are arguing for. What you'll see is a fetus (just like you once were) recoil in fear has they fight for their life. But I do warn you, the footage is extremely graphic.
Supporting Evidence:
Silent Scream
(www.baby2see.com)
69 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
If it can't think, feel, see, hear, or remember; can't survive without complete and total dependence on the biology of another being; and doesn't look particularly like people -- what exactly is it that makes this a "human"?
68 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
Well first off it's pretty obvious what makes it human, genetics. About thinking, feeling,seeing and hearing go watch the video"Silent Scream" and tell me what that baby is doing.
67 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
I've seen "Silent Scream" four times already; I was convent-schooled and thus unsurprisingly I've been shown lots of graphically disgusting abortion pictures. And y'know what? I'm still not remotely persuaded that it is preferable to ruin women's lives or leave them to die in back alleys. DNA? Your sperm has DNA. Your hair and skin cells have DNA. Your saliva has DNA. Are sperm, hair, skin, and spit also human beings in their own rights? About "thinking, feeling, seeing and hearing" -- you conceded that an fetus slated for abortion is not capable of doing these things in your post above. "By your logic . . . if they can't think, feel, see, hear, or remember than by all means, kill em." So this new argument that "Silent Scream" contradicts your earlier premise that the fetus does NOT "think, feel, see, or hear" is simply logically inconsistent.
67 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
Ok, so it's better to kill 1500 children a day than a handful of women periodically DNA proves humanity, that's all Um whoops, you took that out of context. Go back and read what I said. Notice how that quote starts. by your logic it doesn't say by my logic
64 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
But you posited the "can't think, see, feel, etc." You supplied that and you endorsed it by posting it. Notice how you did that. Can't get out by saying that your characterization was part of a criticism - it was still your characterization. A clump of cells in utero is not a "child." That's why medical science has words like "zygote" and "blastula" and "embryo" and "fetus." If you are asking for my personal opinion on abortion, which you seem to be, it is that abortion is a highly imperfect solution to a very real problem; but that until we have developed and agreed as a society to disseminate a completely 100% effective, safe, and pragmatic method of birth control complete with age-appropriate sex education AND eliminated rape and abuse or coercion of children, then the societal costs of limiting abortion access much further than it already is (and it IS limited; states can regulate it after the first trimester and can ban it completely once the fetus reaches viability, and can also determine which procedures will and will not be permitted) are simply too great. Rather than banning it, we need to be working towards making abortion pretty much unneccesary. This is much harder to do than simply banning it, but does have the advantage of actually solving the problems posed both by allowing and by prohibiting abortion rather than just ignoring them.
64 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
I don’t care to debate nor discuss your convoluted justifications for destroying a human fetus or embryo. My question to you: Why did your mother not destroy you while you were nothing but a cellular glob? Answer: Because your mother, and probably your father, loved you more than they loved themselves!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hypocrite! You are ready to justify the killing of human fetuses, while at the same time ignorant of the fact that ‘your’ bullshit argument is possible by reason of your mother’s refusal to kill you while your were nothing but a cellular glob! A female like you who is willing to justify the most cowardice of crimes against her own would-be progeny will commit any manner of crime against her own offspring. So, I think you should make certain that no cellular glob that is human in nature should ever be allowed to grow within your womb, for any child that is born of your matrix will most likely be sacrificed for your own selfish benefit. This is no argument!! Why, because, you have confessed to the innocence of killing your own would-be progeny. Down-vote all of my arguments! It still will not change the fact of your willingness to advocate not only the killing of all human fetuses (yes, all human fetuses), but the killing of your own would-be children. Go ahead! Justify yourself, for your response is nothing more than a self-justification via the state agreeing with you that should kill your un-born progeny. Oh, I can say much more about females such as you. Please, provoke me! BTW, how many children have you given birth to?
65 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
"I don’t care to debate" Then STFU!!! What the hell are you even doing on a site titled "create debate" then? ...............................................................
65 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
I don’t care to debate nor discuss your convoluted justifications for destroying a human fetus or embryo. Don't abstract a fragment of a statement for your propaganda. Pick and choose what you want in order to justify yourself? Do you work for FoxNews?
63 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
What the hell are you even doing on a site titled "create debate" then? Correcting criminals like yourself that think a debate justifies your criminal intention! Silly criminal, debates are for just persons with just intentions, not criminals with crime in the seared conscience! STFU? Create Debate is not a forum for justifying the unjustifiable. Create Debate is a debating format for rational thought. Killing an un-born fetus cannot be rationalized! So, why do you stretch the intention of debate? I know! You are justifying your intent! Justifying the undebatable with debate! You are still a criminal!
65 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
Typical. You didn't come for a debate, you came for a fight. Debates are for people interested in listening to both sides and expecting to get out of it with a better understanding of the world. You came to "correct" people, not to understand other points of view. The undebatable? There's no such thing. Every issue is debatable. It's true that some have stronger arguments on one side than the other, but this shouldn't bother the rational person you claim to be.
65 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
I’m not defending myself nor my viewpoint, I am boldly declaring the implications of the pro-abortionist. You must understand that if I am truly anti-abortionist, I will not waste time dancing and playing with individuals who promote the killing of human fetuses. I did not come for a fight as you have claimed, what I came for was an intellectual abortion of anti-fetus rhetoric. The undebatable? There's no such thing. Every issue is debatable. (Self-refuting argument) I am not God, the creator of the heavens and Earth. Would you care to debate or find someone to debate that proposition? Again, No man is a woman. Again, No horse is a dog. Again, No debate is a fetus. Again, 1 is not 4 Again, 1 and 1 is not 7 Again, 2 and 10 is 2 less than 14 Again, Man is fallible.
63 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
As I said, some debates have much stronger arguments to one side. 1 is not 4. I agree. If both numbers refer to the same kind of thing, 1 is not 4. 1 banana is not 4 bananas. One could argue that, if it's not specified, 1 could be 4... For example, 1 family might have exactly 4 people in it. In this case, 1 (family) is 4 (people). But if the numbers are just shown without "units", it's usually implied that they are probably referring to the same thing. Therefore, 1 is not 4. If you have your arguments in order, every issue is debatable. It's just that some are closer to a consensus than others...
62 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
If both numbers refer to the same kind of thing, 1 is not 4. 1 banana is not 4 bananas. One could argue that, if it's not specified, 1 could be 4... For example, 1 family might have exactly 4 people in it. In this case, 1 (family) is 4 (people). But if the numbers are just shown without "units", it's usually implied that they are probably referring to the same thing. Therefore, 1 is not 4. 1 is not 4 is a proposition. The proposition is not an accounting statement. It is a proposition that asserts that 1 and 4 are not predicable of each other. In fact if that proposition is debatable then the law of mathematics is without a foundation. Your arguments fail to debate the proposition, 1 is not 4 , but yet argues distinctly different propositions.
59 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
I think that referring to mathematical rules as "laws" is the kind of misleading argument religious people like to use when implying that when using mathematics you require faith. Mathematics are not the ultimate truth about anything, neither should they be treated as unchangeable laws of the universe. Mathematics, as well as physics, chemistry, etc. are a set of tools invented by humans in order to explain phenomena we observe around us. We made sciences up, and it's up to us to upgrade them in order to improve our knowledge about the world. Here I didn't go as far as to point a flaw in mathematics or something that should be changed, I actually agreed that in most cases 1 is not 4, and I know how useful that is in our daily life. My point is, we can and should question and debate everything, even the foundations of something which has been working for us all along, because we can never know when old explanations might fail us. This is specially valid for the question of abortion, since our old conceptions about when life begins might be wrong. Anyways, if my semantic discussion of 1 not being 4 was not mathematical enough for you, here I got another one... "1 is not 4" Wrong, this is not always the case. When dealing with binary numbers, when 1 is in the third number from the right, as in 100, 1 represents 4. In 111, 100, 10100, and so on, the third 1 is always 4 (as in the decimal system).
59 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
I think you are misunderstanding what a logical proposition is. True, we can pretend to debate everything by use of fallacious thoughts, but when an argument is illogical nothing is debated. However, in a sense we can irrationally argue everything! Agreed! You have claimed that “all issues are debatable” while at the same time failing to support your proposition. The fallacious arguments you have submitted fail to refute my proposition and consequently indicate that only my proposition, i.e. not all issues are debatable, is axiomatic. There is not one axiom you have affirmed that is evidence of your assertion, “All issues are debatable”. The only logical and axiomatic proposition of this debate is simply: Some issues are debatable.
58 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
So going back to abortion... you say that an illogical argument is not-debatable. So could you explain what is illogical about debating abortion? Clearly, just by being here you dispute your own statement. It seems to me that you are just going around the issue without proving that killing a non-fully developed fetus is the same thing as killing a 3 year old child. Prove your statement without evading the debate and calling it "illogical". - Or else prove why it is illogical to debate this.
58 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
The principle of pro-abortion: Human fetuses and embryos are sacrificial. Welcome to a self-evident truth. 1. The pro-abortionists could dispute the words of the principle, but in doing such the pro-abortionist must necessarily contradict the pro-abortionist view. 2. The anti-abortionist has no reason to debate the principle because the truth of the principle is self evident. Don’t make the mistake of thinking that anti-abortionists will sacrifice their un-born offspring. And furthermore, you will not be mistaken if you think pro-abortionists will sacrifice their un-born progeny for themselves. Now, let’s see if you and I can logically debate the principle I have affirmed of pro-abortionists. Seriously, let’s attempt a debate amongst one another as a test of my ability to reason. Good luck!
57 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
the truth of the principle is self evident.? You mean that, in your opinion, the principle is false, right? First, logically explain me why do you think this is absolutely false, as in, there's absolutely no situation in which this could be true, no matter which other factors are involved. Also, I'd like to say that I'm not sure about my opinion on abortion... I do think that interrupting a pregnancy is not good, but I cannot simply ignore the problems an undesired child might bring to its family and society. At this point in my life, I wouldn't consider abortion, but I don't feel like I can make this decision for other people, so I wouldn't like it to be "banned". This matter puzzles me, so I don't usually join debates related to it. I just came into this one because I saw your comment about criminals and the undebatable, so now I'm here just looking forward to seeing you logically prove that there's absolutely no situation in which sacrificing a human embryo is the less of two evils. I'm looking forward to a debate.
the truth of the principle is self evident.? You mean that, in your opinion, the principle is false, right? First, logically explain me why do you think this is absolutely false, as in, there's absolutely no situation in which this could be true, no matter which other factors are involved. No, the principle of pro-abortion is: “Human fetuses and embryos are sacrificial.” The principle is true to fact; it is not false to fact. My assertion is indicating the ethical standard of pro-abortionists. I am not saying that their principle is good or just, I am affirming the principle of their agenda. Now, consider the principle of the anti-abortionist: Human fetuses and embryos are not sacrificial. Does this help? Also, I'd like to say that I'm not sure about my opinion on abortion... I do think that interrupting a pregnancy is not good, but I cannot simply ignore the problems an undesired child might bring to its family and society. At this point in my life, I wouldn't consider abortion, but I don't feel like I can make this decision for other people, so I wouldn't like it to be "banned". This matter puzzles me, so I don't usually join debates related to it. I just came into this one because I saw your comment about criminals and the undebatable, so now I'm here just looking forward to seeing you logically prove that there's absolutely no situation in which sacrificing a human embryo is the less of two evils. I'm looking forward to a debate. I’ll reply to this part after we clearly understand one another about the truth of the principle of pro-abortion. This is a fair approach.
56 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
Criminal? LOL, I was invited to intern with the prosecutor's office. And FYI, falsely alleging in print that someone is a criminal is called "libel" -- or if you want to be technical, "the tort of civil libel," meaning that I now have a cause of action to sue you if I like. (Ain't screenshots grand?) Congrats -- you just crossed the line between what is merely rude and childish, and what is actually forbidden by law! Please, by all means, go on making an ass of yourself. It's funny and it totally discredits your position so in effect I win twice . . . :D lolololololol
65 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
#1 Our mutual anonymity precludes the possibility of personal injury by defamation. No person’s identity has been defamed and hence you have no case! #2 I find it quite humorous that you must associate yourself with some legal professional as though that would somehow imply your competence concerning legal concepts. Please, by all means, go on making an ass of yourself. It's funny and it totally discredits your position so in effect I win twice . . . You may think that you have won something, but at what cost? Lastly, if I make (as you claim) an ass of myself it certainly was not for myself; for I am a man of substance and not image, and the substance I represent justifies every mother-to-be who has chosen to keep her baby. You, on the other hand, are nothing but image, and hence your image is the result of winning or losing a debate about terminating the lives of unborn fetuses. Great Image no doubt!
63 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
Partial-birth abortion. That is all I have to say and I get the chills. This abortion is usually performed in the third trimester. The baby is forced into the birth canal legs first and everything except the head is delivered. The doctor then stabs the head while it is still in the canal and sucks out the brains. I will say some very important facts: At nine weeks a baby has a heartbeat. At 4.5 months he can feel pain. This baby, this human being can feel the stab of the knife. He can feel himself dying.
By the end of the 1st trimester a baby can think, see, hear, remember, and many other things. What is the difference between killing a baby nine weeks after conception and murdering baby nine weeks after birth? Tell me! I want to know. An abortion doctor failed to abort a baby and he was born alive. So the doctor took the baby and killed him. The doctor was not charged with murder but was charged with the failure to abort the baby.
14 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
Whether it's right or not to take the life of any living being depends entirely upon the answer to one question: What kind of being is it? The answer one gives is pivotal, the deciding element that trumps all other considerations. Depends entirely ? Heavily for sure but I am not buying entirely.
71 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
... So I can find a pregnant dog and stab it in the vagina?
72 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
Abortion should be legal. The government should never have the right to make decisions pertaining to one's own body and/or a decision to bring a child into the world or not. It takes the moral responsibility to do what is right away from the individual and this would cause us to become more and more conditioned to behave in whatever ways the establishment chooses to mold us. It would contradict the very core of what it means to be free. If we make abortion illegal, shouldn't we also make adoption? In case you don't know, the business of adoption is in the billions per year. Making abortion illegal would bolster this industry even further, and allow desperate people to become "baby merchants", for profit. An example would be a girlfriend of mine who needed money and decided to sell her eggs. What moral ground does that hold? Not to mention the financial burden more children would put on the American people in light of high inflation and low wages, health care costs, education etc. Forcing you to keep a child could very well sink many families into poverty. To me, the person undertaking an abortion has enough to deal with that they don't need my opinion on their moral character on top of it. They don't need my judgement because they're the ones having to live with that decision. And of course legal abortion would come with regulations to protect it from abuse. I think there's a lot that can be done to provide people the freedom of choice without allowing them to abuse that freedom, just like many other things in this country. If we make abortion illegal, adoption agencies might start to look like dog pounds. I think we need to believe that the majority of people in this country, and around the world, are good people seeking nothing more than the best chance at living a healthy and happy life. We are not all predisposed to moral corruption, poor decision making and ignorance. If we want to prosper as a nation we have to believe in our fellow man and that he will do what's right, however, that faith will not come without regulations to protect the system from those of us that would abuse it.
61 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
|
There are thousands of people who want to take these children because they cannot have their own. If you do not want a child, have it and put it up for adoption. At least you will be preserving a human life rather than killing one.
60 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
The debate is not about whether or not abortion is sometimes the best course of action, but whether or not a government agency has the right to make laws mandating that a pregnant woman carry a child to term. There are various good reasons for terminating a pregnancy. There are even more reasons a woman may choose to abort that are not good. Is it the business of the state to intervene and evaluate the reasoning process that the woman and her doctor apply when making these tough decisions? I don't think so. Allowing government entities to have the final irrevocable say in such situations sets a precedent that puts the government in a too high of a position relative to our fundamental liberties. What can we do short of legislation to significantly reduce the number of abortions performed when there are better options? People like me who abhor abortion need to focus on putting the alternatives front and center.
71 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
You say; There are various good reasons for terminating a pregnancy. I'd like to hear one. But to answer your question about the role of government in these affairs please consider the following: "We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America." Taking the life of another person is an injustice, destroys domestic tranquility, destroys general welfare and robs the individual of the blessings of liberty, If government has no authority to protect an individuals unalienable rights what good is it? This is how our Founding Fathers saw it: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness" Please note the use of the word "all" The decision handed down in Roe vs Wade stripped a whole class of people their rights by denying their humanity. This ruling goes against the very Constitution itself; It is a disgrace. As I said earlier it turns the law on it's head, the very law it is supposed to uphold. It appears this court has become destructive of the purpose for which it was founded and according to the Deceleration of Independence it is our duty to do something about.
70 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
There are various good reasons for terminating a pregnancy. I'd like to hear one. In some cases an abortion may be life saving to the pregnant woman. I don't think that a woman who chooses abortion to save her own life is committing an immoral act. Taking the life of another person is an injustice In general I agree that is true, but you yourself admit that sometimes it is justifiable to take a life DO YOU NOT? If government has no authority to protect an individuals unalienable rights what good is it? I never said that "government has no authority to protect an individuals unalienable rights". Whatever just authority it does have is derived from the consent of the governed. How far do we let government go "protecting" us. There are a million more laws I'm sure that can be shoved down our throats in the name of protection. Our right to privacy applies at some point, and I think health care decisions made in a doctor's office merit that privacy from government intrusion.
69 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
That scenario of the endangered mother is rare. The vast majority of abortions are performed on healthy women and children. You don't make laws based on exceptions to the norm. The right to life is the most fundamental right, everything else stands or falls on this one issue. When we as a people deny that right to a whole class of people we have undercut ourselves. In regards the taking of life; I agree with you, but not when it comes to abortion. And just to be clear, an unjustified action is unjust. I'm convinced that an abortion is unjustified for the reasons commonly given. In regards how far: I think the Constitution makes that clear, but Roe vs Wade undercuts that very Constitution. This isn't a debate about some theoretically fetus somewhere. This is about the 1500 lives that are snuffed out daily in our land and it's about you and I because it affects you and I. Don't think laws like this can stand without serious ramifications. Just consider that 1/3 of our population has been exterminated since Roe vs Wade. Do you think that has an affect on Social Security now that there are more people drawing from it than paying into it. What of the effects on health care? How many doctors and scientist were exterminated
69 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
You don't make laws based on exceptions to the norm. maybe not based on, but exceptions to the norm should at times bear heavily during the legislative process. The right to life is the most fundamental right, everything else stands or falls on this one issue. So the argument is... that since the right to privacy from government intrusion is not as of high a priority as the right to life, the government therefore ought to have full access to any medical health records related to pregnant women so they can follow up and make sure abortions are not performed by state licensed doctors? If a teen girl was found pregnant she could be arrested for underage sex and could carry to term while incarcerated........ready to be made into a movie...jeez I think that in a very real sense, the right to "reproductive privacy" precedes the "right to life". I would love to read a response to this particular point. In regards the taking of life; I agree with you, but not when it comes to abortion. Yes I understand you are a firm proponent of the death penalty....isn't it true?...oh right I remember the logic "You don't make laws based on exceptions to the norm" You don't have to convince me that high abortion rates represent the deepest poverty. I need to be convinced that government intervention (invasion to the privacy thereof) in doctor/pregnant woman relations is merited. Remember I think that the right to life depends on reproductive privacy.
69 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
Let me address the point you are making here: that since the right to privacy from government intrusion is not as of high a priority as the right to life, the government therefore ought to have full access to any medical health records related to pregnant women so they can follow up and make sure abortions are not performed by state licensed doctors? If I'm torturing little babies in my basement are you saying that I have a right to privacy from government intrusion? And if I'm a doctor I have more of a right to do what I want? Don't you think this goes against one of the reasons for licensing doctors, public safety? Again I say; If a government has not right to protect life, what good is it. On the issue of the death penalty. The principal in play for me on this issue and abortion is the same; the sanctity of human life.
47 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
If I'm torturing little babies in my basement are you saying that I have a right to privacy from government intrusion? It is true that laws enacted to protect privacy rights also provide opportunity for secret wrongdoing. Jstantall, you agree that abortions are sometimes medically necessary correct me if I am wrong. You think that a doctor/pregnant woman relationship should not be private but court monitored to make sure doctors don't commit murder. Again correct me if I am wrong.
44 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
Very little of all abortions are performed because of the baby threatening the mother's life. Even less abortions are performed because the pregnancy is the result of rape or incest. Most reasons are not enough money for a baby; partner/family does not want me to keep the baby.
15 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
Taking the life of another person . . . is not what happens in an abortion, because a fetus is not a "person." Roe didn't strip any class of "people" of rights, because a fetus is not a person. Nothing about the abortion right is unconstitutional, because (get ready for it): a fetus is not a person. Never in the history of U.S. law has a fetus been a "person," and a fetus is not a "person" under the law of the EU either. Are you getting the part where you went wrong yet?
68 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
The question is not about person-hood, but humanity and that is genetically verifiable. Answer the question, what kind of being is it? Everything else is superfluous. And just so you know what side you stand on; your argument is similar to those who supported slavery, they are not full persons and therefore have no rights under the law. So let me qoute you using the word slavery in place of fetus and maybe you can see where you went wrong Nothing about the right to slavery is unconstitutional, because (get ready for it): a slave is not a person. Never in the history of U.S. law has a slave been a "person," and a slave is not a "person" under the law of Britain either. A slave is property and therefore one can do with it as one sees fit.
67 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
Your argument fails in that a human who has been born, whether freed or enslaved, is a life in being -- i.e., someone who is an autonomous life fully developed to the point of not being physiologically dependent on another being for basic bodily functions. We recognize that autonomous, born human beings share certain basic rights. These rights do not extend to clumps of cells which are wholly dependent on another living being for their existence. Therefore your analogy does not actually equate at all.
67 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
A clump of cells is not what is aborted, do your research first. But let's say they are for the sake of the argument; what kind of cells are they? chicken? no they are human. On the issue of dependency: you are wholly dependent on other living beings for your existence. By your logic it would be OK to kill you if the issue of dependency was all that was needed to justify your death. And further more we could extend this to the mentally and physically handicapped. It could apply to the sick and suffering, people with cancer and all those in hospitals. The logic you use is exactly the logic the Third Reich used when it began doing these very things; long before it got to exterminating 6 million Jews. You may agree with the Third Reich that there is such thing as a life unworthy of life, but I don't. A child conceived is worthy of life and should have every opportunity to live it.
60 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
Your argument is specious. The sick and handicapped are not at issue. People with cancer are not at issue. None of them have hooked themselves up to the bodies of autonomous adults whose physiological functions are then used to regulate their own. And of course, the first one to make an overblown comparison between the issue at hand and Nazism is inevitably the loser in any given debate.
60 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
I'm questioning the underlying principle in play here and there is a connection between all the examples I gave. if you can't see the underlying principle here I don't know what to tell you. The argument looks like this: X is not worthy of life because of Y, therefore we're justified in killing it. Now just put Jews, slaves, embryos or what ever in place of "X" and put your reason in place of "Y" and you've got your argument. Can you see the analogy between them now? So my principal objection is with the "Y" when you have an embryo for "X"
47 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
Jews, slaves, etc. are all beings in their own right, not dependent on the womb of another. So no, your argument does not hold up.
47 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
Notice what you have done; You've imposed an arbitrary standard (dependent on the womb of another) and then said it is OK to kill any human being who doesn't meet this standard. That standard can be slid anywhere up or down, from conception to old age. It's what is know as moral relativism and it's a morally bankrupt ethic. The question is not; at what point can we kill it, but what is it? You need to first establish that this standard of yours is morally justified because I'm not persuaded that it is.
32 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
Old age? How's that work? No "human being" is going to be dependent on the womb of another for more than about 10 months. Once it's out of the womb, it is by definition no longer dependent on said womb for survival. The standard is flexible, not arbitrary. It is flexible to a certain defined degree (as it should be) and that degree should, to my thinking, correspond to the level of prenatal physiological development. In other words, rights vest as the being grows and matures.
24 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
All of us were once a fetus. That is a child. Obviously, none of you chose to watch the posted video, silent screams? Or how about the facts about a 10 week fetus. The whole argument is whether it is a person or not. Just because the law says it not, does not make that right. We are challenging the law. This is also our constitutional right.
58 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
All of us were once a fetus. Agree. That is a child. Disagree: unsupported leap in logic. The organism passes through varied stages of development between "fertilized egg" and "child." Obviously, none of you chose to watch the posted video Incorrect assertion. Watched it, multiple times, not in favor of outlawing abortion. We are challenging the law. This is also our constitutional right. Yup, that's your right, but since SCOTUS has already rejected "it's a person it's a child" not just once but many times, continuing to just assert "it's a person it's a child" while citing to a video from 25 years ago is probably not a very strong argument with which to challenge the law.
58 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
I'd like add a different perspective to your argument. I've changed one key word, tell me if it changes anything. The debate is not about whether or not slavery is sometimes the best course of action, but whether or not a government agency has the right to make laws mandating that a man may not have a slave. There are various good reasons for having slaves. There are even more reasons a man may choose to have a slave that are not good. Is it the business of the state to intervene and evaluate the reasoning process that the buyer and seller apply when making these tough decisions? I don't think so. Allowing government entities to have the final irrevocable say in such situations sets a precedent that puts the government in a too high of a position relative to our fundamental liberties. What can we do short of legislation to significantly reduce the number of slaves traded when there are better options? People like me who abhor slavery need to focus on putting the alternatives front and center. Hope that clears things up for you.
47 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
I agree 100%. This is a cultural issue and not a political one.
61 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
In the third trimester it is actually safer to have a c-section than it is to have in an abortion. At nine weeks a baby has a heartbeat. At 4.5 months he can feel pain. There is no good reason to have an abortion!!!
15 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
i agree 100 percent with you. the government shouldnt force someone to not have an abortion.
19hrs 18mins ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
This is stupid. The simple fact of all of this is let people decide what they want to do with teir bodies, I am so sick of republicans saying "no more government" then they have these "rules" which make more decisions for us. Total hypocrisy. You have a right to choose is my stance on everything.
14 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
I wrote this speech...read it and it will answer your questions. Abortion: Choose Life-it begins at Conception: Think about this. A girl had an abortion, thinking that the baby wasn’t living so it wouldn’t matter. But, after she had the abortion, she saw what she thought wasn’t living, and it actually was. The baby was living and she watched it die. From then on, she couldn’t even live with herself knowing that she killed a living human being. This story that I just told you is true. A lot of women think that it isn’t a baby before they have the abortion, and I will explain to you that abortion is the killing of a living baby. Well, if life doesn’t begin at birth, then when does it begin? Life begins at conception. This is a fact, because there is a lot of proof that can back that fact up. For example, there is scientific proof and there is Biblical proof. To further explain what abortion is, I will talk about these important things: one, it is spiritually right that life begins at conception, two, how scientifically there is proof that life begins at conception, Three, what we can do about the abortions, and finally, why girls get abortions. Those are all the things that should be thought about, so I will be explaining them, to help you understand them. Some woman have abortions because of these three things: one, They might think that they’re too young to have a baby, two, their boyfriend or spouse makes them have an abortion, three, if they do have the abortion the girl’s parents would get mad at her. The case also might be that she just doesn’t want to deal with the baby. First, you probably ought to know what abortion is. Abortion is killing the baby inside you when you are pregnant. Every year 1.5 million babies are killed by abortion. That’s 125,000 babies killed a month, making it 4,000 babies killed each day, or one baby killed every 20 seconds, that is so amazingly awful. That is basically one murder happening every 20 seconds. How brutal. The fact that life begins at conception is spiritually right. As it says in the Bible; Jeremiah 1:5 says, “Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you, before you were born I set you apart.” The Bible says that life begins at conception, meaning that right at conception the baby becomes a living human being. There are many Bible verses that back up the fact that life begins at conception, like the one I just said. That Bible verse, Jeremiah 1:5 is saying that God intended a unique human being, starting at conception. Just because you can’t see or feel the baby inside of you, doesn’t mean it’s not a baby, and alive and a human being, just like you. That is what a lot of people do not think about, even though you really should. There also is scientific proof. Some people may think that life begins at birth, or some people even later, but that is wrong, life begins at conception. Because of the fact that the baby forms gradually after conception, then conception is the only real point where you can say that the baby is a living human being. For example, the heart beat starts gradually, over a period of time so conception is the only exact starting point of life. Also, DNA defines a separate human being, and so when does a person form their own DNA? A person gets their own DNA at conception. That is a whole lot of proof, so it is just like saying it is a crime to kill a 1 year old, so why isn’t it a crime to kill a baby when he or she is still in the mother’s womb? That is a question that probably will go unanswered forever, or they will just say that the baby is not living, which is a complete lie. Now, what can we do about abortion? There many things that we can do about abortion. If you start supporting this pro-life movement then it will keep growing so much then no one will have an abortion. Hopefully then the abortion clinics will shut down, and the law will have to change. But, most importantly you can change the hearts of the people who support abortion, and save the innocent little babies. Now, how can we stop abortion? There are many ways to help stop abortion. Another way is you can donate money to a place like The Pregnancy Resource Center and they will use it to buy an ultrasound machine and to then show the women their babies to try to convince them not to have an abortion. You can also write to the president or another government representative, and tell them about all this proof that I have told you, hoping that their hearts will change and then the law. In conclusion to all of this, it is spiritually right that life begins at conception, and scientifically there is proof that life begins at conception. There are many ways that you can help stop abortion, so I hope that you take a while and do that. There are a lot of things wrong with having an abortion, so you really should not have one. Just remember that God loves the person getting the abortion AND the beautiful, innocent little babies. Thank you and I hope that you have realized that life begins at conception, you should help the pro-life movement, and that having an abortion is wrong. WORDS: 981
14 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
Um, that doesnt prove anything except what it actually is. When a woman becomes pregnant she starts going through a hormonal change to adjust for this really huge thing that is about to happen to her life. It is natures way of preparing a woman for motherhood. When the baby is lost, through abortion, miscarriage, or accident, all women go back to normal hormones in a quick fashion and it causes depression. If you think that a woman feeling guilty about the abortion isnt misplaced emotion then let me tell you a general story that I am sure relates to every woman on the planet. When you get all emotional and upset because your bf or husband does not put the dishes in the right place or some other lame ass reason for getting upset, do you really think that that is really the issue? Is it really not your period or your mom not listening to you? Yes it is. So misunderstanding your emotions and where they stem from is how you define "woman".
13 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
This is a speech that i found: On behalf of the Salt & Light team, I would like to speak to you about a subject that is near and dear to our hearts. Today is National Sanctity of Human Life day. Perhaps you have noticed the pro-life sign in front of our church. If not, I invite you to look at it after the service this morning. Thirty years ago, the United States Supreme Court made up a constitutional right to abortion in Roe v. Wade. Since then there have been 44 million abortions. There have been 112 million births. Using those two numbers, one can calculate that 28 percent of all pregnancies have ended in abortion. Everyday the number of babies killed by abortionists approximately equals the 3,000 killed by terrorists on September 11, 2001. Now I believe that I do not have to convince anyone here in this church about the evilness and tragedy of abortion. But, if anyone remains unconvinced, go over to our nursery, pick up a little baby, hold it in your arms and gaze into its eyes and you will know the truth. All the pro-choice pro-abortion rhetoric will just melt away. The real question to be asked is why, in this predominately-Christian nation, do we tolerate this practice? I have spent three years trying to answer that question. I must tell you that I am totally amazed. There really should be no debate at all about abortion. The truth should be clear to everyone. It should be a slam-dunk that abortion should not be tolerated. It should not be legalized. And it should not be a choice. After studying this issue, I now understand how Adolf Hitler was able to pull off the holocaust. It took a tremendous amount of propaganda, lies, and deceit. The Nazis were able to morally confuse many people. It took many good Christians in Germany closing their eyes and remaining silent. Well the same thing is true today in the United States of America. There are a relatively few passionate activists who loudly spread pro-choice pro-abortion propaganda, lies, and deceit. They are able to morally confuse many people in our country. It is a sad truth that most Christians in all denominations have closed their eyes and have remained silent. The abortion struggle has corrupted our politics. Legalized abortion is so entrenched in our government because one of our two major political parties has embraced it. To even be considered a viable candidate in that party one must blindly accept the doctrine of legalized abortion. This has made it difficult for the Christians who are traditionally members of that party. Every election cycle, pro-choice candidates try to give Christians reasons to vote for them on other issues. And so, too many Christians forget about abortion as they go vote. They often provide the margin of victory for pro-choice pro-abortion candidates. If a miracle were to happen and those Christians were to hold a little baby in their arms and gaze into his or her eyes just before stepping into the voting booth, our system of abortion would disappear after the very next election. In conclusion, the most important thing I have learned during these last three years is that the future of abortion is totally in the hands of Christians. We really do have the political power to solve this problem. Our cultural enemies know this and they are scared. They desperately work to demonize and marginalize us. We do not have to convince the sinful pro-choice activists that they are wrong about abortion. We do not have to convince the radical feminists, the biased news media, or the morally corrupt politicians. To win, all we have to do is convince our fellow Christians to truly follow Christ and there is no doubt that they will vote pro-life.
14 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
If I was raped, lets say by...my father, and i got pregnant at the age of 14, it would not be mentally healthy for me to go through with my pregnancy! It would wreak havoc on my own psyche and screw my child over from the abnormal hormone fluctuations [stress is bad for the baby in utero]. If the pregnancy would be damaging in any way to the mother, because it really is her choice, I believe abortion is appropriate. I AM NOT SAYING IT SHOULD BE USED AS BIRTH CONTROL. If you have more than one abortion because of your own stupid mistakes, then yes, you most definitely carry the baby to term and put it up for adoption. But if the pregnancy is going to be damaging, get the abortion as soon as possible.
13 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
No abortion should not be banned, it is the peoples choice if they wish to have a child not be forced to have it, especially if they are young. Shame on the people who say it should be banned. How would you like to be forced to do something??
11 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
i think it depends on the circumstances. if you were raped, and then got pregnant, would you still keep the child. Certainly it shouldn't be a form of birth control, but in some cases it should be allowed. besides if your argument is that we would be taking a life then wouldn't we have to stop anything that takes a life such as war, the death penalty, and meat production?
4 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
this is a tiresome argument. as long as people (women) are getting pregnant and people (women and men) don't wanna have that pregnancy, then we will have abortions regardless of laws, so-called morals, etc. the answer is adequate 1) health/sex information and 2) improved availability to contraception since historically (stupid) efforts to control sex have failed
76 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
this is a tiresome argument. as long as people are buying slaves and people (women and men) wanna sale that slave, then we will have slavery regardless of laws, so-called morals, etc. the answer is adequate 1) slavery information and 2) improved availability of slavery since historically (stupid) efforts to slavery have failed Hope that clears up the mental smog for you :)
67 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
There needs to be improved sex ed in society. How does that solve this issue? Just because people will try to do something outside the law, does not mean the government should just make it legal.
58 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
isn't it true that around 50% of all pregnancy's are not planned isn't it true that the USA has one of the highest teen pregnancy rates isn't is true that higher abortion rates are directly linked to the non-availability of contraception so why do we have abstinence-only policy's that are proven not to work
76 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
You can't get pregnant or contract an STD if your not having sex outside of marriage. We set high standards for our children's education and hold them to it. Why not set high standards for them sexually also, since nothing curtails an education like a pregnancy. Abstinence is the only practice that provides 100% protection against STDs and pregnancy, nothing else comes close. There is only one question when it comes to abortion, what is it? If it is a human being then it requires a very high level of justification to take it's life. I have simply seen no argument that comes close to proper justification for the taking the life of an innocent human being. The only arguments I have seen are those that try to take away the embryo's humanity and make it less than human.
76 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
attn Jstantall: "If it is a human being then it requires a very high level of justification to take it's life. I have simply seen no argument that comes close to proper justification for the taking the life of an innocent human being." are you concerned about only the innocent unborn embryo or all innocent life?
76 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
Yes, all innocent life. But that depends on how you define innocent life.
76 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
it is simple - innocent simply means free of blame, not guilty, not in the wrong, etc.
76 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
Yes, all innocent life. So -- vegetarian, then? .........................................................
68 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
You can't get pregnant or contract an STD if your not having sex outside of marriage. Well, that's totally goofy and wrong. Married women get pregnant all the time. (Oh and here's a total shocker: not all married women want to get pregnant.) And of course if your spouse has an STD and you have sex with your spouse, you can catch it. Nor does abstinence "provide 100% protection against STDs and pregnancy," since rape and child molestation do happen. And finally, there are a great many "questions when it comes to abortion" -- including the safety and wellbeing of the woman, the privacy of family decisions, the right to bodily autonomy, the state's interest in the life and health of its citizens, the relative value that should be placed on the life of the developing being, and the stage of development at which such value should attach or be assessed -- just to name a few off the cuff.
68 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
Actually, you can contract an STD not having sex outside of marriage. Or, to avoid the double negative, having sex strictly with your spouse. It takes TWO people to make sex. So, you not having sex outside of marriage doesn't necessitate that he/she will as well. It would require both parties abstain to attain the "high sexual standards" you propose setting. What are our current sexual standards by comparison? As far as abortion goes, there are clearly differing opinions on when life begins. As such, let doctors inform the law on when defining characteristics appear, and let women make the choice on moral judgement.
76 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
If you and your spouse have no STDs and you have sex with no one else how could you possible get an STD apart from a mishap at the doctors? The only safe sex is that in a monogamous marriage. there is no question to when life begins: it's life throughout. The question is what kind of life? So, if I make the choice to kill my neighbor using my own moral judgment; it's ok?
76 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
If you and your spouse have no STDs and you have sex with no one else how could you possible get an STD apart from a mishap at the doctors? 1. kissing your mom during a herpes outbreak, then making oral with your spouse. 2. a bar fight 3. eating an infected chimp you didn't cook long enough with an open soar in your mouth 4. forgetting to cover a public toilet seat after someone with an outbreak on their thighs forgot to put the cover on a public toilet seat Probably many more. But that's not the point. The point is people have been having sex with or without protection for hundreds of thousands of years, and they're not about to stop now no matter how hard you stuff your fingers in your ears and how loud you yell "LALALALALALA" with your eyes closed while stomping your feat and praying. keep trying though
70 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
My point is you're forced to rely on your spouse having been a virgin prior to marriage as well. And you'll really only ever be 100% sure of your own sexual history. So really the only safe sex is to take a vow of abstinence. For life. There is certainly question to when life begins. You say it's life throughout. What marks the beginning stage then? The question is not what kind of life. What does that even mean? And of course it's not ok to kill your neighbor. Nice try. Your neighbor is a fully grown person, and does not live inside of you for 9 months. Considering that a fetus lives inside you (and if brought to term must be raised by you for 18 years), you have a little more say over it's existence. And, to paraphrase Obama, pregnant women tend to make the best choices on whether or not they are stable enough to raise children. I agree that we should have better access to contraception. We can certainly both agree that we should minimize numbers of abortions as possible. And access to contraception would certainly cut down on abortions. Sexual education about contraception is also key. Abstinence only does not work.
75 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
Abstinence prior to marriage (both parties) and fidelity within marriage is the safest sexual practice period. That's the ideal anything less than that is a degradation. On the beginning of life; According to the text book definition of life both the egg and sperm are alive. At the point of conception you have a complete DNA and a different one from both parents. That's an accepted scientific fact that is not in question. The question is what kind of life? cat, dog or a chicken? Nope, humans produce humans. About killing your neighbor; So long as he is not fully grown I can kill him? So, if it's the neighbors kid who I have been raising for the past nine months since his parents abandoned him; it's OK to kill him if I determine that I'm no longer stable enough to raise him? and even more so if I raised him for the last 18yrs? Yeah right. Try that in a court of law. Why do you think we should reduce the number of abortions? Is it because you know in your heart of heart that it takes the life of a human being in the early stages of development? We are drowning in a sea of condoms and sex ed and it has increased the rate of abortion, not decreased it. Abstinence has not been tried and found wanting, but found hard and left untried. Come on let's set high standards for ourselves and our kids, not low ones.
75 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
It is a degradation to you, perhaps. Others believe differently. Why should we legislate based on your moral beliefs? Let's face it, unmarried people have impulses, desires, etc. They are going to act on it. Wouldn't you rather they have the tools to prevent pregnancy than not have them? Perhaps I should have been more specific in my example. A baby grows inside of you. So technically, it is a part of you. A part of your body. You are not obliged to see it to term if you choose not to. This is why a ban on abortion would fail. We should reduce the number of abortions because it's a very heartbreaking decision for a woman to come to. No woman comes to it lightly. When someone decides to end the life inside her, it is because she knows that it is a better choice than condemning the chiild to a lifetime of unhappiness. Some come to it because they know they cannot overcome an addiction and thus cannot bring a healthy child to term. Others because they know they cannot financially support the child. Others because they live in abusive homes that they don't want to subject a child to. Whatever the reason, it's certainly not an easy choice to make. So providing resources for these women such as education and contraception, can make a world of difference. As for your last argument, what substantiates your claim? From the University of California study on abstinence only and comprehensive sex education: Behavior research cannot make judgments about social values, but it can evaluate the success of school-based curricula at producing tangible outcomes for young people. The weight of the evidence from peer-reviewed scientific journals clearly shows that some comprehensive sex education programs can reduce behavior that puts young people at risk of HIV, STIs and unintended pregnancy, and that these programs do not promote earlier onset of sexual activity or an increased number of sexual partners among adolescents. By contrast, little if any credible research exists to substantiate the claims that abstinence-only programming leads to positive behavior change among youth. The credible research sends a clear message to policy makers: if the goal of school-based sex education is to increase positive health outcomes for youth, comprehensive (or “abstinence- plus”) sex education is the proven effective choice. Abstinence-only programming runs the serious risk of leaving young people, especially those at elevated risk, uninformed and alienated.
75 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
It's a degradation when it deviates from the purpose for which it was designed. A law should be based on what is right, not personal preference. I would prefer adults control their desires in order that society might function at its best. What if my desire wasn't sexual, let's say I have a strong desire to shoot people who make me mad. Should I act on it? You will say that hurts people and sex doesn't. Really, check out Ted Bundy's story sometime or the thousands of others like it. Consider child pornography, rape etc etc. Or maybe the sexual abuse of women doesn't bother you. Sex outside of it's proper context is always, in every situation, damaging and hurtful to both parties. And if you disagree you are numb to it's effect. However, if you don't have sex you don't get pregnant. And you can't transmit sexually transmitted diseases without sexual contact. It's that simple. About that baby, it's not a part of you. It has it's own unique DNA. It's not yours, so it's not you. It is a unique and separate human being that you happen to be hosting. That is the undisputed consensus. about reducing the numbers of abortions: So if I make a heartbreaking decision after a heavy consideration to start killing all homeless people because they are sad, addicted, get beat up and we as a society can't support them anymore. It's OK because it was a hard decision? Yeah right, try that defense in a court of law. None of those reasons you give come close to proper justification for the taking of human life. A pregnancy is not the kids fault, but it is the parents responsibility. And kids should never get the death penalty because their parents don't want to take responsibility for them. The right thing to do is give them to someone who will. Have you ever had any success with something that you decided from the start that it would never work. Trouble is there are more voices telling kids to have sex than not. Suppose it was the other way around, what do you think would happen to all these problems? Go away? No, but they might return to the levels they were at prior to the sexual revolution. Abstinence only worked well in this country for awhile to curb these problems. And perfection is never a requirement for law. it's meant to reduce the numbers. Slow our stampede into social anarchy if you will.
75 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
Ah, now we get to the core of your argument. Sex is a deviation if it's not for the purpose of child-making? So basically, sex is not for pleasure, only for babies? Gay sex is wrong, then? Or sex between infertile married couples? Laws should be based on protecting other people, not on morality. Just like drugs, gambling, and prostitution ought to be legal, so long as those activities do not hurt others. Your statement that "sex outside of it's proper context is always, in every situation, damaging and hurtful to both parties" is laughable. Many people enjoy sex before marriage and find it to be an enriching part of their relationships. Just because you don't doesn't mean they are wrong. What effect am I numb to? Orgasm? Hardly. "It is a uniue and separate human being that you happen to be hosting"--like a parasite? So you should be able to choose whether or not to play host for 9 months. Stop trying to relate my examples to murder. You and I both know the distinct differences between killing a group of cells that live within you and that you are ultimately responsible for and killing an independent person. You claim that adoption is the "only ethical choice" for parents who are unable to care for their children, but this distinctly ignores two of the possible reasons I gave for abortion. 1-Addicts cannot bring a healthy child to term, 2-Abused women cannot hide a pregnancy and then give a child up for adoption. It also assumes that there would be enough of a "market" for adopted children if abortion were suddenly banned. Rates of children being given up would sky rocket, but would rates of parents wanting to adopt also rise? Prohibition never works. Prohibition on alcohol didn't work. Prohibition on marijuana is not working. Prohibition on sex before marriage cannot and will not work. Prohibition fails. Period. Nobody is "telling kids to have sex". We're providing sexual education so that if they make that choice, they will be informed on how to be healthy and responsible. I can't believe you'd rather have them NOT be informed, on the logic that if they DON'T know how to have responsible sex that they'll simply choose not to have it. Did you bother reading the study I linked to? I'll reiterate the key points of their findings. 1-Comprehensive sex education DOES reduce rates of pregnancy and STD's, 2-Comprehensive sex education DOES NOT increase rates of teenage sexual activity, 3-Abstinence only education DOES NOT reduce rates of teenage sexual activity. So, basically, the findings were that people are going to have sex, and try as you might, we can't dictate YOUR morality to them. Tricky thing about morals, they're all relative. If people are going to have sex, and IF abstinence only education has been proven to be ineffective at reducing rates of sex or pregnancy or STD's, then why would we continue to stick to it? To appease your moral beliefs? Again, laws are not, contrary to your belief, about morals. They are about people. And so long as sex is consensual, nobody needs protecting from it. Except perhaps you, since you so obviously find offense in the act of love. I suggest this. Teach YOUR children your moral beliefs regarding sex. But for the sake of society, let's teach all children (including yours) what it means to be responsible with regards to sex. Just in case they fall off the high bar you've set for them. Wouldn't you rather they fall without HIV? Or an unwanted pregnancy?
75 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
Sex is a deviation if it's not for the purpose of child-making? I never said it's sole purpose was procreation. The core question is one of anthropology; does man have a nature and is that nature fixed? You would apparently say no and that man gets to define that nature. Laws should be based on ethics, not morality. However if mans nature is not fixed there can't be law or morality. Because there is no way man ought to be and no norm from which to deviate from. Everything becomes a matter of personal preference and taste. Everyone does what is right in their own eyes. That is anarchy and society crumbles. Second paragraph: Never said there was no pleasure in it; just that their was a cost that is hidden from your eyes. I could never get you to drink poison if I was upfront about the effects. But if I kept that information from you and packaged it good enough; it wouldn't be hard Case in point; homosexuality. harmless? The average life expectancy for a gay male is 45yrs almost half of heterosexual males. There really needs to be more truth in advertising for the sexual revolution. It has brought freedom to no one; only bondage. Third paragraph: We get back to the real question don't we? What is it ? If it's not human than no justification is necessary. If it is human than no justification is sufficient. About the choice, you made it when you decided to have sex. That troublesome problem of procreation again. Fourth paragraph; there is that question again; what is it? just a group of cells or a human being in the early stages of life. If it's human, it's murder. hence the parallel. Fifth paragraph: The examples you give represent a very, very small percentage of abortions. The vast majority of abortions are preformed on healthy women and children. About adoption; me and my spouse are an infertile couple, we looked into adoption and guess what? there are long waiting list for domestic adoption simply because there are more couples than children due to the fact that over 1500 abortions are performed daily in this country. that's why most couples adopt from overseas. Sixth paragraph. If perfection is your standard then yes prohibition doesn't work. Prohibition does work, that's what every law is, a prohibition. It's sounds like you are arguing again for anarchy. To that I say; truth in advertising please. Nobody is "telling kids to have sex" Really, you just substantiated my previous claim to being numb. Sex is used to sell everything these days. Just go through the supermarket check-out and peruse the latest magazine covers. If you don't know what this does to the male mind and the way it victimizes women you are numb. About the choice and sex ed. I'd rather we told the kids the true cost of premarital sex. instead of lie to them. Oh yeah little Johny you can play with fire, just follow these simple steps and you'll be just fine and hey here is some firecrackers to make it more fun. Now let me show you how to make a really cool fire using gasoline. Come on! Let's help kids choose what is best for them, and it's not broken hearts, STDs, single motherhood and the whole list of other stuff that goes along with it. About the parallel with fire, in case you didn't know, passion burns. A fire not contained can destroy a whole forest. Don't believe me. Watch the interview Dr. Dobson did with Ted Bundy the night before his execution. I'll quote it for you from memory because it's burned in there: Dr Dobson: Ted, you once were an innocent little boy. How did you get here? Ted Bundy: Pornography. I was exposed to it as little boy and it became a passion that was never satisfied. The more I got the more wanted till I was killing women to get it. Just ask any man here who is here on sexual charges and he'll tell you the same thing. About the study; I don't dispute it. Of course it's failing that's my point. It's only logical that it would if you have a million people shouting, have sex and one small voice whispering, abstain. I doubt you did your homework and looked at the numbers for teen pregnancy and STDs before and after the sexual revolution. Abstinence is fail proof. You may fail to abstain but if you are abstaining you will never get pregnant. However contraception is not so. You can also fail to use it but if you use it, it can fail and you will get pregnant. It's that simple. Final thought; if morals are relative as you claim, why are you trying to push yours on me and why should I follow yours and not mine. Is it because you think there is an objective standard that people ought to follow and a way things ought to be. But that's just your personal preference isn't. If you really believed that morality was subjective you would go sit under a tree and talk to no one, but you don't. You try and persuade people that your view is the correct one, but why I ask?
74 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
So what then, is the "the purpose for which it was designed" if not procreation? Pleasure?! Say it's not so! I would say man has a nature and that it is fixed. And it is for this reason that I strongly believe in not banning abortions and I strongly believe that abstinence only education should be replaced by comprehensive sexual education. Because part of that fixed nature of man is that each of us has impulses and desires of a sexual nature. (And those impulses and desires are not wrong.) Acting upon them is not a matter of ethics or morality. I've never understood how sexual activity came under the morality umbrella to begin with. So long as it is consensual, there's no justification. We don't analyze other types of activity for their moral fiber. Do we talk about the morality of football? The morality of swimming? The morality of sleeping? Laws, as I stated earlier, should be based on the good of society, namely not causing harm to other people, while protecting each person's individual rights to do all things that do not cause harm to others. Ethics are not fixed, else we would all have identical ethical standards. How do you account for the differences if there is to be but one ideal? LoL at the sexual revolution bringing bondage. How is safe sex prior to marriage harmful to both parties, though? If you're responsible, no transmission of STD's, no unwanted pregnancies, what is the damage you speak of? As for the life expectancy of a gay man, consider this: homosexuals are 26 times more likely to die from suicide and 87 times more likely to die from murder than heterosexuals. Which says a lot about more about tolerance than it does about lifestyle. Nonetheless, your argument is moot anyway, because homosexuals do not choose to be homosexual. That's not a lifestyle choice, so it cannot be right or wrong. Would you say when you make a choice to walk barefoot you are also making the choice to host a ringworm inside of you? It's something that could be a consequence of that choice, but it's not a choice you've made. It's an effect. Similarly, impregnation is an effect of sex. Not a choice in and of itself. The choice ought to come prior to impregnation, when one can choose to prevent it through contraception. But sometimes it comes after. Nonetheless, it's up to the individual to make that choice. The examples I gave represent the reasons abortion ought to be accessible. I agree that it should not be used as birth control. I agree that we ought to reduce the number. I believe comprehensive sexual education with access to contraception is the best way to achieve that. You seem to think that just telling them not to do it and crossing our fingers is best. It's just...jaded. There are about 150,000 children up for adoption per year. I'm not sure how many adoptive couples. My point is, would adoptive couples be able to keep demand up for that many unwanted children were we to abolish abortion today? Again, let me specify. When I say "prohibition doesn't work" I mean prohibition of things that people recognize to be false laws. These would be laws regarding our bodies. Laws that tell us how we can use them (sex) and what we can put in them (drugs) do not work. People recognize the invalidity of these laws because they understand their bodies are ultimately theirs to do with what they please. Just go through the supermarket check-out and peruse the latest magazine covers. If you don't know what this does to the male mind and the way it victimizes women you are numb. Holy cow you've got to be joking! Victimizes women?! Let me start a new debate for this alone. Please visit it at http://www.createdebate.com/debate/show/ Do_magazines_victimize_women I'm all for teaching kids what's best for them. And what's best for them are the tools to make the best decisions for themselves. And those decisions, like it or not, are ultimately up to them to make. It's naiive to believe that all it will take is a strong voice repetitively shouting the abstinence mantra in order to keep people from having premarital sex. Abstinence is fail proof. You may fail to abstain but if you are abstaining you will never get pregnant. However contraception is not so. You can also fail to use it but if you use it, it can fail and you will get pregnant. It's that simple. And this is a fine way to teach sexual education. I'm not against an abstinent-leaning program, but one that does not promote healthy sexual habits at all is dangerous. We've got to take into account those who will fail to abstain. Not doing so is heartless. As far as the Ted Bundy bit goes, I really see no bearing here. That's specifically regarding pornography, which I'd be glad to debate the merits of in another debate. Final thought: Morals are relative, which is all I'm trying to push on you. My only "push" is that you not push legislation on others based solely on your moral beliefs.
74 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
No reply!? Instead I get a downvote? On a full-page essay on the topic? That's kind of, how do you say, ah-yes, bullshit. But alas...such are the ways of CreateDebate I suppose.
74 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
Well we've covered a lot of ground. Let me see if I can tie it all together for you; knowing that there is a difference between proof and persuasion. What do abortion, premarital sex, homosexuality, pornography(including soft porn, the kind found in supermarket checkout lanes) and Ted Bundy all have in common? What is the one unifying thread that ties them all together? They all devalue human life by reducing it to something less than what it is. You agree that man has a nature and it is fixed. Therefore there is a way in which mankind ought to function. A deviation from that norm is therefore dehumanizing. Let me explain. Abortion; Renders the human a non-human and therefore it can be disposed of when an individual doesn't want it. Premarital sex: views other people as objects to be used for ones own personal pleasure and then discarded when no longer wanted. Homosexuality: An expression of self love. Using another person to express ones love of self and then discarding that person when they no longer please you. Pornography: The portrayal of people as objects of sexual fulfillment. People are viewed as objects to be used for personal pleasure and then discarded when you are done with them. Soft porn: does the same as pornography but in a more subtle form; very deceiving since it appears harmless. Ted Bundy; Became convinced through pornography that people were something that you used to bring pleasure to yourself and then disposed of . Do you see the pattern. reduce the person to an object to be used, use the person and then discard them. At the core of everyone of these is love of self. Use other people to get what I want and when I'm done with them I move on. Does the idea of using people like objects bother you at all? It does me. That's why I oppose all these things. Final thoughts: football does have morality as do all sports, it's called the rules of the game. There's a way you play that makes it football and a way that makes it no longer football. Pragmatism is is a poor method for law since it has no way of telling what the good is. Also do a word study on the etymology of the word ethic and tell me what you come up with. Because I may be mistaken but I thought ethics (ethos) were fixed standards and morality (mores)were changing standards. Giving ones self over to passion is to be ruled by passion and no longer reason; that's bondage to be controlled by your emotions and not your mind. If homosexuals don't choose to be that way, why then can so many walk away from that lifestyle and never go back. Their high suicide rate is because of people like you who tell them they can't change when they really want to. That leads to depression and eventually suicide. That's not a very loving thing to do. On moral relativism; if that's true then it's just your personal preference and why should I like what you do. About legislation: what else do you base law on other than what you believe to be right. But why is it OK to base them on your morals and not mine? I think the state should remain neutral on sex ed. After all it is the parents responsibility, not the states. Because when the state does it, they are pushing their morality on others who don't agree with it and using my money to do it. And that is wrong. About Abortion legislation, which this debate is all about. The state has already ruled on this issue, murder is illegal and should be. Roe vs Wade simply stripped a whole class of people protection under that law and denied them rights we all enjoy. So again the question on abortion is; what is it? If it's not human, no justification is necessary. If it is human than no justification is adequate. So I say, it ain't a chicken. Humans produce humans. Therefore no reason you gave for abortion is adequate. Also I like the idea of your debate; I'll be sure to weigh in on it when I get a chance.
74 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
Abortion: Gives a mother a choice in carrying a life form for 9 months and then raising it for the rest of her life. Renders the human a non-human and therefore it can be disposed of when an individual doesn't want it. It cannot be disposed of when an individual doesn't want it. Only within a set time frame during which it has not become a person. Premarital sex: Sex that occurs before marriage. views other people as objects to be used for ones own personal pleasure and then discarded when no longer wanted. Generally I think of premarital sex as occurring within a relationship. If you're talking about casual, random sex, then your argument may hold some weight. But in the context of a relationship, there is a lot more at stake than personal pleasure via sex. Homosexuality: Sexual desire for those of the same sex. An expression of self love. Using another person to express ones love of self and then discarding that person when they no longer please you. Wait....whaT? Where exactly are you getting this? Pornography: Sexual media that satisfies urges of those who cannot get laid as often as they'd like. The portrayal of people as objects of sexual fulfillment. People are viewed as objects to be used for personal pleasure and then discarded when you are done with them. Hustler is viewed as an object for personal pleasure to be discarded. Not the people themselves. Soft porn: Sexy people doing sexy things Ted Bundy: Serial killer Became convinced through pornography that people were something that you used to bring pleasure to yourself and then disposed of . Turned to violent sexuality (more often detective books portraying sexual violence than pornography) after an inability to relate to humanity. I'm skipping around on your other arguments because I'm not in the mood for an essay, so bear with me. Find me the "so many" homosexuals who can walk away from the lifestyle and never go back and I'll find you a group of people who have lied to themselves to make society happy. Laws should be based on the good of society, not on your morals. About sex ed, you're naive if you think we can leave it to the hands of the parents. You may be a responsible parent who plans to teach your children about sex, but many are not. We owe a responsibility to every child to give them the tools necessary to make the right choices when the time comes. Whether that's abstention or contraception, only they can make that choice. Alas, I think I'm a little spent on this topic. I've had this in my argument activity for weeks but I've been reluctant to write back because it's gone all over the place. If you want to debate any of the non-abortion arguments we've been discussing, let's create a new debate, because this long argument full of fifty mini-arguments is just confusing.
41 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
The central theme running through your response is sex; all these issues revolve around that central theme. The question seems to be one of teleology; what is it for, how should we use it and how do we deal with it's consequences. As we, as a culture, remove the boundaries of sexual conduct and blur the distinctions it begins to have serious consequences we don't immediately recognize. The logical out working of the sexual revolution may be missed by those who advocate for it, but it is not missed by the youth. They are looking to us as adults to clue them in on how the world works and we are sending them a clear message about sex. While we sit here and debate these issues and argue that it doesn't hurt anyone and kid ourselves into thinking we are liberating ourselves; we find our children living in fear and bondage to sexual harassment at school. Girls are primarily the target and their grades suffer because of it. The sexual revolution has liberated no one; it has only dragged thousands into bondage and slowly ate away at a once great nation. You need to really think hard about the ramifications of what you are arguing for. Because you may not see the cost but that doesn't mean there isn't one. If we as a nation are to avoid going the way of the Roman Empire we need to restore the boundaries of sexual conduct. Our streets are flooded with sexual perversion because we have removed all limitations to sexual expression. The last limitation that remains is "age of consent" and that is being vigorously attacked. The only safe place of expression for sex is within the context of a life long heterosexual marriage. But we have told the youth otherwise; so are we surprised by the way they conduct themselves in school among classmates of the opposite sex. We don't need to be telling kids to use a condom if they want to sexually express themselves. We should be telling them that sexual expression is only appropriate within the context of a life long heterosexual marriage. Are we so foolish as a people to think that this is the first time in history a people has moved in this direction? They indeed have and the results are always devastating. Why should we think they will be any different for us. "Those who don't know history are destined to repeat it."-Edmund Burke (1729-1797)
Ok, the central theme thing is completely unfair, considering you were the one who originally argued about porn, Ted Bundy, premarital sex, and the like. I merely countered your argument. So in reality your central theme seems to be sex. I won't disagree with your argument entirely. There are certainly a number of drawbacks to the sexual revolution. Namely in terms of the feminist revolution. We've taken a number of steps backwards in some inane desire to please men. The "playboy effect" is a very negative behavior that has resulted from the sexual revolution. This does not mean that the sexual revolution was all bad or that sex outside of marriage is bad. It's quite a jump to say that sex is only ok in a lifelong heterosexual marriage except for religious reasons. From a religious context, sure, it makes perfect sense, but outside of that it does not. For one, "lifelong" partnerships sometimes don't last a lifetime. For another, people are biologically programmed to sexual desires. Sex is a very fulfilling part of a serious, committed relationship, and I stand by my statement that there is nothing wrong with that. Furthermore, you entirely ignored my desire to quit debating non-abortion related issues within this debate. If you'd like to debate some other topic, let's start a new debate. (please and thank you)
29 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
OK I agree about a new debate; any ideas? I do think I need to clarify something however and then I'll leave it at that. Sex with in the context of a lifelong heterosexual marriage is the ideal and proper function of sex. Any form of sexuality outside of that is dysfunctional and causes problems. As with anything when it is not used properly. I raised the issues of porn, Ted Bundy, premarital sex, and the like as case studies of this principle. All of these are sexual expression outside of the proper context of sex and all of them cause problems; hence why I would classify them as dysfunctions. What does all this have to do with the abortion question? The fact that there is such a thing as this debate about abortion proves there is a problem. No problem, no debate. So here is the problem as I see it. Married couples don't have abortions. So who does then? those expressing themselves sexually outside the context of marriage. If this causes a problem (abortion) than we must say something is dysfunctional or unhealthy. We can't say it is the sexual act because that alone doesn't always cause problems. It has to be the context in which it occurs. Because sexual expression in one way is without problems and in another it causes problems. Or to put it another way; one is a healthy expression and the other is unhealthy. So to sum it all up; You will know whether something is healthy or dysfunctional by the fruit it produces. All the examples I gave including abortion are symptomatic (the fruit) of an underlying problem; sex outside it's proper context. But this does highlight a problem we in our culture suffer from. We have forgotten the principle of sowing and reaping. When you plant a tree you don't immediately get fruit, it takes time. So if we do something and don't immediately see bad results that doesn't mean there won't be any. It may take years before are actions bear fruit. So I hope you can see that I'm still debating the same issue. I'm going after the cause and not the symptom however. I also have been careful not to argue from religious reasons, although my convictions inform my reasons. So I would agree with you that people are biologically programmed to sexual desires and that sex is a very fulfilling part of a serious, committed relationship. But I would say, judging by the fruit, that there is a healthy and unhealthy expression of that sexuality. Maybe we could debate whether or not sex outside of marriage is unhealthy by looking at the fruit it produces.
28 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
you're not arguing that abstinence doesn't provides 100% protection are you?
76 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
it is 100% but that is just the first step how does one implement abstinence upon any society how would you do it in America would yah say "just say 'no' "
76 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
You lead by setting a higher standard. That's what leaders do; take people were the don't want to go. It takes no leadership on my part to get the family to go to Disneyland. It does how ever to get them to save through out the year so at Christmas time they have something to give to those less fortunate.
75 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
Actually, depending on what is allowed in "abstinence", it may not. Oral sex, for instance, can transmit STD's, and many abstinent teens turn to oral sex as a way to satisfy their sexual desires. I'm arguing that sexual desires are natural. It's easy to succumb to those desires and so abstinence-only education is weak. It ignores the fact that some people will CHOOSE not to remain abstinent. And that these people deserve facts on having safe sex. And furthermore, that if we made contraception more widely available to those who choose not to be abstinent, we can drastically cut down on the numbers of abortions.
75 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
Abstinence means to abstain. You can't get pregnant if you're not having sex and STDs are called that because they are sexually transmitted; no sex, no transmission. About desire, we all got them and we all have an assortment of them. The difference between children and adults is that adults learn to control them. Children act on every desire; if adults did that, society would not be possible. So what I hear you saying is that we should never grow up. Hey kids will be kids, right? Come on. Let's raise the bar and actually expect kids to grow up. Also, giving condoms is giving permission. You may be self deluded, but the kids get the message loud and clear. Sex outside of marriage goes through the roof with this approach and so does all the other problems associated with it. What I hear you saying is that it's best to create 100 problems to solve 1 problem. I'm sorry but that's what I call moral confusion. Final thought, Kids rise to the occasion when you challenge them. Yes, some will fail. But better to loose a 100 than 10000. And the converse is also true. Set a low standard and kids will meet it. That's because they are looking to adults for guidance. So, lets expect more out of kids and not less.
75 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
yes - i agree that abstinence is 100% absolute protection but i still await your explanation of how you would enforce such a policy
75 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
You don't nor should you. The government should remain neutral on this issue. It's the parent's responsibility, not the state's. We need to get sex ed out of public schools and give the choice of sex ed back to the parents were it belongs. And may the best idea win.
74 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
Not if you get raped, no. .............................................
68 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
attn Jstabtall: do you live in some kinda warped universe "Abstinence is the only practice that provides 100% protection against STDs and pregnancy, nothing else comes close." can you show me a culture or a time in human history where society has instituted functional, workable, effective abstinence policy yes - your proposal works in an ideal world were everyone has exactly the same thoughts and actions but that world does NOT exist
76 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
Yes, I do. that's the problem. Why not strive for the ideal instead of settle for something less.
76 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
"Over the past decade, the US federal government has heavily promoted programs that advocate sexual abstinence as the key strategy for dealing with adolescent sexuality, but studies are demonstrating that the approach has little impact on teen sexual behavior or in preventing pregnancy or sexually transmitted diseases (STDs)"
Supporting Evidence:
it just doesn't work
(jama.ama-assn.org)
76 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
Guess it depends on who's study you read and how they ask the questions. The CDC tells a different story. STD means sexually transmitted and if your not having sex (any kind of sexual contact) you're not transmitting; It's that simple. Ask the CDC what they do in an outbreak, quarantine. Why do hospitals not allow children visitors during flu season? Why are you advised to stay at home when sick? Please tell me why this approach works for all diseases except sexually transmitted ones?
75 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
No, of course abortions should not be banned for you would have them anyway regardless of safety, funding or anything else that might get in the way. We would be back in the days of the butcher shops and that wouldn't be good for anyone. Abortion is not a trivial matter and is one that must be thought out thoroughly by the person or persons involved. I wouldn't like to see us take such a serious step lightly nor would I like to see us take a step backwards in time.
76 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
So you would say that it is better that 45 million + children die through abortion than a handful of women through a botched abortion. That doesn't sound like progress to me: That sounds like serious moral confusion. Go check out the stats on abortion rates through out the years and you will see a staggering peak after Roe vs Wade. And yes, we would still have abortions, they would just be a whole lot fewer of them. Again, check out the stats on abortion rates before and after Roe vs Wade.
75 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
This is flawed logic. By your logic nothing should be illegal because people do it anyway. Why make cocain illegal, people do it anyway?
58 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
I understand what you mean and perhaps I should have worded it differently but I remember the times before Roe v. Wade where women would have abotions regardless of peril to their own lives! That's what I meant.
58 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
interesting that in the eight years of Bush and the years of Republican controlled Congress and era of conservative judges that th 1973 Roe versus Wad has not been overturned although they claim to be Christian fundamentalist, they too have a use for abortions ... it not just Democrats that go to Planned Parenthood and private doctors for pregnancy terminations
76 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
Abortion is aw right that should be based solely on the woman's decision. There is no reason for abortion to be banned, and in fact, that is restricting the rights of women by not allowing them to have abortions. Also, think of those who have been raped and sexually abused and have no choice but to bear the child of a person who did such horrible things to them. An abortion is the only way to escape raising something that would always remind that person of something horrible in their life.
59 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
So the woman's decision means killing a child, and that should be ok? How is the fact that the child was conceived through rape, the childs fault? Would you treat this child different after it was born? So, why treat it any different before? Finally, abortion is NOT the only way to escape raising a child that would remind that person of something horrible. They can put the child up for adoption. There are thousands of families waiting.
58 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
No, wit does not mean killing a child. It means killing a zygote that has no conscious thought. Arguments against abortion use scare tactics like killing cute babies in their mother's arms. This is not what abortion is. Abortion is an escape route for people who have no other choice but to not have a baby. You Kamranw forget the situation of the mother's death. Also, yes a child that was born because of a traumatic indecent such as rape would be treated differently. Also, what about the mother's career or in some cases the mother's education. Should that be ruined because of the inability for this escape.
58 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
Help me with something here, are you saying that a career and education are more important than the life of a child? Also, were you ever a zygote that had no conscious though? Than you would have to agree that if your mother had an abortion it would've killed you, not something else, but you. Aren't you glad your mother put your life before hers?
47 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
A mothers career should be a factor in a childs life? And yes, it is a life. You were once under 10 weeks old in your mothers womb as well. Let me rephrase, would you justify a child being treated poorly and judged differently because their mother was raped?
57 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
If you go to your local crisis pregnancy center and ask about adoption they will provide information and if you choose adoption they will lead you through the process.
14 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
After a woman has an abortion, her initial response in most cases is a feeling of relief. Then, with repression and denial, she avoids the problem, usually for years —5 years is common, 10 or 20 not unusual. Guilt, regret, remorse, shame, lowered self-esteem, dreams and nightmares, flash-backs, anniversary reactions, hostility toward men, crying, despair, and even suicide attempts are symptoms of Post-Abortion Syndrome. Many women turn to drugs and alcohol as a way of masking the pain. Anniversary reactions are an increase in symptoms around the time of the anniversary of the abortion, the due date of the aborted child, or both.
14 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
Again I must say that only 1% of all abortions are performed because the pregnancy is the result of rape or incest. Women rarely become pregnant if they are raped.
14 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
As much as I'm against it and think what a horrible feeling and decision that must be for the women, abortion should not be banned altogether. We would go back to the dark ages where doctors and their patients would have "back alley abortions". 3rd trimester should be illegal that's just wrong. It is a very hard topic that I struggle with. Ultimately the choice lies within the women. But what a awful one to make, they will live with it for the rest of their life.
53 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
Abortion should not be banned. Pregnant women would still find a way to abort children, and thereby risk dangerous methods, or suspect "doctors", as seen in other countries. Freedom entitles you to do whatever you want with your body, and by that I mean until a new human is complete.
28 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
if it was: rape--abortion should be allowed. consentual--abortion should not be allowed. you knew what the consequences of your actions would be, now you have to accept it. The only exception would be if the pregnancy could endanger the health of the mother.
23 days ago | Tagged As: it depends on the situation
Only 1% of all abortions in the United States are a result of rape or incest.
15 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
Even if you were raped it still the killing of a living human being...still wrong.
14 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
What I don't get is people pay to kill their OWN children. They are paying to murder an innosent child. Those people are murderers!! They are killers!! And if they have an abortion more than once it is like they are serial killers!!
14 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
Ive had over 10 abortions! Mwaaa ha ha ha ha ha You are retarded, I just want to throw that in.
14 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
I feel sorry for you. I hope you will realize the evilness of your abortions.
14 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should not be banned
I do to...you need to pray to God and realize that that is wrong. you are the kind of people i pray for.
14 days ago | Tagged As: abortion should be banned
|