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Women who go through an abortion have to always carry that thought with them. They often wonder what their child would have looked like, acted like, and what type of person he/she would have been. No matter how strong a woman is, an abortion causes mental anguish that never truly goes away. At least with adoption a mother or father has the chance to see what their child has become.
Whether you are for or against abortion, these 7 reasons why abortion should be illegal tend to cause the thought process to churn. 30 of the 50 states in the US had laws making abortion illegal, until the decision of Roe v. Wade nullified these restrictions. After 1973, abortions were made legal all through the US, yet many would be more than happy to see them made illegal once more. Do you feel abortion is a woman’s right or something that a third party should decide?
Then we should have no laws that prevent people from doing anything they want. Rape should not be prosecuted because people will do it anyway. Drugs shouldn't...child pornography.....child abuse......etc.
Im not saying that we shouldn't have laws. Im saying that something non tangible won't stop human beings from being cruel to other human beings. Law is untangible words. It won't stop a serial killer from killing. And we see murder and rape in the news today. You think law, which has been around for centuries, stop killing? Rape? Child Pornography? This is what i has been talking about. "Stoping" cruel acts instead of preventing cruel acts.
And in a way, i do think we shouldn't have laws. I don't think we should stop preventing cruel acts but in a way, law is pointless.
Edit. No. law is not pointless. In a way, it is effortless because we still have killings today. But law has made society a more peaceful place.
So you don't believe there is a difference between right and wrong. Rape, pedophelia, child pornography, selling human body parts, unjustified murder, cheating to get ahead, stealing, kidnapping.....should all just be legal?
How would civilization survive is we didn't agree somehow on what is right and wrong and have laws to protect the innocent? So you believe in the survival of the fittest....if you can get away with anything its ok.
Whether or not you think the law is effective...it still has to be in place. Or there would be no punishment and accountability for anyones actions.
lol what? What you are saying is totally far off of what i intially said. I meant it really doesn't matter if there is law that says "you can't kill, rape and etc." because people will still do those things. Like alcohol. You can't ban alcohol because people who wants to drink it will drink it.
Hence, this is why you still find people drinking alcohol during the Prohibition era or age. Im not too educated on that time though.
I do think law should have a place in society to prevent people from hurting another person. But if a person is so looking forward to harm another person, he/she will. And we see that today. I know that i had said that law is not pointless. It does have a point...to protect innocent people. However, in some ways it is pointless. It is pointless because people still kill. There are many laws against killing, but yet we see still see that. Thus, illegalizing abortion won't neccessary stop people from doing it. Law is effective and is proven to stop criime. However, that is not always true. Like the Casey Anthony case. I bet she knew that murder is wrong.
This is no way in me thinking that there is no difference between right and wrong.
There was a time that i thought that we all deserved to die because we kill plant life and animal life. It confused me as a human being because i loved my life....so why would i want to take others? right? Cows, lamb, chicken, turkeys are all dying for meat. Thanksgiving day is right around the corner, do you think it is fair for those turkey's to die? It makes me wanna cry but the truth is that we don't deserve to die because this is how life originally is....kill to survive. We have to kill to survive. Kill to live. And i hate that and that is one reason why i want to kill myself and why i hate this world. Tho i don't have the guts to kill myself, living in this world hurts. And no, im not a vegetarian. I love hamburgers and i love turkey. Yes im a hypocrite but i still feel the pain.
WEll at least your honest and seem sincere about it so I am supporting what you say here.
BUT.......and I say but...don't you see the difference between crying for an animals life being taken and a human beings?
You've got whacko hollywood out their savin the whales, the baby sea otters, the eagle the dolphine...you name it. But they support killing human babies. Now how idiotic is that? Killing unborn living babies.....compared to killing an animal.
I do however see your point...and I could NEVER if I had to kill an animal. I probably would starve. I would be a vegetarian. I hate cruelty to anything. But you have to put things in proper prospective...example....Look what Michael Vick did..and compare that to what abortionists do.
I understand both perspectives. One time i asked myself a question. Would i save a dog i love from a passing train or a human i don't know from a passing train? And if it is a dog that i love so much, some parts of me would want to save the dog more than the human.
However, on the morality side of the issue, i would feel like a scum bag for not saving the human being. I would also feel scum for not saving the dog. But because we're humans we have a sense of duty to protect our own kind. So yes, naturally, it is more inhumane to let a child starve than to save a whale that would most likely kill us if he/she wanted too. lol. And using this same sense of perspective, i do see the difference between crying for a life for an animal instead of the life of a human. It is totally retarded to put animals before human beings. I believe there is no asking why this is the way it is because this is the way it is.
That train test i mentioned earlier?...i keep going back and forth if whether to help a dog i love or a human stranger. I want to save both. My morality tells me to save the human first. The right thing to do according to being a human is to help your fellow kind first.
But if the dog or any pets wasn't an animal i cared about...i would definetely save the human first.
No, Not for the reason of birth control but for one simple reason. Rape, it happens alot sadly. And most girls dont want to give birth to the child of there rappiest thats why I think it should be legal
Your argument is a vast presumption. What is most or all of the people who are for abortion were a planned child by their parents? Or an unplanned child that they wanted to keep? You can't just point your finger at the opposition and say, 'Yea well their parents didn't love them so there, I'm right'. It makes you look immature.
How about you actually give a reason why it should be made illegal instead of acting like a child?
In trying to sound 'smart' and 'mature' by assuming and making it a big deal that I sound 'childish' you actually sound pretty childish yourself. I guess you either have first hand experience or maybe a friend or family who went through abortion to have to be so offended.
And, the modern version of the Hippocratic Oath doctors take doesn’t specify that doctor are only to save people and make them better, but it is expected of them. The classic version of this oath actually has the phrase, ‘…I will not give to a woman an abortive remedy.’ and the original Hippocratic Oath states, ‘…I will not give a woman a pessary to cause an abortion.’ Any mention of not performing an abortion has been taken out of the Hippocratic Oath, but not from the minds of people who expect doctors to save lives.
The scientific definition of when life begins is "when the genetic code is complete". That is at conception. Neither a sperm nor an egg is complete, so that is not a human "life".
Abortion should be legal only if the mother's life is at risk, but it has gone too far. It is now used for birth control which is ridiculous. Prevention is much easier and less risky. Abortion is a surgical procedure and not without risks. Abortion also has long term psycholgoical effects, whether admitted or not. The idea that "women now have control over their own bodies" is a misnomer perpetuated by the big business ethics of abortion providers. It's all about money to them, so naturally they want women to think that way. The act of killing one's own child is not an indication of a progressive society. We will not progress until we educate ourselves into using alternatives. That means PREVENTION (or adoption)
Getting pregnant, then killing it doesnt make sense. Why get pregnant? There is no reason to get pregnant when birth control is available.
Abortion also does not consider the rights of either the child or the father. Abortion IS the taking of a life, no matter how it is worded. It is a life, in ONE of it's developmental stages.
In every abortion there are three participants. The mother the baby and the doctor. And more doctors than you think become very depressed over the line of work they are in. How does abortion affect the one doing the actual killing?
One abortionist confessed, “As a physician I’m trained to conserve life and here I am destroying life….I guess I feel guilty because according to the Hippocratic oath you’re not supposed to do abortions. So how could you be trained and raised one way and suddenly be told it ok to do it?” He went on to talk about his experience with saline abortions and the fact that the fetus moves around before the injection, thrashes around immediately after it, but then the movement ceases: “You know that there is something alive in there that you’re killing.”
Magda Denes, In Necessity and Sorrow, New York: Basic Books, Inc.
Other internal conflict………..The abortionist who has to change gears from practicing obstetrics and protecting pregnancy to a terminator and the killer of a pregnancy.
“You have to be a bit schizophrenic. In one room you encourage the patient that the slight irregularity of the fetal heart is not important, everything is going well, she is going to have a nice baby, and then you shut the door and go into the next room and assure another patient on whom you just did a saline abortion, that it’s fine if the heart is already irregular, she has nothing to worry about, she is not going to have a live baby. You have to make a 180 degree turn, but somehow it evolved in my own mind gradually.”
Magda Denes, In Necessity and Sorrow, New York: Basic Books, Inc.
I don't care who they are...people know what abortion is and does. And if doctors can feel guilty and have depression over it.....then why is doing abortion a good thing? How does abortion bring families together?
That's true- expunging words and phrases doesn't legitimize evil in the minds of compassionate, reasonable people. Doctors have traditionally been, and should still be, human instruments of healing, not paid death-dealers to unborn children.
abortion should be made illegal because first the baby did not asked to be born the mother had choice in engaging in intercourse or not and just because she made a mistake she wants to kill the baby because she doesn't want responsibility and also if they guys who get the girl pregnant would get more supportive and mature the girl wouldn't have to take a desperate measure like that. now if a girl is raped that's different i think the baby would be a reminder but i don't think she should kill it theirs always adoption or foster homes or even keep the baby yourself . babies are a miracle of life and shouldn't be taken away they don't deserve it
I have taken the stance of abortion....and it wasnt because I didnt want the responsiblty it was due to the fact that I dont have money to support (let me guess I should think about that before I have sex.....), and its definitely not because my partner (my boyfriend of 5 years) is very mature and supportive.
There are many reasons why I chose this route. And just because it doesnt live up to your standards does not mean Im wrong
Making an abortion is very harmful to women because it stopes her pregnancy and it can have bad consequences. I believ that abortion is as the same as killing person! I take the view that abortion should be banned, except cases when there is danger to the life of a mother or a child.
You may "believe" that abortion is the same as killing, but what you believe is wrong. It is a cluster of cells with no more brain power or self-awareness than an insect. Morally eating chicken is closer to murder than abortion.
At what point does the "cluster of cells" become self-aware? 3 months? 6 months? Is a new born baby self aware? Any more than it was moments before birth while still in the womb? Where's the cut off line? Is not abortion still killing even if it's just an unaware cluster of cells? Because that unaware cluster of cells does in fact have life. Anytime you terminate life you kill. Is it morally okay to terminate human life at any stage in its development? Does it not make sense to look at a human life on the whole, from beginning to end/from end to beginning, and consider each stage of a person's life equally worthy? To not think deeply about these questions, and to not come up with some satisfactory answers, is being extremely reckless with human life.
At what point does the "cluster of cells" become self-aware? 3 months? 6 months? Is a new born baby self aware?
This has been researched extensively and the brain functions both to begin the first stages of "feeling pain" to a small degree and for anything beginning to resemble awareness of themself beyond what a plant feels does not begin taking place until a little after the third trimester. Which is why the current laws are in place.
Pro-everything-is-my-business lifers are arguing from a fallacious position, assuming ignorance of something that is known in some instances, and more commonly actually stating falsities as facts.
Is not abortion still killing even if it's just an unaware cluster of cells? Because that unaware cluster of cells does in fact have life. Anytime you terminate life you kill.
Sure. Pulling up a carrot and eating it is killing as well. Neither are murder however, nor morally wrong by any semblance of consistent, non-hypocritical human morality. You can be hypocritical of course, and claim this far-fetched position. If it is by no other compass that we judge morality than potential human life all men should constantly be ejaculating into tubes and continuously inserting said tubes into as many women as possible each, willing or not, in order to ensure the survival of as many sperm as possible. Whilst not eating anything that ever lived including fruits and vegetables.
Arguing potential life leads to endless fallacies, and its practice the death of all life human and otherwise. Self-awareness or sentients are the only standards we are capable of holding ourselves to, which leads to abortion up to the third-trimester remaining legal, accept in the cases of rape, incest, disease or possible death. Which is the current law.
To not think deeply about these questions, and to not come up with some satisfactory answers, is being extremely reckless with human life.
I've apparently thought of these questions to a far greater extent than any of the anti-abortion crowd chiming in. At least you're asking though.
I guess, as a Christian, my anti-abortion stance rests solely on the fact that I believe I am accountable to God in the end. So, as abortion is clearly not something God would approve of, I also can not approve of it--not just because God disapproves, but also because in my heart (a heart after God) I am certain abortion is absolutely wrong, and I am disgusted by it. I am unwilling to change my stance even after hearing the best scientific arguments. I suppose that sounds closed minded, but are not those who "religiously" support abortion just as equally closed minded?
So, as abortion is clearly not something God would approve of, I also can not approve of it
I do not find this clear at all. Your make believe character is quite contradicting in this point actually.
Exodus 21:22-25 - basically if two dudes are in fisticuffs and a pregnant woman is killed whilst this is happening he is put to death, but if the fetus is aborted there is only a fine.
Numbers 5:11-31 - if a married chick is impregnated by some other guy than she's required to have an abortion.
It seems an indifferent stance toward this practice at best. Unfortunately you Christians tend to pick and choose what you follow within that silly book based on what some charlatan who knows nothing of it tells you instead of common sense and what it says.
not just because God disapproves, but also because in my heart (a heart after God) I am certain abortion is absolutely wrong, and I am disgusted by it.
Well, in my heart of hearts I am certain abortion is absolutely right, and I'm disgusted by those who impose their superstitions on others despite evidence both that the thing being aborted has no capacity for feeling and no self-awareness and that when abortion was illegal it lead to the death of thousands of women who were self-aware and capable of feeling.
I am unwilling to change my stance even after hearing the best scientific arguments.
Which is a wonderful summation of how destructive and evil your cult is.
I suppose that sounds closed minded, but are not those who "religiously" support abortion just as equally closed minded?
No, my evidence is based on fact and science, and should science be discovered saying for instance, it is the second and not third-trimester when those cells become self-aware, I would adjust my stance.
You on the other hand will not change despite both science and that the very religion you claim to follow is contradicting on this subject.
Moreover, I am not supporting forcing others to my position, I'm supporting allowing others the freedom to make a choice. You position is taking away free will - and doing such for senseless and easily disproven reasons.
What do you think of the documentary "180"?
I'm not swayed by propaganda nor comparing living humans to a tumor growing in a woman's stomach.
Exodus 21:22-25 states that if a woman is struck when two men are fighting, causing her to give birth prematurely, yet there is no injury (the child does not die), then a fine must be paid (vs22)--but if there is further injury then the punishment is life for life, eye for eye etc...(vs23-25)--so you've misread these verses entirely.
Numbers 5:11-31 talks about what will happen to a woman who is unfaithful to her husband--I don't see anything about abortion here at all. The woman loses her ability to conceive, and she herself suffers a physical punishment, but there is no reference here to terminating the life of an unborn child--so you've misread these verses entirely as well.
Since you've misread/misquoted these verses there's really no reason for me to take anything else you write seriously--you're probably just misquoting everything else as well. How a person does one thing is how they do most things.
Exodus 21:22-25 states that if a woman is struck when two men are fighting, causing her to give birth prematurely, yet there is no injury (the child does not die), then a fine must be paid (vs22)--but if there is further injury then the punishment is life for life, eye for eye etc...(vs23-25)--so you've misread these verses entirely.
You mean after they changed it a few years ago when it came to light your abortion jihaad has no biblical backing? Here's the original and closest actual translation:
"If men struggle with each other and strike a woman with child so that she has a miscarriage, yet there is no further injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman’s husband may demand of him, and he shall pay as the judges decide. 23 But if there is any further injury, then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise." Ex. 21:22-25, The New American Standard Bible, 1995 Update, (La Habra, California: The Lockman Foundation) 1996.
Numbers 5:11-31 talks about what will happen to a woman who is unfaithful to her husband--I don't see anything about abortion here at all. The woman loses her ability to conceive, and she herself suffers a physical punishment, but there is no reference here to terminating the life of an unborn child--so you've misread these verses entirely as well.
>< Maybe the church was right originally, and regular people shouldn't be allowed to read the bible. You don't seem to be able to understand it.
Here's the part where they abort the kid:
5:20 But if thou hast gone aside to another instead of thy husband, and if thou be defiled, and some man have lain with thee beside thine husband:
5:21 Then the priest shall charge the woman with an oath of cursing, and the priest shall say unto the woman, The LORD make thee a curse and an oath among thy people, when the LORD doth make thy thigh to rot, and thy belly to swell;
5:22 And this water that causeth the curse shall go into thy bowels, to make thy belly to swell, and thy thigh to rot: And the woman shall say, Amen, amen.
5:23 And the priest shall write these curses in a book, and he shall blot them out with the bitter water:
5:24 And he shall cause the woman to drink the bitter water that causeth the curse: and the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter.
Since you've misread/misquoted these verses there's really no reason for me to take anything else you write seriously--you're probably just misquoting everything else as well. How a person does one thing is how they do most things.
I'll be awaiting my apology. Along with all of the poor women your silly bible's been encouraging the mistreatment of.
The original Hebrew in the Exodus verses simply refers to a child "coming forth" from the woman prematurely. As to the Numbers verses you seem to be assuming that there is a child being killed in the womb of the woman--I disagree with your assumption as there is no mention of an unborn human being being killed. So I stand by what I've already said.
Okay you want to stay in denial about the Exodus verse, fine their PR rewrite worked on you.
But if you truly don't understand the meaning in the Numbers piece than you should probably stick to coloring between the lines and Sponge Bob Square Pants instead of taking it upon yourself to tell other people how to live their life.
Really the whole debate on abortion revolves around the debate of whether or not there is a God to whom we are all accountable to. If I didn't believe in God I probably wouldn't care too much about abortion.
There will always be an unending dispute between us because I believe in God, and I believe He is holy. You deny God, and when you talk about Him in the context that He does possibly exist, you don't refer to Him as holy, but rather you compare Him to yourself. (When God kills/punishes in the Bible, He is acting as God, not as a man like you. You need to understand His holiness in order to understand His actions. God does act in terrifying ways, and often severe ways, but that does not mean He is not good.~Romans 11:22) It's good to see that you are reading the Bible though. I hope you continue to read it.
I also suggest you download material from Dr RC Sproul, John Piper, and Paul Washer. Listening carefully to these teachers may lead you to the truth.
So there is a rift between you and me that can never be crossed, and that's okay.
Really the whole debate on abortion revolves around the debate of whether or not there is a God to whom we are all accountable to. If I didn't believe in God I probably wouldn't care too much about abortion.
Actually most people who believe in god also believe there's nothing wrong with abortion before the third-trimester. This is fairly obvious since the vast majority believe in a god and a large majority believe there is nothing immoral about abortion.
There will always be an unending dispute between us because I believe in God, and I believe He is holy. You deny God, and when you talk about Him in the context that He does possibly exist, you don't refer to Him as holy
No, there will be an unending dispute because I offer you known scientific data as to why that cluster of cells is not sentient, and you refuse to give any counter argument beyond blind faith.
but rather you compare Him to yourself. (When God kills/punishes in the Bible, He is acting as God, not as a man like you.
I would never belittle myself in such a way, case in point your next sentence...
(When God kills/punishes in the Bible, He is acting as God, not as a man like you. You need to understand His holiness in order to understand His actions. God does act in terrifying ways, and often severe ways, but that does not mean He is not good.~Romans 11:22)
You've created another standard for a being based on nothing but power. ie, he is powerful therefore it is somehow okay if he does these things. With this attitude you could be worshiping satan in disguise for all you know. The merit of any sentient thing mortal or immortal should be based on their actions. To judge one by any other standard is inviting evil, not worshiping good.
I also suggest you download material from Dr RC Sproul, John Piper, and Paul Washer. Listening carefully to these teachers may lead you to the truth.
I was a couple credits away from a minor on the silliness. There is no reason to dedicate so much of one's life to a single book written by man. I'll pass on further invitations to indoctrination regardless of how highly they are recommended thank you.
So there is a rift between you and me that can never be crossed, and that's okay.
And if only those "christians" threatening the lives of doctors, even killing them in a few instances and making young scared girls feel even worse for even visiting a clinic would realize as you apparently have that their own world view cannot be bludgeoned into every other human on earth I'd have far less animosity toward your ilk.
I won't resort to petty insults.
That's a shame. I thoroughly enjoy them truth be told. Very well have it your way.
It clearly descripes a women who may or may not be with child being administered posion to damage her fertility; while sex doesn't mean pregnacy consuming posion after sex that affects reproductivity means either sterilization, abortion or both.
Terminating your own child is wrong, no matter what stage of development it is in or how self-aware it is.
What if the child will likely be still born due to some disease and not aborting it would potentially kill the mother?
See the problem with blanket statements and why simpletons with low IQs shouldn't be in charge of deciding what others should or should not do with their body?
Besides, it's not a child. I've demonstrated this and you guys have no new arguments, least none based in reality.
Which is why it is a choice. You don't have to ever have an abortion, leave others alone who do not share your superstitions however.
Okay. But it is not a child as in "youth between birth and adulthood."
They would not be terminated sure, having been terminated via evil nature or evil god apparently already. They would still need to perform an abortion to get rid of it however. I have many other examples that don't involve an already dead fetus though. Do your really want me to go through them or are you being glib?
Tell me david........what is every abortionists goal? Is it to preserve and nurture life or stop it? And what is another name for stopping it? If you want to swat a mosquito from your face and get rid of it what do you do? Ya kill it....right? So what does the abortionist do?
Here are pictures of the clumps of cells you call nothing.
Have you ever been pregnant David? Ever felt a baby move in your belly? Ever had someone congratulate you on the cells you are carrying? Have you ever said to someone.......when is the clump of cells due? How is the clump of cells? Do you know the sex of the clump of cells your carrying? Or hear someone say...I am going to a clump of cells shower? What are you getting the clump of cells for the clump of cells shower?
Get real.
The facts are clear on this......and backed up by science. Life starts at the moment of conception. It is a new life...nothing potential about it.
Who cares about brain power......i question your brain power in this debate. Do mentally handicapped or challenged people deserve less of a right to live than you do? Show our rights to live be determine by our IQ?
For you to compare eating a chicken to a human beings life shows how imcompetent you really are to debate this. How do you live David? How many ants have you smushed on a sidewalk? How many have you killed when driving down the road? Have you ever swatted a mosquito? Ever gone fishing?
The video is retarded. I'm starting to see a pattern of you citing bullshit. It's a cluster of cells and whatever things its doing are completely involuntary and without thought. Something that is not conscious is "alive" in the sense that a plant is alive, but it is not "living" in the sense you are talking about. Your problem is all you do is preach and say the same dumb arguments over and over. You can show me every picture you want, that you think something is cute or whatever doesn't mean it's a living thing and doesn't mean it gives you the right to force your baseless views on others.
Tell me david........what is every abortionists goal? Is it to preserve and nurture life or stop it? And what is another name for stopping it? If you want to swat a mosquito from your face and get rid of it what do you do? Ya kill it....right? So what does the abortionist do?
The goal of an abortionist is to provide a medical service that woman have been having for tens of thousands of years, legal or not. And without which there would be far more deaths, but in this instance the death of actual living people, the mothers, and not a tumor growing in their belly.
Have you ever been pregnant David? Ever felt a baby move in your belly? Ever had someone congratulate you on the cells you are carrying? Have you ever said to someone.......when is the clump of cells due? How is the clump of cells? Do you know the sex of the clump of cells your carrying? Or hear someone say...I am going to a clump of cells shower? What are you getting the clump of cells for the clump of cells shower?
I have not been pregnant, which is exactly why it's none of my business. This is why it is the woman's choice... wtf is so hard to understand about that?
Do you know the sex of the clump of cells your carrying? Or hear someone say...I am going to a clump of cells shower? What are you getting the clump of cells for the clump of cells shower?
Again, the bullshit touchy feely superstitions of religious nuts who have absolutely no idea when life does or does not begin in no way sways scientific knowledge that the thing is not self-aware.
The facts are clear on this......and backed up by science. Life starts at the moment of conception. It is a new life...nothing potential about it.
The facts are clear, but they are the opposite of what you just said. The best estimates are that those things you and the religious love more than actual real living people does not even have a glimmer of what will eventually be a consious until well into the third trimester.
For you to compare eating a chicken to a human beings life shows how imcompetent you really are to debate this. How do you live David? How many ants have you smushed on a sidewalk? How many have you killed when driving down the road? Have you ever swatted a mosquito? Ever gone fishing?
Um... you just proved my point. All of those things are more self-aware than these pictures and videos you're citing.
All you've done is repeat, over and over, the same arguments that everyone has had shoved done their throat by holier than though christians for decades. There's nothing new here and no amount of repeating them or downvotes are going to change that this push to make all abortion illegal would kill more mothers, not save a single fetus, and take away women's fundamental right over their own body.
It's quite monstrous actually. You should be ashamed of yourself.
I would bet my life you couldn't watch it. The video speaks and shows the truth and beyond your cold self serving attitude you know it is. I am not citing bullcrap......it is the truth and that was an authentic video.
You like other pro-abort dance around with such friendly wording...procedure is what you want to call it. You guys never have the balls to say KILL. THE ABORTIONIST KILLS THE LIVING BEING IN THE WOMB. You don't have the guts. So put up or shut up skippy.
Its none of your business and that is your opinion....but you spend a lot of time around here bashing those who do stand up against it.
Is it also the womans choice to kill the unborn in the ninth month? Yes or no.
As I said..you can't hang here in this debate you don't know enough. You have no idea what science says. And you certainly don't know the pro-life movement that well.....everyone is not a Christian in it. Your just obsessed by Christians which really makes me laugh...because if anyones life views are disturbing they are YOURS.
Do you believe everyone should have the right to do whatever they wish with their own bodies? So if someone wants to sell his body parts to the highest bidder...that would be ok with you? How about a woman who gets pregnant just to sell the body parts of the unborn? That ok with you?
And before Roe was passed..........Planned Parenthood stated that the majority of abortions were performed in doctors clinics...that the death rate for the woman doing it themselves was extremely low. I would post that information but you wouldnt know what to do with it....and would shrug it off anyway. Your pro-killing period.
I've seen that video like 50 times. It's been "debunked" if you will, not that there was anything to debunk. You're problem is the only information you get is all from the very fringe of anti-abortion zealots. You don't get any real information so when someone tells you the truth they "sound like an idiot."
Like, if I lived in a box my whole life and only read Dr. Zeus then someone came inside the box and said "cats don't really wear hats for the most part" They'd sound utterly moronic.
Its none of your business and that is your opinion
No, it's none of my business because it does not have anything to do with me. Just as another's choice has nothing to do with you - hence none of your business either.
Is it also the womans choice to kill the unborn in the ninth month? Yes or no.
Laws and science have established it is illegal after the third trimester, which is fair, except in the cases of incest, rape, health and life of the mother, which is also fair. The far Christian right though are anything but fair and given the chance would force 12 year olds to take to term a rapists child even it it meant her death. The great evil you represent must be gaurded against at all costs.
As I said..you can't hang here in this debate you don't know enough. You have no idea what science says. And you certainly don't know the pro-life movement that well.....everyone is not a Christian in it. Your just obsessed by Christians which really makes me laugh...because if anyones life views are disturbing they are YOURS.
Here, since christians are hijacking the internet with their false propaganda it is actually hard to find unbiased sources. This will dispel some of the myths you are clinging to however.
You are simply going to continue citing lies as truths, so there is no point. But read some of the misinformation you've been fed and inturn spewing all over CD.
You say the video shows lies but you have watched it 50 times.........LMAO
Oh this only gets better doesn't it? LOL
There is nothing false about the video. It is the truth and has not been thrown out in the pro-aborts garbage.
Do you think for one minute that PParenthood or any clinic in the United States or anywhere else wants to show a video of an abortion? No. Why? It does not take a brain surgeon to figure out that they don't want it shown because less women just might want to come to the clinic to use their services. This is a video they want banned....because it shows the inhumanity of what abortion really is.
So you are not going to find any pro-abort group showing one.
Here are a few more.....I am sure you have watched these 50 times (lmao) as well. ARe all these false and show lies?
So the video you say is false.....yet you watched it over 50 times? LMAO
Oh this only gets better...and better with you pro-aborts.
Let me tell you or educate you on the truth. Let me ask you a question. Do you think any abortion clinic...or Planned Parenthood abortion facitility would want to show abortion videos? They don't want this shown, they want it banned and they fight like hell to stop these from being shown to women who want to kill their babies .........for MONEY. It keeps them in business. PP is the biggest abortion provider on the planet.....they make billions a year....they profit. So no pro-abortion provider would want an abortion, an actual one displayed for anyone to watch. It shows the inhumanity of this medical procedure.
So to find the truth one must go to a pro-life site...that gives you an excuse to say they are all propoganda and false. But they are not...and the site I gave you has never been debunked by those who professionally have examined it.
Why don't you do this....find me an abortion video showing an actual abortion from a pro abortion site. LOL
This is my business because I believe it is morally wrong. And I have every right to work to end it. You have no right to stop me and you know it.
LMAO....now this is hilarious. You just said...that abortion is none of your business. Here is what you said......."No, it's none of my business because it does not have anything to do with me. Just as another's choice has nothing to do with you - hence none of your business either."
You believe this because the pregnant body belongs to the woman so she should decide what happens to the unborn. I baited you on this question and you fell. So its her body........BUT IT REALLY ISNT, RIGHT? Because if you take away her choice at all in any month she might be in...you are taking her rights to her own body away. YOU ARE NOW ENSLAVING HER. What if she does not beleive that the unborn at eight months is a person....what right (playing devils advocate here) do YOU HAVE TO TELL HER SHE CAN'T.
You dont seem to listen and care what science says in the first and second trimester......so what....now the baby looks like a baby you get all gooey and sentimental? Then abortion becomes wrong...because YOU THINK ITS WRONG.
You have no clue.
Let me ask you this. If you walked into a nursery with ten babies sleeping. And the nurse asked you to pick out the one whose mother was raped......think you could do it? Does a rape baby have a less right to life as one whose mother was not raped? Rape is a violent crime. Abortion too is violent. So to solve the problem...do two wrongs makes a right?
Abortion to save the life of the mother rarely happens. Guttmaucher says the situations you talk about here...rape incest and mothers health happen in less than 1% of all abortions that take place.
You should beef up on science and what it says about life. Science does not say it is not a human life in the first trimester but it all of a sudden becomes a human life down the road somewhere in the 2nd and third trimester.
The great evil is YOU and those who think like YOU. You have no regard for life really. Killing is a fast solution for you...you are manipulators and pretenders and you bounce around on facts that are false. The woman has the right you say.........oh wait......she doesnt have the right really not if she is to far along. She does, she doesn't......she does, she doesnt. Your position is abusurd and does not hang logically or scientifically.
As I said...........show me a video presented by a pro-abort group...that shows the truth. (you can find anything on the internet so this should be no problem LOL not for someone who obviously watches a lot of abortion videos.....LOL) Show the video of a unborn being scrapped, burned, disected....and coming out looking great. LOL
I am not telling anything that is not factual. You are the one who looks like an idiot sorry.
Your linking a bunch anti-abortion propoganda. We know for an absolute fact that the thing inside a woman has no capacity to think, feel or be aware until into the 3rd trimester. Link all the bs you like, it won't change that fact. Abortions are already illegal after the 3rd trimester except in cases of rape, incest and the mother's health. As it should be. End of story. Take your fairytales and baseless guilt trips elsewhere. No one is forcing you to have an abortion, you have 0 right to force others to your own will based on nothing but your own illusionary feelings of guilt.
What do you mean as it should be. You mean to tell me that you would deny a womans right to her own body at any time? Why what right do you have to do that? If you deny her the rights to her body.....how is that anything different than what I am doing?
You pro-aborts are all over the place your positions do not hang together logically and you know it.
You said....or you brought up the fact that the unborn cant think, feel or be aware...of anything until the third semester. My neice however was born at 23 1/2 weeks.....and she is now 19 and in college. And if you think abortions are not done in the third trimester you are naive...they do.
I am not going anywhere skippy.....you can't threaten me. I have a right to voice opposition to abortion and you can do nothing to stop me. If you don't like my position.....why don't you take a hike. This is a debate site....is it not? I would suggest you debate the topic instead of continually using threatening language towards people who are pro-life and telling them to hit the road. Why do you even respond to abortion related posts?
I know why David because you are a hateful person who likes to rub things in peoples faces to hurt them. I would bet you DAvid were the bully on the playground who beat on people because they did not want to be your friend.
And ya know what I regret my abortion...but if I had such horrible feelings about it I would not be working in the field I can tell ya that.
What I post is not propoganda......it is the truth you want hidden.
I'm starting to see the problem. You're not smart enough to debate me.
Bold the specific points you are talking about, then reply to each in turn. It will make it a lot easier. Like this.
What do you mean as it should be. You mean to tell me that you would deny a womans right to her own body at any time? Why what right do you have to do that? If you deny her the rights to her body.....how is that anything different than what I am doing?
No, I'm saying it's her body and you should mind your own business, up to the third trimester when science has determined that cluster of cells begin (to a small degree) to have some semblance of awareness and a capacity for pain. Which is the current law. Which is what I've said... several times now.
You pro-aborts are all over the place your positions do not hang together logically and you know it.
Show me where you are confused and I'll help you.
You said....or you brought up the fact that the unborn cant think, feel or be aware...of anything until the third semester. My niece however was born at 23 1/2 weeks.....and she is now 19 and in college. And if you think abortions are not done in the third trimester you are naive...they do.
Third-trimester. And your niece was born without the capacity to think and was not self-aware in that case. And it is thanks to the science, same science that understands that your niece did not have those capacities, that she lived. If it were up to god your niece would have been a divine abortion or something.
I am not going anywhere skippy.....you can't threaten me. I have a right to voice opposition to abortion and you can do nothing to stop me. If you don't like my position.....why don't you take a hike. This is a debate site....is it not? I would suggest you debate the topic instead of continually using threatening language towards people who are pro-life and telling them to hit the road. Why do you even respond to abortion related posts?
Out of your system? Feel better now?
I know why David because you are a hateful person who likes to rub things in peoples faces to hurt them.
No. I'm a humanist, who happens to be atheist. I'm for the most good for the most people whenever possible. Outlawing abortion, as we know from the centuries and centuries when it was illegal, does not save a single cluster of cells and creates an environment where rape victims and 12 year old girls in abusive households are forced into dirty alleys and basements to maybe survive the procedure, or as often die of it. All the while you and others like you making them feel worse about it than they already do.
I would bet you DAvid were the bully on the playground who beat on people because they did not want to be your friend
You'd make a terrible psychologist. Not even close.
And ya know what I regret my abortion...but if I had such horrible feelings about it I would not be working in the field I can tell ya that.
And it is a shame you've chosen a faith that makes you feel guilty for something you should feel no guilt for. Another victim of the theology you're defending. You should feel as much guilt for the blameless act as I feel for masturbation, which is to say none.
What I post is not propaganda......it is the truth you want hidden.
There is literally nothing I can do about you believing propaganda over independent scientific research. I suppose you believe they found the Noah's Ark in the Himalayas as well.
Making an abortion is very harmful to women because it stopes her pregnancy and it can have bad consequences.
Stopping the pregnancy is the point of the abortion. Why is it harmful to the women if she chose for it to happen? All surgery has possible consequences. But sometimes, the consequences of a possible child are much higher.
I believ that abortion is as the same as killing person!
Sometimes it is, but sometimes it's not.
I take the view that abortion should be banned, except cases when there is danger to the life of a mother or a child.
Then you're not banning it if you're allowing it in any circumstance...
You are right abortion is done with premeditation a miscarriage is not. No woman pays to have a miscarriage...they pay to kill their child and that is called abortion. And many people agonize and mourn over a miscarriage and losing a child.
.they pay to kill their child and that is called abortion.
FUCK! You don't know what you're talking about! Something that was never alive is impossible to kill! It's the same as killing a fly that is pissing you off - fly's do not have the capacity to process thoughts, feelings and pain; the same as a young, developing fetus!
You losing it? Usually when people start swearing and throwing temper tantrums are losing it...they are against the wall and have no where to do so they lash out.
If that which is being aborted in the womb is not alive Pizza.........THERE WOULD BE NO NEED TO HIRE ANY PROCEDURE DONE. LMAO
IF THAT WHICH IS IN THE WOMB IS NOT ALIVE.......WHY DO ANYTHING?
Do you even read what you are saying? Are you saying the abortionist is just cleaning out an empty womb? LMAO
FAct.............that which is in the womb is being killed so IT WON'T GROW...SO IT WON'T DEVELOP....IT IS BEING DONE TO KILL THE LIFE.
Why do you even debate this.....you have no clue what abortion even is.
Usually when people start swearing and throwing temper tantrums are losing it...they are against the wall and have no where to do so they lash out.
Blatant and incorrect stereotypical comment. Last time I checked swearing doesn't mean someone is losing it, I was using the words in a casual way (like any other normal person without a pole up their ass).
If that which is being aborted in the womb is not alive Pizza.........THERE WOULD BE NO NEED TO HIRE ANY PROCEDURE DONE. LMAO
What the hell does that even mean?!?!?! Of course you need a procedure - to get what isn't alive out of someone before it becomes alive! Do you think that if something isn't alive it will just disappear? What the fuck does that comment even mean?
IF THAT WHICH IS IN THE WOMB IS NOT ALIVE.......WHY DO ANYTHING?
How high is your IQ? 5? Obviously it is to get the thing out of the woman's stomach before it becomes a living, conscious being!
Do you even read what you are saying? Are you saying the abortionist is just cleaning out an empty womb? LMAO
Are you reading what you're saying? And as said before, no he isn't, so shut up. Amnd why is he the 'antagonist'? Because he happily preforms a perfectly legal (in most cases) procedure? Is he the antagonist because stupid Christians don't mind their own business and feel the need to try and make everyone that isn't a Christian feel like shit?
FAct.............that which is in the womb is being killed so IT WON'T GROW...SO IT WON'T DEVELOP....IT IS BEING DONE TO KILL THE LIFE.
Ummm what?
Why do you even debate this.....you have no clue what abortion even is.
Oh yeah, I obviously don't know what an abortion is? Idiot!
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So in conclusion what I gather you are saying is that preventing a human life is murder? So condoms are murder? Masturbation is murder? I don't have any idea what point you are trying to make. Stop writing in caps for fuck sake.
I am sorry if someone is debating..there is no room for profanity. You can tell when someone always is about to lose it however. And it is not stereotypical, profanity has it's place. In the garbage.
You have got to be kidding? I mean really am I being punked?
Someone tell this guy that he is wrong, please. You are unbelievably ignorant.
I will say this.....in over ten years of working in this business.......I have yet to find one person who did not know or who thinks the unborn is not alive before the abortion.
Please tell me you made a typo....LOL
I mean you are to stupid on this to even converse with...really. I am laughing so hard I can barely type.
If nothing was alive.......this would not be a moral issue. LOL
And skippy....if you think that you can threaten me by telling me to shut up you have another thing comin.
You are the most ignorant person I have ever known concerning abortion. I have talked to some really crazy people let me tell ya. And if you are this stupid in not knowing that there is a life already started in the womb.......then wow...I can only imagine what your life is like.
This is not about preventing a life....the life was started. The abortionist ends it.......LMAO. You need to educate yourself. On any other debatesite you would be laughed out of the community the discussion...this one is different that much is obvious....so you will be allowed to lurk around and pretend to know what your talking about......This place hates Christians and those who don't cow tow to the liberal side of social issues. You fit in just right...
I believe that abortion should be illegal, because it's ending a life. Some consider abortion to be murder since the being inside the mother is living. The definition of something living includes the ability to grow, which is exactly what is going on inside a woman who is pregnant. An abortion ceases the growing process, therefore ending the future life of a human being. This little being may not start off with a heartbeat or brain activity, but cells are still dividing and allowing it to grow.
Secondly, children can’t and don’t ask to be born, this is purely an option only adults have. Whether the woman chose to get pregnant or not, pro-life individuals feel that abortion is taking the right to live from a human being. This is a right that an embryo cannot defend. Some people say that humans only get to exercise the right of choice once they are old enough to reason, but others feel that a competent adult can also speak for those who are unable to do so on their own.
Thirdly, Adoption is always brought up when people talk about aborting an unwanted child. The idea of aborting a child who would make a welcome addition to another family’s household is expressed by many pro-life individuals. There are tons of people who get rejected when they apply to adopt a child, which makes the idea of adoption seem far-fetched to these individuals. However, most people feel putting a child up for adoption is much better than going through an abortion.
There is no such thing as an unwanted human being in this case a child. Someone would love to adopt, someone would love to nurture..a child. To use that excuse is ridiculous.
Many people also feel that if I cant have the child.....no one else will either...and I can live with abortion better than knowing my whole life that its with some other family.
What they don't realize at the time is that abortion does not always go away. Women suffer in silence over their abortions......I know I did and I was suicidal over it. It took over thirty years of suffering to come to terms with my actions. It was not fun...for me, my family, my marriage.
Abortion kills. It is one decision that you never can take back.
A women that has been raped i think would not want to have or carry that baby it is going to be a constant reminder of the tragic event that has happened to them. also many children dont get adopted all the time and eventually just get kicked out the system and into the streets.through any type of surgery there are going to be traumatic.
Everything else has evolved over the year, so why not the idea of abortion? Sure, abortion, child abandonment, and even infanticide were all once permitted under Roman law, but that doesn’t make them humane. Leaving your child on someone’s doorstep or committing murder are both considered a major penalty, so why not abortion?
Sure, abortion, child abandonment, and even infanticide were all once permitted under Roman law, but that doesn’t make them humane.
Except you forgot that infanticide and abortion are different in the fact that one occurs while the child is just a cluster of cells. I'll admit that killing a conscious fetus is barbaric and should be illegal, but if the fetus is not conscious and emitting brain-waves, it is not a human being. A baby is conscious and a human being. A cluster of brainless cells is not conscious and not human.
Unless of course you consider an amputated limb to be a human being. That's a cluster of cells that has no conscious. It's exactly like a fetus, except it's cells will not continue to reproduce due to the lack of being present in a nutrient vat.
The unborn in the womb is human and it is a being because it is alive...DNA would always show that is was human. How can you say this? Is a brain dead person still a human being? Yes, the heart is still beating.
An amputated limb does not have a heart. And someone can live without a leg. You can cut a leg off and still live.
I can't believe all these posters here who consider themselves such knowledgable in science......would say the idiotic things that are being said.
What do you mean that abortion only occurs when the baby is only a clutter of cells? LOL
No, I do not mean that. You misread what I said if you think that.
Most abortions are done WHEN THE HEART HAS STARTED BEATING.
The heart beating has nothing to do with whether it's brain has activity or not.
Nine in ten abortions occur in the first twelve weeks.
If your statistics are true, then most abortions aren't abortions, they are murder. They should be illegal after 6 weeks and legal up until the last day of the 5th.
The unborn in the womb is human and it is a being because it is alive...DNA would always show that is was human.
Humanity is not defined by DNA or living tissue. It is defined by a consciousness. If we didn't have a consciousness, we would never have developed the term 'humanity' because such a thing would not exist without the consciousness. If living matter and DNA constituted rights equal to that of a human being, then not only would we only be allowed to eat rocks, but we would never be allowed to produce any products that require plants or animals... meaning we would live without cloths inside stone caves.
Since a fetus does not have a consciousness until around the 6th week, it is not a human being 100% of the time it's in the womb. But if it's killed after it has brainwaves, then it's being murdered, not aborted.
Is a brain dead person still a human being? Yes, the heart is still beating.
No, a brain dead person is not a human being. Their heart beating does not make them human; their consciousness does. Since they have no consciousness, they are not human.
You are a monster for thinking that they should be considered human. Think of all the families that are convinced their family member with a dead brain is still alive. They aren't. They died with their brain. All that's left is a piece of meat that has no soul.
An amputated limb does not have a heart. And someone can live without a leg. You can cut a leg off and still live.
And? That's mostly the point. Except my point is that an amputated limb has no brain, like a fetus before the 6th week of the pregnancy. Both have no consciousness and both are not human. Duh.
I've explained this before to you. I shouldn't have to repeat myself. It's nothing but logical and should be easy to remember.
I can't believe all these posters here who consider themselves such knowledgable in science......would say the idiotic things that are being said.
Are you comparing me to them? That would be a foolish thing to do, considering I'm much, much smarter then you.
An amputated limb is not like an unborn.....LMAO
They are not the same thing, no. Like I said, one is bathed in a nutrient vat. Other then that, they both lack a brain and consciousness, making them essentially the same until the fetus becomes a human at around the 6th week of the pregnancy.
It should be banned, a baby, be it fully developed or not is still a life, it is not right to take away a life, and abortion may harm to mother too, in other words, abortion should be banned. If it is not right to take away a persons life, then why is it legal to take away a babies life, not even a more than 9 months alive? The baby can feel too, they have life too.
It should be banned, a baby, be it fully developed or not is still a life, it is not right to take away a life, and abortion may harm to mother too, in other words, abortion should be banned.
It should be banned only once the fetus is as a certain point of development. If it's illegal 100% of the time, then gosh darn it, so should be the eating of all plants and animals! We must resort to eating only rocks!
If it is not right to take away a persons life, then why is it legal to take away a babies life, not even a more than 9 months alive?
Because a fetus is not always a baby.
The baby can feel too, they have life too.
But a fetus is not always a baby, so what does this argument have to do with the morality of abortion?
abortions should be made illegal because you're taking away somebody else's life.
I agree that killing a conscious human being is wrong.
Unfortunately for the pro-life argument, a fetus is not a conscious human being 100% of the pregnancy.
They might not be born yet but it's still like murder.
Correct. As long as the fetus has a measurable consciousness. Otherwise, it's not murder. If killing a fetus is murder 100% of the time no matter the stage of pregnancy, then eating plants is also murder.
Abortion is another kind of murder because embryo has also a life. Usually, people think that embryo doesn't have a life until it was born as a baby, but it is totally wrong idea. For instance, when doctors put surgical instrument into pregnancy's womb to perform abortion, the embryo in the womb perceives something wrong and moves and moves in order to avoid the instruments. In other words, the embryo always tries to live. So, we should regard the embryo as a living thing and keep in mind that abortion is not different from murder.
Even if it is made illegal people are still going to do them.Sometimes unwanted pregnancies happen or just people are not ready to have children so why have them have a child they are not going to care for.Or is something unfortunate happens like rape that person wouldn't want to have the child of their rapist.Its your body you should be able to whatever you please with it.
Hi, Karrinar. I agree with your argument somehow but I think unwanted pregnacies happened by failure of contraception or any other reasons are also the parents' fault, so they need to have a sense of responsibility. In case of unexpected poor case like rape, the government could allow the victims to do abortion. (a juristic act subject to conditions)
I believe whatever the reasons are, nothing can be more than a life.
Why would anyone think that abortions are right? An abortion is the killing of an unborn child, even if its not completely formed, the baby has everything it needs to develop and start its life.
if you had the resposibilty of getting pregnant in the first place, you should be responsible for the kid. thats just like taking a life away. i suggest having the kid and giving it up for abortion if anything.
what about rape . young girls carry no responsibility for getting impregnanted from rape or incest . and just being pregnant and giving birth can ruin the mothers life . learn to care more about the living kids and women than the clump of cells u call a life
if you had the resposibilty of getting pregnant in the first place, you should be responsible for the kid. thats just like taking a life away. i suggest having the kid and giving it up for abortion if anything.
all i have to say is yes i think it should be illegal because killing the child is wrong. even as an embryo it had a heart beat a spinal cord etc so its very much alive. yes adoption is a great choice but killing i just don't see how people can cope with it.
Yes. For one, it teaches teenagers that it is an easy way out of a difficult situation. If you feel as though you are responsible enough to have sex, you should be responsible enough to suffer the consequences. Second, if you were rapped, you could just give your child to a home that wants one. Third, if you are a teenager, and have sex without using protection, that is your own fault. It is so easy to go to the drug store and get a box of condoms. It is YOUR fault for not taking action. Fourth, abortion is murder. Murder is illegal. It's Illegal to kill polar bears but not a human? It does not matter how small or big or tall or short a person is. It is a person. Even if it is only a couple of weeks old. Fifth, Abortion puts a a toll on so many people. They feel guilty and depressed. It puts a burden on yourself and you feel so awful for killing a human being. I mean, if you have a disease that would harm the baby like AIDS or any sort of STD, that is a different story. Because you could possibly hurt the child. So, with that, abortion should be illegal.
Also, not all abortions are handled in a manner that is both sanitary and done by a professional. Abortions can be very expensive, which causes some women to seek services wherever possible. There have been quite a few cases of women dying, becoming sterile from a botched abortion, or ending up in the hospital with further complications. I don’t know if making abortions illegal would help this though. I do think that it would lessen the numbers of women who endanger their lives by looking for abortion services that aren’t up to par.
I would suggest reading Mark Crutchers book about this called Lime 5. He documents even Planned Parenthood clinics all over the country whose health department records are not even to the standard of any Vet clinic.
He also documents the deaths that happen all over the country. He gives case numbers the state where it occured and what happened in the case.
It should be illegal to take the life of your child, no matter what stage of development it is in.
However, attempting to make it illegal now isn't going to be productive, we should seek to end abortions though other means. The use of, and also the illlegalization of abortion are clear signs that a women lacks control over her body. Promoting excellent sex education, access to contraceptives and so forth is certainly a good place to start. I hope that one day it being illegal is as necessary as a law banning drinking draino.
The woman casper has control of her body...she did during the sex act itself. She willingly (except for rape) invited the penis into her space. She took the risk and everything that does with it....the possibility of getting pregnant, contracting a sexually transmitted disease. She has control and she takes the risk. It is her body. But when she gets pregnant...the life she started is separate from her. It might be growing inside her body...but it is not a part of her body like a liver or heart. The unborn has its own genetic code and every cell is its own. It has its own fingerprints. It is a separate life. Louise Brown the worlds first test tube baby was conceived in a petri dish. Did not take anything from the mother other than the mothers egg the fathers sperm. She was a separate life. The UNBORN IS NOT AN ORGAN OF THE MOTHERS BODY. So if a woman decides to terminate...she is killing that life inside her.
Our government recognizes this casper because there are laws in place that prevent a pregnant woman from being executed. If that in her womb was nothing as some morons maintain here in this abortion debate on this site...then why would this law be in place? What did the jury decide in the case of the Scott Peterson trial? He was conviced not only killing his wife...but as the courts called it......from also killing his unborn son, Connor.
We should have sex education and we do the best in the world. Kids learn about sex at school, they hear and see it on the radio, the internet the television, movies. Kids know how to get pregnant younger than ever today. Our society encourages sexual exploration and is very open when it comes to sex. Today if a young girl gets pregnant she is not isolated and sent off to some home for girls. Today if a person has a child out of wedlock....its not looked at like it was in years past. We live in a sexually promiscuous society.
Making abortion illegal would immediately save millions of lives. We would have more generations of our children..and that is not a bad thing.
Well the life she started is seperate from her, its body isn't from her body.
Its the same of more grown children as well, who are dependent on someone for survivial; its just their means of connection and who they are connected to is different. That doesn't mean that the child doesn't put some restriction on their body. Yes, termination results in death.
The inconsistenty of the laws need to change, this has alwaysed annoyed me.
We don't have the best in the world, its a joke for the most part. Our society isn't promiscuous, I know of numerous virgins; their that way mainly due to their middle class status and the fact that their main period of development was post 90s(which was a mini-rebellious time period). Every person I know who lost their virginity young had home problems, and ususally a low houshold income. Sex education should include factors that influence how risky of behavior people are willing to take, amongst other things. Truely effective sex education is very holistic and encompassing.
Well making abortion illegal may save many lives, it won't happen in the near future; so why waste the energy on it?
Of course not. It`s human rights, their own life, nobody should say anything! If they don`t need baby, for example at young age, why not to do abortion? So it`s really critical question.
That is a good point, however I wouldn't really have any knowledge of being born at under 3 months in the womb; so I dunno how to respond, but I still stand by my previous statements.
Now, precisely at what point does an ant become a viable human being? Interrupting innocent human life by destroying it is evil; squashing an ant to keep it out of your house isn't (but burning it to death w. a magnifying glass for entertainment is- prob. how a lot of abortionist doctors and their defenders got their start).
You can't immorally kill something that has no soul. Saying you can't is like saying it's wrong to kill a plant.
The only way we have to measure a soul is by measuring the consciousness. The only way we can measure the consciousness is by measuring brain activity. The only way we can watch brain activity is with machines.
Logically, therefore, a fetus doesn't have a soul until it develops a brain while in the womb. Until then, it's a soulless piece of human flesh, like a severed limb.
Except you have no proof it has a soul before it has a consciousness. Offer that proof up and I'll believe the fetus has a soul before it has a consciousness. Until then, the only proof we have of a soul is a consciousness, and a fetus doesn't possess that throughout the entire pregnancy.
That has nothing to do with this debate. And if what you say is true, and that baby is alive with a brain stem, then that means it has a brain.
If the baby has the ability to move, it has a brain. If it is responding to stimuli, it's brain stem has developed to a point where it can replace some of the functions of the normal brain mass.
Your point is moot.
You still have no proof that a fetus has a soul before it has a consciousness.
And don't try and bring up vegetable people. You won't enjoy how I debunk that.
Actually, by the reasoning laid out you don't know if a fetus has a soul if you can't measure it, but you know it does once you can watch brain activity.
You stated that it doesn't have a soul because you can not measure it. Just because you can not measure something does not necessarily mean it isn't there. I believe you meant to imply that brain activity is one and the same as having a soul.
1. Morally eating a pig is worse than abortion, pigs having far more self-awareness than that cluster of cells.
2. We know this because we have this cool thing called science. People who say it's killing a child are misinformed. They feel like it is because of bs christian smear campaigns and bogus youtube videos, but trust the doctors on this one. It's basically a tumor with no more feeling or emotion than an insect.
3. If an individual has some moral dillemma they may choose themself not to have an abortion. What others do however is absolutely none of their business.
4. It's not as if abortion has never been illegal. Making it illegal has never in the history of the world stopped an abortion.
5. Basically making abortion illegal would kill more people than it would save, leaving mothers to pursue abortions in dirty basements instead of clean doctor's offices. No surprise, christians zealously pursuing yet another social issue that would hurt more people than it would help.
6. There are way too many people in the world, and god knows christians don't do shit to help those who are already alive, so what is all of this concern for this cluster of cells?
7. Mind your own fucking business about what other people do with their own body.
8. Technically if a sperm entering the insides of a woman not resulting 9 months later in a baby is murder, god commits trillions upon trillions more murders of this type than every doctor, nurse, mother whatever on earth ever all combined. These psychos should start picketing churches with their self-righteous indignation instead of abortion clinics.
It's not self-aware or in any way conscious. I'll support this bs witch hunt christians are on about forcing women to their will old testament style when you hypocrits start caring about actual living people, already born.
Until then I'll trust in science and take the simplton nature of these self-righteous replies by you ilk all over this debate as admittance none of you are capable of putting an ounce of logical thought into the debate and you are only here to preach.
You are like talking to an idiot on this subject. You clearly do not know what science has to say about abortion. It is clear that science says a new human life starts at conception. It is not a pig, or a rock or a slug...it is a human being.
As far as a witch hunt......You assume a lot. You assume that only Christians and people of faith think abortion is wrong. That shows your ignorance because many people who don't fit this mold work and stand up for the unborn. Science is clear on this...and one can debate abortion without even bringing religion into it. You don't get that because you hate people of faith so much it clouds your thinking on everything. Your nihilistic worldview is sad and empty...that shows in most your posts. You can't debate usually without throwing profanity around and demeaning the person you are debating. It's obviously all ya got.
Most people who actually get up off the sofa and do something to end this slaughter also work with organizations like CPC. You wouldnt know what that is.....its Crisis Pregnancy Centers. I mean why would you know what CPC is all about? LOL
The thing is.......you and your ilk who sit and do nothing for anyone but yourself think the people who are against abortion should do everything for everyone.
This is not about preaching...this is about right and wrong. And IMO you are wrong, your worldview is wrong...I think you are the enemy within that is destroying our country. Your liberal and selfcentered approach to life is an assault on everything good in the world. Your pro-view on the slaughter that is happening and your defense of even slaughtering third term babies is inhumane..I can only wonder what other things you condone. People like you give me the will and the strength to go on...Your worldview is so disgusting to anyone with a heart that...it makes me want to go out and do more....and with that said...I plan to do so.
Not in the UK: Technically; the 'baby' (you should really be calling it a foetus because it's only a baby when it's born) has NO RIGHTS whatsoever and is not considered a person.
Some rights are natural, no legislative body can justly deny them or grant itself credit for creating them.
One could make an argument that natural rights are not universal to all humans, and that it is only those who live long enough to forcefully express there desires, their rights, that make them natural. However, that suggests that there already is a natural desire for them that makes them natural, ie they are already natural before expressed, so it is more proper to call the tendency of humanity to fight and strive for these desires the actual natural thing, and the most harmonious society the one that allows for the attainment of them. Whether or not one wishes to honor the natural tendencies of the extremely young, likely depends on if they are considered part of society. In the UK, it seems they are not but is this an accurate position to take?
What about poor families? if they are want child but they cannot give to him a happy life...they just create a new human who will be poor and have little chance to achive goals or maybe something like this.
I do not believe in killing but... there is a flaw in not having abortions. The world is over populated as is, so more people will not solve that problem. Plus, teens get pregnant and wont be able to provide the best possible life for their children, and are afraid to put them up for adoptions. So no life at all or a hard one.
I am against abortion for unwanted pregnancies. However, I am against making it illegal. Making abortion illegal won't stop abortions, it will cause MORE deaths with "backyard abortions" that go wrong. The best way to reduce abortions is through education and easing the adoption process. Other measures could include the provision of free contraceptives.
Another way that anti-abortionists are causing more harm than good is by putting the life of the unborn baby before the life of the mother. In my opinion, the mother comes first.
This in over ten years of work in this business is the dumbest response I have ever heard...that and the unborn is not really a human being.
What is it killing...a turtle, a lion, an orange growing on a tree? LOL
The baby never existed? What exists then?
I would suggest casper doing some SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH ON THIS BECAUSE HE SCIENCE SAYS AT THE MOMENT OF CONCEPTION IT IS SOMETHING...THAT SOMETHING IS A NEW HUMAN LIFE.
The fetus is eccepted like a person and nobody have rights to kill him. Of cause there some exception like rape, when the woman need to abort. In other situations it must be banned. I have strongly think that the abortion should be illegal.
"Baby" is a general term, its unquestionable that a human being is killed during an abortion, and well the term "baby" is technically incorrect; its a terrible argument to play semantic games.
Also, don't bring up "but that human being isn't a human person", its the same as bringing up "but the baby has a soul!", There is only two significant differences between those arguments; and they both have the same flaws.
It's clear that there are completely different moral views on this subject - and it is a fairly even split, if not more people (not necessarily on this website) who think it shouldn't be made illegal; therefore, the people who think it is wrong should just not have abortions. There is no need to force people who believe differently to you to abide by your rules and beliefs cough the crusades and every other war based on religion cough
Speaking as a scientist though, I do not have a completely neutral viewpoint - I think that abortion is absolutely fine morally - up to a certain point in the pregnancy. (Even after the 24 week legal limit) People say that the foetuses can feel pain - so can many animals. The difference between a foetus and an animal is just the potential for intelligence. People have sex every day - this potential isn't exactly lacking. When a child is born and later when it can learn is when I personally consider it a true human being. I see a foetus'/baby's/child's development in 3 stages:
1. When it is just a functional group of cells - perhaps it can feel pain
2. When it is able to survive outside the womb without any machines or unnatural human intervention (obviously breast feeding is natural human intervention)
3. When it is able to learn and become a true human being with our amazing characteristics such as logical thinking (some people on this debate seem never have developed that) and compassion for others (not just instinctive).
Of course there are different moral positions...one says killing a living human being is wrong...one says it should be acceptable.
We are a nation of laws...and the people who make them. And you are right there are two camps. We have the right in America to fight for what we believe is right. That is what I am doing.
You say if you don't want abortion don't get one so but out. Should all the men leave this conversation because they are not female and should have no opinion? Are you a male or female? If your a male......I would invite you to leave this has nothing to do with you.
Oh here we go the crusades.....Christianity. This site seems to be full of hateful people...wow. They hate Christians and blame everything on them. Well I am not leaving.
So you are a scientist? LOL Wow. Then you know that when the pro-abort side says the life in the womb is human is wrong. You also know that life starts at conception, right? You know that the heart starts beating around twenty days then don't you?
So you condone the killing of a living human life in the womb. What you do however is to try to soften the blow and make yourself feel more moral about this killing...by saying that morally its wrong then to kill after a certain time...when the unborn just instantly becomes human and worth saving. When is this time exactly could you pin point it...or doesn't it matter? So you think a woman should have the say....then you tell her she shouldnt have a say.....based on YOUR OPINION of when live then is valuable.
My niece was born at 23 1/2 months. She was 1 pound when she was born. She was Valedictorian of her high school class and she now attends a university studying to be a doctor. It was tough but she made it and lived. And you think it would have been morally right to abort her.
There is nothing potential about the life in the womb. There is nothing potential about a newborn...it is a newborn. There is nothing potential about a toddler......it will one day become an adult if it isn't killed, or dies a natural death.
Your view is no more scientific than a barnyard animal who lacks a college degree.
Why do you bring up animals? Are you one of those whackos who think an animals life equals that of a human beings? A human being is just that...its DNA says human. That is scientific, that is a fact. A person who is brain dead, a person in a coma.....is still a human being. You consider mentally challenged people inferior don't you?
I know this......and you would to if you were a real scientist. When a women is pregnant she can feel the baby move. She can sometimes get the baby to move by pushing on her stomach. So if they can feel pressure enough to move...then how can you say they couldnt feel pain?
Let me tell you something you might not know. No newborn could survive on its own without help. A newborn does not have the mental or physical capacity to do it. Many babies need to spend more time in the hospital under medical care. Many are sent home with heart monitoring machines.
IMO your thinking is illogical and immoral and your position does not hang together scientifically.....
What makes you a scientist......? Let me guess.....you bought yourself a laboratory set at Toys R US? LOL
The same things which make it wrong to kill some retarded humans, a young child, some elders, and so forth; Principles evolved though thousands of years of human development.
Its murder! Babies are people, not animals. I am not saying that killing animals is right, but if we allow abortions, doesn't that make murder legal too?
It is technically alive at conception, life never ended from the creation and merger of the haploids, to the birth of the child assuming no still births or abortions took place. Perhaps you mean a more general meaning to the term alive than the technical one?
It isn't smart to assume that the world will support everyone's childish dreams. Keep expanding until we die off by the thousands due to overpopulation. Just the facts.
So which one of you girls wants to have my abortion?
I do not believe people should be allowed to reproduce. Children are very expensive for society. People should have a proven record of income and a stable life in order to bring a child into the world. Otherwise, abortion should be forced by the state.
Abortion should not be illegal because although the child may have been conceived it is still technically part of the mother and sometimes due to medical reasons the conceived child may need to be removed due to medical reasons that could cause sickness or other health dis functions. Abortion should only be legal if it poses serious threat to both mother or conceived child, but not illegal all together.
No that is a life your ending it should be just as bad as murder. I can understand that you don't want a baby you should have been more careful.Nothing should have to die for your mistake.And if you were raped or something put it up for adoption. I don't understand what sick person came up with killing a baby. What if your mom had an abortion then you wound not even be arguing with me.
sometimes accidents happen and those people shouldn't be having children if you look at it that way, sometimes a person is alone or sick or cant afford a child really you have to look and the bad first to realize the good and away the world is already over populated children that are not meant to happen don't by the way i do not believe in any sort of religion.
If the mother can die by having her baby then she has the right to "take care' of it. The mother should have to risk her life just to have a baby. Her life is important as is the baby's. a child needs its family and her mom is the only one there, but is also taking a risk to her life. Who is going to take care of the child? Should the child just have no memories of her mother? Then it is most likely that the child would have the same genetic disease.
No deffinately not. what happens if your a teenager or someone who is not ready for a child? you would not have enough money to support them and you wouldnt know how to look after them properly, in short you would totally screw up your life and most importantly THEIRS. in addition there are many women who die from child birth some people just arent built for it.
i think it shud be made legal since for many cases of rape where the girl gets pregnant and she has to already live with the tradegy of being rape plus having to see a child everyday as a result of dat. this will jus make life much more harder and emotional for her since every glimpse of that child reminds her of that tradegy... it is quite heartbreaking
many persons are not even financially prepared for a child.. yes dey shud pay for their slackness but is teaching dem a lesson worth suffering a child for their life... no it isnt!!! the emotional after effect is part payment for the girl already
Also, the woman could die in childbirth- if abortion was illegal she'd be facing excrutiating pain and possibly death, for an accident/rape/being drunk.
Does a woman have the right to an abortion under the U.S. Constitution? If someone is a strict constructionist who interprets the Constitution word for word, the sanction for abortion is given under the Fourteenth Amendment.
The Fourteenth Amendment of our U.S. Constitution defines a citizen “a citizen” at birth. If a woman is carrying a fetus in the womb, the U.S. Constitution does not designate the fetus as “a citizen.” It would take an amendment to the U.S. Constitution to declare a fetus a citizen. You have to be born in order to be recognized as a citizen. Therefore, a woman does have the right to choose. A fetus inside the womb is not designated as a citizen according to the U.S. Constitution so by default is not entitled to life, liberty, or prosperity. You have to be born in order to be endowed with those privileges. To conclude, neither the Federal government nor any of the States can deny a woman the right to choose.
If abortion is murder, abortion would have been terminated years ago due to the cruel and unusual punishment clause under the Eighth Amendment. Again, proof that a fetus is not recognized as a citizen of the United States of America.
if u dont like abortions dont get one . if u think they are wrong, dont get one .if u honestly think that just because you dont like it means that no one can get one, grow up . realize that your opinion isnt relevant enought to be pushed on all women and girls in america .