No problem!! :-)

Sure the big bang theory makes a lot of sense, it truly does. but what if there really is something bigger out there. to have such a force to create the big bang theory, there would have had to be something out there to create the big force, surely.

my vote is god purely because sometimes, you need to think outside the square you live in right?? the big bang theory is purely scientific evidence. For sure science has gone a long way but they are trying to prove that the atmosphere created the big bang theory because the more they "research" the more money they get out of the findings, correct?

I realize what you are saying in that we have left the square of the "god did it" rhetoric because of the theory that we have today, but then there is even bigger square outside of that proving the existence of God. Science will never be able to explain where all of the matter and energy in the universe and the big bang came from. Something cannot come from nothing. That is my reason for believing in creationism. I don't believed it happened as described exactly as it is in the Bible, but I believe in the message that the story was trying to get across: that God created the world, the universe, and humanity, in one way or another.

There is no absolute scientific proof to back up the BB Theory and there NEVER will be. Media slants things the way they like it just to remove the religious aspect. They just are too stubborn to have such a simple explanation. It like they NEED science just to prove things that cant be proved. NO ONE honestly knows, so if know one knows, how can you even attempt to prove by science? Its the work of God.

I really don't think that I am merely assuming that the universe is finite in time. A quick google search should confirm that for you.

You say that the Big Bang obviously had a cause, and I agree. That is the central tenet of my argument. When astronomers and astrophysicists speak of the big bang, they are speaking about the beginning of the universe. So you are right in saying that the Big Bang does not equal the universe. But you are assuming that something physical , the singularity, existed prior to the beginning of matter. That is simply absurd.

In cases like this, logic and the laws of logic are all we have to talk about the beginning of time, space and matter. Science is blind prior to t=0.

Again, I am not merely assuming God's timelessness, it is established by the arguments. The fact that the universe is finite in time is well established in scientific literature. Again, these are not assumptions. And you labeling them assumptions does nothing to reduce their truth value.

Just because he created the Big Bang and is the creator does not mean he has to control everything. He provided the world to eventually have some species like humans, who can control the world on their own.

Its obvious that God created the world,but yet some people think that it was the big bang-but did they ever think that God created the big bang so it could create the world so really God was behind all this in the first place!!!????????

Its obvious that God created the world,but yet some people think that it was the big bang-but did they ever think that God created the big bang so it could create the world so really God was behind all this in the first place!!!????????

Wouldn't you like to think that you were created for a reason. I find that majority of people would like to think so. To me the big bang theory is the equivalent of giving a monkey a bag with a bunch of pieces parts and telling him to shake it, the finished product a watch!!! No thats not going to happen!!! Sorry if you thought it would, hey you can keep on trying but your monkey will probably get mad and start flinging poop at you. Anyway, God created everything! It was created by Him and for His pleasure. If you choose not to believe this thats cool, but HELL is also a very real place! Think about it, heaven or hell? Which would you rather be in for eternity?

the big bang theory is purely scientific evidence. For sure science has gone a long way but they are trying to prove that the atmosphere created the big bang theory because the more they "research" the more money they get out of the findings, correct?

I'll kill two birds with one stone. God created the big bang. BAM!

As an agnostic, I must say, we do not know. But it is my belief that God got bored one day and decided to create matter. And when he did, it resulted in a big bang that resulted in the universe.

the big bang happend but didnt CREATE the world! because to cause the bb there has to be a greater power/force out there!

if the big bang created the earth how did people appear???

if the big bang thing happened then who created the thing that caused the big bang.someone must have created the thing where it started.it could not have just one day appeared there and wallaa there it happened.everything starts somewhere.it had to be created.so somewhere along the line scientist will end up where our beliefs come in.

alot of the scientist dont have concrete info.If you read their books and tv programs it is always Maybe this happened or maybe that.and everytime someone else come change there theory and prove them wrong then they go with someone elses so call discovery.i think they are confuse.The Quraan explain stuff that scientist only came to figure out now.Scientist should studdy the Quraan then they will get all the answers they looking for.

It doesn't matter if the universe is infinite or not. I'm just saying: How did it begin? There is no explanation other than God.

It would be God because the bible said so and he has the power to do anything...

Firstly, why not believe that god created the big bang, No one gives into the bullshit of seven days,

Secondly, this is far fetched, but if you have seen harry potter 3/prisoner of Azkaban or back to the future, you might understand, God created the big bang, which created himself, and he went back in time and created the big bang thus creating himself to create another self in a countinuous round of time, i'm babbling, BYE

We should call the possible forces beyond our universe what they are: possible forces beyond our universe. If we want to talk about a religion specific deity, then we should go ahead and use the word God. Using the terms interchangeably will lead to confusion.

As for open mindedness, I think pretty much all atheists are open to the idea of God, we just see no adequate justification for that belief. Also, it's kind of ridiculous to ask people to be open minded about a belief that is inherently irrational.

I believe, quite strongly, that God exists. Therefore I must conclude that He created the universe. However, I also consider myself a student of science and must accept the evidence for an event that has caused the universe to expand infinitely from a single point. These two beliefs are not in any way in opposition to one another if one reaches the logical conclusion that the Old Testament is a collection of myths, each of which contains a kernel of truth but have been changed over possibly thousands of years by oral retelling. By doing so, we can then hypothesize (since the existence of God cannot be proven) that God was the driving force behind the Big Bang and is therefore responsible for the creation of the universe.

Well I liked it thief

Here is where I think we agree...

-the big bang happened, likely around 14 billion years ago.

-the Big Bang had something profound to do with the universe as we know and can measure it today.

-time, space and matter are properties of the universe

-the conditions prior to t=0 are not detectable through the scientific method or direct observation

Where we disagree...

-whether or not anything existed prior to the big bang

-whether or not the universe is or could be eternal

-whether or not we can induce logically what could or could not have happened prior to the big bang.

Is that a fair assessment so far? Would you add anything?

God didn't begin to exist without cause. The premiss is that everything that BEGINS to exist has a cause for its existence.

God's begininglessness is not assumed by the argument, it is established by it.

Examples of things that begin to exist without cause, please...(not God as established by my arguments)...under your view, this should happen all the time.

The universe can't be infinite in the past because an infinite regress of cause and effect is an actually infinite set of events. Any mathemetician knows that an actually infinite set of anything is impossible. Therefore an eternal universe is impossible. This is not speculation.

Time and matter came into existence at the same moment. Consult Einstein.

I already told you about an impersonal set of mechanical causes. Are you seriously talking about a personal set of mechanical causes?? Read my arguments carefully.

You have done nothing to show that my premisses are faulty.

To Kuklapolitan: your argument towards this debate is very much appreciated. Your argument states nothing but what you absolutely believe. it states the truth. that is what this debate is all about

When people hear the word "God" they assume personal god. Jesus or Allah or some such.

When I talk about any unknowable forces that could hypothetically exist beyond our universe, I don't want people confusing that with the biblical God.

Those aren't logical flaws or assumptions my friend.

"Everything that begins to exist has a cause for its existence"

It is absurd to deny that something that begins to exist can do so without a cause. Please provide some examples of things that have begun to exist without cause. (Obviously you can't say the universe because that is exactly what is up for debate here.) Maybe you have a horse that began to exist without cause (no parents, no magician, no illusionists...it just appeared in your living room while you were trying to watch TV.) Maybe a car? Your only response to my premiss is to say "It could have existed forever", or "It couldhave been a previous universe." You posit fanciful imaginary scenarios to try and get around the fact that my premiss is plainly true.

"It must be immaterial because it existed in the absence of all matter."

How is this an assumption? We cannot talk about 'before the universe' because time and matter came into existence at the same moment. If the cause of the universe existed without the universe, as it must have because the universe could not cause itself, then the cause of the universe existed in the absolute absence of matter. Something that exists in the absence of matter is necessarily immaterial.

Same goes for the 'timelessness' of the cause.

It must be personal...

We know this because an impersonal set of mechanical causes could not exist without their resulting effect. If this were the case, then the universe would have always existed, which is mathematically impossible as it would constitute an infinite regress of cause and effect.

Enormously powerful...you seem to agree, although you don't want to.

Why am I comfortable with an eternal God but not an eternal universe? As I mentioned previously, the physical universe, if it existed eternally, would constitute an eternal regress of cause and effect. This is mathematically impossible as it lead to several contradictory conclusions, all of which must be true, but some of which are mutually exclusive. An eternal, immaterial, timeless being is certainly logically plausible as established by my arguments previously.

The plain science says that the universe had a beginning in the finite past. This fact is just not up for debate among serious scientists. Your oscillating universe idea was debunked long ago, you should drop that one from your list of rebuttals.

Sorry xaeon, but your comments do not demonstrate that my premisses are flawed. You seem to think that we can only know things that we can detect empirically. This is far from the truth. There are many things that we know that are impossible to detect empirically, things like the laws of logic ('A' cannot be 'Not A'). The things that we know about what could have existed without the universe are well established by the laws of logic.

In my opinion, God created the big bang, because to even have a "big bang" there has to be something greater out there. It just seems to make more sense to me to have a God that created this rather than just believing that something turned up from nothing.

I explain why this is not the case in my response to xaeon above.

God created the Big Bang (possibly)...

Hello I am new to createdebate. Nice to meet you all. I will argue against the big bang theory if I may. Well sort of. Sure the universe could have started as a tiny dense ball that exploded. I don't have a problem with that. But what of the space around the tiny dense ball? After all, the tiny dense ball is the origin of time and space. How can you have time and space surrounding the tiny dense ball if the origin for time and space is within the tiny dense ball? Where can you find any room to explode? Something has to pre-exist time and space to create it. Something has to be timeless and spaceless. I simply ask you to think about time and space creation without getting caught in an infinite logical loop.

I'm in primary school just to make sure u know!

Firstly, I believe that God has made the Earth in 7 days!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My reasons are that the Bible and the Q'uran say's that God said let there be light! Because we'r talking about the Q'uran I just want to say im muslim! back to my conversation... Against this argument scientists say (such as Charles Darwin or Einstein) That there was this huge powerful explosion which made the Earth, moon and sun. As a contribution, I feel that God blew life into humans against this argument once again... Scientist believe (such as bla bla!!) That humans have evolved. But we're talking about the creation of the world, so I just want to say that there must of been something behind this huge force and that can only be GOD understood!!!

Thank you for reading! I hope you've enjoyed

and learned something with my argument

NO QUESTIONS THANK YOU!!!

I'm in primary school just to make sure u know!

Firstly, I believe that God has made the Earth in 7 days!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My reasons are that the Bible and the Q'uran say's that God said let there be light! Because we'r talking about the Q'uran I just want to say im muslim! back to my conversation... Against this argument scientists say (such as Charles Darwin or Einstein) That there was this huge powerful explosion which made the Earth, moon and sun. As a contribution, I feel that God blew life into humans against this argument once again... Scientist believe (such as bla bla!!) That humans have evolved. But we're talking about the creation of the world, so I just want to say that there must of been something behind this huge force and that can only be GOD understood!!!

Thank you for reading! I hope you've enjoyed

and learned something with my argument

NO QUESTIONS THANK YOU!!!

I'm in primary school just to make sure u know!

Firstly, I believe that God has made the Earth in 7 days!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My reasons are that the Bible and the Q'uran say's that God said let there be light! Because we'r talking about the Q'uran I just want to say im muslim! back to my conversation... Against this argument scientists say (such as Charles Darwin or Einstein) That there was this huge powerful explosion which made the Earth, moon and sun. As a contribution, I feel that God blew life into humans against this argument once again... Scientist believe (such as bla bla!!) That humans have evolved. But we're talking about the creation fo the world, so I just want to say that there must of been something behind this huge force and that can only be GOD understood!!!

Thank you for reading! I hope you've enjoyed

and learned something with my argument

NO QUESTIONS THANK YOU!!!

I cannot prove either but my belief is that God created the world and everything in it. The scientific theory speaks to the universe but not the things contained within it. Man is a remarkable and complex creature as is most every other thing that roams the earth. I cannot believe the Big Bang theory created all we have. In the end it doesn't really matter who or what created any of it. What matters is what we do with what is given us.

The controversy about the source of the world's creation has for long been a subject of argument amidst people of different scholars. Many, especially those with religious affiliation are always in support of God as the creator while non- religious individuals hold it that the world is as result of many highly complex interactions that resulted as a result of mere coincidence.

The present world is so complex and uteerly impossible to have been conceived out of mere coincidence hence the only meaningful explanation so far, is that of being the handiwork of God, substantiated by the Bible which has for long been reliable standing the tests of time, man and science

Pretty much spot on. I would hasten to add that some of the points are a little simple, and I am hesitant to completely agree with them. I'll just add some more to those points below to make my stance, hopefully, clearer.

"time, space and matter are properties of the universe"

They are indeed properties of the universe, but may or may not also be properties of any past universes, any possible multiverses, etc, etc. Remember that accepting time as only a property of this universe, as you seem to be saying, makes it difficult for me to accept your infinite cause and effect argument, as to talk about infinity would require there to be a concept of time. Outside of the bounds of this universe you cannot confidently speak of such things, as to do so would be an assumption.

"the conditions prior to t=0 are not detectable through the scientific method or direct observation"

I would like to add currently to this sentence. It may be possible in the future with technological and scientific advances to actually investigate the conditions of t<=0. We simply don't know yet.

"whether or not anything existed prior to the big bang"

I'm comfortable to say that, yes, we can not know anything about t<=0. We can't even accurately say whether a t<0 even did or could have existed.

"whether or not we can induce logically what could or could not have happened prior to the big bang."

Again, I agree with this point to a degree. We can certainly have a pop at what seems most logical, but to call it "deducing" would give it more significance that it deserves. I believe the concepts required to understand and deal with t<=0 are currently inconceivable.

Pretty much overall though, a fair assesment of where we agree and disagree.

Yeah, it's better not to ask questions when you believe in God. They don't like that very much.

I'll have to dig up some old textbooks on this one, but I do not believe that the big bang is attributed to man, which is why the universe has not yet overtaken its intended budget.

Are you trying to make christians sound stupid?

Wow, you're right Pyg. I never thought of it that way. Using science to try and figure stuff out - leading to the Big Bang theory - that's preschool shit. Not like the big magic daddy in the sky theory at all. You must be some kind of intellectual, with your well founded opinions and what not. I feel so inadequate replying to one such as yourself...