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1 point

There's a lot of historic evidence if you do some research: about 20 sites noted in the Bible have been excavated and confirmed in archeological digs, along with documentation from non-biblical resources from Greek and Roman historians of Jesus' existence. Just do some searching (they're too long to list here), but it's there.

I don't deny at all people of other religions may very much believe in their faith. What I've said is, throughout numerous debates, is that I've done my homework from the time I was an atheist, studied the world religions and what other religions are missing is consistency in creation and faith and reason. I have not found this to be so with Christianity.

That is an excellent question about the Native Americans. I am part Indian. As I said, God reveals himself to all in numerous ways. The Bible says "all have sinned" (Rom 3:23). Native Americans were involved in sinful practices long before the white man came along, as was the white man long before coming to America. Furthermore, Native culture is loaded with occult beliefs and practices, including the worship of rocks, trees and sky and of the spirits that allegedly live in these things: worship of the creation instead of the Creator. And if they could worship these things, they could have worshipped Him in faith. And many have and do today. But don't misunderstand: God needs to open our spirit to be able to respond to the gospel. There won't be a single person eternally separated from God ("damned") who can say "I really wanted to be saved but wasn't given the chance". God is an all-knowing, loving and just God. Visit www.h-net.org/~west/threads/disc-smallpox.html for further information on the possible smallpox spread by Europeans to Indians via infected blankets. Since I cannot possibly know for sure without having been there if the disease was spread intentionally by the white man to hurt Indians (there are differing accounts), I cannot judge whether Amherst's claim is true or not. But know this: God will not be fooled. Jesus did not come out of hate, but out of love. If people used His name to intentionally cause their suffering or deaths, they would be judged accordingly. Jesus says, “Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Not everyone that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? And in thy name have cast out devils? And in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I NEVER KNEW YOU: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” (Matt 7:15-23).

There are saved Protestants and unsaved Protestants, saved Catholics and unsaved Catholics, saved Baptists and unsaved Baptists, etc. (see above). All basically adhere to the Nicene Creed and respect and love one another. If a Christian's faith in God through the Nicene Creed's basic tenants is genuine, then they will see the face of God. If, according to the Bible, people add to the Bible or attempt to rewrite it or redefine its fundamental principles (of which most of the Christian denominations do agree on), then they do not actually believe in the God of the Bible—then they have created their own god (idolatry).

One (just one) of Christianity's goals is to make people like Christ, who was, by all recorded accounts, the most moral person that ever walked the planet. However, as I've pointed out a number of times, man is fallen, and there is evil in the world. Christians are just as susceptible to it as non-believers. Please, please don't write off Christianity because of hate groups like the KuKluxKlan or Fred Phelps group—neither of whom understand the Gospel as displayed by their fruits. Writing authentic Christianity off because of horrible actions by groups like those is like saying some white men have murdered people, therefore all white men are murderers, or some black men robbed a grocery store, therefore all blacks are thieves. Which is obviously illogical and untrue. Those kinds of groups do not represent me or most Christians.

I'm sorry you think my view of the world is simplistic. I don't condemn atheists—I once was one, but I was apparently drawn by the Spirit and realized that atheism was even more simplistic and without proof, and I am entitled to my beliefs as much as you are.

I have answered your questions, but I'm pulling out for good. I got hurt last night by all the hateful responses, and God doesn't want that. He doesn't want me to be hurt or to hurt others in response—some of my reactions, no matter what the provocation, weren't cool. I came to this site because I accidentally came across it one day and noticed many questions on God with replies that revealed many had been misinformed or incorrectly taught about Christianity. I've tried to directly answer the question of a debate as fairly and respectfully as I could, but it's become apparent that this site is more interested in hateful cyber-bullying rather than a respectful exchange of thoughts or follow the rules of fair debate. And if atheists read this and it makes them feel good about themselves to do that to someone or feel no shame, then I believe I've proved not only my point for leaving but for the need for God. But I encourage all the atheists on this site to keep asking questions (there's a reason "Doubting" Thomas was one of the twelve apostles!), but I would also advise listening and hearing others out with respect. And if you TRULY want to know about God, it's always best to go directly to the source. Peace.

1 point

I must remember that I'm arguing with children. Sorry if it's difficult for you to understand. Making fun of black people is wrong. Is that clear enough for you? Most Americans take great offense at that. Clear enough? Some of us were taught to respect our presidents and elders—clearly your parents haven't gotten to that yet. If I can be of any more help in your upbringing, HGrey, Vanguard of Immaturity, just let me know! :)

1 point

I must remember that I'm arguing with children. Sorry if it's difficult for you to understand. Making fun of black people is wrong. Is that clear enough for you? Most Americans take great offense at that. Clear enough? Some of us were taught to respect our presidents and elders—clearly your parents haven't gotten to that yet. If I can be of any more help in your upbringing, HGrey, Vanguard of Immaturity, just let me know! :)

1 point

Because, in accordance with your very own words in your other rebuttal, if someone believes in a fairy tale, they're nuts, right? They're not worth treating with respect. SO—if Jesus not only believes in God, but believes He IS God, well, he'd be the king of the schizophrenics—why would anyone say, "Yeh, he's pretty great, but he's not God."????? You either believe all of it, or none of it.

Again,

“Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.”

I needed to be reminded of this.

2 points

Wow, 1/3 of the world is schizophrenic, and you're a sociopath with no conscience? Nah. You don't want to believe, fine. I was answering someone else's debate question with my viewpoint as a believer.

Again...

“Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.”

Must, must get this through my head. Thanks for the reminder!

1 point

“Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.”

Must, must obey God and get that through my head! Thank you for that reminder.

0 points

Thanks for proving me right.

Peace!

2 points

Hey "Hostile"—How's it going? Very well, I hope.

You're absolutely right on your first point. You can't believe in God "just in case"... He won't be mocked or fooled.

Gosh, I'd hate to worship a flying spaghetti monster, wouldn't you? All that sauce... Oye. Your faith in God wouldn't be wrong, believe me. The Holy Bible is not based on evidence but is backed by evidence, and is an historic book of eyewitness testimonies and fulfilled prophecies and is based on reason. Hinduism and Buddhism, are based on an experiential enjoyment or satisfaction with the text or gods they offer. They do not point to a consistent creator or faith. This is why faith in Egyptian and Mayan gods passed away. Islam took its text from the Bible, said "Jesus is great, but He's not God" (an illogical argument), "we like Mohammed better" and altered it to suit themselves, something strictly forbidden by the very Bible they took from? Therefore, Mohammed was a false prophet. And Judaism is where Christianity stems from—the two are forever tied to one another.

How can one be truly good and deny the creator of his very life? How can God be selfish if He gave you life? Selfishness to me, seems to be the one who lacks respect or gratitude to the one who gives him everything. Would your mother be considered self-centered if you disowned her and wouldn't acknowledge her existence but still had the audacity to want to use her house?

God makes Himself known to all—through eyewitness testimony, His word (which has been distributed to just about every tribe, nation, and culture in the world through missionaries for just this purpose), through revelation, through testimony, and through dreams and visions and miracles... All will be shown a way to Him.

If one believes in Him, and is an "_sshole"—then that person either needs to get help from a pastor or psychologist, or ask his/herself if he/she TRULY believes. If one wants to, they can repent. If one prefers being an "_sshole," then that person has made his/her choice.

Believing in God does help you follow "the rules" better if one is actually following Christ's example, but people do fall short, and all men, not just unbelievers, are guilty of sinning.

1 point

There is. And every knee will bow before Him for judgment. Those who believe in Him will be judged differently than those who don't. When I pray to God, He in fact sees Jesus Christ standing in for me. He will see Jesus' blood. Jesus will then judge my deeds in terms of rewards after I pass—some shall receive many rewards, some shall receive fewer, but all will be saved. Unbelievers, if persistent in their unbelief and unrepentant, will not see God. That is their final judgment. It's funny that atheists claim this as punishment (which is how I, a believer, do see it), but for the atheist, this is exactly what they want—they don't want or have any need of a "God," so why would they care if they're eternally separated from Him (which is what Hell actually is)? God gives them what they want.

Plus a note: What is "good" to mankind is not the same as what is "good" to God. He's so good and so loving and so pure and so wise and so powerful, our best efforts at even trying to attain these things are "but filthy rags to Him." The only way He can look upon us is if He sees His son in our place, since His son is, was, and will always be, not just good, but perfection. Non-believers can do "good" or "nice" things—this does not make them unspoiled, perfect, obedient, or ample in true goodness. And, as I've said, believers, too, can be nice and charitable and whatnot, but without a genuine faith in Christ, this does not make them good.

0 points

Well, first, to answer your question: Yes, believing in God is worth it. But you must know, that faith in God does not mean that you are perfect, or that you will be considered "good" by people (in fact, many will despise you and call you intolerant out of their intolerance), or that your life will somehow be void of suffering or the traps of sin and temptations of life. It's not easy sometimes, but is most definitely worth it.

The benefits are: You are adopted into the family of God and our now considered His child. How awesome is that?! It's one thing to have cool parents on earth or wealth or great friends—but these shall all pass away or come and go. He—GOD (think about that)—will always be with me and for me, no matter what trials I go through in this life! Secondly, by accepting His son as our Savior we are instilled with the Holy Spirit, which then guides us when we don't know what to do, convicts us when we're wrong so we will know truth from lies, and transforms us to be the kind of person we all really want to be but could never seem to do or be on our own, like His son, Jesus. But you can't believe "just in case" or "even if there is no God"—that would actually be unbelief, besides God won't be fooled or mocked. One must truly believe in Him to receive the benefits. Oh and I forgot a biggie: we get to live eternally with Him and Jesus and all the other saints in Heaven after we pass!

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