What in the shit shilling balls billing taint-bulge are you saying, and why did i t necessitate replying to an ancient thread and reminding me of this shitty website.

*edit: soz I was cranky when I posted this, you seem like an alright peraon, I'd just forgotten how thick-headed and braindead a lot of the community here was until I saw the notification e-mail for your comment

Aighty so here's a rough summary of the arguments you've made, please let me know if I've misunderstood/missed any

1. Not having a mother and father to raise a child will harm the child by pushing them to seek a family environment in unhealthy settings (such as gangs), and inhibiting their education

2. It is better to keep a marriage going for the children than it is to divorce

3. Welfare payments for single mothers hurt society

So, points 1&2;. I didn't have a father figure, and my mum spent the first six or seven years of my life on welfare. I wasn't wasn't pushed to joining a gang and (not to toot my own horn) did pretty well in school. Conversely, a good friend of mine whose parents married when the woman fell pregnant despite many problems between them was, to put it crudely, fucked up by it all. Dropped out of school, drug use, the whole shebang. Really messed up his world-view.

Perhaps the "mother+father" formula you're using as the basis for a healthy family unit isn't complete; maybe it's more complicated than that. Maybe raising an actual human being can't be boiled down to a simple checklist. If that's the case, then is it really fair to say we should shame people based on the makeup of their family environment? Why not shame them on the results of their parenting style?

point 3. this ones odd. What would you rather we do in situations with single mothers who can't get employment that allows them to raise their children? I get that you think people are too dependent on welfare, but do you really think society would improve by shaming people for trying to raise their children?

When I say "be held accountable" I don't mean that we should be punished or feel awful because of the failings of our ancestry, I'm saying that we are obligated to fix the remaining issues because we're the ones getting benefits from it.

I really don't know much about this topic, and it's very much something that requires background knowledge, but I'm gonna go for Sri Srinivasan. Partly because from what I've seen of some of the 'states news programs, some of the presenters really stumble about on any slightly complex names, and I'd love to see what they did with Sri Srinivasan.

Also, I think it's important to have at least one person representing "big business", though if the rest of the supreme court judges are already like that then maybe not the best idea.

Wait okay I wanna clarify something here; I agree with you that light skin people aren't inherently smarter than darker skinned people. Sorry, I should have made that clearer.

What I'm taking issue with is that your conclusion was reached unfairly. You don't base something like that on personal experience. You can base it on the absence of any reasonable and supported arguments to support the notion, but you can't logically just say "Well I haven't seen that, so no".

I'm glad you're seeing my overall point, but one quick extra note:

I don't like how that insinuates the idea that it is some sort of crime and white people should be held accountable

The crime here is slavery, and being held accountable means ensuring we work on eradicating the effects of it.

Okay, so more divorces are happening now than used to happen. On the other hand, we've also been increasing our understanding of science and our medical and technical fields massively during the past thirty or forty years.

Higher divorce rates aren't inherently bad, FromWithin. Sure if they were leading to actual harm to society I'd agree, but I don't see how they are. Society is improving; we're getting better and better every day. There are mistakes along the way (expensive and pointless wars, adopting unsafe new technology, for example), but we're doing better now than we ever have before.

You say we don't shame those who make immoral choices, like getting a divorce. I might not be exactly the demographic you're targeting here, but I'm personally pleased as all shit that my mum and dad got a divorce. My upbringing was better for it.

SaintNow vs. FromWithin jelly wrestling? I'd pay money to not see that

There are actually laws in place that provide those things to minorities (fairly or not). So the point doesn't really hold up.

Sorry I wasn't clear; you have likely received these things due to your ancestry. Black people are less likely to receive them, again, due to their ancestry.

You really overestimate white privilege in our society

Or you underestimate it

On an interpersonal level...no reason to feel guilty about it

I made this point elsewhere, but this "white guilt" thing is a misleading name, I believe. Sure there are some people out there who are all "Ohhhh woe is me, I'm a White Person and so I'm directly to blame for slavery, waaaaaaah" (not to get off-topic, but that sort of indulgent self-hatred really reminds me of the church congregation I grew up with).

That sort of interpretation of white guilt is certainly one option, but I think a far more reasonable (and, I would hope, far more common) interpretation is one whereby people simply acknowledge that history has ensured a racial disparity, and that white people receive the benefits for this.

I always thought of it like a judge saying "White people are charged with being given an unfair advantage over black people. How do you plea?" and us choosing to plea guilty, because it's true, we absolutely do have an unfair advantage.

Sparticus has made it clear you're not going to listen to any sort of reason, but I'm gonna try one last time.

HighFalutin, you've been taught this idea that black people are less valuable/intelligent/driven than white people due to genetics. This is incorrect. You can keep holding fast to that opinion, never really giving it the critical analysis it deserves, or you can man up and acknowledge your mistakes.