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Well, after the American revolution we continued to conquer and colonise until we owned a quarter of the globe and governing a higher percentage of its population. This statement alone disproves your original point that the American revolution led to the British empire unravelling.
Every point that Guitarguy makes could easily be applied in the other direction. I could copy out his statement and use it to support my own side.
While I will not disagree to the point that America has an influence on Britain, that influence is nullified by the influence Britain has on America. Thus, it is stupid for Guitarguy to claim that Britain should thank America for "food" (etc).
"You are full of shit when you say that you didn't call him an obvious troll."
Well if he isn't a troll he must be stupid.
You have my apologies for not addressing you other points, though they were very well made and probably correct. However I do not have much time and wanted to dispute this outrageous claim before I left.
"You guys didn't really stop slavery until we did."
We were freeing slaves before your country existed, I fail to see how you can claim we didn't stop slavery until after you did.
"We do, currently."
You do what? You have this bad habit of debating in some fantasy context where everything you write down makes sense.
"Vint Cerf and Bob Kahn are credited as the inventors of the Internet. They're both American."
But their internet would be useless without the World Wide Web, its like the inventor of the road claiming credit for inventing the car.
"The first fully functional television was invented by Philo Farnsworth, also an American."
"John Logie Baird FRSE (14 August 1888 – 14 June 1946) was a Scottish scientist, engineer, innovator and inventor of the world's first television; Wikipedia.
"Half of the British shows, that were remade for America didn't even last past a few episodes. Most of the ones that did are actually starring the Brits from the original show (ex. Hell's Kitchen, Kitchen Nightmares, The Office (although it didn't star Ricky Gervais, it was produced by him) The Weakest Link, all of those shows produced by Simon Cowell, etc.). It seems to me like Brits are actually the one's behind most of the Americanized British shows."
You list a few cheap shows which are virtual pig feed on this side of the pond. What you've claimed is impossible to prove or disprove which is why I didn't hesitate to make an equally outrageous claim. We can sit here and list TV shows for all eternity or you can come up with some arguments that you can actually support with more evidence that your "experience".
"Then we obviously rely on each other's inventions, don't we?"
Like the car relying on the road.
"You sure do jump to the worst of conclusions when you read stuff, don't you? I said "our" as in you and me, Britain and America."
Then clearly someone needs to be more clear when using their pronouns.
"I don't know, man... I've been having to point out a lot of your misinterpretations..."
Well you're the one who writes in sarcasm.
"What do you use more? The practical household light bulb or the impractical lamp? I would imagine that it's the household bulb invented by Thomas Edison."
What do you use more the internet or the world wide web? I would imagine it was the world wide web invented by Sir Tim Berners-Lee.
"Maybe, but he was still an American citizen. You have to wonder why he moved to America to unveil his invention and didn't just stay in Britain."
Maybe you could do your pondering elsewhere and I'll wait until you write an argument.
Here's a hint, to find out answers to questions it helps if you use Google.
"Well, fuck. You probably use a different American brand, right?"
I fail to see why my toothpaste is relevant to this debate.
"Not the first kettle though. If you want to take credit for improvements, then you have to give America credit for most of the inventions that you listed."
No, you are correct. The British clearly did not invent boiling water, so the invention of the electric kettle is a minor improvement compared to that caveman with a clay bowl over a fire.
"Guns, not knives lol. You guys are the ones that shouldn't be left alone with sharp objects... hints, a particular decapitation in a public place."
Sorry, I'm sure there have been a multitude of decapitations throughout our history, could you please narrow down the event from the two millennia time frame you originally placed it in.
"I did. I learned about a lot of French inventions."
So you're not going to look at the list at all, nice way of debating, ignore the evidence that doesn't agree with you.
"Damn! You still think I was talking about the invention of stores? LOL! Commercialization, exports, etc. Not inventions, products really. Stuff that is American and plays a big role in Britain. You pretty much listed inventions for no reason..."
Can you please write as if you had an education, I've no idea what your point is but apparently there is some magical American thing that "plays a big role in Britain" and it's got something to do with commercialisation.
"Experience would be one."
What experience? Where you there at the American revolution then?
From what I gather your "experience" consists of an individual who spent their lives watching American nationalist films and probably never left the country.
"They'd be dumb too. You actually thought I was taking credit for the invention of food. LOL! Come on, man! I know you aren't that slow!"
It appears to me that we are not debating on whether Britain should keep the Royal Family, though I'm alright with that change in topic. But neither are we debating on whether America is greater than Britain, we are debating on what the ruddy fuck you keep saying because you debate in a manner of ridiculous claims and sarcastic responses, if you continue to fail at speaking plain English then I cannot see this debate continuing.
"America isn't a British nation, is it?"
Neither is Canada, but Canada do not make claims to kicking our arses.
"You lost the Revolutionary, didn't you? I can't wait to hear you repeat the same old "you had help from the French, blah, blah, blah!"."
So you don't like me telling you facts? Are you afraid I'll shatter that closed mind of yours and ruin some fantasy where some small time American colonists unite for the good of the common man against an evil empire which heavily taxes them for no reason whatsover?
And I find it amusing that you claim I'll repeat the "same old" story, Mr "We kick your arses blah blah blah"
You've just admitted that your claims can be disproven and your reply is "so what"? Is that it? Are you going to continue blatantly ignoring the facts and live is some dream world?
"That brings us back to your WW2 complaint. If you're all for fighting it alone, then don't complain about how it took us a while to help you out in WW2."
I'm not complaining that you arrived late, I'm complaining that your nation takes far to much credit for the war in which they had a minimal amount of contribution to winning.
"Sorry, skipped over this one. Exports and businesses. Our products and businesses are pretty big over in your country."
I like all that evidence you don't have.
"Doesn't hide the fact that our music is big over in Britain. British artists are big here too."
Do you get all these points from Sunday magazines or something?
"I didn't dodge anything, you just didn't take the proper meaning out of my comment. I'll rephrase it... "now look at your small country, whose claim to fame is the past!"."
I just like to rub it in that my country has a past.
"Did you not take credit for the English language and get on me for Americans using "your" language?"
Sorry, I'm completely baffled on trying to work out what it is that you're thinking when you write these responses. I'll just try iron out this little sub-debate.
You asked me which country was more relevant I stated that Britain's actions "led to English being one of the most dominant languages speakable, democratic values being widespread, capitalism being the primary economic system and the very borders of the nations in the continent of Africa."
Your response was: "You do realize that you didn't invent the English language, right? It formed over time out of a combination of other languages."
Of which I then failed to see the dispute (or the relevance) to my original point, you randomly claim that the English did not invent the English language and completely ignore my dispute to your claim that Britain had no relevance in the world.
"It didn't really become a World War until Japan attacked us and we got involved, did it?"
Well in that case it wasn't a World War at all because Switzerland didn't get involved.
"We jumped on your side because the enemy (your enemy) declared war on us."
The USA were conscripting men for the war long before Japan declared war on them.
"It's a good thing we have allies, huh?"
Not when they turn up late for the biggest conflicts in history.
"Umm what? So you've never heard of the English Civil war? The monarchy of England had fucked up the country in many ways, and there is at least one example to disillusion any romanticized view of the monarchy."
Pardon me, I meant to address the English civil war. While it was one of the bloodiest conflicts England has ever been in, it can be hardly called a revolution. Yes, the got rid of the King, but they replaced him with a Lord Protector with almost identical powers and restored the monarchy a decade or two later.
And please explain how the monarchy of the UK has "fucked up the country" and also how elected head of states do not "fuck up" countries.
"Have you ever read Wealth of Nations?"
Not all of it, just the major parts when I was studying economics.
"Smith explains quite clearly, over and over, that nobility and gov't worked in tandem. And it wasn't just limited to local gov't, either. Workers were punished for protests or strikes, and the few nobles who held a great deal of power easily and quite often worked together in their collective interests to hold the workers down, and (whenever the situation would warrant it) the state would facilitate such effort"
I'll have to agree with you, but those values which were enforced at that time were equally spread across the globe.
And interestingly enough, our country with a constitutional monarchy has clearly moved on from those times, but what you've just described is almost identical to the economic and political situation in your nation with a democratic republic
""I pledge Allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all."
Sorry, it seems that my claim was incorrect and that you are indeed correct , my mistake entirely.
"Our president is elected once every 4 years and is only the head of 1 of our 3 branches that keep themselves in check. "
I am well aware of this as I'm studying American politics.
"I've never heard of any american being called "unpatriotic" for dissing the president."
Doesn't mean it is improbable.
"I should be surprised that you said that, but sadly I'm not."
I'm surprised to hear that you apparently know me so well, considering that this is (from what I believe) our first debate against one another.
"They're iconic of a much more brutal history that the masses have largely forgotten or ignored."
Please expand on why the British monarchy has a brutal history.
"The massive genocide toward the Native Americans came before the USA being formed."
"That one is on you guys"
Our only contribution to the genocide was being unfortunate enough to spread diseases like every other nation on the planet.
"And, we got our slaves from you guys."
Then you could have got rid of your slaves when we got rid of ours.
I didn't state that Guitarguy was obviously a troll, I'm just really confused about how a person of reasonable intelligence can make arguments the way he does.
He justifies this debate by claiming that he's fed up of us Britons "talk[ing] shit about America" and yet the whole purpose of creating this debate is to give him an excuse to talk shit about Britain.
And arguing with him in nationalist debates is nearly intolerable due to the lack of evidence to support the outrageous claims he makes, in another debate he said " I hope you[Britain] enjoy our[America's] TV shows, movies, websites... actually, the internet in general, restaurants, food, stores, books, music,". The idea that America gave Britain "food" or "books" is absurd and the only thing he has to back it up is "experience".