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Bradf0rd's Waterfall RSS

This personal waterfall shows you all of Bradf0rd's arguments, looking across every debate.
1 point

"Proving that one thing exists then expecting another thing to exist because it shares traits with the first, or has been redefined to be the same, doesn't prove that second thing to exist."

Oh wait, I see the flaw in this argument... I never did prove that the universe exists. kthx brb.

1 point

"You're not proving god's existence, you're just describing the universe and then tacking "god" onto it."

I was merely proposing a different perspective by comparing the supposed characteristics of God with the only thing that we can attribute these characteristics to, the realm in which things exist.

My argument was more like "God == X, Y, Z == Existence"

"You start by defining god, and then proving that it exists. You don't describe something else in terms you associate with god and expect that something to become god."

The Bible is a book written in only so many words. It cannot or may not have been designed to explain to it's readers in great scientific detail, what God is. The point of the Bible is not to probe God. God isn't something to be poked at with a stick and measured. If you don't believe, which is all it takes, then ignore it. No one is forcing you to change, in fact, if there is a God it is allowing you to live your life the way you see it.

"Yet there is still suffering."

I think good and bad are on the same scale, and that is the scale of quality. If good can exist, which I think it does, so will bad. You pay for your good with bad, and visa versa. So, yes. There is still suffering. I was saying that if we exist, God allows you to suffer and endures it with you, because it's important to know suffering to know virtue.

7 points

Interesting. I have some questions though.

According to the Bible, can one have faith in God but not man, and be right in the eyes of God?

Assuming you have faith in God, you believe that Jesus was the son of God and that he died for our sins... and you love all people, wicked or not, as family. The only difference is you do not seek instruction or help from other people because they can or maybe corrupt in their understandings.

0 points

Very good argument, I would up vote you twice but I can't. Keep it up, please.

1 point

I love rain.

I live in a place where in summer there are no clouds in the sky, only dirt, and the temperature reaches over 110F during the summer. So, personally, I love the rain. Fresh smelling, crisp, cool air, water, what is there not to love?

Ask me in a year though, I'm moving to Portland Oregon in a month... my opinion may change, but I doubt it.

1 point

This is what I'm saying. The only possible outcomes to this question are...

A) The operation is invalid

B) The second of two operands are invalid

C) The only valid operand is the difference of no operand

So, it's either the question if flawed and cannot give a positive answer (unless you can have to valid operands), the second operand is invalid, meaning the operation is invalid (as already stated), or the only difference found in the operation is the difference of X and nothing... which is X.

Again, my point is that you cannot distinguish because the operands are incompatible, the operation on the operands is incompatible, and even if you were to carry out the operation, or force it (which invalidates the results) you get only "natural disaster" by itself. You cannot distinguish the difference between the two.

To make the the operation valid you assume God. Once you do this though you should get the same result as before, "NO". X and Y in this case are equal and so there is no difference assuming Y is valid. An act of nature is an act of god, or an act of god through nature is still an act of nature, through god.

Unless you are so delusional that you believe there is some way to actually distinguish without a doubt, the difference, you will always get "NO". Like, if you believe right before a natural disaster, god comes down from where ever, as a unnatural thing, and says "I AM GOD AND I WILL PERSONALLY MAKE A DISASTER HERE THAT MAY LOOK LIKE A NATURAL DISASTER, BUT IT'S NOT BECAUSE I AM CAUSING THE DISASTER AND I AM UNNATURAL AND SO IT THE NATURAL THAT I'M ABOUT TO USE AGAINST THINGS, IT WILL ALSO BE UNNATURAL TEMPORARILY!!! HAHAHAHAH". That's the only way you could get a "YES" from this question.

1 point

HAHAHAAA

That's what I explained to him(her?)... anyone who stays @ #1 for a that long will be attacked... just like Kukla and yourself...

I guess if you're with your kids all the time and still posting to CD it's possible to have a life and be #1.

Maybe it's just that CD is incredibly slow?

1 point

There are 4chan memes all over that shit and they're all old memes anyway.

Also, nothing compares to 4chan.

2 points

Funny, it seems like in the past few days I've been getting more up votes than I should be.

In either case though, you should stop worrying about it.

3 points

I've been here too much in the past week or so, I think I need to get a life.

Terminator though is here when I'm not, and he's here when I am... so he definitely needs to get a life.

AND the leaderboard shows it. Whoever is on that leaderboard needs to get a life IMO. It doesn't really mean anything except that you're here all the time saying more shit than anyone else, constantly, for at least a week.

Terminator is #1 on that list haha, above Joe!

3 points

"The nature of God, according to myself, is to not exist. For to create existance, one must first not exist to out rule contradiction. This is to say that God is actually the manifestation of existence from nonexistence. And to define nonexistence, one would say it is without or beyond the limits of space or time. Is that not God?"

I think you're on the right track here, but God doesn't have to either exist of not exist. The definition of exist is to be. Can something be that isn't in space time and that isn't measurable in any way? I don't know.

"The existence of a god is an unfounded and undesireable belief. Religion has hitherto brought forth war and greed. We are better off without a god. Further, a god should not be your means of a moral compass, your own mind should be fully capable of discerning right from wrong."

Now this is what I don't understand. The existence of God is unfounded and undesirable. The existence of god assumes God actually exists, in which case you wouldn't have a say in how it's founded or how desirable a truth it is. You mean to say "the believe in the existence of God".

Religion has brought about a lot of wicked things because it is a human construct. Even Jesus said that the churches of his time were corrupt and be proclaimed to be the son of God. So, the belief in God didn't directly cause said trouble. It was the religious organizations that founded themselves on the belief in God. To say that we are better off not believing in God because of what religion has done, is to say that we're better off without cars because of NASCAR accidents.

The Bible states that man is flawed, corrupt and imperfect. It would be best to stick with the word of the Bible as your moral compass but most importantly make your own decisions. Don't have people telling you what to believe because you don't really learn the value of right judgement. You don't know why right is right and wrong is wrong. You won't know good from bad and bad from good. You won't know God and God won't know you.

So in a sense I think you're right on, you say last that we are all fully capable of making right decisions, and I believe this too. Religious organizations are convincing people that we need help to serve God when this just isn't true.

2 points

Most quoted line: "I am your father" -Darth Vader (Star Wars Episode V)

@1:44 "No Luke, I am your father"
1 point

This is what I'm saying. Distinguishing is an operation that requires two valid operands. One of the operands is invalid, therefor you cannot complete the operation. The answer is "No" in any case (unless you are religious, and even then they can't unless they're deluded (or want to prove otherwise)).

Why so disputed?

1 point

This is very interesting, only because the public school board doesn't think it's important to teach in California...

I believe we should, ultimately, accept Mexican immigrants and legalize them. This sounds simple, maybe, but it is really a very complex thing to consider. There are a lot of particulars that could make or break the idea, and I've just sat here for maybe 30 minutes thinking about the implications of every tiny thought that's went through my mind... but I believe that the best thing to do would be to legalize the immigrants that are here, now, but deport Mexicans that have a criminal history here which is hard to tell when they're not citizens, and deport drug abusers.

It would help everyone involved, I think, because Mexican immigrants would have the freedom to move out into job sectors that they aren't allowed as illegals. This would cause them to seek higher education, to push out of the barrios that they are stuck in, and would give them rights as employees that they currently need. Getting people out of the barrios will be more difficult than just legalizing them, it's going to take a lot more, but Mexicans are hard working people, good people, they really are. Even despite the fact that they aren't recognized by the state, have no protection in the united states, and are so looked down upon by resident population of America.

So I say we legalize them for the good of the Americans that are and are not currently recognized by the state.

That, or you can all get the f*ck off of my property. I am over 50% real "Native American".

1 point

You say that's not what you mean but in this context that is what you are saying.

I'll use this as an example...

To an atheist, agnostic, etc...

You are given two components of an operation. X and Y

Where X is valid and Y is invalid

Compare X to Y

The difference is moot, there is nothing to compare.

To a religious person...

You are given two components of an operation. X and Y

Where both X and Y are valid

Compare X and Y

The difference may or may not be quantifiable either way, but it's valid.

Even if you don't accept my argument, not all religious people believe natural disasters are caused by God's will. Some believe (I'm speaking for a born again theologian) that God doesn't interfere with human affairs. He doesn't condemn people on earth, he doesn't help people on earth, he doesn't guide people, nothing, he doesn't even listen to your prayers. This is a highly religious Christian and he wouldn't say that natural disasters are caused by god... BUT he does believe in end-times prophecies, so he may or may not believe that any given event is related to the end-times.

2 points

This is McDonald's plan...

1) Build fast-food empire

2) Tune for maximum profit

3) Train army of loyal customers

4) Cause health problems

5) Buy up every other fast food joint in the world

4) Slip everyone not eating at McDonald's their death sentence

5) Become the only food supplier in the world

6) Get incorporated into the One World Government

7) Global Government Food Stamps now buy McDonald's food

8) People become unhealthy, must work from home, only eat McDonald's

9) Cow Shortage, no one can raise the cattle because of their health

10) Declare a state of emergency through the McDonald's Party of Earth, assume position of authority on crisis

11) Declare marshal law

11.5) Build state-of the art self-sustaining automated compounds and factories to take over the production of cows via complex machines that are built by the people of the world from their homes.

12) Begin collecting the bodies of the dead (Human) and building over the property they leave behind.

13) End meat shortage [Use human bodies in place of cow, watch profit margin explode]

14) From their homes, the people of the world will not realize the human population falling rapidly

15) Package the second to last human as a McRib, send to last human.

16) Robots and cows inherit the earth.

1 point

The one about thought processes would be interesting but you put "Yes chemicals" and "No Im in control" as the sides. I think that they're caused by chemicals and a bunch of other things, and you can be in control of your chemicals or thought processes... so I don't really want to get into it.

The one about fear and respect, it's situational. Then, the one about which name is more descriptive, I don't see a purpose it debating this.

1 point

You're saying that if someone doesn't accept the belief in God that they can tell the difference between an event caused by god, and one not caused by god...

If you don't believe in god there should be no difference because you don't accept the second, supposed, cause of the disaster. The question would immediately become invalid.

The only people that should be able to tell the difference are religious people or people of faith. The two supposed causes can be valid, one caused by nature, and one caused by god.

3 points

Can people distinguish between an unnatural event and a natural event? No. An event in nature cannot be unnatural.

Can people distinguish between a natural event and a natural event? No, there is no difference.

Funny, this topic assumes a God that can act in the realm of the 'natural', and then assumes God isn't natural.

2 points

The only gun that anyone needs on any game is the AK47, or any variant of it. The AK47 is Russian.

Russia would beat the shit out of all of us by themselves. France would drown in their tears, America would go bankrupt and burn, Germany would flee in their V'Dubs and spin out thanks to their "German engineered" ass-heavy chassis's, England would talk a bunch of shit with crumpets in their mouths, suffocate, and then disappear under a vibrant flash of white light... and then Russia would have a party for a day and carry on trying to implement true socialism.

3 points

If this were allowed, elephants and a whole lot of other animals would all the sudden start dying off "naturally" at an increased frequency. People will find loopholes in the laws and exploit them until there is no other choice but to make it illegal all together.

It shouldn't be allowed, but people shouldn't find so much value in ivory, whale fins, buffalo skin, etc, either. It's not acceptable to rob the graves of people, why should it be more acceptable to do it to animals?

1 point

Hurr Durr.

Durrdy hurr hurr durr. Hurr Hurr Durr Hinnnggggggg. Derp, Durr Durr Hurr... hurrdurrhing hurr. HURR, DURR, DERP, HINGGGGG. HIIINNNGGGGGGGGGG. Durrpty Hurrpty Hinggy. Derp derp hingly durr.

Hurr durrp? Hurr Hing? HURR HURR!

3 points

Assuming the government is owned by the people where the majority rules (and assuming the government is fully functional), the government always has the power of more than half of the people backing it. So basically if the people consists of 1,000 citizens, the government is at least 501 of those citizens. 501>499

The government exists to have the power and to express the power of the majority over the minority. Very important too, is that all 1000 citizens would have their faith invested in the government and their faith invested in the idea that more people know better than less people (haha), or they can leave the government. But still, in a majority rule where half the citizens bail out of the government the government would have at least the power of 251 citizens over 249... effectively the government would have the power of 500 citizens though, because of the faith invested by both the majority and the minority.

The people is the sum of all citizens in any case. If all citizens were to agree about everything and all citizens were equal there would be no government and this question would be invalid.

Be more specific about the type of government please, that would help.

1 point

Usually yes.

Word == Tool

Vocabulary == Set of tools

Grammar == Skill with tool set

An expression on paper (or by mouth) is formed first in the mind and in the language that it will be exporting the structure in. If the mind is using a small vocabulary and isn't skillful in applying words, how can you trust the final structure? The people with no knowledge of tools or skills might also have no knowledge of structures.

Who would buy a house designed and built by a man with only the knowledge of screws and duct tape, but the artistic?

3 points

I think most of the people here can, but the community doesn't reinforce this behavior enough, and punish people who don't argue well.

Instead, people use the up and down votes to reinforce or punish people that have like opinions or opposing opinions. I've been saying this since like 2007 or 2008. The point of the site should be to tune your opinions and your ability to argue a point... not about jacking people off that you agree with or that agree with you.

This is one of the reason I'll argue a point that I don't actually believe, but it's an idea that isn't represented. I don't really want people to agree with me, I want people to question their own ideas. Most of what I put here is just shit that I've learned to conceder in thought, and in arguing these points I (should be) learn(ing) more about the pros and cons of these ideas.

If the demographic were to be more strict about their standards I would conform. I could cite my sources, I could argue well, but the people don't seem to want it. I float in and out of CD looking for new people who expect this. Usually, bright newcomers are the best arguers, but they leave after a short time because everyone else here is more used to four character opinions than well thought out arguments. Hard working newer people often don't have opposition or just learn to post shit arguments like everyone else.

Anywho, I believe that the people here can, but we need to try harder. Punish people who don't try, even if they're right or seem right, and reward people who may be wrong but argue well.

AND QUIT POSTING STUPID OR REDUNDANT DEBATE TOPICS!!! Maybe once a week post a debate topic about the next weeks topics. Vote on the topics, then go at them for a week and write well thought out arguments. I'll upvote anyone who argues well.

1 point

In that case people shouldn't attack you because you're already attacking yourself and everyone should already know you don't feed trolls.

2 points

With the analogy of the blister on the foot, your whole body doesn't suffer, but you could say "my body is suffering" because the component of your body that is suffering (the blister or your sensory input from your foot about the blister) is still part of your body.

When I say the "universe" suffers I mean that a component of the universe suffers. The person that is suffering is a part of the universe so the universe suffers. Not the entire thing, but the part of the universe that is the person.

1 point

I think the right question is to ask whether or not actual reality is perceived reality. In other words, can there be an actual reality that isn't perceived?

The answer to the question as it stands is, of coarse. Perceived reality is always different from "actual" reality. Everything that you see, hear, feel, taste, smell is a construct of your mind through your limited ability to sense the actual reality.

Everything that you know of exists inside of your mind, as a product of your mind, with help from sensory input. You are already in a matrix.

1 point

God is both the person that is suffering, and the suffering itself. When I say that God is existence that means everything that exists. The material the suffering person is made of, the thoughts of the suffering person (because the thoughts exist, to the person thinking the thoughts), and the suffering that the person is feeling.

Again, God is all knowing. He knows the suffering because he is the suffering. Not entirely, because the person suffering is only a competent of God. Just as acknowledging the blister on your foot doesn't change you into a giant blister.

1 point

If you were to break down everything in existence into it's smallest component and count the components, the number of components would be the greatest number in existence.

11 points

God is said to be omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent. If you look at this definition, it is either impossible, to exist in our realm of existence, or... it [God] is our realm of existence. The only thing that you can fit these characteristics too, is the universe itself. The universe is "all powerful" over this domain because it is the domain. The universe is "all knowing" of this domain because it is the domain. And the universe is "all present" in this domain because it is the domain.

The only "miracle" that can't be debunked is the fact that there is this realm... before existence couldn't have been absolute non-existence. Existence has either always been here or it came from non-existence which makes absolutely no sense (but still may be true). So if God is the very fabric of the universe and existence itself, how can we prove that it doesn't exist??? We have no other choice but to accept it.

Also, in this idea, if people are suffering, and they are made of God, God cannot ignore the suffering people because he too is suffering.

1 point

We are flesh machines. Our point is to spread, like bacteria, throughout the galaxy and maybe further if there is a further... unfortunately for us, we have reached a point in human history were we believe that we are important as individuals outside of a group, and we fight the group for our individuality. This is both romantic (hopelessly unrealistic/useless to everyone) and retroactive.

We are in a natural depression, caused by the progression and evolution of the human species, from a hostile environment to a controlled environment, and from a small group/individual perspective, to one that requires socialization and a hive mind and dictation. That is, large organizations that control most if not all of people's lives. Now, don't take this the wrong way, because people quickly jump to conclusions when anything like this is said. What I mean by "control" is more of a "direct" than "force".

The most important thing to a group is the individuals, and their well being, second is the group's goals. In space, learning to be an individual as well as a component to a group is essential to survival... and it is also essential to their ability to complete tasks efficiently. Also, dictation is required when dealing with so many components, and it's something that we need to just deal with, as individuals in situations that allow us to be successful.

Anyhow, to me, life is about propagation and control. Typical male answer I guess.

2 points

"Which Person Or Persons Are You A Fan Of On This Website?"

On this website, they are my favorites. Their opinions are still here, just because they've went MIA doesn't mean I can't agree with them anymore, or disagree. They played by the rules whether I agreed or not, and they put up some pretty good arguments, something I can't really say about anyone that's here now (although I do admit, I don't really follow debates anymore).

Also, this is a question asking for a personal opinion. I gave mine.

2 points

1) xaeon

2) altarion

3) A number of people tie for third.

Last place: joecavalry ;)

14 points

The Tooth Fairy exists in the minds of some people, and the people interact with the world with this belief. They do things that they wouldn't have done, or they don't do things that they would have done, had they not believed in a Tooth Fairy. So, in a sense, The Tooth Fairy does exist for both the people that believe in The Tooth Fairy, and the people that are effected by the people's belief in The Tooth Fairy.

This makes sense to me.

My point is that even if God doesn't actually exist, and God is nothing more than a figment of people's imaginations, God still has power through people to do God-like things... such as not-exist but still change the universe as if he does. Even the tooth fairy does this, and Santa Clause. They might not actually exist, but the belief in them causes changes in reality that suggest they do exist. Teeth under pillows, cookies by a fireplace, letters to Santa.

I think that's enough to merit the existence of something, to see the effects of it's existence. Scientists do this all the time... "There's a distortion of the path of light from this cluster of stars, as if the light is bending around some sort of super-massive object that doesn't emit light itself... I believe it's a black hole because of the effects of light around this point in space."

Even if it's not "God" that is the cause for the change, and it's just belief itself... God is a type of belief because certain results come from the belief in God that don't come from believing in the tooth fairy.

8 points

Theists: I don't have a way to demonstrate, scientifically, that God exists. I believe that he does.

Atheists: I don't have a way to demonstrate, scientifically, that God exists. I don't believe that he does.

Both rely on scientific proof. Thing about theists is they look beyond what is scientifically testable. Beyond what's right in front of everything in existence.

18 points

God exists in the minds of some people, and the people interact with the world with this belief. They do things that they wouldn't have done, or they don't do things that they would have done, had they not believed in a God. So, in a sense, God does exist for both the people that believe in God, and the people that are effected by the people's belief in God.

2 points

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----------------- Very... entertaining -----------

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3 points

Adam and Eve were the only two people in existence. Incest causes deformations. Darker than usual pigment in the skin was probably a deformation. The white brothers and sisters thought that, because they were white, that dark skin was odd, wasn't attracted to it, and only likes attracted. Dark skinned brothers and dark skinned sisters... they humped and made darker skinned children...

Yes, that's it. Evolution of inbreds.

1 point

Not impossible, but improbable.

If you're into this type of thing check out a book called "The Biggest Secret" by David Icke. Shape shifting reptilian overlords from another dimension, hollow world, extraterrestrial "gods", Atlantis, Aryan super race = Alien overlord/Monkey slave hybrids, Hitler lives forever, vibrations that induce fear and hate to oppress people's ability to love and smoke weed, secret tunnels, worm holes, etc.

You'll be insane by the time you finish the book, guaranteed.

4 points

The pyramids of Giza were made of poured cement, not cut limestone. Even if they were cut from limestone, I don't think a space faring species from another solar system (or galaxy) would come to earth to help a bunch of monkeys bury a single monkey in a huge monument made of rock. It's a lot easier to imagine slaves hauling up ground sand and rocks, and water than giant limestone bricks.

At the same time though, I wouldn't be surprised if aliens did visit and share their knowledge...

2 points

Right and Wrong have nothing to do with whether or not god is good. Right and wrong are values for the quality of means. Good and bad are values of virtue in the end results. Sometimes the right thing is not a good thing.

Also, I don't understand how you can say that if right and wrong only exist because of god's fiat, it makes no difference to god. Please explain.

2 points

It's funny that you say this...

If you've ever studied any particular subject you would know that the more you learn about it, the more there is to learn about it and everything else. It would seem like anyone who's studying anything is just creating more questions... and for most people, questions are flags that indicate that something isn't known.

6 points

Liberalism is an socio-political and economic ideology.

I hear this all the time "Liberalism is a mental disorder, Hurr durr" and the likes. What they're really saying is "I can't understand this idea, so instead of attacking the idea I'll just attempt a petty attack on the people that hold the idea by making them feel like they are inherently defective."

What a bunch of pussies.

1 point

Let's recap this...

My question: List problems with modern society.

Your answer: Society is much better than it was.

Ignoring how you've missed the point, I asked another question of you...

My question: How is today's society better?

Your answer: Living standards get better because of technology.

In Context: There are less problems than there were in the past because of technology.

Ignoring how you've missed the point in context, I asked another question of you...

My question: What does technology have to do with societal problems?

Your answer: Technology couldn't happen without society.

Why don't you learn to think in more than <50 characters so that when you come contribute to a debate it's not so obviously for the points.

1 point

"basically playing like a zombie"..."you run around and shoot people on sight".

The problem is, you are a spectator. The "fun content" is what spectators see when they look at a game. To players, what they're looking at is a system of mechanical properties that they interact with. It's just an Input/Output system, and they're competing with other people to work the game in their favor. The same goes for chess. You see wooden board with pieces and people looking serious... what they see is a set of laws.

1 point

I don't think that has as much to do with society as it does with technology...

1 point

Your opinion is that the problem with society isn't societies problem... but that goes against the question unless you mean to say that the only problems in society are not societal problems at all... they are just issues concerning human nature.

An interesting question, if these 'issues concerning human nature' are really human nature, why do we have a problem with them? We choose what is virtuous or not, why is something that comes natural to us so unwholesome? Take for instance, selfishness. If selfishness comes naturally to us, why do we see it as something that is not virtuous?


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