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JayAr's Waterfall RSS

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1 point

So to clarify, a pop-in debater would be someone like myself? Occasionally pop-in to this site and make an argument when it suits me?

2 points

It's too not to. I do not believe that mythology or religion are proper nouns, either.

Also people are never to intelligent for religion, there will always be beliefs that people will fall back on in times of discomfort. Religion isn't a sign of dumbness, it's just a sign that a person wants to believe that they are part of a 'plan', 'purpose', or a 'saved group'. This isn't a bad thing, some people do great things with religious justification. While others may do worse things, it isn't necessarily correlate with their religion.

1 point

I think of as similar to the burning of a national flag, tremendously disrespectful but should be protected as a "freedom of expression\" thing.

0 points

Well...

1.) English is the most commonly spoken language in the United States of America, if you don't speak it you'll have to learn it anyways. So it makes sense to have a national language that most people can understand.

2.) Cost: It would be cheaper to just produce all Federal documents in English only, not our fault if they can't read it. They should've learned.

3.) Follow by example: Plenty of states have done it, so why not the federal government?

4.) Patriotism: What message do we send across if we don't even agree to have the most pure, godly, capitalistic, scientific language as our national language? A bad one, it shows we don't care about the majorities concerns and wants.

3 points

There is no De Jure national language in the federal government of the United States for a couple reasons.

1.) Flexibility, you never know when there will be more speakers of one language than English one day. Spanish is already spoken by a significant minority of the US population, that number is growing. It likely won't take over English as the dominate language any time soon; you can't ever know either.

2.) Openness and Freedom: It shows that the US federal government is open to all languages of the world, this is good for propaganda reasons at the very least. It shows that we are accepting of people of all nationalities, not just those with an English language background.

3.) Federal law applies to the entire nation, thus it is better to have no national language in areas that other languages are very common. Examples are New Mexico (a US state, some people know this, some don't), Southern California, or Louisiana (French).

1 point

It is utterly ridiculous that molestation would change someone's sexual orientation. It would likely scar them for life.

HOWEVER ignoring your argument above, and focusing on the title of this debate I have a different conclusion. YOU can change someone's sexual orientation (On the outside) through making them afraid of being punished (heavily) for it. This is one of the reasons people find it difficult to come out, out of fear of being punished in one form or another.

With this conclusion I state that you could change someone's external feelings with torture/ making them really afraid of crossing you wrong. It would lead to self-hate, extreme depression, and suicidal emotions yes, but it would work.

However it is unlikely to change their true selves.

Saluton, Cxu oni scribas Esperante?

1 point

Give blood or organs

If it's against their morals?

Do labor

If they gave up their freedom what options should they have, they should work for the community should they not?

Manufacture Items

Same as above

Be given medical care

Fine, what of experimental medical care? Or just plain using them as human guinea pigs?

Fight for their freedom or die

Think of the revenue for the state! Plenty would be made! Far less prisons, all you would need would be temporary cells! Also some television corporations would be willing to help fund the program provided they could broadcast what happens.

If you don't want them out fine. However what if they get special benefits such as a far superior bed?

Be participants on either a game show or a reality show((

What of game-shows?

1 point

I'm not worried about changing beliefs.

I am, thus I use a lighter hand.

That's not what this discussion is about, however. This discussion is about the veracity of claims.

Accuracy and truth are subjective, it differs from person to person. Facts however...

The facts of the matter are unambiguous and the dispute is between those who want to believe fantasy because it feels good and those who accept the facts. This is not a dispute in the sense of being meritorious or defensible.

First, the facts we know are highly likely to be changed someday with better evidence. While it may be more accurate than whatever Creationists say, it most likely isn't the complete truth. However that is meaningless in the context of this debate. Second, I was just pointing out that there is a dispute.

Exactly my thought.

Apparently we only differ in the amount of force used in order to make a point.

1 point

While that is great evidence, I might want to have some fun with a couple points.

1.) How do you know that is not a test of faith?

That is a horrible question that requires the existence of god to be verified before it could be answered.

2.) What if every primate species was infected with the exact same type of virus at separate times with no line of descent at all?

Extremely unlikely... this isn't a good question either, yet I heard it used before.

3.) What if the study is faked?

Peer review.... what else can I say?

1 point

Why give an unverifiable claim equal footing as science? We can't prove that reality isn't a dream, should that have equal standing too?

1.) To avoid getting into an internet argument with the more zealous on this site, it just ends in disaster with no change in belief. If you are light on the person they can cooperate and put up less resistance to something that they don't agree with. Eventually leading into someones change in beliefs.

2.)Yes, yes we should. However we should focus on things that will lead to a better life rather than indefinites, dream or not a dream doesn't matter and hasn't influenced our lives tremendousness. Just like the origin of the human species, it is great knowledge to have, but doesn't influence regular life all that much.

The evidence says that we live on an ancient Earth, and naturally formed upon. There really is no dispute, just denialism.

Anywhere there is argument (well founded or not) there is dispute. Denialism is reserved for those who don't want the implications of the truth in their reality.

1 point

Well you bring up an interesting ideas, things which are complicated and could have many an explanation.

How were humans created?

It is different according to your viewpoint. Scientific proof shows that Humans came from early life-forms. So that would be evolution. Some people think that is indisputable proof that there is no god. I think it doesn't prove anything in that field. After all how do you know that a god of some sort didn't guide our evolutionary path? You can't, simple as that.

On another note if humans were created by god, as in just poof without prior beings, what would that suggest? I think it would suggest that humans are a tool being used for some purpose, why else would you create something? (Entertainment is a purpose).

Why are we on this planet?

Old-World creationists, Panspermiaists, and Atheists agree that the world was around for a very long time. They seperate as too why we are here on this planet, Non-Panspermia Atheists think that we are only here due to chance. Which is a very rare thing to occur, so we are lucky to even exist. Old-World creationists think that God made this world just so that humans would eventually come about due to the attributes god gave to the world. In short we are here because we of the conditions of the earth eventually rising about to humanity.

As for New-World creationists and Panspermiaists, life-forms were placed here by a higher power, which were either humans or one day would become humans. In short we were put here with intent of us to be here.

Which is true is currently impossible to prove, so it differs on your viewpoint on what is correct.

6 points

So... wikiality then?

Does the majority agreeing with something make it true?

One more thing... how do you know for sure it wasn't written by the prince of lies?

3 points

My thoughts are that

1.) It should be a choice of the prisoner, no matter their sentence they can choose to die.

2.) They should be able to choose what method they want (within reason).

3.) If unable to decide... this would be their way out. If nitrogen asphyxiation is not available to the prison, then a firing squad shall be used instead.

4.) A psychiatric examination shall be conducted at least every week for a three months to determine if they are ready to die (and not being told by voices to do so).

3 points

Well, are you are asking for this one, this one, possibly this one, this one, this one, this one, this one, or are you wanting this one?

These all died out due to survival of the fittest. Not being fit enough to their environment to survive, or at the least not being fit enough to breed.

You are right that Darwin's theory is wrong, but it is like Newton's three laws. It was the base, and now it is improved and refined through a little over a century worth of research. Like the three laws the basic knowledge is there, but is not up to today's knowledge.

If you are arguing from a Christian viewpoint then you should be aware that a Christian monk discovered evolution!

Another point to the Christian viewpoint, if you are Christian what makes you think good doesn't have the capability to come up with such a system? There are supposedly no limits to god's power isn't there?

4 points

Statistically that is the case in all fields except STEM (Science, technology, engineering, mathematics) areas, where males excel more... As for spending more time on it, it differs per household. As for college there are more females in every class except STEM (again) classes, so in two decades every field except STEM and service work will have more females working in it rather than males. The UK is actively trying to make sure the genders are equal in all fields... this includes areas where males must receive a boost.

1 point

They aren't extreme opposites... if you want extreme opposites I suggest this for the left and this for the right.

Communism and capitalism fall somewhere in the middle, but both are similar representations of one or the other through a semi-free market.

I can't think straight, my meds are kicking in... so tired.

4 points

You want to know how it goes? (Smallest to largest, in magnitudes of ten)

Yoctometer

zeptometer

attometer

Femtometer

picometer

nanometer

micrometer

milimeter

centimeter

decimeter (there's your go between)

meter

decameter

hectometer

kilometer

megameter

gigameter

terameter

petameter

exameter

zettameter

yottameter

Learning is good.

2 points

Well... heaven's sorting system must be insane if I got up to the pearly white gates while supposed to be in hell.

However do you know what I would say to him? I would ask him three questions.

1.) How many people actually got into your heaven? (As I am curious what a 'true' believer is like, each follower of the faith thinks they are a 'true believer)

2.) I have done minimal sin, and I have done much charity work; so can I just be let onto the first circle of Dante's hell if I can't get into heaven? (good enough for me, and not as much of a dictatorship. Plus I get to speak with many great people over the course of history)

3.) Can you please explain the nature of these people, and do they get into heaven? (If they do it's not the place for me, if they don't I can rest peacefully knowing that they are either suffering in purgatory or hell)

I would then thank god for answering the most important questions on faith, and go wherever I am needed.

1 point

The spacecraft to orbit mars thing was complete irony, it's about a craft that Crashed into mars due to the US customary system being used rather than the metric that the hardware required.

1 point

It would be nearly impossible to make a good case for it.

It is near impossible to be the devils advocate for this one. Thus we have seen.

The two are equal in magnitude.

Yes, yes they are... your point?

1 point

You win this round.

I'm horrible at debating for the Imperial side aren't I?

Also Kelvin is superior to Celsius.

2 points

Excellent point on the soldiers!

We should play by the rule and treat them humanely because we are humane, kind, caring, and they are not. We shouldn't stoop down to their level!

2 points

What I meant is at the time the only ones who could afford/get treatment would be the higher-ups.

1 point

The circle of life was created when God took away the immortality from all the animals due to the eating of the forbidden fruit... it turns out I remember stuff from years ago I guess.

2 points

What the USA did is unacceptable! They damaged many lives for reasons that would most likely only help the higher-ups in society! Those international laws are in place for a reason, and that reason is to allow humans to be treated like humans rather than lab rats. Most of the things that were done were for a war that never happened (yet... but the odds are slim).

1 point

Hey, the USA Has done these things for multiple reasons. But the overall identifying theme is that they are trying to maximize the United States' citizens lifespans. By either

1.) Giving people complications so that they know what to do medically, the injecting of sailors with uranium pellets was to help their people recover from radiation poisoning when the nukes came.

2.) Torturing detainees for information to resolve crises, and to get information on possible future events. How many have been stopped? The world will never know.

2 points

1.) Then why has it stuck around for so long? There have to be reasons as to why.

2.) Yes, but America is different. It's larger, and has a bigger population; therefore costs more money to convert.

3.) Yes, but they can convert back. It helps if you click on the link.

4.) But plenty of Americans think that, I was hoping for a win due to this. Seems to work well in televised debates for some reason.

1 point

He fked up, and created the cow (when trying to make a shark, don't ask how). He liked the look of it, and so put it on earth with Adam. Adam had no need for the cow, the cow contributed nothing, so God made Adam have hunger... in order to fulfill the 'everything has a use' thing. He then promptly taught animal husbandry to Adam to make use of the milk, and gave Adam fire to make Steak. It is all very simple.

4 points

It shouldn't be in place! For multiple reasons,

1.) Tradition, many people are used to the system and know how to use it with enough efficiency to get a spacecraft to orbit mars. It is unneeded as the US does all it needs to do with the system already in place.

2.) Cost, It would cost lots of money to completely convert the US to metric, signs would have to be replaced, traffic systems converted to the new setup, numbers would have to be replaced on weather stations, kittens to be adopted, and also reeducating some of those who would need it.

3.) If the US tries hard enough, and stays on this system long enough, we just might convert the entire world to our system.

4.) If they switch, then the US loses to the FRENCH!

2 points

Yep... one of the last three countries to not switch to SI, sad isn't it?

They/We were offered to be the 2nd country on it after France adopted it, but they/we declined due to

1.) 'Tradition'

2.) Expensive to switch at the time... with limited countries accepting it.

How ever they/we are on the way, Liters are used far more commonly than gallons (Thanks, humorously enough, mostly to soda companies only using metric for containers). Similar to the UK in the 60's and 50's, the school system uses it for educational use. Sadly the USA has had that happening for 3 decades now, in the school system. The military uses it and nothing else (except in non-professional occasions rarer).

And as I stated earlier, it is up to each individual state to adopt it on their own willing, because the USA is a federal government (Smaller sections that make up a whole) rather than a Unitary government (one section split into smaller sections) like the UK.

So when are you guys going to switch to Kelvin rather than Celsius? I find it more useful.

1 point

NO, it's part of the British heritage (mostly, some things are different). THEY switched in 1975, and they were with the system for a longer time.

So what advantages does the US system have economically? That is what it comes down too in the mixed-type economy the US has.

6 points

Well it is already adopted by the technical fields, military, industry, and the school system. For two basic reasons

1.) Easier to use, easier to program, easy to read and understand.

2.) Is the world standard, and is demanded to be used by anything that wishes to be international.

Another thing is that it was decided by the supreme court that the states are the ones to decide if to switch... none have, although they can at their discretion.

1 point

I'm a member of the Socialist Party USA.... They aren't ^&@ing close at all! Number of reasons...

1.) Duverger's law pretty much prevents a far-right/left party from gaining power in a 'winner take all' type of electoral system. Like the United States, unlike the EU (thus why many parties are available). While there are some exceptions to the law, the USA isn't one of them.

Think of it like this (highly simplified)... If you have one fascist party that will get 70,000 votes (for a single seat), and two more parties that want freedom and hate fascism; that will both get 50,000 votes (for a single seat), they will be beaten unless they set aside their differences for a common desire. That is why all the large progressive parties and traditionalist parties set aside their differences to become part of a party that as a similar goal. It gives their politicians a chance of winning and inputing their policies, while making one party larger, while all the time it is seemed to be the same mindset. (Thus why some socialists go to the Democrats, larger chance of victory; even if you have to restrain a little.)

2.) Huge economic differences, The democratic party is more of a subscriber of the nordic model than of marxism-leninism. I'll let you guys read those on your own, as I think #1 is the big one.

3.) Least convincing argument I've ever is this.

Their names are spelled different, therefore they are different!!!1!* (PLEASE DON"T TAKE THAT seriously).

1 point

Yes that is completely true... every word, in order for there to be 1st world there has to be 2nd and 3rd; unless someone makes gigantic automatized farms/ plastic toy factories.

0 points

Definition of 'pinnacle':

1.)(architecture) a slender upright spire at the top of a buttress of tower

2.)surmount with a pinnacle "pinnacle a pediment"

acme:

3.) the highest level or degree attainable; the highest stage of development; "his landscapes were deemed the acme of beauty"; "the artist's gifts are at their acme"; "at the height of her career"; "the peak of perfection"; "summer was at its peak"; "... ...

4.) a lofty peak

1.) As humans are not buildings it makes no sense to use that definition.

2.)Not usable.

3.) Evolution drives 'forward' (read as 'in the direction of being the best able to procreate'), generations go on and on each somewhat better suited for the environment, so it stands to say that the only 'pinnacle' of evolution is the lifeform that doesn't have to change throughout any environment presented. Which humans are not, as we are not suited to every environment that is available to us.

4.) Hmm... humans don't make any physical peak that I know of. Which is what is being refereed to here.

1 point

At about dusk in your local area is that part 'leading the world' as in pointing in the direction the earth is going, 'therefore leading the world'.

Honestly I have no answer to your question, but I do have criteria of world leading... not in order of importance.

1.) Scientific research: How much information is the country giving to the world via science? India is highly important to the world in this aspect, particularly in medical and communications fields. So in this aspect it can be seen as one of the leading countries in the world.

2.) Military might: How easily can this country take over Venezuela? India is both a nuclear and military power in the world, with a large military and a modernized one. So it is a leading country of the world.

3.) Population: How large is the population of this country? AKA Could all the people in this country fit on the isle of man or not? Well India is a leader here as well, 2nd only to China. Population stability differs on the region (don't worry same with most nations, EXAMPLE: USA and its south-eastern area).

4.) Educational Superiority: Are the people of this nation literate? And do they know basic mathematics? India isn't a leader here; it does have many educated people, but the less fortunate areas lower the placement of India on the world scale.

5.) Economic Superiority: If this nation disappears how badly would the world economy be hurt? India is deeply ingrained in the world economy, in multiple ways

1. It is the largest producer of food for the world, which ingrains it into the economy.

2. It is a major market, for all industries.

3. It is a major producer of marketable goods.

4. Has a larger labor force than the USA's population.

So India is a leader, but in a limited sense when speaking economically.

6.) Resources: Can ____ be made without this country in large quantities? India is a massive producer of cattle and crops, has about 10% of the world's coal supply, and a major potential producer of nuclear fuel. I'll let you be the judge.

Those are the main ones, there are others but those typically are what creates superpowers. Enjoy the Commonwealth games by the way!

1 point

This is going to be difficult to D. Advocate for... put on my mask

We should! If it minimizes the discomfort of the people from their current 'government' (the only real government is one by the people, democracy!) causes them, then yes as it is the humanitarian thing to do.

It also quickens the inevitable, as all governments become a democracy eventually... take a look at the 1989 revolts, even the idealogical opposite will eventually fall to the will of the people! cough, sorry

As democracy works so well for us, it must work good for everyone right? Cough Well after a couple years of cutting out the people from the despots from the last government from the system, as they shouldn't be put back into power even if the people vote for them! Because they did bad things right, that's why we are doing this.

The real reason is to get buffer in an inevitable 2nd cold war and to maximize our current advantages against whatever the new competing ideology will be.

I am a horrible devils advocate...

3 points

The communist manifesto described that as 'Primitive Communism', tribes also fought until one gained power over a large area (or teamed up in a coalition to fight aggressive tribes). Then it was split into districts where a tribe leader (now king) gave power to chieftains (now nobles) over said districts, after a time the nobles gained power and to prevent war set up a council. The king's power diminishes over time and more goes to the council, the council then allows people more freedoms in order so that the council is viewed more favorably. Then the people after getting this morsel of freedom demand more, and either through the council giving it or the people revolting a democracy is put into place. Parties form in the democracy and then start to manipulate the people to vote for them. Then one day a single group has an idea, to make it so that the happiness and well being of society must be maximized. They either get there through revolt, or democratically (both by populist efforts). This new government makes it so that things are spread pretty fairly among the people, over time this gets to where everything is shared equally.

TL;DR

Anarchy-> Tribalism/Primitive communism-> Feudalism->Oligarchy -> Democracy-> Populist socialist state-> Communistic state->????-> Profit!!1!

1 point

So what I take from your statement is these points, please correct me if I am wrong.

1.) A group can gain power and crush freedoms if what they say they stand for is a popular sentiment?

2.) That it is more effective to just yell lies than to tell truths when trying to smash opposition?

Now a couple questions:

1.) How large of a threat is this to America?

2.) What do you think the primary tactics for this group will be when they try to gain power?

3.) Is populism the way to gain power in a 'democracy'?

4.) Does this relate to fundamentalism?

2 points

So people that want to maximize the freedoms of the individual (without going into anarchy) are the main danger?

Or do you mean the American 'liberal', a quasi-left group that people are grouped into if they disagree with the G.O.P on more than three issues?

Please elaborate on how they will destroy rights/liberties? As what you have is very basic, with little to no backing; an implied statement is made with a winking face that is common on social networking sites can be interpreted in many ways you know.

1 point

It is a great country, but a well rounded great; it isn't the best in many fields (but in the top 10 for most of them).

1 point

Sigh... the classes I took in my nation went along the lines of this...

Primary: Creation of the nation, a brief history of the UK, Canadian studies (year 4), History of the USA up to the Lincoln Assassination, History of the Portuguese empire (WHY? I don't know)...

Secondary: WWI, WWII (but not the Warsaw uprising or invasion of Madagascar, both awesome), French Vietnam, US Korean War... Cold War, History of communism ( 2nd Best class ever in basic schooling), History of Afghanistan and Iraq (Best class in basic schooling).

1 point

It's okay being in having any form of sexual feelings for a human being while still an untainted young mind?

2 points

Honestly terrorism is a cruddy tactic for warfare... you lose more manpower than an average attack, and you attack things that have little importance to the war machine.

I stopped worrying about it when I thought about how weak the entire thing is, a successful terroristic attack is more show than immobilization. It kills less than what a coordinated fire attack on major crop lands in a nation would do through famine caused by it, and you put your men out like that just begging to be eliminated in a bomb-vest (you can destroy how many crops with a lighter compared to people killed with a vest?). It does get people scared though, but in my experience this just unites them.

2 points

For the sake that this is a debate site I will take the side opposing you... this will be fun!

Would you pay for a half-ass police agency? Neither would anyone else. If cutting corners means cutting customers, then you can rest assured that the only companies able to remain competitive on the market will be the ones that provide the best services. ;)

McDonalds is that a half-ass food service? To many yes, yet people buy from them despite them being half-assed and unhealthy... they do this by cutting corners to cut time and save money on products increasing profit. By your logic it should be out of business, it's not thanks to the fact that free enterprise doesn't care about quality, but about amount of money made. A robotized police force could go around some of these issues, but has a massive overhead cost.

You're ignoring my point. You can get away with a lot more if your company is the only one of its kind (monopoly). And you can get away with a hell of a lot more if your monopoly is coercive... like the ones we have now.

But in a free-enterprise system people can open up their own competing business and if people don't like the monopoly they can use your service... some people already use private companies for a police force (some gated communities, some resorts) so there is potential that a privatized police force could come into the mainstream (why hasn't it?). So the regular police force isn't as much of a monopoly as you think, but it still has a large share of the market.

You're going to have to do better than this. Show me an example of a free-market insurance agency being "abusive".

As a side note, they do take those policies to prevent themselves from being open to fraud like this therefore losing money. However some companies do overreact by putting up barriers to who can join (you know what I mean, who doesn't?), along with disadvantages of the unlucky (those who have the same thing happen multiple times).

You can only raise an army with a tax base. Customers aren't enough because customers tend to not pay companies that start to militarize.

Can you give an example of costumers stop paying a company that starts to militarize? The business plot is interesting, but unprovable. If anything a private police force would be the easiest company to mask a militarization, they could get more funding because more customers would like the 'sliding' level of protection (with the highest tiers having Assault rifles and such) with the higher cost for the better gear; so people would be paying for the militarization.

Really? Because the only free-market I can think of in recent history was Somalia... and crime went waaaaaaaaaay down in that time.

Actually there were states, but micro-states with limited influence over the individual... so libertarianism it is then? Also there was law, but unwritten laws and societal expectations; which have a large influence over what you do. So it differs on the cultural background, and about size of the micro-states.

In Somalia some areas were better off, like banking and industry... and others were worse off, like violence but due to warlords taking advantage of the situation, and wanting control of it all through war...

It's already been proven that things work better without a state. This isn't a matter of arguing logic anymore, but rather a matter of getting the facts out and talked about.

Prove it, why do states keep appearing? There is a reason. Get the facts out, I want to see them. I'm interested.

side note also I think it differs per person what kind of state (or lack of) they would function best in, due to the way people act under different situations. So trying to find out what's best for all is never the way to go; if you conquer the whole world keep Australia open for the dissenters of your ideology, they would have no excuse really to not go if that way of life is not the way they roll.

1 point

Please point that out, I know that's in there but didn't think yehshua(the actual name of Jesus/prophet Isa) actually said that stuff...

1 point

A couple of things, first paragraph below deals with public image... then the second below will be why I prefer Obama over McCain...

It is highly unlikely he would have won at all if you were to play back the tape to the election... have any of you read Fahrenheit 451? There is a scene in there dealing with a election, the women (more than one) voted for one candidate because he looked better, was taller, thiner, younger, and didn't put out complicated ideas on politics just simple stuff. The same can be said as a big reason why Obama won, because people are easily swayed by these factors unless entrenched in their ideology... I mean 'hope' and 'change' are damn easy to remember slogans. Obama's campaign seemed to emphasize his better looks, and easy concepts to grasp described small words, which gets votes. Like it or not.

I do prefer him for trying newer things (well more new things than the alternative, excluding indies), actually experimenting with society hoping to optimize it (people always have what seems to them the best interests of the world at heart) while there are policies I disagree with as a quasi-socialist (nationalize the damn health care, don't corporatize it!) this way we can see what works (better) for american society rather than keep doing the same old things... I don't know if the world will end up as a atheistic-communistic-fascist-satanic society if he remains in power for two more years, but hey at least we tried something else. It will be over soon anyways. Billions spent, however we really don't see the affect those billions have on the world until at least a decade into the future when we can get a bigger picture... see the American (or French) Vietnam for perceived worth when it was started compared to now.

In short, people are manipulated by good looks and small words. As well as we are trying something new, which will take time to see the full situation and the effect of actions/policies taken.


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