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This personal waterfall shows you all of Warlin's arguments, looking across every debate.
1 point

you cannot say that something is possible but also impossible

Quantum logic! Totally can.

What? I couldn't resist.

1 point

Any problem? Sure. Every problem? Nah.

1 point

If it is logically possible, then it follows that it is possible in some possible world.

It does not. Modal logic'll assume that it does, but modal logic has a very large flaw in that it assumes that anything that's not illogical must be possible and therefore exists somewhere. Modal logic is not infallible, mind you, and has not existed before the dawn of man, it is not timeless, and it is not entirely sound, and I think it's assumption that possibility means existence in some possible world or another is its biggest flaw. Logical possibility does not equal absolute possibility.(For we do not possess absolutely infallible logic.) Again. Infinite possibilities does not mean that all things are possible, and this includes all other possible realities where the laws of the universe are different.

Anyways, let me just sum up with brunt of my argument here: Humans are stupid. We don't know enough about anything to make any logical conclusions that are entirely sound. Modal logic isn't sound. We don't know enough about how other possibilities work and what keeps everything together to possibly have the logical confidence to make such grand assumptions.

Its because He is real and you don't want to accept that there is no contradiction.

And someone is getting tired of debating it seems like.

I think I'm going to stop. This was really fun for awhile, but I think we're at a brick wall here. Either way, I think I learned a little, so that's good. Thanks for talking with me, and I apologize if I insulted you in some fashion. Sometimes I do that in the heat of the moment.

1 point

Actually, yes it does. If God is not equivalent to a married-bachlor, then He is possible in some possible world.

Logically possible. Not scientifically possible. There's a difference.

God is either logically possible or logically impossible. There is no in between.

Logical possibility or impossibility. There is an in between. We don't have hard proof that he's scientifically possible or impossible. Without hard proof, everything comes down to logic, and logic can't prove god. It's a very convincing argument and it's interesting, but when it comes down to it, without accurately measuring the possibility of a maximal being, we're back down to logic. And modal logic is something of a peculiarity because it assumes that things that aren't logically incomprehensible must be possible. Logically possible. Key word being logic.

Anyways, assuming that something is possible because you can't prove that it's impossible is a good assumption to make, but a lot of people forget about the whole assuming that something isn't possible.

But.

God impossible or necessary?

He is, right now a logical possibility. But. Buuuut.

It's also not logically incomprehensible right now that god's impossible in all possible universes.

Furthermore, we don't have enough information to correctly make an entirely sound affirmative or negative. We don't have enough information to correctly know if he's logically incomprehensible or not.

Again, it's a cheap parlor trick because it makes the assumption that we know enough about our universe to know whether or not god is possible. We don't.

1 point

Yeah. The first premise assumes that god is possible. And we don't know that. Which means it's is a leap in logic.

He could be possible. He's not logically incomprehensible, but, that doesn't necessarily mean that he's possible. It's also possible that people find out that god is impossible.(With hard evidence, mind you.) You can't discredit that possibility. Despite his logical possibility, his logical impossibility can't be discredited. See. This argument uses a lot of really silly leaps in logic. By saying that god is in the gaps, and that we don't have to prove anything because nobody knows, it makes the argument moot. It's a lovely argument to pitch to people who don't have much of a brain.

Personally, I'm fairly on the fence here, and I'm not too afraid of death because I want to know where everything is going, but using cheap parlor tricks and twisting words and logic to make an argument that -seems- to stand on its own without any hard proof doesn't work on me.

I might not be able to entirely articulate what point I'm getting at, and if that's the case, I apologize, but the first premise of this argument is the reason it fails. It makes an assumption and tries to prove that assumption with its further premises. It's a ridiculous little anecdote, but ultimately, the argument is moot, because it doesn't prove anything. What I think I can compare it to the easiest is Pascal's Wager. Not that I'm saying the logic is the same, nor the point, but Pascal's Wager is one of those cheap arguments that tries to sway people, though it does it in a more direct and brutish manner.

Logic can't prove or disprove god. We're human, our thoughts are inherently flawed. Again, infinite possibilities does not necessarily mean that all things are possible. I'm a skeptical believer.

1 point

The argument, as philosophers, both theistic and atheistic, have agreed upon, can only be defeated at premise 1, which is whether God is possible or not. Hence, the only way to defeat it is to say that God is logically incomprehensible. If He is not logically incomprehensible, then He is real, by definition. Plantinga even admitted that this is up the the person to decide; however, in what way would He be illogical?

Nonsense! The first premise takes a leap in logic by assuming that such a maximal being is possible in any possible universe.

It's the burden of the person who makes the argument to prove that they are indeed possible. And then we get back into the classic argument of 'you can't prove that god isn't real' and 'well you can't prove that he is.'

It's not a very brilliant formula because it doesn't work, ya dork.

1 point

Possible because we don't currently possess the knowledge to prove or disprove his possibility.

Really this is a weird failure of language because it's possible for someone to develop cancer or catch a cold, etc, and we know why these things are possible because we can observe and measure these things.

We really don't have any tools for measuring the validity of a god. The idea here insists that god is possible? But what if it's possible that he's not possible? In any possible universe? You can't really discredit the possibility that god is simply an impossibility in all possible realities. Infinite possibilities doesn't necessarily translate to all things being possible, you see.

Or to put it another way, a maximal being doesn't necessarily have to be possible in one universe or any universe, and the current possibility of such a maximal being hinges solely on our inability to observe and accurately measure the possibility of such a being. Y'know, it's like there's multiple kinds possible.

It's really a silly train of logic, I think.

2 points

Less drugs. More healthy food.

2 points

You're not any particular system.

2 points

That's like. Communism. Almost. I mean it's kind of communism. It's at least y'know, economic communism or communismish. But I mean whatever you've gotta do -some- taxes at least and I'd rather be in a society where everyone is forced to work together than the lack of a society where people just shoot eachother and take what they want.

2 points

My avatar is me. In real life. No photoshop.

Don't believe me? Come to my house. See anorexia at its worst and noses at their biggest.

1 point

A celebration.

2 points

1. Education: God

2. Religion: God

3: Hobbies: God

4: Race: The Elect

6: Political Views: God

7: Personality: Righteous

8: Most Likely to God.

-Shrug-

I don't even. What isthis

1 point

You know I am pretty sure his point is that ordinary citizens can own machine guns if they get the permits.

Having special permits doesn't exactly make a citizen more than ordinary.

2 points

GROW A PAIR OF TESTICLES.

Or something similar. I dunno. If you really want to quit somethin', you'll quit it. And I imagine people are going to flail and weh about that but I have been chemically addicted to things before. And withdrawals are not fun but they are totes manageable.

So really the best way to fight an addiction is to not be a bitch about it.

1 point

Hey my point still stands, bro.

Warlin(1212) Clarified
1 point

I am kind of an ignorant person. But legit. You sign up for a religion like Christianity, you just don't question god. You. You just don't do it. There's no further logic than that.

1 point

Because they're... Christians? I think that pretty much explains it.

2 points

The fuck are you guys talking about? All I see are breasts.

3 points

Without employees, a company can't very well run. They're not going to get fifteen an hour because in this economy, people'd suck dick to get a job at Mickey Dee's, but the average worker deserves more pay. They're the foundation of the company that hired them. They do all of the pain in the ass menial day-to-day tasks that nobody else up the proverbial foodchain wants to do. I'm not saying they should be treated like royalty or have outrageous salaries, but fifteen bucks an hour isn't outrageous by any means.

1 point

Not that I'm saying people shouldn't try to better themselves, nor should they keep their criticisms to themselves, but ladies n' gents, especially around here, people tend to forget their own glaring flaws, in favor of pointing everyone else's. In the context of Christianity, there's definitely a lot of hypocritical statements and braggings of knowing what's right and what's wrong.

Or really, I guess my point is, really, pointing out what's wrong with what everyone else is doing in such an aggressive manner is just... kinda dickish.

2 points

Wouldn't an Atheist Chaplain basically be a therapist with less experience and credentials?

1 point

Abortion.

1 point

I think we developed the need to save the weak because older folk happen to be more skilled than younger folk.


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