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20
36
Africans are less evolved Africans are not less evolved
Debate Score:56
Arguments:57
Total Votes:56
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 Africans are less evolved (19)
 
 Africans are not less evolved (30)

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Pharmacy(213) pic



A Scientific Debate, No Religious Answers, Please.

Africa is often credited as " the cradle of life", it is said the each and every person on earth is a direct descendent from the very first "Africans", our common ancestor. If the basis of all evolution is genetic mutation, are Africans less evolved by comparison? Would it be logical or reasonable to draw this assumption? Who would be the "most evolved" people's? I was told in school that: we migrated into the Middle-East (the cradle of civilization), then into Europe and Asian, evolving all along the way to adapt to our environment. Those who remained in Africa saw very little evolutionary change due to the fact that there was no need for adaptation (Africans were already well suited for their environment). Is my professor a racist? 

Please try to be as sensitive as possible, this is a touchy subject.

Africans are less evolved

Side Score: 20
VS.

Africans are not less evolved

Side Score: 36

Black (non mixed) people from Africa have usually IQ 70 or less also little smaller brain. It seems to me that Blacks are predecessors/older version of white/Asian.

Side: Africans are less evolved
Pharmacy(213) Disputed
1 point

Where r u getting this data from? I am not black, I am Asian, Russian and European, but I don't accept or believe ur information.

Side: Africans are not less evolved
Banana_Slug(845) Disputed
1 point

There were n=many studies done. Weight differences checked on 1000 brains in 1906. MRI testing, Neurologists can easily tell you if they are looking (on screen) on black person brain. The structure/curvature is usually simpler.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:National_IQ_Lynn_Vanhanen_2006_IQ_and_Global_Inequality.png

I have't made it up. I'm not racist, this is simply how it is.

Side: Africans are less evolved
Pharmacy(213) Disputed
1 point

Maybe black receive a poorer education, but I don't believe they r less intelligent.

Side: Africans are not less evolved
Banana_Slug(845) Disputed
1 point

Those IQ tests were not based on knowledge otherwise the would get 20 or less. It was the type that tests natural intelligence of a person. something like :

A B C A B C A <-- what letter will be next.

Side: Africans are less evolved
kozlov(1754) Disputed
1 point

An IQ of less than 70 is mental retardation. I do not think that all African people with dark skins have mental retardation. Also, where did you get this information?

Side: Africans are not less evolved
Banana_Slug(845) Disputed
1 point

Mental retardation is for past few decades bellow 60, it used to be 70 but that would be racist... :D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:National_IQ_Lynn_Vanhanen_2006_IQ_and_Global_Inequality.png

Side: Africans are less evolved
orivatis2(34) Disputed
1 point

This 70 IQ you speak may be from a variety of reasons outside of genetically being less intelligent. Culture influence has a huge impact on measured intelligence if its even accurate. Like the black inner city children do not value intelligence as much as wealthy suburban kids generally because their not as scolded as much and pressured as wealthy suburban family would. Other reasons why would be less money spent on education and activities to provide a educational proficient environment. The list goes on.

Side: Africans are not less evolved
OpenAdvocate(12) Disputed
1 point

I've heard nothing about having smaller brains, but lower IQ is very true. Of course, women, Asians, Latinos, and Europeans have a lower IQ as well. This is due to what IQ actually measures. IQ is a quotient, a comparison based on those who are tested, not based on some outside standard. Since most who take an IQ test are white American males, the average score of 100 is based mostly on their abilities. Those who are, women, non-native English speakers, and those who are not up to date on American culture tend to score less on IQ tests.

Side: Africans are not less evolved
1 point

Evolving means changing and adapting to new requirements, for survival.

Those who stayed in Africa, while many others from there left to different areas with different conditions, haven't had the need to change as much. Those who left have had to re-adapt and change multiple times.

No wonder northern people are more peaceful... 'cause those people have lived through so much, seen so much, adapted and changed so many times, they've had to think and come up with many new solutions for survival, they have had to use their brains far more than those who stayed back.

Side: Africans are less evolved
Pharmacy(213) Disputed
1 point

Evolving means genetic mutation, there are a lot more natural predators in Africa than there are in Europe. And "norther people" are most deffinately not "more peaceful", I'm sorry that is just not true. I am not black, I have no invested interest in the subject, but you are wrong.

Side: Africans are not less evolved
Banana_Slug(845) Disputed
1 point

Our societies are much more effective, we actually can cooperate and develop stuff, we can plan decades in advance, design complex systems.

Native African tribes still don't know wheel.

Side: Africans are less evolved
chatturgha(1631) Disputed
1 point

Your point is sensibly flawed and reasonably unreasonable, up until you start mentioning 'northern' people being more peaceful then Africans.

Ha.

Ha ha.

HA.

The only reason non-African subspecies can seem to be more peaceful and/or advanced is because Europe, Asia, and a good chunk of the Americas, are not totally inhospitable... which most of Africa is. When you have limited resources and limited ability to sustain a population, and therefore no ability to easily prosper... well, duh, of course you're going to fight and kill other people. Territoriality prevents excess starvation, for the same reason hunters in the United States practically have a duty to kill deer during deer season... because if the deer population is not thinned, then deer, as well as other animals, will starve to death.

See... if a prehistoric Asian and prehistoric African inexplicably changed places on the map... both would probably die. Why? Because gaining a new adaptation does not mean you gain an additional adaptations (not directly, at least). DNA does not grow in size and complexity (at least not on a scale we can measure), it just changes to be more efficient. The suggestion that Caucasians can somehow genetically survive in both deserts AND taigas because their adaptation to survive deserts from their African ancestors is suddenly not recessive is ludicrous.

That would be like suggesting that because someone is born with an extra chromosome, they would be super-human, because by your logic, their DNA should use every beneficial gene as a dominant gene, meaning an extra chromosome would give DNA more beneficial genes to use dominantly. But evidence shows us this is not the case... that if you are born with an extra chromosome, the entire heredity of your fetal development is broken due to the system of dominant and recessive genes working together based upon which one is the more efficient adaptation called... oh I don't know... your bloody DNA... thus, an extra chromosome results in serious problems.

Tl;dr: Your third paragraph is a bad joke at trying to appear as if you know how genetics work.

Lastly, claiming that a subspecies that branches away from Africa is somehow more learned then Africans is also silly. They do not consciously or collectively learn new survival skills that adds onto some collective knowledge of how to survive. No. Their DNA and environment causes them to relearn how to survive based upon their non-desert environment. Again, when you adapt, you do not add onto some sort of collection of dominant genes that remain prevalent forever (if evolution worked that way, we'd all be deific in power at this point). We are not the protoss; we do not share memories and experiences passed down from humans that lived and died before us. The only thing a non-African would have going for them genetically is that they have more recessive genes then Africans... but the fact that they have more recessive genes means they are less capable of re-adapting to live in a desert over time, as where Africans are perfect for a desert climate because they have no recessive genes that are ill-adapted to survive in a desert, therefore a purely unmixed African couple has literally no chance of having a child that is genetically unfit to live in the desert.

Ugh. Okay, I think I'm done explaining genetics to you now. Your argument is uneducated. I apologize for possibly sounding rude.

Side: Africans are not less evolved
1 point

He is not racist, they are less evolved. Evolution(when considering humans) you could simply say is 1st the occupation of the best land, 2nd best utilisation of said land and 3rd the advancement in society such that death rates decrease and life span increases, trading, communication and so on. Western society is much more evolved than most African countries, just look at our decreased death rates, increased life span, better health care and higher IQ, complex social hierarchies and generally better quality of life.

Side: Africans are less evolved
2 points

Not at all I wouldn't say Africans are less evolved. I don't know why he might say that, I mean typically they don't have lower IQ's, they're not any closer to apes than we are or anything else like that. Though I wouldn't say your professor is racist. Just ignorant! I am sure he didn't say those things to be hurtful, he just has his facts wrong.

Side: Africans are not less evolved
2 points

Have u ever read the book "Guns, Germs and Steel; the Fates or Human Societies"? It is very interesting, according to the author, the advancement of any particular society or inhabitants of any given geographic location all depends upon; guns, germs and steel.

Side: Africans are not less evolved
Pharmacy(213) Clarified
1 point

But in technical terms, in terms of an evolutionary timeline; are Africans less evolved?

How did it happen, then? Please tell me, I'm going to chew his ass out next Tuesday, but I need some credible info first, lol.

Side: Africans are less evolved
Jungelson(3959) Clarified
2 points

Oh I see. Well a species simply evolves as I am sure you know to suit its environment. Now I don't see how Caucasians can be more evolved than Blacks just because they live in a different environment. Maybe evolved differently given in Africa it is much hotter and drier ( but when it rains, it means it!) And in more northern countries like Canada or Sweden, it is far colder and wetter. Of course depending on where in the world you are over time people will evolve differently. But I don't see how Africans are LESS evolved. As I said, Differently perhaps, but by no means less. I'm going to be crude about this. But carbon dating has found out (by looking at old footprints) that the fastest person ever to live was an Aboriginal from Australia. And the current fastest man is, as you know Usane Bolt. Almost all the best athletes physically are the best. As for mentally, there is no evidence suggesting they are less evolved!

Side: Africans are less evolved
2 points

"Less evolved" is a meaningless phrase. Bacteria are no less evolved than we are, rather they have the sufficient amount of evolutionary adaptations required to survive in a given environment. Bacteria can survive pretty much anywhere, we can't. We can build rocket ships, they can't. One is not more evolved than the other, but we both have sufficient adaptations to thrive in our selected environment.

The same applies to caucasians and negroids. Aside from the fact that they are the same species, rendering the whole notion of "more evolved" pointless, they both have different adaptations to survive in a given environment. Caucasians have fair skin, Negroids have black skin, for one easy example. There are many other differences, showing that as they have evolved in different environments, they have developed an equal number of differences.

In short, your teacher isn't racist, just wrong.

Side: Africans are not less evolved
1 point

Thank you, that really clarifies things for me. I appreciate the input, I am now armed with the information and knowledge required to take on my professor. :)

Side: Africans are not less evolved
2 points

Tiers of evolution, in my opinion, would be described as how high a species is on a food chain in relation to the scale of where they relevantly live. On Earth, I'd say all of humanity is the most evolved species, simply because of what our adaptations have produced for us; civilization, prosperity, surplus, benevolence, etc.

With that said, Africans are not less evolved then the rest of humanity. Adaptation does lead to evolving, but it doesn't necessarily. Adaptation leads to survival and progression of the species in a given environment, the former being prime importance before the later. To be less-evolved then humanity would require you be incapable of accomplishing the things that human adaptations allow humans to accomplish.

Since Africans can accomplish the same things any other human can accomplish, they are not less evolved, or lesser then other humans. Caucasians, Asians, Aboriginals, Native Americans... they are all simply the same species as Africans, just subsets that are adapted to suit different climates, not adapted to be able to accomplish more then Africans.

And before some fool disputes me, let me stop you in your tracks. An absence of advanced African civilizations has nothing to do with the genetics of the negro subspecies. African civilizations were never prevalent because they live(d) in a freaking desert, you racist git. Portions of humanity migrated out of Africa BECAUSE Africa is a desert and is practically inhospitable! And it's the inhospitable and hostile quality of Africa that made cultural progression there slow... unfortunately, slow enough for Africans to be taken advantage of by other human races, many millennium later. The ultimate point, therefore, is that a lack of African civilization is due to their environment, and has nothing to do with genetics, because their genetics do not differentiate them from other human subspecies to the point of them being unable to accomplish what other human subspecies can accomplish.

Check, and, mate.

Side: Africans are not less evolved
1 point

Every generation of human is born with it's unique set of mutations that either thrive or die out, and it is not substantial to claim that Africa would have the least diverse genetic pool after such a time; in fact it could be a counterpoint to claim that this only makes it more likely that the population of Africa is then more evolved. This isn't true, though, because proper evolution requires a larger gene pool than what is really provided in Africa's mostly sparse hubs.

-

Honestly, how evolved some organism is isn't a very proper way to convey the notion you assume the professor was suggesting here; that being that Africans are 'lesser' in having evolved less. Consider the idyllic creature, with genes so well suited for it's habitat, it never needs to evolve. In several thousands of years, it'd remain the same; and perhaps in said time, other spin-off creatures from this superior creature are successful enough and generate other species in other locales... is it fair to compare the multitudes of spin-off species with the original organism when each has met a idyllic evolutionary point for their separate locales? No, they are unrelated in this way.

Side: Africans are not less evolved
Pharmacy(213) Disputed
1 point

I did not "assume" anything, I was asking a question; a request for information. If I were to "assume", then I would not have the need to ask the question, would I? How arrogant of you to "assume" that.

By the way, evolution does not require a "larger gene pool", large gene pools are only required for natural selection, which is only one mechanism of evolution. Mutation is the basis of evolution and and does not depend on genetic diversity in function. Genetic diversity is not even possible without genetic mutation.

In short, you are wrong and off topic, while sounding arrogant and pompous.

Side: Africans are less evolved
Akulakhan(2985) Disputed
1 point

I wasn't wrong about anything. There's noting I said that hasn't already so far been said in some other rationality or phrasing by another user on this side, yet you pick out mine to dispute because??? In saying 'proper' evolution I was speaking of natural selection. Perhaps that part was my bad, but nevertheless, you ask if Africans are 'less evolved'; ASSUMING all the while that substantiating the claim that Africans may be 'less evolved' somehow equates to racism, and that in being comparatively 'less evolved', one is less than another human.

"Those who remained in Africa saw very little evolutionary change due to the fact that there was no need for adaptation (Africans were already well suited for their environment). Is my professor a racist?"

Either you're bullshitting and trying to get someone's goat with this line, or this is the question you genuinely want answered aside from the debate's inherent question. I answered both. You accepted neither, though everyone else you agreed with had the same underlying points.

Side: Africans are not less evolved
1 point

It depends on how you want to look at it. Technically, yes. We've evolved over the years to support the lac of heat and sunlight. But, on a more popular-meaning of the term, then no. Generally, people would assume that not as evolved would make them more stupid. But, really they're not.

Side: Africans are not less evolved
1 point

I don't think your professor is necessarily a racist; just poorly educated. This would be a college professor? Not an actual post-PhD. level professor?

While his observations about Africans might be correct in terms in intelligence levels. Psychometric testing, inc. IQ testing, is subject to a number of variables which your professor probably hasn't accounted for. Much of the African population is subject to poverty and episodic famine. During fetal development, poor maternal nutrition can have an adverse effect on inter-uterine neurological development. After the baby is born, poor maternal nutrition can also impact both the quality and quantity of breast milk. And throughout childhood, nutrition continues to play an important role in neurological development. So, there are environmental factors at work which can have an adverse effect on brain development and these environmental influences are far more prevalent in Africa than they are in Western countries. If you exposed an anglo-saxon mother and child to the same carbohydrate deficient diet, you'd very likely end up with very similar neurological problems.

Another feature to be considered is the effect of childhood trauma. Much of Africa is prone of periodic civil and sectarian violence. There are a range of studies which demonstrate the effects of traumatic exposure on a young child in terms of neuroplastic development. Neuroplasticity refers to the degree of inter-connectedness between neuronal pathways in the brain. A child who is exposed to high levels of violence and trauma forms more efficient neuronal pathways for survival mechanism than they do for academic/cognitive functions. We see this also among anglo-saxon children who have been exposed to repeated sexual trauma.

One also needs to consider the quality of educational service providers in Africa. Many of these countries are relatively poor with third-world teaching facilities and third-world standard teachers. Most teachers can only be expected to teach up to the level of their own knowledge and not beyond.

Another factor related the third-world economics concerns parental or familial expectations and values. Often the children in African countries will have to go to work in a family business or elsewhere as soon as they come home from school and this could entail them working long hours. As such, there are few opportunities for these children to engage in study or complete homework activities.

Side: Africans are not less evolved
Pharmacy(213) Clarified
1 point

Yes, college professor... very interesting and informative.

Side: Africans are less evolved
1 point

Evolution would imply an improvement over time and so far all I have seen are changes over time. I would say no. I agree that there have been mutations but evolving....not so much

Side: Africans are not less evolved
1 point

Physicaly and mentaly no. But they are none the less behind. Many African nations are in civil wars and just have many issues. They did not get the same modern revolutions that we did. So they are a little behind.

Side: Africans are not less evolved