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There are very few opportunities for abortion changes any more. It is a very minor part of anything a politician would have to decide that you can pick your politicians on other criteria.
No, because there are other rights secured in the Roe V Wade decision that would make it hard to get changed in coming years, so if it is make or brake for a candidate, you should just forget about it whether you are for or against it.
Well, I would say that it is pretty much human nature for all of us to have at least an opinion on abortion. That is to say, when we think of it and of what it entails, unless you are some sort of clinical sociopath who is devoid of normal human emotions and empathy, then certain feelings come to your mind. And these feelings are, not to put too fine a point on it, either positive or negative. That is: you are--in accordance to these inherent thoughts--either what the politics and debate crowds call "Pro Life" or "Pro Choice."
And there are differing degrees on that spectrum. A pro lifer can range the gamut from being rabid and reactionary and in favor of burning down abortion clinics, like FromWithin, or they can simply want Roe v.Wade overturned.
And a Pro Choicer (which I am) can range from wanting to place restrictions and rules on abortions, to being full-on pro choice where they believe a woman should be able to get an abortion at whatever stage of pregnancy she desires. And as many times as she wants. And for not other reason except that she just does not want to be saddled with a kid.
Now then, this being said, NO--a person does not have to participate in the whole Abortion Debate. Nor do they have to exercise their right to vote on the issue. They can even be a member here or on another online debate forum and not have to weigh in their beliefs on the issue. They have every right in the world to stay quiet. In the background. And just smile and watch the Flame Wars. We used to have a little girl here who called herself Lady MinkFart who did just that. Wouldn't know an opinion if it bit her on her lesbo ass. LOL.
Oh yeah: we also had another member who called herself Lib Prolifer, but despite her name she made it very apparent with her crazily schizophrenic posts on the topic of Abortion that she had no fucking clue WHAT she really was.
LOL...are you her? Another member pointed out this idea and I admit you two DO have an awful lot in common. Apologies if I am wrong on this count.
But..Yeah, we cannot help but have an inherent, primal, gut reaction feeling on the topic of putting an unborn fetus to death, as it is a fairly significant action in human life.
The only people who "have to pick a side" on abortion are pregnant women who are considering not having their baby. Will they have one or will they not?
Yes. And if you scan the last 6 debates on this topic on this site you'll see I've already discussed this many times.
I do believe life begins at conception.
I do believe it is human life from the very beginning.
I do not buy the religious arguments that therefore it must be saved at all costs. We could do a round on that if you want.
I also don't buy that the fetus was given constitutional civil rights by the founders.
And I absolutely believe that society has many other forms of killing it has decided to accept (self defense, police action, war, capital punishment, in some places euthanasia, high risk surgeries, etc) and that abortion is one of those.
I and my wife are never going to opt for abortion. But we'll leave it to prospective mothers to make that choice themselves.
People need to think more like you. I enjoy that even though you don't share the same opinion as others, you still see it as their choice and their option and that only they should be concerned with it.
Like I said before, abortion is not a black or white issue. There are some situations that call for abortion, like if the mother's life is in danger, the mother has medical problems, the fetus has medical problems, the mother was raped, and so on.
I do have a question for you. Do you consider the fetus to be human? If yes, why would aborting the baby be an option regardless of the circumstance? If not why are fighting for it?
And like I said before, abortion should never be a grey area, nor is it. Regardless of the situation, a human life, the life of the unborn child is still at stake and ought to be considered of no less importance than the mother’s – and too often it is certainly not, especially when such an attitude begets statements such as “What is right for one person is wrong for another”.
You're right when you say that not everything is a black or white issue. However, this isn't one of those issues that has grey areas. Either you are for it or you are against. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. Based of previous posts you made, I'm just going to think you're against it
That tells me nothing. If you are going to repeat yourself you should at least expand on your previous statement as I did with mine to generate some discussion. As it is, you have not refuted me on anything I have said – this would be a good place to begin in the next response rather than throwing out empty phrases i.e. ‘close-minded’.
What is legal for one clinic is legal for another under the same jurisdiction. If abortion is illegal it affects all people whatever they believe. That is why prochoice is the superior side.
Democrats love Margret Sanger just ask Hillary Clinton. Democrats are all about eugenics.
On mandatory sterilization of the poor:
One of Sanger's greatest influences, sexologist/eugenicist Dr. Havelock Ellis (with whom she had an affair, leading to her divorce from her first husband), urged mandatory sterilization of the poor as a prerequisite to receiving any public aid.
Democrats are all about abortion yet they won't own up to it when the truth is shown.
Read this site if you are one of the many on this site who keep saying late term abortions(unless extreme cases, life of mother, etc.) are illegal.......
Many states have NO LIMITS on abortions! Every single time the GOP tries to put restrictions on abortions past 20 weeks, the Democrats almost unanimously scream and stop them. When you vote for these extreme pro abortion politicians, you are culpable and you are supporting the inhumanity. You can talk about how you only support 1st trimester abortion all you want, but when you vote for these politicians who want no federal restrictions on abortions, you are supporting all abortions at any stage.
America is one of 7 nations with the least restrictions on abortion. Democrats are even more extreme when it comes to abortion then most states in the world! If you keep electing Democrats, we will never restore the humanity our nation once stood for.
This is what pro abortion supporters do to deceive the pubic and hide the inhumanity of their policies.
1) They try to make you think only 1st. trimester abortions are legal. They steer the abortion conversation to life of mother and rape pregnancies. Talk about a red hearing yet this is the first thing these pro choice people will do. The GOP has allowed these exceptions since abortion was legalized yet we still hear every day from the talking heads in the Democrat party about these extreme rare cases. Lie, deceive, exaggerate, etc. all to condition the electorate to think the GOP wil deny these extreme case abortions.(by the way, rape pregnancies can be prevented from day after pills that prevent conception)
2) The next thing they do is talk about the medical name of an unborn Baby..... Fetus. By using the name Fetus, they somehow believe it changes the status of the life growing inside the mother. Somehow in their twisted thinking, a Baby that has not yet traveled through the birth canal is somehow different than it is after it is has moved down that canal. WOW, TALK ABOUT DENIAL!
3) Next they will talk about the pain level of an unborn Baby. These pro abortion people have no clue the exact time a Baby can feel pain yet they latch on to absurd claims by pro abortion groups. I am only aware of the one video of an abortion procedure(gee what a shock) around the 1st trimester time frame. The baby clearly moves away from the implements of his death. Saying it is ok to kill an unborn Baby because it supposedly can not feel pain? It's a laughable excuse. When they vote for those on the Left, they are supporting late term abortions where the baby most definitely feel pain. The GOP has tried a number of times to prevent abortions past 20 weeks(unless extreme cases) only to have the Democrat party stop them each time.
4) The next thing they do is talk about the supposed hard life these unwanted children will have if we allow them to live. So in all their God like powers, they know the future of every Baby aborted? How many great people have come from poverty or foster homes, etc.? To be so arrogant to allow the deaths of innocent life because of some perceived hard life is beyond diabolical. That's like the Nazi mentality where we only want blond haired blue eyed people being born in Germany. In all their arrogance, they will deem who is deservng of life. To all the special needs kids? Your lives are not as valuable to many pro abortion people.
5) The next thing some pro choice people say is that they do not personally believe in abortion, but would afford other's the choice to end the lives of their unborn Babies. Gee, how nice of them. I always wonder how a person who personally believes that aborting his own Baby is wrong because it is ending a human life, can support allowing other babies to die. HYPOCRITE PHONEY!
6) After all the scare tactics and deceptions, their next step is to lie and say they do not support late term abortions for any reason. But when you show them that the Democrat party has become so radical to even support allowing a late term Baby born alive from a botched abortion to die, they are finally silent because even they can not come up with an excuse for such inhumanity and the fact that they elect these people.
I am not here trying to judge any woman who has had an abortion. I am speaking for the millions of future lives that the Left has sacrificed, all under the notion they are burdens to society. I've heard many people (racists) who bring up the great many Black Babies that would be born were it not for abortions. WOW! I think the support of abortions quite often has racist over tones.
There can be no excuse for taking an innocent life other than rare extreme cases. Our culture is dieing from such little respect for innocent human life. There are absolutely millions of parents waiting to adopt these unwanted babies.
Why does life start at conception? And don't just use 'common sense' because I honestly don't understand why. It seems like as arbitrary a point to pick as birth.
At conception, that baby has everything it will ever need to grow to adulthood like all of us. We are ALL changing every single day of our lives. Our bodies are constantly under growth and change as we get older.
People like you want to be able to kill certain people at early ages. You can do this because these innocent lives have no voice to scream out on their right to life.
Idiots on the Left sooner listen to transgender people screming out how they deserve to force every public school to change their bathroom policies, but an innocent unborn life can't scream out and CAN NOT VOTE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So to clarify your position, the only thing that makes a person a person is if they have 'everything it will ever need to grow to adulthood,' provided it is given appropriate nutrients, food/water, etc.?
You are wasting everyone's time! What fool does not know that the human body grows and constantly changes from the time of conception? It is a human life to any thinking person.
Fools will do what the slave traders and the nazi's did. They come up with ludicrous arguments to deny the undeniable. Every innocent human life deserves to be protected!
Even if a person is such an idiot to try and deny the start of life, they all admit they don't know the exact day a Baby becomes a human life in their sick selfish world. So if they don't know, they should ALWAYS SIDE WITH LIFE and make sure no innocent human life is ever killed.
The Democrat party supports NO RESTRICTION ABORTIONS. They are selfish corrupt inhuman fools!
What fool does not know that the human body grows and constantly changes from the time of conception? It is a human life to any thinking person.
Clearly not.
And if it is, are women who miscarry murderers? Should they at the very least be charged with manslaughter?
Fools will do what the slave traders and the nazi's did. They come up with ludicrous arguments to deny the undeniable. Every innocent human life deserves to be protected!
What do you think the ulterior motive of these evil democrats?
Even if a person is such an idiot to try and deny the start of life, they all admit they don't know the exact day a Baby becomes a human life in their sick selfish world.
THAT'S TRUE. IT'S COMPLICATED. THEY DON'T KNOW THE EXACT DAY A BABY BECOMES A HUMAN LIFE BECAUSE THERE ISN'T A SCIENTIFIC DEFINITION FOR IT.
The Democrat party supports NO RESTRICTION ABORTIONS. They are selfish corrupt inhuman fools!
They actually don't. The most extreme they can get with their vote is supporting access to late term abortions. Many democrats, in fact, are against abortion but believe that the choice should be available. But your argument that because someone supports any Democrat they must support no restriction abortions is just idiotic.
IT IS IDIOTIC TO DENY SUPPORTING NO REXTRICTION ABORTIONS WHEN THE ONE YOU VOTE FOR SUPPORTS IT SUCH AS HILLARY, OBAMA and most every single Democrat Senator, Congressmen.
You are living in denial and I would ban you if i could. I'm sick of such pathetic denial!
What fool does not know that the human body grows and constantly changes from the time of conception? It is a human life to any thinking person.
Clearly not.
And if it is, are women who miscarry murderers? Should they at the very least be charged with manslaughter?
Fools will do what the slave traders and the nazi's did. They come up with ludicrous arguments to deny the undeniable. Every innocent human life deserves to be protected!
What do you think the ulterior motive of these evil democrats?
Even if a person is such an idiot to try and deny the start of life, they all admit they don't know the exact day a Baby becomes a human life in their sick selfish world.
THAT'S TRUE. IT'S COMPLICATED. THEY DON'T KNOW THE EXACT DAY A BABY BECOMES A HUMAN LIFE BECAUSE THERE ISN'T A SCIENTIFIC DEFINITION FOR IT.
Since these selfish inhuman idiots admit they don't know when an unborn baby magically turns into a human life(what hideous fools you are), they should side with LIFE so as to make sure they never kill an innocent human being!
So what does the Democrat party support? NO RESTRICTION ABORTIONS FOR ANY REASON UP TO BIRTH!
So I guess for fool deniers like yourself, when does that unborn baby become a human life? Does it happen halfway down the birth canal? Does it happen when it's head comes out of the mother?
Does it happen when the Baby's feet come out of the mother first during a breech birth? NO, wait a minute, Democrats supported partial birth abortions, whereby they delivered the baby feet first but still sucked the Baby's brains out before the Baby's head came out of the mother.
Do you even have any idea how morally dead you have become? So tell me, when do you say the Baby becomes a human life?
If you keep asking the question "when does a person become a person" you will be disappointed, because there simply isn't an answer. There is no physical evidence for souls, or spirits, or anything of the sort. If you think we must protect something because it possesses some unsubstantiated concept of being a 'human,' there really isn't a way to ever define your terms. It's not that scientists don't know, it's that there isn't any answer.
If there is no answer for fools when the baby is a human life? Then you should be siding with life and not allowing abortions past 1st trimester, but you inhuman people still vote for these extreme pro abortion Democrats who support no restriction abortion when even fools know it is human life.
You are all total phonies lacking the least amount of compassion, denying the undeniable.
If there is no answer for fools when the baby is a human life? Then you should be siding with life and not allowing abortions past 1st trimester
But, why first trimester and not second? Or why not earlier? Seriously, there is no definition for it. There isn't a scientific difference between a human life when it's sperm and egg or post conception or post birth or post death. If we unequivocally say that anything along the entire spectrum is completely equal, we run into a lot of problems.
You say that it would be way more ok if I supported abortions only during the first trimester.
But again, why first trimester and not second? Or why not earlier? Seriously, there is no definition for it. There isn't a scientific difference between a human life when it's sperm and egg or post conception or post birth or post death. If we unequivocally say that anything along the entire spectrum is completely equal, we run into a lot of problems.
The babies could be considered living, but I think there is a difference between a living one week old fetus and a living 12 year old teen. Sperm could be considered alive too. You are equating all stages of life, but th decision of picking a starting point at conception, or 1 trimester, or 20 weeks, or birth; it's all completely arbitrary. And I have no problem with putting women's reproduction in the hands of the women doing the reproducing.
Talking about the Holocaust rather than responding to me is actually deceptive. As is saying "HOGWASH" rather than respond to me.
You know, I am open to discussion on this topic. As I have laid out here, I think the issue is incredibly complicated. You are so ingrained in your views you've forgotten about any complexity that goes into them.
Why is Plan B ok if it happens before the zygote is attached to the uterine wall? Why would 1st trimester abortions be ok and laters wouldn't? You might have clear answers to these, but people all across the world have different answers. Do you really think there is no complexity?
NONE! Life of mother is about the ONLY POSSIBLE REASON to kill an innocent life because in that one case, there must be a choice between two lives. It's a sickening hard decision for the mother and father I'm sure.
Thankfully with modern medicine it is a very very rare thing. All other abortions unless the baby can't survive should be outlawed!
Thanks to the extremist Democrat party, those special needs children such as down syndrome are not protected.
THEN WHY ARE YOU OK WITH PLAN B? Why are you even ok with condoms? They stop innocent life from growing, why isn't that murder? That could have been a child if the couple hadn't chose to end the life of everything that could have come from that sexual encounter.
I would disagree with fromwithin's description of human. I would say that anyone that has a genetically unique DNA signature would be considered human. This is one reason why theists consider babies human, even at conception
This debate is though. While it is true that each organism does have its own DNA signature, that doesn't automatically make it human. However, it seems like you're using that definition to refer to the organisms in general. If I'm wrong, feel free to let me know. I was using it to refer to each individual organism.
Do you also consider seeds or nuts a tree? Think about it for a second.
Sperm are also living organisms, are you appalled by the fact that billions die every time someone has an orgasm? What about when a woman has her period? That couldv'e been a child but her body is "throwing it out".
Where is the outrage? Or are you just selective about certain aspects of conception?
there are MANY months leading up to the development of the brain and nerve endings for the fetus to even feel pain. pigs have the intelligence of a 3 year old and people kill them everyday without thinking about it. the only thing stopping this argument is religion and the argument of the "soul".
