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Debate Info

9
3
Pro-Choice Pro-Life
Debate Score:12
Arguments:11
Total Votes:12
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 Pro-Choice (7)
 
 Pro-Life (2)

Debate Creator

CutMe(109) pic



Abortion Is Legal and Should Stay Legal...?

Pro-Life: "I know what's better for you and I want control."

 

Pro-Choice: "I know what's good for me." or "I don't know what's good for you."

 

Just my interpretation of both sides...

 

In my opionion, abortion should remain legal.  Especially since I'm female, I'm the one who carries the babies.  In the case of rape, I might abort, but that's my choice.  I don't want people taking over my body.  I think it's perfectly fine if you don't wait too long.  If you abort soon after, the fetus won't feel anything.  It's barely formed yet so how could it?  Even if I was sure I wouldn't abort, I wouldn't go around trying to make everyone else keep their babies.  Sometimes it's necessary.  A necassary evil.  If it threatens the life of the mother (or 10 year old child) it is her choice.  If a married couple has a baby, the father should have a voive in it but he must think about the mother as well.  It's just wrong to say a fetus is more important than the mother in any case...

Pro-Choice

Side Score: 9
VS.

Pro-Life

Side Score: 3
2 points

I am pro choice with ONE caveat. If the father does not want the baby, then the mother has to either abort or support the child on her own. The woman must be made EQUALLY responsible for the pregnancy (except in the case of rape and incest).

Currently, the woman has no responsibility for the pregnancy. She can either have an abortion, against the father's wishes, OR she can force him to pay 18 years of child support. She's in the driver's seat. She makes ALL of the decisions. Including the decision to have unprotected sex.

Side: Pro-Choice
1 point

I agree. It's not right to make the father pay for a baby he thought he wasn't getting.

Side: Pro-Choice

If someone is a strict constructionist who interprets the Constitution word for word, the sanction for abortion is given under the Fourteenth Amendment.

The Fourteenth Amendment of our U.S. Constitution defines a citizen “a citizen” at birth. If a woman is carrying a fetus in the womb, the U.S. Constitution does not designate the fetus as “a citizen.” It would take an amendment to the U.S. Constitution to declare a fetus a citizen. You have to be born in order to be recognized as a citizen. Therefore, a woman does have the right to choose. A fetus inside the womb is not designated as a citizen according to the U.S. Constitution so by default is not entitled to life, liberty, or prosperity. You have to be born in order to be endowed with those privileges. To conclude, neither the Federal government nor any of the States can deny a woman the right to choose.

If abortion is murder, abortion would have been terminated years ago due to the cruel and unusual punishment clause under the Eighth Amendment. Again, proof that a fetus is not recognized as a citizen of the United States of America.

Side: Pro-Choice
1 point

To be clear from the offset: I do not identify as "pro-choice". I support legalized abortion. I think the development of the "pro-choice" and "pro-life" language was a strategic innovation that has more to do with asserting moral superiority than it does with actually having productive conversation or resolving the issue. That said...

The disagreement is fundamentally one of designation; where do we determine that human life actually starts? The tricky thing is that there truly is no objective, absolute answer. I arrive at my own conclusion differently than most people, but more on that in a bit.

Most anti-abortionists designate the start of human life at conception or very shortly thereafter. They view the fetus as a living human being and believe it should have the same rights as any other living human being. To them, abortion is taking the life of a human being, at best to save someone else (which would be ethically dubious to most people in other circumstances) and at worst to avoid an inconvenience. To them the decision is clear: the life of another person who is at no personal fault cannot be sacrificed to save someone else.

Most pro-abortionists designate the start of human life sometime after conception, though notably most still place it before birth. The designation tends to be made around the time when the fetus would be considered viable and/or capable of feeling pain; pro-abortionists and anti-abortionists are actually somewhat similar here in that at some point in the pregnancy both generally think that it is wrong to hurt the fetus/baby to benefit or prevent harm to the pregnant party. However, for pro-abortionists because life does not start at conception there is no conflicting rights issue with earlier term abortions. It is not wrong for the pregnant party to place their concerns for personal safety, financial security, career prospects, or anything else over the non-existent interests of the fetus.

Personally, I am a pro-abortionist but also understand the matter in terms of social and evolutionary practicalities. Abortion is as hold as humanity itself and not unique to our species. It has and still does perform multiple positive functions for us as a social species, predominantly with regards to social and familial matters.

Tangentially... I find it interesting that while most anti-abortionists think that the fetus is a living human from the moment of conception most do not appear to advocate the death penalty or even life in prison for people who get abortions. Most are opposed to legalized abortions but very few seem to have any strong or coherent views on what the punishment should be for a person who seeks or receives an illegal abortion. Arguably, that indicates even they do not view the fetus as equitably alive and human (unless they categorically oppose those punishments and also have barely formed views on punishment for murder in general, which is statistically quite unlikely).

Side: Pro-Choice
1 point

Really? I always thought the main reason someone is called "Pro-Choice" is because of abortion.

Side: Pro-Choice
Jace(5222) Clarified
2 points

You are not incorrect. Both "pro-choice" and "pro-life" refer to the abortion issue. My problem with these terms is that they create an imbalanced moral ground that is more focused on demonizing the other side than trying to actually understand them or come to an agreement. The assertion is not just that someone who disagrees is wrong because of their stance, but that they are wrong because they are a bad person who either does not care about liberty or life. By saying that one is "pro-choice" the implication is that anyone who disagrees is "anti-choice" (and the same for "pro-life" implying "anti-life"). In reality, anti-abortionists are not opposed to abortion because they hate choice and pro-abortionists do not support abortion because they hate life.

These terms were introduced with the intent to prevent productive discussion and to keep people from seeing each other as people. This keeps the issue polarized and resistant to a solution, which is in the interest of both political parties who rely upon clear hot button issues to get the vote out. It is much easier to convince people that they have to act on the issue of abortion and in elections if they believe there is a moral threat to the nation. An actual moral threat does not exist, which is why they have had to invent one. Other powerful institutions benefit from this setup as well - the media, religious groups, etc. - which helps keep the false idea alive.

I am not sure if this clarifies what I meant, but feel free to let me know if not.

Side: Pro-Choice
2 points

Abortion should be legal... Also there is a right to a woman to take her section. To become a mother or not.. Also there is a possibility the lady does not want. To be a mother this particular time.. She need for time for this baby. She and her husband is not prepared for a baby right now may be for their financial condition or maybe she has a life risk . so I think abortion should be legal

Side: Pro-Life
stevetc(65) Clarified
1 point

This argument was posted under the wrong side of the board. It doesn't belong under pro-life. Not sure if that can be fixed or not.

Side: Pro-Choice
1 point

OP -

Pro-Life: "I know what's better for you and I want control."

Pro-Choice: "I know what's good for me." or "I don't know what's good for you."

----------------------------------------------------

I know this is not the position of pro-life, and I suspect that your posted position for pro-choice is not that accurate either.

Here's the thing. We didn't used to have the firm science. The science is in. Human persons are created at conception. Period. There is no contest to this. Pro-life stance is much better stated that all human beings once conceived have the right to complete their lives. To be nurtured through pregancy, through infancy, through childhood, through adolescence and up to adulthood by either their parents, or another responsible set of parents (via adoption), so that they are not deprived of their right to personhood. Their right to flourish, and their right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Our morally sickened culture has determined, that this only applies to human persons at (?) weeks/months old (can't a a straight concensus from pro-lifers, but even if you could it wouldn't make any sense, since it is a human person with a right to life from the moment of conception). To intentionally take a human life while it is surrounded by placenta is called "abortion", or worse yet "women's health care"(?). The moment that the baby is delivered, then killing it intentionally is called murder, and is a felony punishable by imprisonment or even death. So in the space of a few inches and a couple seconds we go from a "choice", and an abortion to a murder. It doesn't follow any sort of logic. Anyway, the prolife position isn't about "we know what's best for you and we want control". It is simply an acknowledgement of the importance and dignity of human life, and that every life has a right to be once brought into being. It is the essence of civil rights. It is fundamental. Not sure how it ever got lost, especially in the USA, where we are founded on these principles. We don't wish to "control" anyone. We wish civil rights for human persons of every age group. Especially the tiniest among us, who can not speak for themselves. Their rights must be looked after. An adult person already has a right to abstain from sexual activity if they don't like the potential bilogical result. They don't deserve additional rights for bad decision making.

Side: Pro-Life
Cartman(18192) Disputed
1 point

I know this is not the position of pro-life

So, why then is that the exact argument you make?

Side: Pro-Choice
CutMe(109) Disputed
1 point

"We didn't used to have the firm science. The science is in. Human persons are created at conception. Period. "

If that were true, I think everyone would be on your side /maybe/.

"Pro-life stance is much better stated that all human beings once conceived have the right to complete their lives."

But think of the rape-victims! They have the right as well. Two wrongs don't make a right on both sides.

"The moment that the baby is delivered, then killing it intentionally is called murder, and is a felony punishable by imprisonment or even death. So in the space of a few inches and a couple seconds we go from a "choice", and an abortion to a murder. It doesn't follow any sort of logic."

But abortion isn't killing an already born human...

" We don't wish to "control" anyone. We wish civil rights for human persons of every age group."

Me too. But when you force a kid to have another kid, that's control.

"An adult person already has a right to abstain from sexual activity if they don't like the potential bilogical result. They don't deserve additional rights for bad decision making."

I kind of agree. But I would feel a lot better about being on your side if people would adopt all the other American children that are struggling. (+ rape victims)

Side: Pro-Choice